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The Police State Is Right Here, Right Now

vtcommons.org — One of the most frightening realities of teaching college history is that most students rarely have a clue what fascism is. They know about Hitler and the extermination of Jews, but they see little connection with Nazi rule in the 1930s and 40s and the current political milieu in the United States.

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  • syroncoda, on 10/10/2007, -11/+35yeah... been saying that.
    • DavidBGie, on 10/10/2007, -32/+10Cam someone here describe how they personally were detained by the "police state" for doing nothing wrong? I bet not. These stories are BS propaganda. All of us would know if a REAL police state was in effect.
      • analogkid01, on 10/10/2007, -5/+29Isn't the point of a police state to not imprison *everyone* or even a *lot* of people, but to imprison *enough* people, with little or no transparency, to make everyone else afraid? If they imprisoned more people, you'd be upset - and they don't want you to be upset. They want you to be complacent. Looks like they've won.
        • heliox, on 10/10/2007, -11/+5Okay...who are we falsely imprisoning?
          • Corrosionx, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8How about Jose Padilla?
          • FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Ah, yes, Jose Padilla. The ONE AND ONLY NAME that anyone has been able to come up with to "prove" that we live in a Police state.
        • mdhauke, on 10/10/2007, -19/+7THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

          lol, you hippies have been saying that we've been living in a police state since 1960. Move to Canada.
          • HaywoodGiablomi, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10Hey, that's original. Did you write that or have help?
          • Xuvious, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6"THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!"

            Look! Another big government loving pseudo-con fascist pig just blew a gasket!

            Good!
          • hplasm, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Do you have that comment on a rubber stamp or something?
          • mdhauke, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1As "rubber stamped" as the old "OMG WE ARE LIVING IN A POLICE STATE!!!!" that's been said over the last 40 years. You'd think by now we'd be a larger North Korea.
        • Crusader1145, on 10/10/2007, -9/+5What exactly are you afraid of? That the police will bust down your door and take you away because you're a liberal? I'm no fan of the Bush administration but I find the notion that we're living in a "police state" more than a little kooky. The Soviet Union was a police state. China is a police state. The US is nowhere near that.
      • HaywoodGiablomi, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13Well I was taken to jail for an expired drivers license. Not suspended. Not revoked. EXPIRED. I thought that was a little harsh considering how they booked me. I was reading the entered details and the violation code # used indicated arrest for "suspended or revoked license." When I asked the booking officer to correct the mistake, I was told that they didn't actually have a code # for my particular offense. BTW, my dad's a cop -- different jurisdiction -- so I kept my mouth shut and limited my answers to "Yes, officer." and "No, officer." So I don't believe the arrest was to teach me a lesson on courtesy.

        Anyway, it's not necessarily about being locked up or tazed -- though THAT seems to be a bit too common lately. One aspect that alarms me most is the No-Fly List. You don't believe that's a little extreme? Especially considering the number of people on it and that no one seems to know how to get your name off the list? AND that the list is a big *****' secret... until you're at the airport trying to go on vacation or, worse, a business trip. How'd you like to have to call your boss or client with THAT piece of news?
      • superdoofus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5rnc convention here in new york. i was present as a camera-carrying green hat legal observer and was arrested by officers that would not reveal their names nor my infraction to warrant arrest. i was detained for 11 hours and released with no charges. my case (along with many other observers from that week) is currently "pending".
  • lOvOl, on 10/10/2007, -7/+181Many people don't know what fascism is, partly because it is vaguely defined and used as a catch all Godwin insult whenever someone disagrees with someone who has conservative views and the person doing the disagreeing happens to be losing the argument.

    Fascism can best be described by Mussolini himself who I believe actually coined the term when he was trying to invoke the idea of a New Roman Empire using one of its traditional symbols the fasces which was a bundle of rods tied together with the idea being roughly that alone a rod is weak, but united they are strong. Conceptually speaking this is no different than the "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" rhetoric we hear in the United States quite often when patriotic speeches are given by politicians.

    This "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" is not a bad concept per se, especially during wartime because if you have pretty much any other attitude, your side is effectively doomed to failure, but the idea of fascism usually takes things one step farther where sedition effectively becomes a capital crime that is treated the same as treason. If you question the actions of the government or their strategies, then you get locked up or worse. Part of Germany's downfall was largely the result of this as anyone who spoke up about Hitler's incompetence as a war leader, would soon have a good chat with Himmler and his pals. Ultimately, the executive of any nation is accountable to the people even though everyone in the government is under his command. If the executive is not accountable to the people, then they are a dictator and the "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" idea effectively becomes fascism if major industries happen to be privately collectivized (this was Mussolini's description).

    What is going on in Venezuela right now could be described as fascism except that major industries are being collectivized directly under state control with what appears to be a permanent executive who can rule by decree. In that sense Venezuela is actually communist because communism is in effect totalitarian socialism. Of course things never start out as full blown communism but they inevitably end up that way because totalitarianism is the never ending pursuit of collectivizing power which at the end of the road involves total state control directly in the form of communism, or indirectly in the form of heavy taxes levied upon the people to fuel the neverending war machine.

    I think what needs to be taught in schools is not necessarily what fascism or socialism or communism or syndicalism or one of the many other "isms" that were coined in political economic realm of the 19th and 20th century, but rather to be able to identify collectivism versus liberalism. Any system which says that the rights of an individual is less important than the state (or community) is effectively a form of collectivism. Any system where the state is seen as less important than the rights of the individual is a form of liberalism. The most extreme form of liberalism would of course be anarchism where nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do. Of course pure anarchy would be really cool if humans didn't happen to actually be human. On the other hand, communism is the most extreme form of collectivism in that the group itself is the only thing that matters and individuals can be sacrificed for the greater good through the will of the collective.

    One reason the United States has been such a relatively stable country compared to the rest of the planet over the last 200 years (yah we had a civil war, but aside from that), is that following the debacle that was The Articles of Confederation, the Constitution recognized that we needed a strong federal government, but at the same time recognized that the federal government should never trample on the minority rights of individuals (of course slavery was made an exception for practical concerns and women voting at that time in the world was unheard of). Amazingly, we almost never had a Bill of Rights because many people naively felt that the Congress was made of supermen (elites) who would always serve the common good. This kind of mentality is all too common with the elitists in Congress today. Patrick Henry (my favorite founding father) basically went insane and through sheer audacity helped push through what eventually became the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. He was the true libertarian of his time and without his efforts, I doubt the United States would of lasted more than a few decades before it ended up with a king or dictator or a civil war that would allow the powers of Europe to reclaim the Americas for themselves.

    The ignorance of much of America these days, especially among the young with regards to history and civic matters is frankly astounding if you ask me. I am not sure if this is true, but I saw on Bill Maher that he claimed that over 50% of Americans thought that the United States fought with the Germans in World War II to fight the Russians. To me, I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can have any frame of reference as to what is going on in the world right now if their concept of history doesn't even go back 60 years. I doubt these same people even knew about the Korean War, probably only know about a little about Vietnam based on what Hollywood dishes out, and probably have forgotten all about the Gulf War as well.

    Ignorant people are easily misled and maybe that is the way both the Republicans and Democrats like it these days, though long-term this is not self-sustainable as any nation which doesn't understand its past, is doomed to make good decisions for the future that are in its self interest. Now, I myself am a bit of a history nerd to say the least, but the degree of ignorance out there among pretty much everyone in America, even college graduates, is downright scary to say the least.
    • dukeeeey, on 10/10/2007, -7/+25fascism boils down to the few in control of many, not that different from communism.

      Mussolini defined fascism as the merger of corporations and the state, which is exactly what has happened in USA.
      • Smight, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12No he didn't . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
        Corporatism is just a subcategory of Fascism. Fascism does not need corporations to come into power or control. In every incarnation I've seen Fascism is almost synonymous with totalitarianism. The only difference I see is that in Fascism people willingly give up their power and think that having all aspects of their lives controlled is in their best interest where as totalitarianism does not require this.
        • wakananda, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Yes he did: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, because it is the merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

          He invented it, let him name it.
      • notque, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9It is exactly the same as communism. Bakunin warned of the dangers of the "red bureaucracy," which would prove to be "the most vile and terrible lie that our century has created." He was an anarchist, or in other words a libertarian socialist.

        There are classes in society. One of them is the elite class. They are in control right now. Another class is the intelligent class. They are subservient to power currently and their job is to do the bidding of those in power and they get many spoils. Your highly paid television pundit. A lot of book writers, etc.

        Well, Bakunin predicted that if the intellectual class was put into power it would be the worst form of oppression.

        That's quite astonishing as no one else that I have ever heard of has predicted the future with such clarity. It was brutal, and one of the first things they did was jail the Anarchists.

        Communism does not work. But there are other options to consider, and at least be open to research and discussion about.
        • Firehed, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Communism is a form of money management, just like capitalism. It has very little to do with the way the government treats its citizens, other than the fact that communist societies tend to be run as a dictatorship or something equally un-democratic.
        • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Thankfully, there is no danger of mistaking you for an intellectual.
          • notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It isn't important if I am an intellectual, it's important that we don't let me, or a group with me, or anyone like me tell you what to do. You can't blindly follow me, and if you see me start to take control, then you need to work with others to convince them not to follow me. Keep me aware.

            And that goes for smaller things than a revolution. We must be skeptical in all areas of life.

            Make sure that people are aware of the dangers.
      • Yez70, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Except with Fascism the state controls the corporations.
        In the US, the corporations control the state...
        The few times the US has drifted toward fascism, such as in WW1 and WW2 were the corporations and the people sacrificed themselves for state control with rationing, factories refitted and shifted to war production and about 16 million soldiers enlisted happily, it ended up being good for the country, the citizens and the world.
        This time, with the corporations in control, the only ones benefiting are the corporations and their owners.
    • Daedalus81, on 10/10/2007, -2/+38That was the most fantastic essay that I have ever read on Digg. Why can't people like your be our teachers?
      • Jaleho, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Because traditional schools require standardized tests to judge the effectiveness of the education, and true understanding of political, ethical, moral, or philosophical concepts, arguments and opinions like the ones wonderfully presented above can't be reduced to measurable correct or incorrect responses on a worksheet. They require two-way dialectics, debates or discussions, which a single teacher standing in front of 30 uninterested kids, under pressure to meet math,language and science standards to get necessary funding, can never hope to accomplish, no matter how good their intentions or abilities are. An open web forum, however, can achieve this.
      • mdhauke, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5"your" certainly is in dire need of a teacher.
    • damonic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Well said. Thank you.
    • SlvrEagle23, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8"...over 50% of Americans thought that the United States fought with the Germans in World War II to fight the Russians."

      Well sure, if you ask that question with that exact wording you'll probably get that response. Without the clarification "to fight the Russians" I would have said the phrase "The United States fought with the Germans" is correct only because the word "with" in that usage would not suggest any alliance.

      If that statistic is true, I have to wonder where these people are hiding. I find it astonishingly hard to believe that half of the people around me aren't clear on the general parts of history picked up around or before 8th grade. Surely these statistics are offset by the fact that somewhere in the country, there's a vast trailer park with several million residents...
      • rarson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5The problem is that Americans don't care about history. Knowledge of history seems to benefit those who are oppressed the most. America has sat on its fat ass for the past century, and its citizens no longer see the value in history. Look at the people who show up on "Jaywalking" (Leno's "stupid American" bit). It's pretty clear that most of those people have no interest in the subject to which they're asked and don't see any value in knowing the answers.

        Like, when you don't even know who Dick Cheney is, obviously you have no interest in the operation of your government.
      • HaywoodGiablomi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I watched and, IIRC, Maher said "50% of HIGH SCHOOL students" rather than 50% of Americans. Quite a difference and probably just an oversight and shouldn't detract from the rest of the post. I believe he [Maher] also worded the question to clearly mean that the Americans and Germans were united against the Russians.
        • duerra, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5And for any of us that went to high school and participated in surveys such as ones posing the question above, the vast majority of Americans should realize not to take those numbers with any form of seriousness, because high schoolers think it's absolutely hillarious to "fudge up" anonymous surveys.

          Like how when I was in high school, I was a black male living on an indian reservation who had herpes, and had unprotected sex at least 5 times a week with multiple partners.
      • Jpesci, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I believe a lot of American ignorance just comes from simply forgetting what we've learned over the years. At one point in time I knew where every country on the planet was, along with minute details about the civil war and the world wars. Now I couldn't tell you where Zimbabwe was, nor every country of the Axis powers. We simply just forget it over time.
    • rarson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I would consider fascism to incorporate the government into the patriot mentality. When you start doing everything for the government instead of its people, you are stepping over into the realm of fascism. It's kind of like a "blind nationality" IMO.
    • cypherz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Probably The Best. Comment. Ever.
      (Yours, definitely not my comment)
    • WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8lOvOl... Where did you come from, and how can we find or create more of you?

      I'm usually very let down when I begin to read something so long. I didn't even like looking at it. I started reading anyway, and that was one of the best posts I've ever read here.
    • arctic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I liked your comment.
    • raintheory, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3also people don't seem to notice the two giant fasci in the chamber of the U.S. house of representatives...
  • DesertDude, on 10/10/2007, -6/+67This is manifold what Osamah ever wanted to achieve. If he killed 30,000 (instead of 3,000, assuming he was solely responsible) it still would not be as much a triumph as stripping away the liberties of the US and turning it into a de facto fascist state where citizens are silenced, tortured and murdered in the name of the law and national security. Stop searching for him; he won. The real terrorists are in Washington. Those are the ones that can really hurt you now.
    • vertinox, on 10/10/2007, -2/+33If Osama attacked us because he hates our freedoms, he must be a really happy man now.
  • Clogs, on 10/10/2007, -15/+49The Decider: “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.”
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20 ...

    Invoking an external and internal threat is the first step on the road to fascism. And if there is no threat, the fascists will invent one.

    Naomi Wolf -- On Fascism in America
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00. ...
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/20/the-colbe ...

    Naomi Klein -- The Shock Doctrine
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kieyjfZDUIc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka3Pb_StJn4

    9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out
    http://www.interlinkbooks.com/product_info.php?pro ...
    Paul Craig Roberts: This is the most important book of our time. Distinguished national and international scientists and scholars present massive evidence that the 9/11 Commission Report is a hoax and that the 9/11 "terrorist attack" has been manipulated to serve a hegemonic agenda in the Middle East. The book's call for a truly independent panel of experts to be empowered to bring out the true facts must be heeded or Americans will never again live under accountable government.

    9/11 Vendetta -- Past, Present & Future
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4580078919 ...
    • bobthebruce123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Do you know where to find the full 'Shock Doctrine' video?
  • readthis, on 10/10/2007, -12/+65Fascism's pre-agenda is to:

    1. Dominate all forms of media
    2. Sway public opinion--spread false and mis-information using taxpayers' money
    3. Power, gain and immunity from crimes
    4. Use "War on Terror" as opportunity to destroy the freedoms of citizens
    5. Give large special interests whatever they want
    6. Bankrupt the nation--then the country's bond holders call the notes due and seize the assets--the country

    Sound familiar? From there it gets ugly. Once freedoms and liberties are lost they can only be regained by bloodshed.
    • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Those 6 items sound like the typical politician's list from bought sides....
      • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2*both
        • WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Looked like a freudian slip to me.
      • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4And remember the core issue in fascism is when corporate and government interests are intertwined as one in the same. The faux-two party system is nothing more than a diversion to keep you occupied with a false sense of choice.
  • Alegoo92, on 10/10/2007, -26/+16The fascism is not here: you have more rights than citizens of a fascist country could even dream of. What diggers need to realize is the distinction between our government, and the people who are running it. Most of you probably like our government, but many hate the leaders.
    Just because of that latter hatred doesn't mean that we live in a totalitarian dictatorship or w/e bias you're spewing. And just because the Bush administration is using scare tactics does not mean that the checks & balance system will fail and we'll descend into a police state.
    • GaiaAP, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11Maybe, but for how long? Especially if people are kept complacent by their peers telling them constantly how much worse things could get and how grateful they 'ought to be'. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean you don't have the right to demand better.
      • Rahodeb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2At the same time, calling what we have "fascism" is a bit like crying wolf. That's not to say we shouldn't fight to stop the current trend of bigger, more invasive government, but it cheapens the rational debate of the subject when the word fascism is flung around so carelessly. Call it what it is, talk about the facts. The truth is more powerful than the buzzwords.
        • holzp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Technically this article is about Wolf crying.
      • Alegoo92, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that things are very good in America. Quality of living is fantastic, and employment opportunities are very good. And because of the way our government works, it does not resemble fascism, and it'd be a near impossible effort to make it that way.
        • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Quality of living is fantastic, and employment opportunities are very good"

          For you - and thus, nothing else matters, such as the fact that real standards of living for the middle and lower socio-economic classes in the US have actually declined in recent decades, foreclosures and bankruptcies are skyrocketing, only the very rich or very poor can afford to go to college, and class mobility in the US is at its lowest in over a hundred years - in fact, the dominant determinant of your future income in today's America is your parent's current income. But, all is well in your isolated affluent bubble - or you've been sold on the Horatio Alger myth.

          Classic fascist enabler ideology. When they eventually come for you, it will be too late.
    • BelXul, on 10/10/2007, -5/+17How much of this freedom is only an illusion? Did WE the People overwhelmingly elect George to the Presidency? Or was he appointed by the Supreme Court after they shut down a recount in progress? Did we succeed at ending the Iraq war after voting the 'opposing' party into Congress? Are people really safer after giving up some freedoms in order to give the government what they wanted to protect us?

      What I'm getting at here is that a while raven can call itself a dove, it doesn't mean that it is.
      • regexp, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2No matter how many times you counted the ballots in Florida - Gore would of still lost. And he deserved to. He ran an awful campaign and couldn't even carry his home state. And the other thing - Bush is out in 15 months. He is not a dictator and our country has seen worse times.
        • Stormflux, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2So because Gore ran a bad campaign, you think that justifies illegally invading another country and displacing millions of people? That's just twisted. How about the people who didn't get a vote - the Iraqi civilians?
        • benedictkenny, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5"Bush is out in 15 months. He is not a dictator and our country has seen worse times."

          And then the average voter is convinced by the mainstream media to vote for Clinton, and so while Bush is out, Bush's Agenda, I'm sorry, Reagan's agenda, I'm sorry, the agenda of those conspiring with the National Socialists during WWII is still here.
    • bitcloud, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Given that I ACTUALLY consider what i'm going to blog about based on how much it's likely to put me on some kind of watch list, I'd say it's very real already
      • BullHurley, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4Nobody cares about your blog. Especially the government.
    • Ajajadude, on 10/10/2007, -10/+4Too bad you're being dugg down for speaking the truth. Ya, our CURRENT president may be leaning in this direction, but how is he supposed to continue pushing us that far once his term is up? Slowly, but surely, everything he's done that went unquestioned all these years is being undone by the courts and Congress.
      • Stormflux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Yeah yeah. We get it. You're a Republican and you think everything is fine. But I'll let you in on a little secret: you're gonna pee your pants when a Democrat takes the White House and inherits all those powers that Bush set up. All of a sudden you're worrying about being sent to a secret CIA prison because you write things that are now politically-incorrect on your blog.

        Still think everything's fine?
      • hplasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So now the Republicans are saying 'Don't worry, all the BAD stuff will be gone in a few months, and it will all be undone and back to normal' (Once the Dems are in)? Have you any idea what that says about The Republican Government? From Republicans?
    • pinchduck, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Wow, someone with sense on Digg!
    • willistg, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Moving towards fascism and already having arrived at fascism are 2 very different things though. Whether we're there is a lot more debatable than the idea that we are moving in that direction as opposed as away from it. So explain , if you would how there is no reason for concern that there are less freedoms for citizens today than there were. And since I'm sure we can all agree that we enjoy our freedoms, enlighten me as to where exactly your tipping point is. It is clearly not now, but what needs to happen in order for you personally to decide that we have arrived at fascism. And do you think that if we were to arrive at that point do you think you would be able to reverse it? Why?
    • cypherz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5It seems to me as though leaning towards (temporary) fascism is the response of the USA, and most countries when attacked. During WWII it was much more extreme. before Pearl Harbor, there was strong sentiment in this country (the USA) against becoming involved in the war. The PTB used (rightfully IMO) the attack to wage a giant propaganda program to "unite" the country for war. There were dissenting voices, but they were imprisoned or just squashed by the overwhelming support of the war in the popular media. It worked and after much travail, the Allies won.
      The current situation is little different, save perhaps that the enemy isn't a foreign power (exactly). This trend towards fascism will (I hope) dissipate wheen the perception of threat is gone. Problem: The PTB don't want the perception of threat to go away.
    • WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Most of you probably like our government, but many hate the leaders."

      Nope. Why make such a distinction? If anything, it would go the other way around for me. There are plenty of basically good people that do things resulting in horrible outcomes. It turns out that I don't really like basically good people who leave horrible outcomes in their wake, either. Why should I like someone who has no foresight?
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7My 70 year old Mormon mother wishes someone would shoot Bush....and she wouldn't step on a bug.
      My 72 year old father (divorced from my mother for 37 years, no connection) is afraid to discuss politics over the phone for fear of government wiretapping. By the way he is a doctor and rarely even has a glass of wine. He is not a radical at all.

      This is not indicative of a healthy nation.
      • bungoman, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1You father is paranoid and probably needs to be put in an old folks home.
    • enki25, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sounds like you didn't read the article. The point is we have freedoms now, but that the path we are on can only be changed right now, while it still does seem great. Once the process begins, it will be too late.
    • siszam, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When Clinton is doing the kind of wacked out, sinister things Bush is doing will you admit that it's fascism then?
  • caferrell, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16What is important to understand here in America is that public opinion is shaped by actors in the "private" sphere.
    Americans ideals, ideas and identity are shaped by mass media and advertising. So we have been prepared and continue to be propagandized by publicly held and traded companies. The shaping of our political opinions is done by private companies in collusion with the government, making this police state the perfect fusion of business and government that Mussolini dreamed of.
    There is no doubt that we have crossed the line into a police state reminiscent of National Socialism in Germany and Italy, and it has happened with the active cooperation of Wall Street. There is a give and take, there is a permanent dialogue between big business and government at all levels from Congress to the Administration down through all levels of the bureaucracy. The most insidious collusion is what occurs between lobbyists and the Congress. Legislation and long term policy is designed to benefit industry at the expense of our liberty and by the government's incurring incredible debt.
    This selling of our freedom is advocated by the major media, which is of course the mouthpiece of its advertisers and owners.
    If we expect to stem the tide of Nazism in America, we had better start by convincing as many people as possible to turn off the TV.
    • Ajajadude, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1SO, because big business lines the pockets of many of our elected officials, we've definitely crossed some imaginary line?
    • hplasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1TV. The first great WW2 (Axis) propaganda machine.
  • dukeeeey, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11Selling torture
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-554962241 ...

  • b3owulf, on 10/10/2007, -27/+7You're all absurd.

    Call I bury for absurdity?
    • gottadiggit, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8As long as you have your video games I'm sure everything is just peachy.
    • WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"Call I bury for absurdity?"

      Yes, call you bury for absurdity.
  • downst, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7How did current college-age students waste all their time taking "no child left behind tests" when they were in elementary school?
    • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I hope more people read your post, because it's 100% truth. The people taking that test have yet to reach college and most are now just reaching high school, if even that.
    • sazai, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I'm in college. We hit NCLB tests while I was in high school, and yes, we took them. Standardized testing was started in my state (IL) while I was in Kindergarten. Not as bad at the NCLB tests, but same idea.
  • mike17032, on 10/10/2007, -19/+23Its funny that the children on digg dont know what a police state really is, but continue to cry about how the US is one. Its not. Its not even close. Go visit a real one sometime.
    • regexp, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5Dugg up for actually having a clue.
      What is frighting to me is that a "history professor" can't understand the differences between 1930s Germany and the US today. She is doing her students harm for her lack of perspective and her bias There is very little in common with 1930s germany and 2007 US.
    • jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9I'm curious... have *you* visited a Police State other than the United States? I doubt it. Can you name one besides North Korea? I doubt that too.
      • Crusader1145, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I can assure you the US is NOWHERE near a police state. I was in East Germany in the 70's. Now THAT was a police state. Very scary, and I was a tourist, I could leave. I can't imagine living like that day in and day out. Your comment about the US being one is not only wrong but foolish and trivializes what people who live in actual police states like Cuba, China, Iran, etc have to deal with every single day.

        BTW, have YOU ever been to a REAL police state?
        • superdoofus, on 11/14/2007, -0/+3even one tenth of a slight leaning towards a police state in this country is enough to validate and affirm our rights as citizens to exert pressure or fight back.
        • MUFDVR3669, on 10/10/2007, -0/+01/10 of a slight leaning towards a police state. So that about 0.001% leaning towards a police state. Whippity dippity doo. Digg sucks with all these over sensationalist articles.
    • specs10, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12The point is that the US is heading in that direction. You're right, we don't live in a true police state yet, but with every PATRIOT Act, Military Commissions Act, and act of police brutality that happens, it gets closer and closer. Our fundamental rights are being undermined little by little. It's important to realize that before the country wakes up to find that they're all gone. It has happened countless times in history, why is the US any less likely to experience it?
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7If you see a dial go from 1-9 in six years, extrapolating that the dial will soon be at 10 is a rational conclusion.
    • enki25, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Go have your mom change your diapers and RTFA.
  • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -7/+8Now I just need to wait 4 years for the next edition of this article to read: "SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER: The End Of America--The Communist State Is Right Here, Right Now." Seems like just another "OMG we're the Hitler!" article that tries to spark interest by making overly sensationalized statements. I mean seriously, everything said has been done to death by politicians of both sides. Just 10 years ago we had the same ***** being said and that's why we have 8 years with republicans. With the ***** said for these past years, our next 8 will be with democrats, and the cycle repeats.
  • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5If this isn't a block submit, comment, and digg, I don't know what is.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Sigh. If a small fraction of the sum of things you don't know yet don't hesitate to pontificate about were a source of energy for anything but your own ego, we wouldn't have to invade foreign countries to feed our insatiable appetite for petroleum.
      • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1To quote a caveman:

        "Yeah I have a response. Uh... What?"

        Get over yourself.
  • imightbewrong, on 10/10/2007, -18/+12this is so ***** stupid
    • jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Why? You take the time to write a disparaging comment but lack the intellectual energy to provide logical structure to your negativity? You, sir, are the classic example of a fool. You are the fuel which feeds the fire.
    • iainc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1imightbewrong appears to be such a ***** dickwad
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You chose almost the right screen name - a bit conservative, but close.
  • horatiolust, on 10/10/2007, -15/+9If Stalin was to the "Left" and Hitler was to the "Right", to whom do you feel closer?

    Once more idiocy reigns supreme at Digg

    Sing along:

    Digg-nuts, Digg-nuts
    Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
    When they come for you
    Digg-nuts, Digg-nuts
    Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
    When they come for you
    • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Nobody naw give you no break
      Diggers naw give you no break
      Bloggers naw give you no break
      Not even you chidren naw give you no break
      Hey hey!
    • Kugellehr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9.......Thats kinda ignorant of you. Communism is to the "left" however stalin was basically a tyrant and a facist. If you look at the two regimes, they both kill their own people, both launch wars of destruction, both are considered evil, both were for the "worker"

      take a history class first before you speak.
      • horatiolust, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Stalin was a "Communist" dictator
        Hitler was a "Fascist" dictator
        I've taken a whole lot of history classes, fool
    • dime, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8left and right is pretty much an illusion solely reserved for simple minds and talking heads.

      there's authoritarianism & tyranny on one side and libertarianism & freedom on the other, with varying degrees of collectivism to spice things up.

      where do you fit in?
      • horatiolust, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Total libertarian - except - I am totally opposed to Islam - a political philosophy and the greatest threat to mankind and Western Civilization
  • Kershalt, on 10/10/2007, -17/+6dear God its a broken record WAHHHHHHH i dont like the way the goverment does things!!!!! If you dont like it then get the hell out, Compareing the US to nazis is beyond sick its wrong what those people did back then was not only vile and disgusting but to even compare the two is so disrespectfull. Ask any holocaust victim wether the US of today is anything like the nazis of the 40s and you will relaize how cushy we have it so stfu and learn to live with those things you cannot change or learn to do something about it whatever you do stop whineing.
    • frazw, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I'm not saying that the US is anywhere near as bad as the Nazis but Guantanemo Bay is a prime example of the lines of decency having been crossed. Crossing one makes it easier to cross another, which in turn makes it easier to cross another. It is always done under the banner of National Security and its always bit by bit just like the Nazis whose voters didn't believe they were evil (at least until they found out the atrocities which had been carried out in their name).
      Sure you have a long way to go before you are anywhere near as bad as them, but the things which are going on in America just now politically echo quite strongly the political decisions which were taken in Germany in the early days of the Nazi regime, that is before the killing began. I'm just saying don't let your government control you under the guise of national security. It isn't as important as humanity.
    • lajaw, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4we're actually more like the Nazi's of the 1930's.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I've started a collection to buy you some punctuation. I figure what you really need is a little perspective, but I'm not sure you'd know what to do with it. We do what we can.
      • hplasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man has little perspective.
  • catalysis, on 10/10/2007, -6/+13I think you guys are spoiled
  • imightbewrong, on 10/10/2007, -5/+16When the police do something outrageous and its all over the news/internet, thats when you know you're not in a "Police State". In a real Police State its not news-worthy
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6You are driving a car. You coming up on a bridge. The bridge is out. Your passenger says, hey let's stop the car before we get to the wrecked bridge so we don't die. You say, "hey, the pavement we are on right now is fine and we may never even get to that bridge" yet you are still moving rapidly and directly towards the chasm.
      • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You missed reading the article it seems. Many will argue that we're on the path, but this blogger says we're already one.
  • urinnerchild87, on 10/10/2007, -13/+15I love how people on digg comment on how we are becoming a police state, and that we are losing the freedom of speech. The irony is, that they are allowed to talk about it on digg. The internet is hardly anonymous, and if the government truly wanted to get rid of dissenters, why do you think that they haven't taken everyone of you guys down? You have freedom of speech right here. You criticize the government right here. And yet, none of you have anything to fear. Now if this was a police state, or anything near a police state, everyone of you guys would be in little black bags, taken to Guantanamo for "questioning." This police state ***** is just another fad, and is nothing but one sensationalist story after another, while all the while committing the crime that would get them arrested in a true police state. I wish some of you guys would use a little common sense, and realize what you are talking about, and how stupid it really is.
    • cramtod, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13I'd call herding protesters into "Free Speech Zones" is a loss of free speech.

      Check references at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
      • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2It's not a loss of free speech as long as we still have to hear them screaming. It's a loss of free speech when they're gagged, bound, and or heard from again.
        • reddikilowatt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So, putting the "Free speech zone" several blocks from the event is just fine with you then.
        • urinnerchild87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1yes, because otherwise they would be disrupting an event who neither wants, nor cares about their opinion. they have a right to say whatever they want, just as I have a right not to want to hear it. So allowing you to bother the people going to that event is infringing on their rights. now the conditions of some of these free speech zones are debatable, but none the less, be glad you live in a country that gives you that much. some would just shoot you on sight, others you would just disappear and never be heard from again. Once again this shows that we are no where near a police state.
    • minoss, on 10/10/2007, -8/+6Finally, some ***** reason. Thinking the US is anything near a police state is such a laugh. Want to see what a police state is? Go look at burma where killing of protesters is common, and those that are seen video taping or photographing protests or the military are immediately arrested or killed. This reminds me of affluent white kids crying about how hard their childhood was.
      • lajaw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4OR let's go back a few years to Ruby Ridge, or maybe Waco? Not to downplay the atrocities around the world, but get real.
    • superdoofus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3they're taking baby steps, kiddo.
      "rome wasn't built in a day"
      • urinnerchild87, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1no, i believe the exact words of the title were, The police state is right here, right now. correct me if im wrong.
  • shroominbal, on 10/10/2007, -8/+8face it most americans are stupid dumb ass. took me about half hour after the bush election to get it and I even didnt go to college. its not that they don't know they wish to ignore it . Once upon a time one actress in the 60's In the Isarel public TV could not understand how Jews went to the camp so easily so they arranged for him a sample when two other actress drop into the studio in the middle of life broadcast and told him to undress and gun point him. you should have seen how fast he did that. American sutdents? they will do it even faster its well know they are chickens and stupid as well. The also never invented nothing but usually stole it from other nations citizens.
  • oceanrain, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Nazism, Fascism, Communisim, Liberalism, Conservatism and on and on.. People today think of political isms as if they are rooting for a football team. "My ISM is better than your ISM." Truth be told, all ISMs just lead to tyranny, misery and death. The only joy I get from humanity these days is when I go pick up my toddler at day care and see all the toddlers playing together regardless of race, religion, color, or ISMs. It is a shame that these toddlers will have some ISM indoctrinated into there heads as they grow older. Screw all of you ISM ass wipes with all of your vapid ideas that constitute your ISMs.
    • ibookfast, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3looks like your still playing the game though, taking the side of the "non-ISM"s, hmm. I'm on the Radical Progressive Spiritual Utopian side, want to join? :)
    • Tetraca, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2We're people. "Can't we all just get along?" does not work because of the need for us to be better than everyone else, and to be part of a group. We are not creatures that are based on logic. We are based on emotion. We are not vulcans.
      • reddikilowatt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1See that's where you're wrong. We want to see a good, reasonable solution. It feels good to us. But it is hard to come to terms with that part of ourselves when we are constantly being told that we're all evil from birth and there's nothing that will redeem us other than submission to a "higher power" whether it be state, religion, or chemistry.
    • Wacer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I like the Greek Democracy in a sense that the Senators were common people from each region that were randomly selected. Once a persons term was up, another person would take there place. There was no life long politicians with all this political party *****. Either political parties need to be illegal or the United States needs a lot more parties.
      • reddikilowatt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Increase the size of the House of Representatives while we're at it. 435 isn't some magical number.
  • mal1964, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Greg Stillson: The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!
    Greg Stillson: Put your hand on the scanning screen, and you'll go down in history with me!
    Five Star General: As what? The world's greatest mass murderers?
    Greg Stillson: You cowardly bastard! You're not the voice of the people, I am the voice of the people! The people speak through me, not you!
    Greg Stillson: You put your god damn hand on that scanning screen, or I'll hack it off and put it on for you!
  • eagles2k3, on 10/10/2007, -16/+7Anyone that wants to compare the US to nazis is a retard...period.
  • Kugellehr, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10in 2003 in a history class i brought this up. I got in big trouble. I then made a website in web-class about it. Some teachers really thought it was interesting, others despised me for it. You'd think educators could see some sort of conection.

    and americans are just too ignorant and complacent
    • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2How dare people who studied, research, and teach this sort of stuff despise someone with your (little) amount of knowledge!
      • wakananda, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
  • holygram, on 10/10/2007, -13/+8Whoever wrote this article doesn't know what a police state is....do you really think he/she could've written that if we were in a police state?
  • sazai, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28The "problem" with fascism is, if you could see it coming, it would never happen. Do you nay sayers honestly believe that the people of 1930's Germany and Italy looked around and said "Oh, hmm. Fascism? That sounds like a GRAND idea!" Yes, Hitler and Moussolini were very popular in their respective countries because they were feeding a formerly starving people, but if you think that all those people felt that fascism was great idea and a perfect trade off for food, you're an idiot. It happened because nobody could see it happening and all the naysayers were told to stop whining and to leave the country. And guess what? A lot of them did and they survived. Fritz Lang, Albert Einstein, Bertolt Brecht...the list goes on. They saw it coming, people told them to sit down and shut up, they decided to leave, and they changed the world.

    Nobody ever wants to believe they let fascism come until its way too late and they can blame everyone around them. Just keep denying it as we slip closer because it'll make you feel better for doing nothing.
    • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Exactly. Like hindsight is 20/20. That is the only counter argument "we are nothing like Nazi Germany was". Are paths are very parallel, people just do not want to believe it.......they will see it when they look back on it in the history books however,.
      • WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Nah, their history books won't tell them that.
    • tetsuwan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Many of them did, that is why one of the democracy gauges used by the Economist in their study and ranking of the state of democracy in the countries of the world listed this item:
      (I paraphrase)
      "Is there widespread support for the idea that the country needs a 'strong leader' to govern it?"
      These kinds of believes are negatively correlated with well functioning democracies.
    • wakananda, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's obviously not fascism, because we're not eating sauerkraut or murdering jews or invading Poland. We're eating freedom fries, murdering Islamics and invading Iraq. It's completely different, you silly alarmists.
  • qwertywatcher, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16Im a Spaniard living in Canada and i have found most americans i chat with are under the beleif that the Americans won WWI and WWII many seem to think that they were at war with Russia and Germany and shockinly beleive that they took berlin when in fact it was the Russians.
    • Wacer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1What does this have to do with the discussion?
  • bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3Thanks for this submission. After the MEts collapse, I needed a good laugh.

    Again, the funniest part about this is that the peopel writing it are only writing it becuase htey KNOW it is *****. It what they said was true, they would be afraid to write it because there would be no reason why the government wouldn't make them disappear for it. It is not like anyone else in the world would miss them, or even notice that they were gone. So, these people, knowing that they can say what they want without the police stepping in, say it.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Go back to watching sports on TV.
  • dan222555, on 10/10/2007, -12/+6"...but they see little connection with Nazi rule in the 1930s and 40s and the current political milieu in the United States."

    LOL that's cause there is none you ***** moron. Talk about idiots....
  • ejpusa, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15Well I have to break out the RNC 2004 cages with barbwire on them image once again. Like an old record. We were Americans, we had no rights read, no lawyers, no one could tell what we were charged with, kept in beyond 24 hours. I had no food past day 1, only one cup of water. My total stay was 3 days. It happened right here folks, right in the middle of good old Manhattan. Who put them up? Not the NYPD, looked like private security firms to me (does Haliburton come to mind?). Almost 2000 of use went through them. To this day, the folks I show this too, STILL can't believe it happened just 3 years ago. Yours to ponder: http://slapnose.com/images/blog/0904/0904_pier57_4 ...
    • OswaldKenobi, on 10/10/2007, -13/+3I would have shot you dead, so consider yourself lucky, *****. You protesters caused numerous problems and infringed on the rights of New Yorkers with your actions. Bet you weren't too concerned about MY rights while you were blocking streets and spewing your ***** rhetoric. You're just typical liberal; self-centered and stupid.
      • NormalVisual, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9So you advocate murdering someone because you perceive that they inconvenienced you, and you have the balls to call HIM "self-centered and stupid"?

        Put away your e-peen, Internet Tough Guy. You're not impressing anyone, and simply showing that you don't have the first idea what the Bill of Rights is really there for. Do a little bit of research on "Guantanamo on the Hudson" as well - there were a lot of people arrested and held who had done nothing wrong, but I guess that probably doesn't you either.
      • Greymoon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yeah free speech, the right to assemble and protest is so un-american. Ever heard of a tea party in Boston dumb ass? Do nothing self-centered idiots like you are what is wrong with this country. Take your gun you have a right to own and just put yourself out of your 'me' mentality misery.
  • YoureAllSoDumb, on 10/10/2007, -19/+11America is not headed to facism anytime soon, sensationalist morons.
    • Socolco, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Obviously not a student of history. Fascism isn't going to be "announced on NBC" nor is going to be an official declaration by the government.
      • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Obviously just another sensationalist person who is not a student of history either. Not everyone feels that a few arrest of rowdy people and the tasering of some dumbasses forms a police state when 99.999999999% of the rest of the people walk away just fine.
        • wakananda, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Your percentage denies the existence of even a single tasered "dumbass."
          • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So call it 99.999983333333333333333333333333, because for 300,000,000 people, that equates to 50 people total in the end.
      • Anwar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Thank you for making this point Socolco. Too many people forget that American media is owned by companies that profit from war (eg. NBC)
  • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
    domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

    6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

    9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
    • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I count 13 out of the 14..........RUT ROH!
    • geekee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2That describes Iran pretty well.
    • bonhoeffer, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0Interesting to history buffs, but irrelevant to current politics. Fascism was destroyed decades ago.
  • whorunbartertwn, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11Go tell someone in Burma you're living in a police state.
    • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Great argument......someone else has it worse so you are AOK!
      • minoss, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Saying they have it "worse" should be nominated for understatement of the year.
        • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3That really is not the point. To look back onto history Nazi Germany had it better than much of the world did. Small dictatorships with harsh rules were everywhere. Does history judge evil by harsh countries with little to no effect on the rest of the world, or do they judge imperialistic domination regimes? Taking nothing away from the evil inside of Burma, but they are not taking over their neighbors and oppressing them.
        • whorunbartertwn, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2We're not AOK because someone has it worse, we're AOK because we enjoy a freedoms not associated with a police state... the Burma reference was an example of what one is. I'm amazed that people who may freely walk back and forth with a "Bush sucks!" t-shirt in front of the White House can spend so much time crying about living in a police state.
        • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Then tell it to the Germans, the Italians the Spanish...all excepted their fate over time because of your exact argument.......We will never learn from others mistakes...ever because of this same type of attitude.
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Do you even realize what a ridiculous argument that is?

      When an normal person see's the sun setting, they understand that nightfall is next.
    • Anwar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'd love to go to Burma (Myanmar) but the U.S. won't let me cross the border.
  • Karmashock, on 10/10/2007, -9/+8Why do people comment without even reading the articles? You're all sheep spouting "I hate bush" blah blah blah... Hey, I dislike him too. But seriously, read the damn article.


    This is another kooky article from another kooky source. This site literally advocates that the state of Vermont secede from the union... that is split off and become it's own country. If you cheer for the people in tinfoil hats it makes it look like you're one of them.

    Every time you cheer for this sort of thing, it makes Digg look bad and all of you look stupid. Bush doesn't even come into this... it's about Digg and it's users. We're supposed to be open source link sharing and editors. Well, that would require reading a bit of the article before you start agreeing with it.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Attacking the messenger is a logical fallacy. Address the substance of the argument, if you can.
    • BuboTitan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's funny you got dugg down for telling people to read the article.
  • kaiser44, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9This article could be applied to AL GORE and his global warming agenda.
    Leave out Bush and Hannity and look at the tactics and devices this man and his minions use to get the message out it falls in line with the Naomi Wolfe thesis.
    • Pake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It works for almost all of the past presidents of the USA and almost all leaders of other countries.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Is there a script on LGF or somewhere that generates these nonsensical nonsequiturs?
  • Valo, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1So after the patroit act got passed and Bush had an overwhelming majority of support I thought that Congress was going to pull something out of Escape from L.A. and elect Bush as Perminate Prez. Now I'm thankful that it didn't happen thankfuly Bush didn't have these steps inplace before it happen or we maybe we would be saying Sighile to G.W.
  • mclumber1, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10I've been to police states. States where you really do not have freedom of speech, press, or religion. States where firearms are only in the hands of the police and military. States where they can arrest you and detain you indefinately forever if they chose. Trust me, America is not a police state. You just hate the current administration, and perhaps rightfully so.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4You are missing the point. Your argument is like saying, "I've seen cars that have crashed. This car is still driving. Therefore, you need not drive with your eyes open, and you can safely ignore any looming brick walls, red lights, or "BRIDGE OUT AHEAD" signs. Just close your eyes, and pray, and trust our leaders to do what's best."
      Every freedom enjoyed in the US was gained as the result of great struggle - we didn't pop spontaneously from the forehead of George Washington with women's suffrage, civil rights and child labor laws.
      What kills me is that the very same people - the same posters here - who rant the loudest about how "socialist liberals" want to take away our freedoms, are the very same people who dismiss fundamental civil rights with a hand-wave, when it is a right-wing government doing the taking away.
      Makes one a bit suspicious about the sincerity of the "libertarian" bravado; almost makes one wonder if there aren't authoritarian wolves hiding under all that libertarian and "paleo-conservative" sheep's clothing.
      • ThatGirlTasha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Wow, are you ever painting with a broad brush! Who says this guy is a libertarian? I do agree that he is missing the point, and I like your analogy. But as for your suspicion of "libertarian bravado" it is usually the libertarians who consistently oppose the slide toward totalitarianism/authoritarianism whether it is being done by Republicans or Democrats. Libertarians are like the horrified passenger in the back seat who has no ability to take over the wheel and can only scream at the two dumb asses up front to pay attention to where we are going. The libertarians have their eyes open no matter who is driving and warned us when Clinton was violating the Constitution and attempting to rule by decree ("stroke of the pen, law of the land, kinda cool"} and then it was libertarians, such as Ron Paul, who warned us when Bush began to do the same (and far worse). If anyone is driving blind it is the mainstream left and right. When out of power, sitting in the passenger seat, each can see the evil committed by the other team. But when in power, behind the wheel, each goes as blind as Mr. Magoo and refuse to see the evil committed by their own party and how they are driving further down the same road toward tyranny. It really does not matter which is behind the wheel, as they both continue blindly on the same course. And God help us when they go "bipartisan" and steer us toward authoritarianism with both parties mashing down on the gas.
  • amatlis, on 10/10/2007, -6/+8A country with a two party system that routinely changes leadership is not a police state. A country where you are free to criticize the administration without any fear of being arrested is not a police state. A country with a functional system of checks and balances, the freedom to elect your own candidates, and a legal system that protects your free rights is not a police state. I really don't understand diggers. Why aren't you crying about Burma, Tibet, Darfour, Venezuala? Let me guess, the same people who say the US is a police state would probably say Castro's Cuba is a better system than the US. I just don't get it, are people on digg really ignorant or just maliciously hateful of our country?
    • thanakar, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1You could not have said it better. In a true police state DIGG couldn't exist because the government would have shut it down. They just have no clue how ironic their pathetic whining is.
    • bonhoeffer, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Too many diggers are ignorant and maliciously hateful.
  • AreaMan, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3I was stopped for nearly 8 and a half minutes at Canada customs for a random vehicle search last night on my way back from some at-par-(woot)-late-night-US-WalMart-Jack-in-the-Box-fun.

    Please watch for my upcoming article on the police state of Canada soon.
    • FreakyD, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3You're a ***** idiot. They should have arrested your ass and sent you to a place in the world where it IS a police state. You would kiss the ***** ground when you got back.

      Anyone else tired of listening to morons?
  • redd2600, on 10/10/2007, -6/+8Digg is overrun with ignorant hippies.
  • geekee, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5FDR imprisoned US citizens just because they were Japanese. He also was spying on transatlantic phone calls. The way WWII was won was by targeting enemy cities, causing mass civilian casualties. Things have gotten better since then, not worse.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Thank you for reminding us that before the "B-b-b-but Clinton" Bush apologist crowd, there were the "B-b-b-b-but Roosevelt" McCarthy-era apologists.
      • Mav848, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Your vague, poorly reasoned counterpoint doesn't do as much to discredit him as you hoped. He's absolutely right.
        Or are you going to pull out those 'atroticities' that are being touted by MacBeth and those other phony soldiers? Yeah, that's a reference to Limbaugh. You Leftist Whiners were way offbase on that misquote. But I'm sure you're ignoring that fact as well since it doesn't fit your agenda.
        • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11) You responded to another comment of mine on this very page with "Ad hominem counterpoints don't make you any better." How ironic.

          2) The point you conveniently miss is that responding to a wrong with "but Mommm, Johnny done it first" is both childish and logically fallacious - two wrong (or seven thousand) do not make a right. Since you are unable to make a cogent argument in defense of those who would rob us of our basic liberties, you resort to insults and nonsequiturs in a rather unimpressive attempt to deflect attention from the real issues.

          Must suck to be in a position to defend the indefensible - no wonder you find yourself flailing about.
      • kindpastor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2FDR was a Fascist. If you disagree with this point you have to be prepared to say that a man who threw people in jail for disagreeing with him, put millions of Americans in Prison camps and routinely violated the constitution was not a fascist. And you know something, I think you will, because as far as you're concerned, pissing all over our rights and freedoms is OK as long as its done in the name of helping the poor and not in the name of "corporate greed" or some other "conservative" ideal. And here's a clue--Fascism will not come to America through some obscure conspiracy of the top corporations, it will come to America when people like you hand the government a crap load of power so that it can "fix" a number of social ills and "punish" the big bad corporations (at least the ones who don't pay their lobbying dues).
  • floatingpoints, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3What really shows people's ignorance is when you compare the current administration with the Nazis, and people are quick to go "OMG YOU LOSE! GODWIN'S LAW LOLOLOL"

    ...instead of taking a step back for just ONE second and realize the connection is very real. While history doesn't repeat 100%, the circumstances for rise to power and manipulation of an entire nation under false patriotism is certainly a recipe for disaster.. as we've seen for the past 6 years.

    It's like people are trying to purposely be stupid and ignorant. Makes me wonder what the ***** drugs everyone is on that makes them so goddamn dumb.
  • bonhoeffer, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3So left-wingers who have defended the likes of PRC, Cuba, and Nicaragua for decades should feel right at home. The brave new world they longed to embrace has arrived.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The world is more complex than your simplistic binary dogma.
      • Mav848, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Ad hominem counterpoints don't make you any better.
        • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1An ad hominem is an attack on the person. I made no reference to the person. I attacked the person's ideas with a substantial point. That is the essence of legitimate argumentation.
          Your comment, on the other hand, is both personal in nature and devoid of substantive rebuttal.
          • ssn697, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"I attacked the person's ideas with a substantial point. That is the essence of legitimate argumentation. "

            Still looking for you to have a single valid, sound, cogent argument. Perhaps you don't understand the essence of argumentation. Here is a word to add to your vocabulary: counterexample. Anyone can point out logical fallacies. You seem pre-occupied with the quest. Providing valid counterexamples seems to escape your grasp regularly.
      • kindpastor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Just because a statement is simple doesn't mean its not correct.
  • kpezzy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2i know im upset about the status of this country in other people eyes
  • drexl, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2"Many people don't know what fascism is, partly because it is vaguely defined and used as a catch all Godwin insult whenever someone disagrees with someone who has conservative views and the person doing the disagreeing happens to be losing the argument.

    Fascism can best be described by Mussolini himself who I believe actually coined the term when he was trying to invoke the idea of a New Roman Empire using one of its traditional symbols the fasces which was a bundle of rods tied together with the idea being roughly that alone a rod is weak, but united they are strong. Conceptually speaking this is no different than the "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" rhetoric we hear in the United States quite often when patriotic speeches are given by politicians.

    This "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" is not a bad concept per se, especially during wartime because if you have pretty much any other attitude, your side is effectively doomed to failure, but the idea of fascism usually takes things one step farther where sedition effectively becomes a capital crime that is treated the same as treason. If you question the actions of the government or their strategies, then you get locked up or worse. Part of Germany's downfall was largely the result of this as anyone who spoke up about Hitler's incompetence as a war leader, would soon have a good chat with Himmler and his pals. Ultimately, the executive of any nation is accountable to the people even though everyone in the government is under his command. If the executive is not accountable to the people, then they are a dictator and the "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" idea effectively becomes fascism if major industries happen to be privately collectivized (this was Mussolini's description).

    What is going on in Venezuela right now could be described as fascism except that major industries are being collectivized directly under state control with what appears to be a permanent executive who can rule by decree. In that sense Venezuela is actually communist because communism is in effect totalitarian socialism. Of course things never start out as full blown communism but they inevitably end up that way because totalitarianism is the never ending pursuit of collectivizing power which at the end of the road involves total state control directly in the form of communism, or indirectly in the form of heavy taxes levied upon the people to fuel the neverending war machine.

    I think what needs to be taught in schools is not necessarily what fascism or socialism or communism or syndicalism or one of the many other "isms" that were coined in political economic realm of the 19th and 20th century, but rather to be able to identify collectivism versus liberalism. Any system which says that the rights of an individual is less important than the state (or community) is effectively a form of collectivism. Any system where the state is seen as less important than the rights of the individual is a form of liberalism. The most extreme form of liberalism would of course be anarchism where nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do. Of course pure anarchy would be really cool if humans didn't happen to actually be human. On the other hand, communism is the most extreme form of collectivism in that the group itself is the only thing that matters and individuals can be sacrificed for the greater good through the will of the collective.

    One reason the United States has been such a relatively stable country compared to the rest of the planet over the last 200 years (yah we had a civil war, but aside from that), is that following the debacle that was The Articles of Confederation, the Constitution recognized that we needed a strong federal government, but at the same time recognized that the federal government should never trample on the minority rights of individuals (of course slavery was made an exception for practical concerns and women voting at that time in the world was unheard of). Amazingly, we almost never had a Bill of Rights because many people naively felt that the Congress was made of supermen (elites) who would always serve the common good. This kind of mentality is all too common with the elitists in Congress today. Patrick Henry (my favorite founding father) basically went insane and through sheer audacity helped push through what eventually became the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. He was the true libertarian of his time and without his efforts, I doubt the United States would of lasted more than a few decades before it ended up with a king or dictator or a civil war that would allow the powers of Europe to reclaim the Americas for themselves.

    The ignorance of much of America these days, especially among the young with regards to history and civic matters is frankly astounding if you ask me. I am not sure if this is true, but I saw on Bill Maher that he claimed that over 50% of Americans thought that the United States fought with the Germans in World War II to fight the Russians. To me, I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can have any frame of reference as to what is going on in the world right now if their concept of history doesn't even go back 60 years. I doubt these same people even knew about the Korean War, probably only know about a little about Vietnam based on what Hollywood dishes out, and probably have forgotten all about the Gulf War as well.

    Ignorant people are easily misled and maybe that is the way both the Republicans and Democrats like it these days, though long-term this is not self-sustainable as any nation which doesn't understand its past, is doomed to make good decisions for the future that are in its self interest. Now, I myself am a bit of a history nerd to say the least, but the degree of ignorance out there among pretty much everyone in America, even college graduates, is downright scary to say the least."


    The best digg comment....ever...Kudos to you.
  • GrantTLC, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5The article may be a touch alarmist, but if you nay-sayers and scoffers can't see the damage happening to your country and the downward slide it has been on since the 1990's then you really need to step outside the country and watch it from an external viewpoint for a few years. Fascistic corporates are at work in your country, removing freedoms little by little, controlling the populace, waging war on other countries for profit, terrorising and torturing innocents...you ask why America suddenly has no friends in the world?

    Because we're all more than a little worried about what she is turning into: A totalitarian, war-mongering bully, with nukes, detention camps, horrible new electromagnetic weapons...and a very palpable will to use them.
    • kindpastor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You're absolutely right--its the corporations that are taking away our freedoms they're the ones with the power to make and enforce laws...oh wait, no thats the GOVERNMENT I'm thinking of. Now I remember the corporations can only persuade unless they get the GOVERNMENT to enforce something at gunpoint.
      • GrantTLC, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0You really think there's a difference between the corporate powers and the govt any more?
  • Leo21k, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I'll start to worry if and when they stop of us from being able to talk crap about the government over the internet.
    • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You just spoke volumes......of ignorance. But ok, let's play out your reasoning. So when you are no longer allowed to express dissent, then you will worry. Then what? Please realize that you just said that you would wait until it is too late to take action......to take action?
    • akula696969, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So as soon as they take everyone of your rights away you will then start to complain??? Too bad it will then be too late.
    • rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Then it will be much too late.
      One would think a patriotic American would start to worry the moment his or her freedoms are threatened, particularly by those sworn to protect them from "enemies foreign or domestic."
  • BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4To those who haven't noticed our freedoms being taken away, and/or feel that this is being blown out of proportion, a little analogy:

    You are driving a car. You coming up on a bridge. The bridge is out. Your passenger says, "let's stop the car before we get to the wrecked bridge so we don't die." You say, "Hey, the pavement we are on right now is fine and we may never even get to that bridge" yet you are still moving rapidly and directly towards the chasm.
  • meechums, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I find it amusing that since we aren't in a state of extreme obvious fascist rule, and that we still have a good number of our freedoms, that somehow people decry this article as alarmist and unrealistic. The world's not in a state of black and white, guys -- amazingly there are shades of grey, some of which can be warning signs.
  • mdollarsign, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2wrong...buried
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