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207 Comments
- scoot87, on 10/12/2007, -15/+222a traitor is someone who betrays his country by committing treason. The man in the article has done nothing to commit treason, while High powered officials are passing laws that are corroding our Constitution. Now thats treason.
- mlorrey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+144As a military veteran who was sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic (not the flag, not any government of any politician or party), I reserve the right to fly the flag upside down or even burn it to express distress at attacks on the Constitution or its abrogation by our officials who are also sworn to protect it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -17/+131So much for freedom of speech. It's starting to look more like a dictatorship every day.
- blablaman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+105"So loyalty to the Constitution takes priority over loyalty to the President?"
Well I'd rather protect the one that this country is based on, keeps all bodies of the government in check, protects my civil liberties, and will be around past 2008. - pault6, on 10/12/2007, -6/+84The flag was the standard flown by the people who wanted the right to be heard. Flying a flag upside down and using that as an opener to discuss issues with his neighbors is a proper exercising of those rights. By the way, statistically 50% of the confederate flags are flown upside down.
- azconza, on 10/12/2007, -3/+80Absolutely! Loyalty to the Constitution first and foremost.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+62Of course loyalty to the Constitution must come first. The President is only one of three branches of government. But the Constitution is the basis of our whole form of government.
- Ndiggnation, on 10/12/2007, -4/+65It's comforting to know there are Marines defending our country, who think it's a good idea to *KILL* a citizen for exercising the freedoms they so proudly protect.
- Tijmen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+58It's not patriotism, it's nationalism. Stupid people fight for symbols, good people fight for the ideas those symbols represent.
- Anpheus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+60The constitution can't be impeached.
Unfortunately, it seems the same is true of criminal presidents. - seattle98104, on 10/12/2007, -20/+69B'B'b'b'b'b'b' BLOCKED.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+56@Haystacker The marines are threatening him. The marines are associated with the government, and what I'm saying, is that people aren't allowing him to his right of free speech. Death threats by the marines for hanging a flag upside down? It sounds more like Iraq than America. That's all I'm saying.
- treelovinhippie, on 10/12/2007, -16/+63***** you Yanks are so friggen patriotic... it's like "American Extreemists" lol.
Do as us Aussies do... grab a beer, head down to the beach and chill. Most of us don't even know what our flag looks like or the words to our anthem, who cares!
It's the culture and people that make a country, not some piece of cloth with coloured dye on it. - libertymls, on 10/12/2007, -7/+54The upside down flag is a symbol of distress. All true patriots realize that our country is indeed in distress. The arrest of this farmer for airing his opinion illustrates perfectly how far our country has come from the Constitution. Please also read this article by Aaron Zelman of JPF0 http://www.jpfo.org/alert20020628.htm
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+51"A Democracy will vote away its rights." -- Benjamin Franklin.
Gotta love ol' Benjamin. He was one hell of a party-er (loved his alcohol, participated in orgies), but I'd rather that drunken, orgy-participater run this country than anyone we have now... - Wiggles2, on 10/12/2007, -20/+66davenp I hope there are many snakes on your plane
- scoot87, on 10/12/2007, -6/+50Thats what so wrong with many deilussioned supporters of the president. They don't realize the threat towards the Constitution in a domestic aspect.
- MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -4/+46I always find it ironic that the same people that call people like this guy un-American, are the same people trying to remove his 1st amendment rights.
Yeah, real American... ***** hypocrites. - BoneDaddy64, on 10/12/2007, -4/+40Oh, I am sure davenp35 has "read" the Constitution. However, I doubt he believes in the concepts codified therein. Notice he immediately calls someone a traitor. The "Brown-shirts" in Germany did the same thing during their rise to power. No davenp35, I contend that it is YOU who are a seditious piece of garbage.
- MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+33"So loyalty to the Constitution takes priority over loyalty to the President?"
Damn right it does. That peice of paper the the whole idea this country is founded upon. - goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34davenp35:
Principles of liberalism - liberty, due process, free speech, individual rights - are built into the US Constitution. Using slander and threats of violence to quiet dissent is a kind of fascism, completely opposed to liberalism. You, and the townspeople and marine vets of the article, are fascists.
So it's ironic that you call a farmer like Dale Klyn or the guy who submitted this article traitors. Because it's YOU, and the people shouting traitor, that show a complete disrespect for this country by disrespecting everything the Constitution stands for. Realize that the only reason the US remains a free country is because fascists like you exist only at the margins of politics and media. Sensible people need to speak out more to make sure you stay there. - Spanktacular, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32Zealotry is not patriotism.
- sillywampa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29@Haecus
Absolutely loyalty to the constitution over any single President. The President is an elected official who is supposed to be bound by the Constitution. The Constitution defines our system of government and our rights as citizens. The President is supposed to be a servant of the people in defense of the Constitution. No one person can ever be held higher than the ideals set forth in that document. - fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30@haystacker: "The government has taken no action"
It's right in the headline: "Upside-Down American Flag Brings Farmer *ARREST*"
How did you know you might want to come here and comment without reading the ***** headline? - PongGod, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33I think you're closing in on a record for most unpopular comment.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30Sounds like davenp35 has never read the law of the land, the US Constitution. That isn't very surprising, considering the eloquence of his comment.
- hazlett, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27these marines should be ashamed to even call themselves Americans. Freedoms which this farmer is displaying are the very things the marines boast of fighting to preserve.
And, of course, the Constitution takes precedence over the president. - toomyw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27It starts to bring tears to my eyes when a citizen of the USA wants to kill another citizen over his practicing of free speech. Yet, I remain hopeful that things will improve and that we can stop being so polarized and start being more inclusive.
- Libberkey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26A bunch of bigots who do NOT respect freedom are terrorizing this man. But this man knows what freedom really is. He knows what free speech really is. And he knows what it means to support and love one's neighbor.
The bigots don't realize, that by violating this man's rights, they violate their own - and may eventually give them up by being imprisoned (if they take it much too far). If a man isn't free to fly his flag as he likes, in accordance with his Free Speech - or even burn it - he is not FREE.
Here's a man who's side it is easy to be ON. - guregu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22The forum where the death threats were made:
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31729 - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24The Confederate Battle Flag and the Confederate Naval Jack (what 99% of people think of when you metion "Confederate Flag") look the same, but the ACTUAL Official Flags of the Confederacy (3 of them in all) would absolutely look differently upside down than right side up.
- lubacious, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19what part of "the supreme law of the land" confuses you?
- thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19I used to do the same thing every columbus day. (in front of an elementary school no less)
- helix400, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Timeless fact #1: Death threats are extremely immature.
Timeless fact #2: Death threats on web forums are sadly very common. - kingofearth2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17So that means I can get my neighbors in trouble for disorderly conduct around Christmas time for their decorations because I don't like Christianity? You shouldn't get in trouble for displaying your opinion on your own property. Or anywhere for that matter.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16TAKE IT BACK, IM GOING TO FIND YOUR FAMILY AND KILL YOU
*VERY obvious sarcasm - wickedtribe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14My father was in the Army and so was I. I know Marines, I trained with them. These are not Marines. These are people that where in the Marines. I would not even bother to call down people in the Army who did this because they would not be Soldiers. Real Soldiers understand that they have sacrificed some of their privileges so that others can have theirs. I could not do what this man in Iowa did under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) but the reason I live under the UCMJ is for the discipline that is necessary in war. The wars that defend his right to display the flag anyway he likes as a form of protest or otherwise (not this war however different thang here). This is even less offensive than burning the flag. But that is opinion - opinion is the purview of polititions and civilians and talk shows. All protected by the Constitution. Those Marines need to stop with the opinions about what people do with the rights people have from the Constitution and shut up and defend it.
- Rigbymatt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17how can you tell you diddnt get the joke?
- cheapskate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14@haystacker:
The constitution is there to protect the PEOPLE _FROM_ the president, the congress, the bureaucrats, and yes, against marines. Not the other way around. - goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19iamdw:
I'll step up. The title says "arrest, death threats", ie., threat of arrest + death threats. He's being charged, close enough don't you think? Focus on the point of the article and don't whine and nitpick meaninglessly about the title. - MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Oh man if it was that easy to get someone who I disagreed with arrested, I would have a field day.
- shirosamurai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13As a liberal who is critical of many things happening in the US right now, I still say patriotism is a good thing. However, there is a fine line between patriotism and zealotry for your country. Patriotism to me is being proud of our history, our founding fathers, and the beliefs that this nation was founded on. When patriotism crosses into zealotry or nationalism is when people begin spewing hate-filled speech about how America is always right and always #1, when there so many things that need fixing in this country, on many, many levels.
It's people like these who are harming America. The neoconservative ideology (not traditional conservatism!) is a twisted, hypocritical thing. People who make death threats against this guy have it so backwards, it's sickening. They trample on the constitution and the bill of rights, and yet they still run their mouths about how we're so great and will always be the greatest country in the world. Reading that forum and particularly that thread.. it's astounding how many ignorant bigots we have in this country.
It's sick. And it's no wonder why the world hates us... - mrbinary, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"I find it hard to believe Marines wouldn't know the distress signal."
As do I, but unfortunately it seems that most Americans wrongly interpret an upside down flag as a desecration, rather than as a universal sign of distress. It can be done with any flag, and conveys the same non-political message.
An upside down flag is, in fact, nearly identical in meaning to flying a flag half-mast. One is ambiguous while the other is not: half-mast can symbolize either distress or grief, but upside down it can ONLY symbolize distress.
I somehow doubt that he would have received death threats had he flown his flag half mast.
I'm saddened by the fact that people who claimed to have "fought for the flag" (which isn't the case at all - they're confusing the object itself with the values that it represents) have so little understanding of it. - MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11You obviously missed the point, however you proved it quite well with your actions.
- atomicfireball, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12==It's not patriotism, it's nationalism. Stupid people fight for symbols, good people fight for the ideas those symbols represent.==
Yep. You pretty much nailed that one on the head, although I would argue that it's worth than Nationism... it's Jingoism. But I think we can both certainly agree that you shouldn't confuse either true patriotism which holds fast to the ideals upon which our country were founded, and which are so eloquently expressed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. - datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I thought flying a flag upside down meant SOS or in need of help..
- Sotired, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11absolutely
even the President himself takes an oath to defend the Constitution, as do all lawmakers in all branches of Government. It is NOT a case of my President right or wrong.
We are all honor bound to protect the Constitution, A person may have to protect and defend the Constitution from a lawmaker that wishes to abuse it.
This does not say however that one may also have to protect the President while performing ones duty to the Constitution.The President is not a Super-Citizen. They are given Authority by the People, arising from, and spelled out by the Constitution. The Constitution protects all Citizens from zealots and would be monarchs and despots.- So yes the Constitution over the President period. - goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16haystacker:
The police, the prosecutor, and the courts are part of the government. When someone is "charged", that's government action. You could not be more wrong.
And "free speech" is protected by the Constitution, but it is also protected by the people of the USA who uphold and support the Constitution. andrebrown's comment, "So much for freedom of speech", is dead on with respect to this article. The government is abusing free speech by charging the farmer for making a political statement with his flag. And the people of the town and the marine vets show they have zero respect for the most fundamental constitutional values of this country. You're the one making yourself "look like an idiot" here. - Sotired, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Haystacker
I can't believe you would write what you did at the end of your eloquent opener.
You realize the Constitution does NOT protect the flag and the marine CAN burn it if he wants in protest - and if You don't like it - you can stay here and enjoy everything he fought to protect for you . - even you ability to tell him to get the ***** out.
but thankfully you don't run things. Peace Brother dude.
You may want to actually read the constitution its a beautiful document. you'll find out about the flag thing too. -
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