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99 Comments
- captinherb, on 10/12/2007, -8/+107If they went backed and looked and could only find 8, they REALLY shouldn't be running the country.
- devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -12/+110Bitch, PLEASE.
- brianjameskirk, on 10/12/2007, -8/+84Look everyone, the Ministry of Truth signed up for Digg.
- neoform, on 10/12/2007, -6/+811. My tie is blue
2. My tie is blue
3. My tie is blue
4. My tie is blue
5. My tie is blue
6. My tie is blue
7. My tie is blue
8. My tie is blue
I never said my tie was blue.. see, i only said it 8 times, that barely counts as anything. - DucoNihilum, on 10/12/2007, -19/+84There is a very clear attempt to mislead....
- ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+72Stephanopolous: "So...Stay the Course?"
Bush: "I was never about Stay the Course."
Reporters: "Yes he was."
TonySnow: "I never heard it."
YouTube, Olbermann: "Here's six times you said it!"
TonySnow: "We checked...uh, we can only find 8 times he's said it. That's not that much."
Interweb: "Here's 22 more times!"
TonySnow: "But that's not what he...uh...meant...." - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -9/+67oh for ***** sake.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+55http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=site%3Awhitehouse.gov+%22stay+the+course%22&btnG=Search
it's only on the whitehouse own website like 100 times.. and thats even weeding out the times it was the press secratary repeating the phrase. - aldente, on 10/12/2007, -4/+50The Bush administration's approach has been to frame the Iraq debate as a false dilemma between two extreme strategies--"stay the course" or "cut and run"--in order to decry their critics as cowardly defeatists. Now that the majority of Americans do not seem to favor open-ended occupation of Iraq, they are in the unenviable position of having to qualify their previous rhetoric so as not to be tarred by their own brush. I predict that shortly after the election, there will be a significant course change: probably a tenative timeline for troop withdrawl. What the Republicans are doing now is laying the semantic groundwork for the future talking point that it is a _tactical_ change rather than a _strategic_ one, and that their core strategy has been right all along.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+35The fact is that the President very clearly said last Sunday that "We've never been "Stay the Course", when its also very clear that he has described it in exactly those terms in the past. How does "only eight times" make this ***** debacle any better? Does Snow really think no one is going to ***** check this ***** out? wtf?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35He has been lying so long he believe his own lies.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30Rummy "I never said We new where the Weapons where."
Ray McGovern. "Yes you did you said they are in the north the south the east and the west of baghdad. - expressive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30You know, as polls show, most Americans favor getting out, so by slandering the Democrats with "cut-and-run" , the GOP are in fact calling the American people - all of us - cowards!
- cphuntington97, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27There are five lights.
-obscure? not with this crowd - piznut, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Stay the course?
"The definition of insanity is: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
-- Albert Einstein - amoirae, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25Tony Snow lies... Fox Ticker Tape parade at 11.
- alexcurpas, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24@brianjameskirk, that's actually the ministry of TRUTHINESS.
- tpodr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22I was pissed about this last night. So I decided to "***** check this ***** out". In one hour, I grew weary of this exercise and I was only 1/3 of the way through.
Risking all and doing a White House search on "Stay the Course", I found the following in the 154 results returned. In the first 40 hits, I found 23 meaningful citations. Within these 23 cites, there are 44 uses of the phrase.
http://theplaceofdeadroads.blogspot.com/2006/10/stay-course.html - winterlungs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Don't sign your posts, this is the internet, you are no one.
-Mike - dancpsu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23It's almost funny how many rhetorical missteps the Bush administration has done. This one shows how carefully a politician has to phrase things though.
"Stay the course" could be as general as staying in Iraq until the original goal of Iraqis defending themselves is met. But it could be narrowly defined as keeping the troop levels and missions in Iraq exactly the same. Before the administration knew it, the media had already defined "stay the course" as the latter definition. Now backtracking to the former definition looks like giving in.
"Cut and run" doesn't have this problem, partly because it was never was really used by democrats, but mainly because democrats have never agreed on if they want troops withdrawn immediately, within a year, or just to make some timeline when they get in power (that would be overrun anyway). Some democrats wanted more troops sent to Iraq, more pressure on the Iraqi gov't, and more equipment sent. The differing and opposing plans made through statements by democrats ultimately hurt them as being seen to not have a unified view on a very important subject. - meamog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19It's important when your government flat-out lies to you. To me, it's VERY important.
- Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25@DucoNihilum -- Hahaha, that's the best you right wing hacks can do? Seriously?! I'm disappointed.
Let me point out the implications of your absurd attempt at defending an objectively false statement.
"He did not make a definite statement, he said that that was all that was found, which is accurate to the best of your knowledge."
There are two possibilities here. Either Andrew Snow was lying when he stated that Bush had used the phrase only eight times -- in other words, he knew that Bush had used it much more frequently, and deliberately told the press otherwise in an Orwellian attempt to rewrite history. Or the White House staff did indeed look into the matter, and actually only found eight instances of the phrase, in which case Snow is telling the truth.
If the latter scenario is true, that would mean the people running this country -- the people responsible for your personal security and mine -- are so insanely stupid and incompetent that they can't run a Google search. In this fantasy world you've constructed, the leaders of our federal government -- whose duty is to prevent complex, coordinated terrorist attacks -- are unable to run a simple search query that my grandmother is capable of running. Futhermore, they are so arrogant, they are willing to believe that such a task is beyond the abilities of ANYONE in the world with internet access -- since Snow must have known beforehand that at least one person in the world would type "Bush stay the course" into Google to verify his statement.
Even if your incorrect version of reality were true, we'd still have the worst government in this nation's history. Of course, in the real world, Snow simply lied, knowing full well that his lie would be exposed in a matter of minutes. I'm not sure which scenario is worse. - xs650, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Buried because you're an asshat. Bush doesn't worry me nearly as much as the 30% of my fellow Americans with their heads so firmly planted up their asses that they still approve of Bush
- DeadLikeMe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14I really hate it when politicians think I'm dumb as a rock, that my memory is faulty, that my reasoning abilities are absent or that I cannot figure out where the voting booth is or that they can sway my vote with reasoning that my deaf, dumb, and blind, dog would ***** on.
These bozos deserve a visit from Vlad the Impaler. - archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Tony Snow is paid to lie.
- uptown, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZE20lzZZF0&mode=related&search=
- omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13"I have yet to find a democrat that can tell me what exactly the democrat party stands for without getting all huffy,puffy and pissy about something that George Bush sad or did."
Okay, how about this: the Democratic Party doesn't stand for any one policy because they are a big tent party. They have room for as many points of view as this country has, and they will listen to all of them to decide the best course of action.
"How about raised taxes"
For whom? Clinton cut taxes for the middle class.
"more handouts for slackers"
Clinton passed Welfare Reform.
"reduced defense budget"
At the end of the Cold War, of course we didn't need the same military spending levels. And keep it in perspective: we spend seven times more on our military than any other country in the world.
"no real plan for Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Palestine"
As opposed to what the administration is (not) doing now? All of the above have only gotten worse during Bush's watch, largely due to his inaction. He doesn't know how to engage in meaningful diplomacy, and he's let these problems fester over and boil. Past administrations, Republicans included, were at least able to talk.
I'm tired of the GOP's stereotypes about Democrats and liberals. Forgive us for having a conscience when we decry human rights abuses and ask for integrity in government. Forgive us for caring for the poor and seeking a more peaceful foreign policy – these are values Jesus extolled. "Love your neighbor... love your enemies... turn the other cheek" – just words that are fun to listen to in church, I suppose. - vegascoop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Another "Snow-job."
- peritonlogon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Duco kind of has a point, these guys aren't exactly known for solid research, and they are mentally lazy, so, they probably stopped looking after 8 appearances and called it a day, maybe went to play golf (on the clock) or trim the hedges or interview a page or something.
Google can be a real bitch sometimes when your half in the bag and the weekend is a-callin. Sometimes it's also hard to speak to your boss after your lips have gotten a stank brown on them (these career ladders don't climb themselves).
So, let's not consider these people liars, they're just guys with things other than America and politics on their mind. - jbrevik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Is this any surprise. Bush has spent most of his life trying to cover his ass.
- Wavey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+138 or 30, what does it matter? Either are enough times to make it a mantra.
- archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"I don't even support bush, but does that mean I turn my ***** sensors off? No.... "
So, in your opinion, Tony Snow was not ***** in that little excerpt?
Going through semantic hoops to somehow underline the fact that - technically - Snow isn't necessarily lying, well, makes you look like a Bush apologist, undermining any pretense you may have had at objective neutrality in this matter. If you were really out to call BS, then you'd be honest enough to recognize the stinking mound of such that is Tony Snow. That man is paid to lie. He can't possibly be a Christian and believe that what he does is morally acceptable. - tigerpaper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14uggghh
Hearing Tony Snow trying to make an arguement like this just makes me sick to my stomach, it's so pointless and retarded. Whether he was correct about it or not...
Who exactly do they think is going to be swayed by something like this? - lateralus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Citizen Mike agrees, 2+2=5.
Now on to more important news about Madonna's child adoption woes. - vietvet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12
Bush is a punk. A chickenhawk. He has no honor. - Djerrid, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12That was such a well thought-out critique of the "stay the course" rhetoric that I befriended you.
- monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Action is important.
It's just embarrassing that when your actions failed miserably, and you are caught lying at the same time. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14I'm beginning to think this whole thing is a made for YOU-TUBE joke. The polls are against him 70+ 30- . We are in an official dictator. The Military commissions act has passed and now anyone who opposes the president can be labeled a Enemy combatant and held indefinitely.
- cleverboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@DucoNihilum - "You guys are taking this way out of proportion. Just because someone had the wrong number on a totally UNIMPORTANT ISSUE (this wasn't something like numbers in a war...) does not mean that they are incompetent, or trying an 'Orwellian' attempt to rewrite history."
To be honest, I never would have imagined, but yes, they are trying to rewrite history. One of the Bush Admin's biggest assertions is never "waffling" or changing its mind (or at least appearing to). They path the "chinks" in the armor really quickly. It's not cool to pretend your perfect.
Let me put it to you this way. Way back at the start of this, I was reading Michael Moore's blog, and he posted this rant about how there were NO WMD's and that this Iraq War was being sold on lies. I thought at the time, WOW, either he's going to look like a COMPLETE IDIOT or he'll come off like a genius at the end of this. Turns out he was completely right, but Bush is still coming off as "reasonable", even in the face of overwelmingly disasterous policies and false assertions. After being criticized that "stay the course" is the wrong message to be sending, now the Bush Administration is trying to pretend they didn't really say it. Much like they never really sdaid that Iraq was connected to 9/11. Much like they never said a number of other things that turned out to be different. This is another string in a pattern of deceit. Whether just self-deceit or deceit of the American people by intention. This administration wants to be excused from the Geneva Convention, and explains it all away conveniently (despite objections from Colin Powell no less). Now they've suspended Habeas Corpus, acured a 1 trillion dollar debt through Iraq, and continue to expend our military strength like it was a bottomless well on a war with no end.
UNIMPORTANT? Come on. If you really think this particular issue is (true or false) an island, unrelated to anything else, then you're your own Bush Administration. - carnytrash, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11But... but... CLINTON!!
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Do these nitwits even realize that what they say ends up on TV? Transcribed? Posted to the intarwebs? Transported via a series of tubes? Indexed by the Google?
We are not as stupid as you would hope, Tony. Some of us are not even as stupid as your right wing media attempts to keep us. - PieceOfShoe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Why would anyone make this comment?
If they never said it that would be a comment worth making. But of course they did.
If they said it only once they may claim that it was a slip of the tongue or a mistake of another form.
Eight is infintely more than zero.
Eight is significantly more than one. People usually don't repeat the same serious mistake eight times.
That the actual number may be 30 or 100 is less interesting to me than that the Administration acknowledges they made this statement a significant amount of times.
Only way to retract that statement now is to admit they made a mistake then and now have seen the error of their ways. I didn't see that in the statement.
It was truncated. Maybe he admit he was wrong at the end? Maybe the President admitted he was wrong?
Anyone have a link to a more complete video or transcript? - Mardala, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I get the feeling the administration doesn't censor their own site when they flip-flop (did I say flip-flop? I thought Kerry was the flip-flopper)
Do a search on Bush's stance on torture a few years back? Thats for a good laugh. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12yeah they test ran adapt and win... but that didnt play well
- Revadarth, on 10/12/2007, -13/+201. Cut and run.
2. Cut and run.
3. Cut and run.
4. Cut and run.
5. Cut and run.
6. Cut and run.
7. Cut and run.
8. Cut and run. - Barlo_Mung, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Happy? No it doesn't really. All I need is for my government not to lie to me all the time and I'd be fricken peachy. Why is not lying so much SO hard for them to do?
- stylerm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8well, if he was honest he would be fired. That is pretty much the track record for anyone in this administrations that is honest.
- inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Hey, Bill Clinton only said "I did not have sex with that woman" once. He's 1/8th the liar that Bush is. Awesome!
I bet the righties who were up-in-arms over Clinton will be 8 times as mad at Bush, huh?
Yeah... - smokinjuan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7they don't *think* your're dumb, they *know* you and everyone else won't do a ***** thing about it.
- dgendreau, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Um, how about universal healthcare, gay and minority rights, education, labor unions, campaign finance reform, a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, election accountability, net neutrality for starters...
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