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132 Comments
- leopardhunter, on 03/25/2009, -21/+63It's a classic "tyranny of the majority" by the mob, combined with executive branch officials trampling over minority rights.
The situation calls for leadership. A leader in Washington could step forward and say, "Yes, this is bad, but we can't break contracts or we will end up as a third world country. Let's channel our energies into making sure this can never happen again, and getting the economy moving again."
Yet, no such leader steps forward. Because in Washington, no one is that leader.
And so our standard living could be cut in half. - Landthatilove, on 03/25/2009, -21/+58The government is getting exactly what they want out of this. As long as the sheeple have a common enemy to focus blame on, they wont notice that the real enemy is getting away with destroying the country. The AIG bonuses are a disgrace, but they are a drop in the bucket compaired to the trillions our current government is stealing from us, our children, and our childrens children.
- CasaWood, on 03/25/2009, -16/+42The smoke screen of AIG is disgusting. It was used to further attempt direct violation of our Constitution by 328 who swore to uphold it.
Related article;
http://www.examiner.com/x-4285-Salt-Lake-Nonpartis ... - BillE3, on 03/25/2009, -10/+32And then there are the contributions going back to members of congress. Money laundering. Give it to AIG so AIG can give some of it back.
Every member of congress involved should be up on violations of the RICO act. Organized crime on the highest order. And the voters put them there, and have been keeping them there. You get what you vote for. - inactive, on 03/25/2009, -9/+28http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/ ...
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -18/+37The disgrace is the fact that the government is responsible for this mess, and have turned capitalism into the scapegoat. Cowards and liars who should be afforded Dante's deepest inferno.
- cubicledrone, on 03/25/2009, -2/+13Will the "leader" be as concerned with union worker contracts as they are with contracts to pay bonuses? If not, then this is just more "screw them I have a Mercedes payment" *****.
The liberal/conservative thing has to stop. This country must stop this "I'm an American but the other side isn't" ***** and all get on the same side of the table. - Frankyfan3, on 03/25/2009, -6/+17I've had my auto insurance policy with AIG for over a year now.
This is being remedied shortly.
I can not rationalize sending them a check every month after learning of their business practices.
I'm jumping off this ship before it sinks. - aletoledo, on 03/25/2009, -1/+11I'm personally working under a retention bonus (not for AIG though) and I do feel mildly worried that something might affect it. It's possible that I could have wasted the past 6 months working for a place that is a dead end for me and have nothing to show for it. I past up a much better offer on two separate occasions because the bonus made this all the more worthwhile. Of course I'm not receiving millions, so I have my fingers crossed that it will never come down to affecting me in anyway, but I still do feel powerless before the government at this point.
- browe07, on 03/25/2009, -4/+13As much as I hate republicans, I have to give them credit for being BRILLIANT as spinning messes THEY CREATE into someone else's fault and pointing the finger at everyone but themselves where it belongs and having the sheeple baw in line with them as well as many in the media.
If only the Dems had as much tactical tenacity.
Damn, I was hoping both statements would be wiped out in a burst of energy. Now its just 2x the *****.
Reason > Bias - peacelvr, on 03/25/2009, -3/+12I agree with everything you say but think that the gerrymandering of voting districts helps keep these crooks in power. This is why ACORN and Obama's attempts at politicizing the census are so dangerous.
- Landthatilove, on 03/25/2009, -6/+15Never let a crisis go to waste.
- dalittle, on 03/25/2009, -5/+13I am more concerned with where all the real money went. The bonuses given were just a small part of the TARP funds given to AIG. A huge amount of money went from AIG to Goldman Sacks and now Goldman wants to return their TARP funds given to them directly so they will not be subject to regulations. WTF, and what is going on with all of the rest of this money?
- fury420, on 03/25/2009, -0/+8wait, the "real disgrace" regarding AIG was not the swindling, not the bad decisions, not the complete failure of the company, not the massive government bailout, not the massive retention bonuses for executives paid for in part by the government,
but the fact that the government that is now propping up AIG wants some of the money back is the disgrace?
holy *****, what kind of bizzaro world is this? - alais, on 03/25/2009, -6/+14The real disgrace is crying foul about 1/10th of 1% of the "bailout".
- 3nder99, on 03/25/2009, -0/+7You don't have hundreds of millions to pay lawyers with.
- ScottMitchell, on 03/25/2009, -2/+8Jesus Christ, then why the hell can the government break a land contract and take my house and land if it's in the way of a proposed freeway expansion? Or, heck, if it's in the way of a baseball stadium that some well-connected investors want to build?
- LibertyLady7, on 03/25/2009, -1/+7The 5th Amendment was meant to PROTECT us from this kind of Government abuse. And then, eminent domain became democracy's most effective tool against an individual's right to their own land. They basically said, the Government can take anything they want from any individual, so long as its in the interest of the masses, they just have to pay you FMV for it. Don't wanna leave? Tough *****. Welcome to the American Democracy.
- kemp34, on 03/25/2009, -2/+8The biggest outrage is the roughly $200 billion in taxpayer funds given to this failed organization and its failed counterparties. How about a freaking orderly bankruptcy?! Let the investors take the hair cut, NOT the innocent American taxpayers!
IT IS NOT THAT DIFFICULT. - allowners, on 03/25/2009, -1/+7Classic *****. The "tyranny of the mob majority" is a derogatory term for the common citizen. Do you all think you can continue to loot the country with your tyranny of the mob minority, and continue to third-worldize the nation? Good luck with that, there are enough lampposts for all of you.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -0/+6Getting dugg down? AIG trolls on Digg?
- pintomp3, on 03/25/2009, -3/+9More corporate apologizing from the Murdoch Street Journal.
- s0krat3z, on 03/25/2009, -0/+6Changing insurance companies is fine. But as far as the free market working, if that were true in this case, we could have let AIG go under. Had AIG failed during the current economic conditions, the last thing you'd be touting is "free market" when China becomes your new owner. There's a price for freedom - history of America 101.
- mystcnurse, on 03/25/2009, -0/+5We don't have true capitalism, and haven't had it for a long time. The odds are always in favor of the corporations. In many cases, we have socialism (like, in medicine, schools) - anywhere that capitalists have to compete with the government. If I want to open a school, and provide high quality education, I have to compete with the government schools who get public funding and are rewarded for minimal outcomes. Same in medicine. I'm a private MD, I want to open a practice. I have to compete with the state run hospital, which has tons of well funded clinics... plenty of staff, computer support, and, if they go in the red, the state just makes up the difference. Corporate welfare is not a new term. We're just calling it "bailouts" now... because it is so huge. Small private businesses cannot compete with huge corporations, who have plenty of money to lobby the politicians to make laws that give them even more of the edge. We don't live under capitalism. And haven't for a long time. Otherwise, it would work.
- rjey, on 03/25/2009, -5/+10Obamabots, roll out!
- catalysis, on 03/25/2009, -1/+6"Whatever its contempt for the upper middle class that acquires wealth through salaried work and bonuses..."
Wow, if this guy considers AIG executives "upper middle class", I can't imagine what he considers wealthy. - bacon_skoda, on 03/25/2009, -0/+5their insurance division is not part of this mess. but if it makes you feel good...
in the end, AIG will have sold off all the remaining good parts of it's business to pay off the TARP. - GovernmentsGun, on 03/25/2009, -4/+8And that is why, ultimately, the free market works.
- cubicledrone, on 03/25/2009, -0/+4"In America, if you work hard, you are good at what you do, get the right job, get lucky, and are in the right place at the right time, things can work out for you and you can hit it big."
So America is a game show? Yeah, that's about right. I'd add that it's also a theme park, but only for the few.
For the rest of us, In America, if you work hard, you are good at what you do, and get the right job you get fired and replaced by someone your manager has never met. - StaticThunder, on 03/25/2009, -0/+4Actually it is. If Wall Street can't regulate itself, and it has proven it can't, the people will regulate it for them. And if that means you can't make as much money selling derivatives that contribute nothing to the broader economy because you've figured out how to win at a zero-sum game, tough. I'd much prefer to see ten more people producing some actual, tangible product, then one more financial wizard sucking money out of the markets.
- StaticThunder, on 03/25/2009, -0/+4That contract was between employee and employer. I am neither, yet its my money you say AIG employees are entitled to. Personally, I'd prefer to see AIG go into bankruptcy, and be broken up and sold off to other companies. But I don't make the rules. And since money is liquid, and this company is on corporate welfare, congress can do whatever it wants to it because they own it now.
Union auto workers are forced to renegotiate their contracts all the time. I don't see why AIG executives are any different. - GovernmentsGun, on 03/26/2009, -0/+3Franky, s0krat3z, I'm not saying I disagree with you about the other points.
My point was that if one group has unsavory practices that the public doesn't like, people are free to switch to another group.
I, personally, would take that over the solution of the government, which is to introduce a gun into the situation and ignore the public. - fury420, on 03/25/2009, -1/+4actually yes, i would love the government to be able to alter compensation contracts with executives at large companies receiving government bailout.
If the company is losing money, who says the large executive retention bonuses are the one thing that cannot be scaled back? Somehow It's ok to layoff dozens of workers to reduce costs and make the company's balance sheet add up, but you talk about reduced pay for people being compensated to the tune of +500k a year and suddenly it is the end of the world. - inactive, on 03/25/2009, -2/+5Honest mistake, yeah Turbo... you said that about your taxes too.
- bacon_skoda, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3it's being use to prop up banks in eastern europe.
because they and everyone else bought these credit default swaps that were never insured, but they sure look real to these banks.
if AIG goes down, all hell will break loose in Eastern Europe.
and Europe. And US. In that order. probably. - StaticThunder, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3Yeah, only getting 10% of a million dollars that your company didn't earn is the same as a lynching. I'm so stupid, I forgot.
- InSearchOfTruth, on 03/25/2009, -1/+4no! don't do that...if consumers start dropping AIG the government will just give them more money to make up for lost revenues! What you do is not good for our society as a whole comrade!
- kingmanic, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3"I'm a former AIG employee and while I can't think of a better company for this to happen to, as an American who plays by the rules, I think what congress did is DISGUSTING. In America, if you work hard, you are good at what you do, get the right job, get lucky, and are in the right place at the right time, things can work out for you and you can hit it big. That is our system and it works (or at least it did until the Obama era/error came to fruition)."
Also an American thing is being unlucky and being at the wrong place at the wrong time and losing everything. It doesn't only work on the way up. How many Americans go bankrupt due to a car accident or illness. Actually until recently that was the #1 cause. Health costs. - Frankyfan3, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3I was wondering the same thing.
- StaticThunder, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3"Oh, you're definitely stupid."
Well you would know, seeing as how you have so much personal experience with it.
Not getting a reward for a job badly done, or having something taken that should not have been yours in the first place, is not the same as a punishment. Grow up.
AIG executives should be happy they have jobs at all Congress didn't have to give them ANY money, and can dictate exactly how its spent at this point. They now own AIG. - eir574, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3" These off the rail nuts in Congress should learn that it is UNAmerican to deny a citizen his right to lawfully obtained income and not be punitively taxed just because your're not popular."
Did the contracts that promised that money state that it would be paid even if the company went bankrupt? That seems unlikely. If my company fails, the taxpayers are not going to pick up the tab for any bonus I would have otherwise received. Why should I pay AIG's employees a bonus? - Paranor01, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3Yeah, the Rush/Republibots were here 1st. Time for the other side to speak up.
What a f'n joke to use "obamabots" & "Republibots" eh? - fury420, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3"our standard living"
who's standard of living could be cut in half?
the top 3% of americans?
oh... - eir574, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3The letter argues that it's ethical to use taxpayer money to pay bonuses. The person repeatedly says that the clauses of his contract that led to the bonus were reasonable, which implies that he doesn't even think they should have been written to exclude a payment if the only way that payment could be made is if the taxpayers footed the bill.
- Restil, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3well, if your contract stipulates that you will.... not all bonuses are tied directly to the overall health of the company you work for. The guy at AIG who successfully managed the housekeeping crew and came in under budget for his department is no less deserving just because the company as a whole is tanking.
- s0krat3z, on 03/25/2009, -0/+3I don't blame you in the least. I wish we could let them fail too. I wish we would let the automakers go under. If they can't design vehicles that people want, the market will dictate what happens to them. Unfortunately, right now it would also dictate what happens to a lot of people who have little or no connection to them as well. Saying the free market always works is an oversimplification. I wish they could disperse the bonuses up among the average hourly employees. Anything would be better than rewarding failure. And the hourly employee would be more likely to put it back into the economy since they actually need the money.
- Insightful, on 03/25/2009, -6/+9Wow, rightwings are really upsets about their constituents getting exposed!
Somehow, the company that ripped all of us off (AIGFP) is now worshipped as everyman' s hero. Oh, and don't pretend it is somehow the government's fault. Whether the government bailed out AIG or let AIG, it would have been catastrophic.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/03/ ...
However, when we try to manage the company we own 80%, somehow we are thugs? As if you own your company you will reward the accountant that ripped you off because he is smart and he works hard?
Not surprising this is from Holman Jenkins Jr. who writes editorials for a living (seriously, he has not done anything else with his life).
Check out this beautiful piece "Put Madoff In Charge of Social Security" where he said maybe Madoff was actually the good guy and maybe it was not a Ponzi scheme and the media and the governement are the ones with problems.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122947442947812429 ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122947442947812429 ... - govsucks, on 03/25/2009, -2/+5Your contracts, just like your life and property should be subject to the whim of the mob.....nobody knows better how to run YOUR life than a collectivist in Washington.
/s - Insightful, on 03/25/2009, -0/+2The same bizarro world that Madoff is the good guy and the media and government and you and I are the problem.
From the same editorial writer:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122947442947812429 ... - Halgy, on 03/26/2009, -0/+2The AIG execs that are getting that money had a CONTRACT for it. Perhaps it was a poorly written contract, one that shoudl have had the people's job performance factored in, but a CONTRACT IS STILL A CONTRACT!
If AIG just didn't pay them, they'd be liable for breach of CONTRACT and the execs could sue. It would be no different if any of you screwed up a sale and your boss simply withheld a month's pay. You wouldn't like it any more than these execs would. All in all, if AIG spends 0.1% of the money that we gave them to avoid the headache of counter-suing, then so be it.
Remember: there are no evil people involved in this. If 99% of you were in these exec's shoes, you would have done exactly the same thing. They are just looking out for them and theirs; just because they make more than you doesn't mean they have no rights. Nothing will be solved by shifting the blame. At this point it doesn't matter who started it; I only care who will finish it. -
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