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143 Comments
- trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+134I don't blame pop culture for VT, I blame pop culture for making people idiots.
- GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+66Dr Phil trained in the study of Moronology -- sound as earnest and convincing as you can, act to know what you're talking about, and count the number of morons who believe any of the hot, steamy ***** you spew out of your mouth.
- KuntaKinte, on 10/12/2007, -2/+41well, dr phil thinks otherwise, and dr is has dr before his name, so he is always right
- randovaro, on 10/12/2007, -8/+46I blame schoolyard bullying. Schoolyard bullying needs to be eradicated from our society like smallpox.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36Laughing at the description of bullies as successful. Most of the bullies I knew in school are now largely irrelevant welfare bums who spend all their time getting drunk and feeling nostalgic over the time where some people would be scared of them rather than feel pity.
The largest problem with bullying is schools don't allow you to take action against the bully. That's where Liberalism has got it wrong. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35 Its quite telling how the media never discusses this guy's indoctrination. He is a Christian who made remarks about Jesus, his own martyrism and sinners in his videos.
The man was also on anti-depressants.
Funny how the media never picked any of that up.
Also, never has the U.S. Media labeled this a "Terrorist" act, which is exaclty what it was. - TheLoneWolf071, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24The problem is, and maybe I'm just cynical, you can't profile people like this. IF you did, People like me would be in that profile, and I can tell you, I'm far from going to kill anyone. All people ever do is use cases like the VT shooting and columbine to further their Propaganda that will allow them to gain control, and fame, over our habits.
- roosterjm2k2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25To blame pop culture is not only wrong and misguided, its insulting to everyone who lost someone there.
Its saying, yeah we know who shot your family all up, but hey, its not really his fault...i mean, its the world's fault. You're taking blame and responsibility off of the person it belongs on.
And look at who are the people that are making these statements in the first place...Jack Thompson and his ilk...they're almost always lawyers who make these claims and get the public to believe them, then represent the families in court and make a good bit of cash in the process... - washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@dildooreilly
Most non-Americans can't handle the truth:
We don't really care about Anne Nicole Smith's baby or corpse. We don't all watch Jerry Springer. Just because those shows exist doesn't mean we all watch them. We do know what's really going on in the world.
What do non-Americans really know:
- The anti-American yellow journalism spread by their media sources that only show stupid Americans on TV and the latest body count in Iraq
- About as much as your average American
Yes, democracy. Every society stumbles. It's how we pick ourselves back up that shows who we are. - TimDigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Here's a point often missed....
Everyone was teased growing up....even I was bullied because I'm have huge feet
BUT!!!!!!! There were a few people who were tormented, people didn't just makes jokes about them, but actually got enjoyment and personal satisfaction out of seeing said person suffer, I remember this one guy Micheal, he was the one in our school who people actually enjoyed making fun of him and got personal satisfaction out of it...what made his situation even worse....his mother worked at the school
think "Sheila Broflovski" soo annoying that most of the teaches hated her, she got kids in trouble,
....so not only would kids tease him but staff and authority felt no sympathy for him when he was teased....truly a horrifying situation
So the "teasing is a part of growing up and builds character" idea doesn't work with people that were being systematically destroyed each day - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+30Most Americans can't handle the truth:
Average of 2 VT killings a week in Iraq to date. Not to mention the fact that roughly 42,000 people are killed on America's roads a year. Thats 1313 VT killings a year on our highways, not to mention the maimed or severly injured.
But what do AMericans really know?
Everything there is to know about:
Anna Nicole's corpse
Alec Baldwin's phone messages
Hillary's fake country accent
Duke Lacrosse rape
ACLU courting Pedophiles
Redneck Skanks missing in Aruba
White Suburban Runaway Brides
Shark and Alligator attacks in Florida
Chinese Pandas
McDonald's courting designers for hipper uniforms
"Democracy"?!
Democracy my ass! Between fundies, fake cable news and Diebold, America never stood a chance. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Dr. Phil is proof Americans are retarded.
I mean comon, buying a "diet" book from a man who he himself weighs over 300lbs?!
R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D! - MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14@timdigg
He means that kids get expelled if they fight back. There is no "innocent by reason of self defense" in school. The bully in my school back in the day got his ass kicked once and didn't bully anyone any more. Now, you have to shut up and let them do their thing. - SanTe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"I don't blame pop culture for VT, I blame pop culture for making people idiots."
No. People are idiots. Therefore, there is pop culture.
That's a twist on Bill Hicks' explanation of the existance of pornography, but the sentiment is the same. - BrainInAJar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Occasionally any chaotic system ( like human social interaction ) just goes crazy haywire, given the right starting conditions...
Sometimes a storm turns in to a hurricane... sometimes a man goes crazy...
It sucks, and I'm not downplaying the tragedy at all, but it's by no means a predictable occurance in any social circumstances, it's just the right combination of a whole ton of factors, and nothing's to say that it wouldn't occur even if we were a big group of luddites - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Was your post an attempt at demonstration or irony? It's definitely one or the other.
- CoolWind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Bullies aren't special, They're generally not even the toughest guys around, they're just mean. Send them to jail where they belong. Cho was bullied and abused and he wanted to get even. That's just human nature and it's the reason there are cycles of abuse within families. It's too bad he cracked.
Millions of people have taken anti-depressants, so I wouldn't try to put the blame there. - stev31h, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@trghpy
This is not directed to you, but to everyone who refers to the events as solely "Virginia Tech"
For example, you said "I don't blame pop culture for VT"
VT is also a school where 28,000 students still attend, where college sports still take place, research goes on, etc. Me and the rest of the Hokie community would appreciate our schools name not be ruined by one man, it would be in everyones best interest to still recognize the school itself for all the positives, not the shooting. I am not trying to nitpick, but school spirit here is at an all-time high and we are trying to move on from the shooting, we don't want to be remembered just as the school where a lunatic went on a rampage. Thanks. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Why try and blame it on anything? There is no excuse for what he did. Being bullied/ playing video games/ listening to music does not lead to going out and killing 32 people.
- Homet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I hate Dr. Phil. He really is a disgrace.
- radio1mike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8True. True. True.
I find it perplexing on all the anti-depressant TV ads, they mention that it may actually prevalence of suicidal thoughts. You pick the wrong depressed kid to put on meds who is just disenfranchised enough to decide not only to take out himself, but others around him.
But no mention. No APA or AMA public calls for reviews on SSRIs or other drugs... Why? Because they are in the back pocket of the pharmas. - Mtdewrulz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9People should stop playing those damn violent video games and go back to watching good old wholesome non-violent cartoons like Bugs Bunny and Tom and Jerry...
...oh, wait... - TimDigg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@GMorgan
"That's where Liberalism has got it wrong."
Explain this comment... Aren't the conservatives the ones who would be inclined to say "Get over it" or "who care a little bit of teasing...big deal" basically understate the severity of the problem and pretend it doesn't exist - Maluka, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I've read all the comments and no one has mentioned he was obsessed with the song "Shine" by Collective Soul. He even had the lyrics written on his wall. No, I'm not blaming the band, I just find it curious he'd listen to that particular song over and over and over. Pop culture is not to blame. Period. Nor are the anti-depressants he was on. And yes, Dr. Phil is a wanker.
- xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What about the next shooting? So long as we let red herring's be blamed for shootings we'll never have the tools as a society to help the sick people who commit these atrocities. If you wish to remain ignorant on the issue you become part of the problem.
- MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"So. Let's knee jerk react and go back to those talking heads and throw this at them and see if they will attack a corner stone of American culture so readily as they have video games and music"
Do you really believe that no one has blamed this on guns yet? Seriously? - 1jaxstate1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Loneliness and mental illness is what cause the VT incident.
- AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8A university campus is a freaking city. You don't evacuate or lock down a city when two people get killed in what appears to be an isolated incident.
- AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Because lots of people take the drugs and almost none of them do anything, but people don't find "his drugs made him do it" becasue everyone takes drugs of one kind or another at some point. However, if you blame games, (even though a similarly small percentage do anything like this) you have a target people can get behind because they are distanced from it as non-gamers.
- xDibblerx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7The story was nice until I read this sentence: "Let’s start with video games, the scourge of the right wing politicians who see them as damaging to kids and ruining families.".
Ok, I don't really know any "right-wing" groups that want video games banned. I think the left is where Tipper Gore, Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman are at. They are the ones who have been pushing for tighter control of dangerous things like music and video games. Name some right-wingers who have lead the video game fight and I'll shut up but writing an article and telling me that Hillary is in my camp just makes the whole article just as stupid and biased as Dr. Phil and Jack Thompson. - jebudas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If pop culture was less violent, this sick person's plays and writings would have stood out more and received more attention, and maybe someone would have realized he needed to be institutionalized.
- DavePee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I can see your point of view but I think this is another point at which British culture and American culture diverge. In the UK left wing means liberal and most politicians on that side want people t be allowed to do what they want, including leagalising drugs etc. I completely take your point that in the US however it's some left wingers such as Hillary Clinton who are most against people's right to choose, and want tougher regulation.
- DavePee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There's always someone to blame other than the killer. Clutching at straws anyone?
- 40hands, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5So now John McCain is a liberal?
- tkstock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"You have to have a pretty disturbed individual in the first place."
Agreed, but how many times has the desensitization of our culture resulted in those disturbed individuals being able to act out their agression because they have become desensitized to violence?
If you have a statistically normal population (psychologically) and a certain percentage of the of the edge of the curve are the "crazy ones" who act out their agression as violent acts, then by desensitizing our society to violence you are essentially shifting the curve, potentially increasing the percentage of people that would act on their agressions. - washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7@dildooreilly
You again?
You're proof that the retards aren't only limited to American. How can one man be proof that an entire nation is retarded?
You fail. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Any chaotic system can go crazy for no reason whatsoever. That's why we create things like Constitutions, to dampen the chaotic system.
- pineandpalm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The problem is: these video games, the content currently in the movie theatre, and the content on TV--are only there because our society demands it. The entertainment industries don't create this crap to lose money. There are enough people out there watching and looking at this mindless stuff to justify it being made in mass production. It's pathetic when you think about it. Unfortunately, it will never change as there are too many shallow, unthinking people in our society.
This is why you don't see these types of acts (on a regular basis) in these other countries you mention here. There is a differently quality of life in those places. The biggest problem? Respect. Both self respect and respect for others. It seems to be existing less and less here in the US. It's getting really bad. And I don't care what everyone's parents say--it was not this bad back then. This is not cyclical. It is getting worse and worse at a frightening rate. As dumb as the movie 'Idiocracy' is, there are so many truths to it--as to what is important to our society and where we are heading with that.
So, to go full circle: Do we blame the video games? The movies? TV? Sure...that's the easy way out--and let's say we take it all away--will that fix anything? No. Because the problem is, our society wants it--they crave it. That craving nature for this type of crap will always be there. So until our society looks at that stuff and says 'wow, that is really bad and wrong', it will never change.
This kid was picked on, beat on, and pushed to the point where he felt this was his answer. Do I support his actions--hell no. Do I feel sorry for the kid--almost, in a weird kind of way. I can't even imagine living a life where you feel this is the only way out. It has to be horrible. And the sad part is--he no longer has to deal with it. All the families that are left have to deal with the repercussions of his acts. Our society is cruel. And as that gap between the richie rich crowd and the middle american grows wider and wider, it's only going to get worse. Because as that gap grows, the tension grows. And respect between the two 'classes' of people tends to go down the drain.
It's only going to get worse. The only way to fix it, is for all of us in this society to work on it together. Will that happen? No. Will blocking video games, TV shows and movies fix it? No way. That's just a band aid. Not until we all start treating each other with respect and dignity will this change. Unfortunately our society here in the States is a dog eat dog attitude. And the mentality is you have to step on and kick people to get ahead. I mean, our kids don't even respect their parents, teachers, law enforcement. Who is going to be the next guy who loses it and kills a bunch of people? Who knows--which is all the more reason this dumb ass ego attitude has got to stop. - bloobloo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Reason != excuse or justification.
There are reasons why Stalin had millions killed - that doesn't make it right. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5""The guy had psychological problems from childhood that were never dealt with by his family.
My guess is he was paranoid,felt the world was against him and wanted revenge.""
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Are you still talking about Dr. Phil or the VT killer?
I can't tell the difference. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Labour have brought in more regulation than anyone else in the history of this country. They aren't pro choice. In fact I don't think we have a party that could traditionally be considered socially Liberal.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5 He sure is a disgrace. And no one has the gonads to confront him on TV, They just let him mouth off and politely nod....
The guy had psychological problems from childhood that were never dealt with by his family.
My guess is he was paranoid,felt the world was against him and wanted revenge.
And sure,the fact that he was bullied would be a factor. But the fact that he was not right from the get-go would have been what triggered the bullying.(Not excusing bullying here, as it's inappropriate behavior.)
Had he got therapy growing up and had the bullies also gotten therapy, perhaps this would not have happened.
There have always been people like this,before video games,before TV, before radio......Blaming a problem on a game is just lazy thinking.
It's obvious to me Dr. P. skipped Abnormal Psychology class.(Or flunked it.)
I have to wonder if Dr. P. is a mouthpiece for some ones "ban video games" agenda? Sure seems suspicious to me that someone with a medical degree would vomit such verbal BS. - tkstock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What your suggesting though is a destructive test - actually beating people to see how the respondents would react in real life - obviously not a good idea. So you show them actual video footage - and you suggest this isn't close enough to real life? Seeing it with your own eyes? While that may be arguable, I think it's as close as you can get.
Sometimes you have to experimentally extrapolate in an intelligent way in order to predict outcomes - this study does that. And, this isn't the only study that does that, there are many out there to which this study alludes. They are simply extrapolating that responses to actual footage of violence would correllate to reponses to actual violence itself - either way your only connection to it is the viewing of it with your eyes. Seems like a reasonable extrapolation to me.
I applaud you for actually reading the study and commenting on it. Thanks for that. - rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Who is to blame for the VT shootings. The shooter.
Was he influenced by violent pop culture...probably.
In the area where I live, several years ago, some thugs robbed a store. They poured Drano down the throats of the people in the store to silence them.....they say they got the idea from a Dirty Harry movie. The have gone to see the same movie several times. These were rational sane people who did this.
Does popular culture influence people who commit crimes, I would say so. - MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@lflynn9
That is why they are called "possible side effects" if it caused the same reaction in everyone that took it, it would be called an "effect". - afpunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Rooster,
I'm fairly sure Cho felt he was finally standing up to his bullies. - MaynardJK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Get a GED
- rnwen2750, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Use "stupid." It is more accurate to what you mean (even though I entirely disagree with you in the first place). Jerk.
- tkstock, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5So many people look at this in absolutes, or as a causal effect, which is a mistake.
You don't think the onslaught of violent video games, violent music videos, scenes of violence on TV and in movies contributes to the desensitization of our society? If you can't see that then you are blind to the truth.
Psychological desensitization is not a theory - it's a known fact.
Here is the conclusion of a study published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology:
"The present experiment demonstrates that violent video game exposure can cause desensitization to real-life violence. In this experiment, violent game players were less physiologically aroused by real-life violence than were nonviolent game players. It appears that individuals who play violent video games habituate or “get used to” all the violence and eventually become physiologically numb to it."
http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abstracts/2005-2009/06CAB.pdf
This is not a causal effect - playing video games isn't going to cause you to go out and commit violence. However, if you have violent tendencies, playing video games would desensitize you to taking out those violent tendencies on others - essentially impairing your moral judgement to a degree. - JoeBaynham, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I know what to blame it on! Some psycho man who in his messed up little mind he thought it would be cool to kill 32 people.
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