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203 Comments
- kp998, on 03/14/2009, -3/+126FTA: Evaluating the policy strictly from an empirical perspective, decriminalization has been an unquestionable success, leading to improvements in virtually every relevant category and enabling Portugal to manage drug-related problems (and drug usage rates) far better than most Western nations that continue to treat adult drug consumption as a criminal offense.
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -0/+119I'm Portuguese. The decriminalization is not actually felt among light drug users (like marijuana). It's very hard to find real weed (most of it is in hash form) because people grow it for themselves, and distribution is obviously illegal and avoided. Even the existing hash is often of bad quality.
The only difference is that you can get caught with a small amount of it and not get arrested. In America it's full blown paranoid hypocrisy all the way - you can even get detained for taking pictures of the wrong building. But at least there is good weed in California... :/ - SuperMoses, on 03/15/2009, -0/+105http://www.idpc.info/php-bin/documents/BFDPP_BP_14 ...
CONCLUSION
"The statistical indicators suggest that since the decriminalization in July 2001, the following developments have occurred:
Increased use of cannabis.
Decreased use of heroin.
Increased uptake of treatment.
Reduction in drug related deaths."
The report does caution that these are still early results and other factors may have contributed to those results. Nonetheless, it definitely does not support the doomsayer's theory that decriminalization of all drugs would be a disastrous policy. This report was from 2004 by the Beckley Foundation. The digg article is more recent but funded by the Cato Institute. From my understanding, Beckley Foundation is not a political organization, but Cato Institute is.
I would like to see more data on this and preferably from a non-bias source. For the record, I support decriminalization and lean towards full legalization. - inactive, on 03/15/2009, -9/+90The prison-industrial complex in the US is very powerful and will not readily give up their access to a million-man strong prison labor workforce. Slavery is big business! This will be a hard fought battle in the states.
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -1/+81The Drug War isn't a failure. It is the problem.
- BlueLove775, on 03/15/2009, -0/+52I'm surprised how all of a sudden everyone wants to legalize weed, it's been getting a lot of attention lately. It's awesome. People are finally opening their eyes.
- caramba421, on 03/15/2009, -3/+52Not as much as we like policy based on reason and sound analysis, rather than dogma and yellow journalism
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -1/+45Despite the complaints of some people, there really isn't a lot of crime in Portugal overall, I think. There is some crime related to immigrants from Africa or Ukraine (almost every country has some crime affluence from immigration of less developed countries - and Americans are familiar with that), but nothing to be paranoid about.
And definitely none of it is drug related, I'd say...
But I can be wrong, obviously. You'd have to check statistic data.
Want a better example? Amsterdam. Netherlands is the country with the highest average IQ score in all of European Union, highest education and one of the lowest crime rates. They are fairly developed technologically, and guess what, marijuana is legal. - inactive, on 03/15/2009, -5/+33Some people just have this weird fetish for freedom. What's that ***** all about?
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -0/+26It's almost technically legal ;)
- ripple123, on 03/15/2009, -1/+27probably because the war on drugs is expensive, and money is tight these days.
- spookyttws, on 03/15/2009, -4/+26I had no idea a country has actually gone through with something I support so much.
- SuperMoses, on 03/15/2009, -2/+23Technically it's not legal in Amsterdam, but it is also not really enforced.
- smacksaw, on 03/15/2009, -2/+20Ron Paul's xkcd edition iPhone decriminalises marijuana every time you jailbreak it.
Portugal has gone far, but not far enough. You have to think they are in the same boat with the EU as Oregon or California are with the USA. Some federal bureaucracy telling them what to do or pressuring them and blackmailing them.
I'm tellin' ya...federalism...we wouldn't even need to lobby the federal gov't to legalise weed if the federal gov't got the ***** out of the states' business. - mannajar, on 03/15/2009, -0/+18The issue is whether the cure is worse than the disease.
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -3/+21Comedian and social commentator Doug Stanhope makes a very funny and convincing argument for drug decriminalization:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd5_nTwLVEg - ivosilva, on 03/15/2009, -0/+17I'm Portuguese too, and I believe the increase in crime is not related to drugs. It's mostly related to the economic crisis, immigration and the overall inefficiency of our Justice Departments.
It must be stressed that these criminality increases are noted mostly in cities like Lisbon and Porto. As an example, I'm originally from a medium-sized city (in our standards) - Guimarães, and 7 years ago I moved to Covilhã (small-sized city) to study, and ended up staying there working, and I must say, it's the safest city I've ever been in. I can walk late at night, alone, in the darkest street and I can be sure that I'm not getting robbed! Unfortunately I can't say that about other cities.
And these immigration issues are mostly due to second and third generation immigrants. It's not the parents that come here to work that cause trouble, it's their kids who grow up here, or are born here... It's really sad... - Technopundit, on 03/15/2009, -6/+22This article says precisely nothing.
- psykiv, on 03/15/2009, -0/+16But if we decriminilize it, that means that cops have more time to go after the real criminals.
That can't be good for business. :( - diptheria, on 03/15/2009, -1/+17RTFA
"On April 3, at 12:00 noon, at the Cato Institute in Washington, I'll be presenting the 50-page report I wrote for Cato, entitled Drug Decriminalization in Portugal."
This is like an abstract for the paper he will be presenting next month... - phauna, on 03/15/2009, -0/+15What about crime, does it feel like robbery and other related crimes have decreased?
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -0/+15Look, I'll bet $100 that whoever complains about crime in Portugal (nunofgs, I'm looking at you) has never really lived for more than 6 months in a country outside of Europe. Am I right?
Besides, it's definitely not drug related. Yes car theft might be a problem - nothing I never saw in LA - it's even worse there. Gas stations? Who gives a *****. In America, the guys at 7 Eleven are so used to that ***** they just already know all the gang members by name. Armored trucks filled with money, that's high class *****! That's like, James Bond status - I applaud those guys. We're talking about crap that affects us walking down the street at night. Not that kind of stuff.
The little criminality that exists is definitely NOT drug related, so let's not send the wrong message here, OK? - draxenato, on 03/15/2009, -1/+15plus if it's legalised it can be taxed, it's a new revenue stream for government
- AntoniusMaximus, on 03/15/2009, -0/+14The Portuguese law has applied nearly the same model as Belgium. Basically :
- You want it? Grow it.
- Smoke it freely, but respect no smoking signs.
- It is still illegal to sell it.
- Don't carry more than x grammes with you, because we'll assume you're selling.
Good move. It will make the country an even better place to be. Since the Carnation Revolution, Portugal's struggle has been hard but it becomes better day by day, and moves like this make me feel proud of my country of birth. - sei0n, on 03/15/2009, -3/+17Much of the time it isn't for drugs. I myself was a student in a Portuguese school and a personal victim of having a phone stolen from me. I can say that some children are either badly educated (if they see something lying around their first thought isn't to find out who it belongs to, but rather to simply take it), or they take it to sell for actual money, because they don't have that much themselves. Though perhaps I'm perceiving it lightly because I lived in a reasonable area, I wouldn't like to think that whomever stole my phone sold it to buy drugs. Oh, and most of the crime isn't actually commited by Portuguese, but by immigrants to the country. It sounds harsh, but it's the reality.
- CopsSayLegalize, on 03/15/2009, -1/+15This is why so many cops who have been on the front lines of the failed "war on drugs" are now saying it's time to legalize.
- DeathByCake, on 03/15/2009, -2/+15Or you could be realistic and realise that at some point your child will be old enough that they can make their own decisions and will likely try some form of narcotic.
- SuperMoses, on 03/15/2009, -0/+13What a random attack that's unrelated to the article (drug decriminalisation). Why an article on just children missing/abused in Portugal? What about children missing everywhere.
Don't act like your ***** don't stink: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/international/eu ...
I get the sense that this attack has something to do with the McCann case. - Pugmonkeys, on 03/15/2009, -3/+16Lets see how your points stack up against weed.
1. Kids can already get marijuana. At my middle school, weed was rampant. It was always easier for us to find dope then to get booze. We still managed to get alcohol but your point here is way off base.
2. Smoking weed slows your reaction time, but it also makes you a paranoid driver(IE careful driver). It is significantly safer to drive stoned then to drive drunk. Is it recommended? No, but it is nowhere's near as bad as driving drunk.
3. Name any disease or physical problem that comes from smoking weed. Besides lethargy and absent mindedness.
4. You can't overdose on weed.
5. It is not addictive. It is habit forming, but so is brushing your teeth.
6. Have you ever in your entire life met a violent pot head?
You are just straight up wrong. Misinformed and wrong. - Nick5309, on 03/15/2009, -0/+13stream of revenue? Bro, between the actual drug itself, and the increase in sales of food and other stoner related items, it's going to be a ***** Niagara Falls of revenue.
- booksnmore4you, on 03/15/2009, -0/+13My thing is this:
I don't want someone in their 20s or so with a bright future ahead of them have all of that go to pot (pun intended) just because they get busted with a baggie. To me, that's the greater crime than the weed. - inactive, on 03/15/2009, -0/+12Drive?
Unlike North America, Europe has trains that works. - dtr300, on 03/15/2009, -0/+12sangjmoon, Good luck on having drugs stay away from your child. If your child is at all exposed to the outside world, your child will be exposed to drugs. Better to teach your kids how to have the strength of character to say no rather than trying to shelter them from all harm. As a parent myself, one reason I am FOR the legalization of marijuana is because it would take marijuana sales out of the hands of criminals. So, if someone wants to use marijuana, they can go down to the corner store and buy a pack, not go to the drug dealer on the street who is also selling heroin, crack, meth, etc.
- Metavised, on 03/15/2009, -0/+12For those who are genuinely interested:
=============================================
"The statistical indicators suggest that since the decriminalization in July 2001, the following developments have occurred:
• Increased use of cannabis.
• Decreased use of heroin.
• Increased uptake of treatment.
• Reduction in drug related deaths."
THE EFFECTS OF DECRIMINALIZATION OF DRUG USE IN PORTUGAL (2007)
http://www.idpc.info/php-bin/documents/BFDPP_BP_14 ...
=============================================
"The structuring principles are translated into a set of thirteen "strategic options" (Government of Portugal, 2000, pp. 43-44) that form the heart of Portuguese drug policy. These are:
1. To reinforce international cooperation and to promote active participation of Portugal in the definition and evaluation of the strategies and policies of the international community and the European Union;
2. To decriminalize the use of drugs, prohibiting them as a breach of administrative regulations.
3. To redirect the focus to primary prevention.
4. To extend and improve the quality and response capacity of the healthcare network for drug addicts, so as to ensure access to treatment for all drug addicts who seek treatment.
5. Extend harm reduction policies, namely through syringe and needle exchange programs and the low-threshold administration of substitution drugs as well as the establishment of special information and motivation centers.
6. To promote and encourage the implementation of initiatives to support social and professional reintegration of drug addicts.
7. To guarantee conditions for access to treatment for imprisoned drug addicts and to extend harm reduction policies to prison establishments.
8. To guarantee the necessary mechanisms to allow the enforcement by the competent bodies of measures such as voluntary treatment of drug addicts as an alternative to prison sentences.
9. To increase scientific research and the training of human resources in the field of drugs and drug addiction.
10. To establish methodologies and procedures for evaluation of public and private initiatives in the field of drugs and drug addiction.
11. To adopt a simplified model of interdepartmental political coordination for the development of the national drug strategy (IPDT replaces Projecto Vida).
12. To reinforce the combat against drug trafficking and money laundering and to improve the articulation between the different national and international authorities.
13. To double public investment to 160 million EURO (at the rhythm of 10% a year) over the next five years, so as to finance the implementation of the national drug strategy."
http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/pordecrim ...
===============================================
"While drug use, possession, and acquisition are still illicit activities in Portugal, these acts have been decriminalized. Acts that could once bring a prison sentence of three months to a year will now result in the confiscation of the illicit substance and a referral, not to a trial, but to a three-person commission to evaluate the offender. Under this new law, non-addicts may receive monetary fines or other penalties, while addicts will only receive non-monetary penalties."
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/portugal.html
=============================================== - thefarouk, on 03/15/2009, -0/+12Of course you haven't... our Federalist overlords don't want us hearing of any such stories where other governments and communities may have decied that the feds are completely wrong.
- DanThePainter, on 03/15/2009, -0/+12I believe that a certain percentage of any population is disposed toward a dependent relationship with mood and mind altering things. Even with legal and easily obtainable booze, we don't see a large number of sloppy drunkards totally ruining their lives. Most people have better things to do than to travel that miserable road.
The biggest problem with the prohibition "solution" is that it creates a black market and introduces many non-criminal people to the shadows of the criminal underground. - byronm, on 03/15/2009, -2/+13Government isn't a problem. With or without government you will have people that want to impose control. There is good government and bad government but the ideology that government is bad is nothing but a utopian libertarian view that is doomed to fail. Government is about people and you can't take the evil out of the people. You can however focus on the good. Ending the war on drugs is focusing back on the good.
- JoaoPe, on 03/15/2009, -1/+12In Portugal you can have at most 5 grams (I guess that's 5, maybe a little more) like you've your car keys in your pocket. Police can't take it from you.
Obviously you can't sell drugs. - sanman, on 03/15/2009, -0/+11What about the success of decriminalization of prostitution?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/1 ... - Barackalypse, on 03/15/2009, -5/+15No, the Government is the problem, the war on drugs is just one manifestation of it. So long as the world is full of people who think they know better than you what you should or shouldn't be allowed to do and so long as the Government remains a viable mechanism for enforcing the wishes of those people, you will have this tyranny.
- TunisEleven, on 03/15/2009, -2/+12Did you even read the article? Like it said, none of your nightmare scenarios came through. Everyone just relaxed, and smoked a bowl. Relax dude.
- lukak, on 03/15/2009, -2/+12Legalizing drugs will work. No doubt. I'm happy - check that - VERY happy for it to do so.
However, there needs to be massive regulation of any industry surrounding the production of addictive substances - that is, cocaine, heroin, and other opiates. In a politcal environment like the one in the states which for the last 20 years or more which has encouraged substantial deregulation of the market as well as unchecked lobbyists which seem to control the hearts and minds (read - wallets) of it's representatives, there needs to be as much policing on the side of corporations which provide the product as there is now on the users of said products.
Diggers, by all means provide support for organizations pushing for reform like this. But be smart about this. - draxenato, on 03/15/2009, -0/+10Switzerland went through a similar process in the early 90s, they've seen an 82% drop in the number of new heroin users in one canton alone.
- JoeVet, on 03/15/2009, -1/+11Decriminalization without legalization leaves the distribution in the hands of criminals and negates any good effects of legalizing. Criminals will continue to push this stuff onto children and vulnerable individuals. I would doubt there would be any decrease in use if left in their hands. Legalize it and get the criminal element out of the system and then there is a much better chance of controling its use/abuse.
- diptheria, on 03/15/2009, -1/+11You are a douchebag, KevinBoski.
- behonest, on 03/15/2009, -1/+11Damn it!! All this time I could've been using prison-slaves. Why didn't anybody tell me about this before?
- emailowndme, on 03/15/2009, -0/+9Decriminalization means they don't arrest you for having them.
As in user's don't go to jail.
Legalization means you are free to buy and sell and put them in herbal supplements, etc.
If we were to legalize it in the US, I'd like to see the same restrictions on crossing the border with the stuff, and it should only be sold in government stores, and should still be banned from herbal supplements, though could be put in medicines after extensive testing by the FDA, and clearly marked on packaging.
For clarification, I am for the legalization of all drugs; put an age limit on them, tax em, and good to go. - fury420, on 03/15/2009, -1/+102. nobody is suggesting driving while impaired, and regardless of what changes, police will still be able to arrest & prosecute people for DUI just like they do now with alcohol
3. please provide some examples of "diseases" and "physical problems" caused by ingestion & digestion of THC, or via vaporization. the whole "same as tobacco" thing wont fly, there is no need to inhale the smoke from burning cannabis
4. overdose? how? i think your confused with something else. if by overdose you mean suffocation by being smothered by several tonnes of cannabis? sure
6. please provide some shred of evidence linking marijuana use to domestic violence. i'd just love to see it, honestly - draxenato, on 03/15/2009, -1/+10"From my understanding, Beckley Foundation is not a political organization, but Cato Institute is."
No it's non-partisan, check the wikipedia entry for more details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute - flair1, on 03/15/2009, -7/+16Was it me, or is this guy a terrible writer? I can barely stay interested long enough to read a paragraph.
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