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Waterboarding: The psychological damage is indescribable

timesonline.co.uk — Christopher Hitchens lasted seconds under waterboarding. And they say it isn’t torture

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  • wjappe, on 11/01/2008, -1/+45I wonder how long Bush would last?
  • Bastet62, on 11/02/2008, -0/+34Waterboarding is a CRIME. It is torture. The U.S. condemned Japanese 'enemies' for practicing it after WWII.
  • thepoliticalcat, on 11/01/2008, -0/+34This is Bush's legacy. Our consciences -- will they ever be clean again? Who was tortured? How many? How long? Will their torturers ever be brought to justice?
  • kazz67, on 11/01/2008, -0/+33FTA:
    'This document stated revealingly: “ ‘Waterboarding’ is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.”

    As the agreement went on to say, there would be safeguards provided “during the ‘waterboarding’ process; however, these measures may fail and even if they work properly they may not prevent Hitchens from experiencing serious injury or death”. '

    Correct me if I'm wrong but, given what's written above, isn't water-boarding, according to BushCo's own standards, torture? Therefore when he uses his own standards, isn't Bush lying when he says America doesn't torture?
  • p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 11/02/2008, -0/+26I have a great deal of respect for Christopher's intellect. His willingness to undergo this torture to expose this was immensely courageous.

    I found the video painful to watch.

    If water boarding is not torture, then nothing is torture.
    If torture is not immoral, then nothing is immoral... and our humanity is lost.

    FTA
    "He found it terrifying. “I was strapped to a pallet and laid at an angle with a cloth placed over my mouth,” he said. “My arms and legs were tied, and we had agreed a signal that when it became too much, I would bang my arms on my legs. You start to breathe in and out, but when the water fills everywhere up, it just hits you. I realised that it really is a form of torture that shouldn’t be used. I only lasted five to 10 seconds, and the sound of my voice crying out to stop isn’t me acting. The psychological damage of doing that to someone for even a minute would be indescribable.”

    I hope this post makes it to the front page. This dark door of torture that America has opened needs to be shut on DAY ONE OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

    MSM: I hope one of you has the courage to air this video on American TV. America needs to see how far we have fallen... and how far back up we must rise.
  • p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 11/02/2008, -0/+19Mr brother in law went thru SERE training before shipping out to Iraq.

    I freely admit I will never fully understand the nature of SERE (and other programs like it). But I will never forget my telling my brother in law, the day after he 'graduated' from SERE, how horrible it was to hear of Americans torturing fellow American soldiers. I will NEVER fully understand that (but I can appreciate how tough that can be on all involved.)

    While I do not approve of this tactic, it did leave me with a profound respect for what our soldiers suffer for our nation. And I told him that... and how proud I was of him as he described all of the soldiers emotions during the flag ceremony following 'graduation.'

    He since died in Iraq on a recon mission.

    I mean no direspect: but I hate this war.
  • JenniferInMO, on 11/02/2008, -1/+18Our country uses torture because we allow it. We have known of its existence for quite some time, yet there has been no public outcry. I am afraid that 9-11 and the program of constant fear and hate mongering has taken a piece of our humanity. We make moral judgments on other countries every day, yet we allow our government to torture on a regular basis.

    Al Qaida is trained to claim they had been tortured by Americans after being released even if they hadn't been.

    FTA:
    "Did we notice what a frontier we had crossed when we admitted and even proclaimed that their stories might, in fact, be true? I had only a very slight encounter on that frontier, but I still wish that my experience were the only way in which the words “waterboard” and “American” could be mentioned in the same (gasping and sobbing) breath."

  • thepoliticalcat, on 11/01/2008, -0/+17That pathetic coward? He'd piss his pants at the THOUGHT.
  • inactive, on 11/02/2008, -0/+16He was a brave and valiant Yale Cheerleader.....
  • algaeturd, on 11/02/2008, -1/+13The people who really need to read this are the raging right wing fundamentalists who think that abortion is murder but torture is good. The hypocrisy in this country that comes from the fundies is exceptionally embarrassing.
  • JenniferInMO, on 11/02/2008, -0/+11I am so sorry for your loss.
  • JenniferInMO, on 11/02/2008, -0/+10Let's ask Cheney to give it a shot.
  • allowners, on 11/02/2008, -0/+10What about Cheney, Yoo, Addington, and Rove, not necessarily in that order, and not necessarily exhaustive.
  • greenfyre, on 11/02/2008, -1/+9I thought this 2 yr old peace was excellent. The author decided to ask a Vet who had been tortured in many ways in WW II what he thought http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_mallick/200611 ...
  • Catspaw, on 11/02/2008, -0/+8An important article, but its content is part of the problem, not the solution. Like many articles in the mainstream media, it erroneously claims that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11, even though the FBI has admitted there is NO hard evidence linking him to the attacks. Refer: http://www.twf.org/News/Y2006/0608-BinLaden.html
    There is however plenty of evidence linking the Bush Admin to 9/11, including that VP Dick Cheney told the air defence to stand down that day. Refer: http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260607_mineta. ...
    If journalists can not be honest about this matter, then the unjustified persecution of the people of the Middle East is bound to continue.
  • motters, on 11/02/2008, -1/+8He's certainly a brave guy to do this in the name of journalism. The purpose of torture is to destroy someone psychologically before they're destroyed physically, so I don't doubt that victims could suffer post traumatic stress symptoms for many years afterwards.
  • inactive, on 11/03/2008, -0/+6@poprocks, Bush certainly didn't have the balls to fly airplanes in Vietnam, in fact he had to pull big strings to get a waver from having to go into active duty and go to 'Nam. The man is a coward.

    Did you ever read Vicente Fox's interview when he talks about the Bush visit to Fox's ranch in Mexico? He has a REAL ranch, you know, with cattle and horses. He took Bush to see his horses and asked if he would like to ride, but Bush showed such fear of the horses that Fox had to laugh at him.

    The man is a pussy
  • wjappe, on 11/02/2008, -0/+6Maybe so but I wish he would listen to the people and obey his pledge to the Constitution. He may be our leader but he's supposed to work for our best interest and not his (I think) obsession. Not to mention doing the other things that are undermining this country.
  • roosevans, on 11/03/2008, -0/+5 Catspaw, thanks for the Bin Ladin and Cheney links! Both were very eye opening!
  • JenniferInMO, on 11/02/2008, -0/+5Our military has is who we need on the ground and our guys are the best and the most courageous in the world. A good President doesn't have to fly into a war zone to prove anything. I would rather my President have extraordinary brains than bravado.
  • Wintergreen0803, on 11/03/2008, -0/+4Saw this on "Newsnight" a few months back and was surprised to hear someone like Hitchens admit that waterboarding IS torture. Perhaps more conservatives need to give it a whirl and see how much fun it is.
  • Bastet62, on 11/03/2008, -0/+4The exercises at SERE are meant to train soldiers to resist torture by enemies, NOT to teach them to do it to prisoners and civilians- of course that goal has been completely subverted by the new Bush ideology.
  • NeoBanned, on 11/02/2008, -1/+4@poprocks

    I can honestly say that I wouldn't give you a hot glass of piss if you were dying of thirst.
  • Induane, on 11/04/2008, -0/+3Actually you are wrong on several counts.

    1.) I know you didn't say otherwise, but waterboarding IS torture. McCain has said so himself, being the POW candidate I'd think his opinion should carry more weight than some others in the Bush Administration or really that of anyone who hasn't been tortured.
    2.) It can cause physical damage. Its not really simulated drowning, its real drowning with the intent to stop before harm comes. The air passages do become clogged with water and it can in fact enter the lungs. A few people have died from waterboarding in the early days of the Afghanistan invasion so any statement that it doesn't cause harm is fallacious.
    3.) There is a problem with torturing people that has nothing to do with anything else and that is that America is better than that. If we want to condem evil actions of others then committing them ourself causes us to lose our moral high ground. If your parents smoked and then told you smoking was bad and not to do it it would then seem hypocritical. This is similar but more severe. To expect something of others the power of the example our country can set is our great strength.
  • Bastet62, on 11/03/2008, -1/+4Being beheaded is certainly much quicker and much more painless than being tortured. HMMM I wonder what would make a nutcase jihadi want to behead even more Americans, let me think.... could it be that people they know have been tortured, like people in their own family - and these guys believe in eye for an eye?

    To adopt torture as policy endangers your own people for like treatment - support the troops? How is that supporting the troops by putting them in more danger? Torture is not a method whereby you gain good intelligence - the only thing torture is used for is to gain false confessions and to terrorize populations. When the U.S. decided to torture they then became terrorists too - when you act like a terrorist you become one.
  • le0pardess, on 11/04/2008, -0/+3dugg #193
  • wjappe, on 11/06/2008, -0/+2 I grieve for your loss also.
  • CoolHandLuke70, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2and they were using gin instead of water for Hitchens.
  • vincebodie, on 11/03/2008, -1/+3Dugg #181

    I wonder how long not only Bush would last, but all of the other traitors like Cheney, Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld, Obama, Biden, McCain, etc., etc...

    Can we get a group discount?

    Getting FED up with corporate controlled media and websites? Put the media into the hands of The People for a change:
    http://pyrabang.com/go/vince
  • wjappe, on 11/05/2008, -0/+2Our country allows it because the government allows it and I can no more control the government than I can control the weather (for all practical purposes). So for one I do not allow it but I have no practical way of stopping it.
  • Observant1, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1ordering fighter jets that can do near mach 2 to fly at 350 nauts, isnt much above their stall speed. Cheney was probably busy with his remote controlled airplanes ticked off at any interruptions. he should never have been handed power over NORAD as part of the executive branch that he denied being part of regarding accountability.
  • AWBoy666, on 11/04/2008, -2/+1I'd rather have thousands of radicals tortured and executed before one American citizen spills blood. The American government is there to serve its citizens, not its enemies.

    Considering the extremely restricted use of waterboarding and the lack of any physical damage, I'm 100% in favor of it.
  • dilpil1, on 11/02/2008, -5/+1Gee sounds like an article I read on digg 6 months ago, and 6 months before that, and 6 months before that too.
  • inactive, on 11/02/2008, -7/+3I wonder what the psychological effects of being beheaded by the Jihad are.
  • poprocksandsoda, on 11/02/2008, -7/+1Bush flew Air Force One into Baghdad at the height of the war. If you haven't been paying attention the man has balls. Say what you want, but he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes in.
  • poprocksandsoda, on 11/02/2008, -9/+2I think waterboarding is horrendous. I just wish they'd shot these guys to death in the field and saved tax payer money to feed them, fly them to Cuba and to get them proper defense. That would have also saved us the shame of seeing the ACLUites around the world decry mistreatment of the Taliban and Al Quaeda.
  • IMJGaltstill, on 11/02/2008, -19/+2Every member of the US military that goes through SERE training has been waterboarded. Christopher Hitchens is a bitch and should stfu.

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