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The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen
afterdowningstreet.org — By David Swanson A new collection of essays edited by Mark Crispin Miller called "Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008," tells the story better than any single source I've seen yet. The Supreme Court stopped a recount in Florida in 2000 that would have made Al Gore president. This is not speculation. T
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- LumpyRevolution, on 04/20/2008, -1/+7The main stream people won't have a clue. They will simply follow all the other lemmings into this mass jump int oblivion all the while the few who know the truth are doing everything they can to wake them up... Are we seriously this stupid? I think the answer is undoubtedly "yes". If we were truly thinking individuals would we not be looking at anyone but the media's favorite 3? If you talk with anyone in the Philippines or Australia or even in Japan, they know more about what is happening in this country (I mean REALLY happening) than we do. We think we are so smart. We thing we are so omnipotent. We are in sad shape and in need of emergency aid. There is nobody left to give it to us and we let it happen all by ourselves. If we don't take back this country NOW we might as well just give up and kill ourselves now.
- MCollinsScoop, on 04/20/2008, -2/+1LumpyRevolution, I agree with most of what you say but differ on one point. The citizens of this country are more than aware of the lousy election system in place. In two Zogby polls in 2006, these results came out. 40% of likely voters in Pennsylvania thought 2004 was "stolen." In a later Zogby poll of 1018 registered voters nation wide poll, 53% has some (22%) to serious (30%) doubt that the 2004 presidential election results were fair and square. Add to those folks, the 40% who don't vote because they think it's a rigged system and you've got a majority.
The same for Iraq, a majority opposed it going in and, within a short period of time, a majority opposed it. The people get it and do so without any mainstream media help. That doesn't change the perception that somehow we're complicit but the reality is, given the total control of information, few would support this madness if they had just half of the information available.
Taking back the country NOW is 100% on target. It's that time and it may be the only time for years to come (and then it will be too late).
Michael Collins - baatezu, on 04/20/2008, -0/+4For the sake of argument lets assume a couple of things:
1. Certain individuals in influential positions determined the outcome of the presidential elections.
2. These same people, in cooperation with the media, blur the reality of the millions of people glued to their TVs, in an effort to sway public opinion regarding important issues (reasons to go to war with Iraq, etc)
3. due to an overwhelming suspicion of dirty tricks, Americans investigate and uncover the dirty deeds of these people.
4. Again and again irrefutable facts prove illegal activities by both our political leaders and by the media.
So then what happens? nothing. The people in power will still be in power. They will continue to manipulate the populace, creating even more transparent trickery. It has happened throughout history and it will happen again.
Imagine living in Soviet Russia. The media is completely controlled by the government. Every single newscast is just a reflection of the ruling party's talking points. The entire political and legal systems are corrupt. Stolen elections, lying, manipulation, misdirection, etc. The Russian citizens aren't stupid. they know that its all a sham, but what do they do? nothing. How can they. They are just ordinary people against a ruling military. They can hold demonstrations, protests, etc. but that all still means nothing. those in power are still in power.
Knowing that anyone in a powerful, influential, corrupt position will most likely use all his power/influence/corruption to stay in that position, the only way for true change is through revolution. Which means many, many lives lost and probably the destruction of the society's infrastructure.
Same thing is happening in America (for sake of argument). Do you really think that the American people in this day and age would rise up physically against our government? No way would that ever happen. The administration tested the waters. A little lie here, a little scandal there, and wait. nothing happens. so they step it up. more lying, more corruption, more manipulation. Still no blow-back. So why stop? If Bush can do anything (including lying about information that starts a war that kills hundreds of thousands of people) and not have to fear any reprisals (even Pelosi said impeachment was completely off the table). Then why stop?
The corruption will continue, the lies will continue, the manipulation will continue. and it wont matter if 99% of the people mistrust those in charge. What are they going to do? vote them out? they are the ones counting the votes......
The ONLY solution I have come to is that people have to look at the local level. the establishment cartel can not reach its tentacles into every local election. And the local political positions are the sleeping elephant in this equation. Already we are seeing stories of local dissent. states refusing to accept the Real ID, California allowing prescription marijuana, etc. I do not see federal shock troops marching into smalltown USA and forcing federal laws on the local population. there simply aren't enough shock troops.
SO - my message to anyone reading this, is find the issues that you truly care about, and find a local politician that is willing to stand up to the federal government on those issues. If you cant find one, then run for a position yourself. City council positions are a lot easier to get than you think.- JDenigma, on 04/20/2008, -1/+3baatezu
Excuse me while I now go slit my wrists.
j/k ;-)
I feel so jaded and cynical about everything that sometimes I wonder why I haven't already done that. Seriously though, I hear what you're saying and there is merit to what you're saying. I'm not one of these people who is a cheerleader for either party, who is so naive as to think a simple change of faces in Washington is going to suddenly make the world right again.
I can't stand Bush and I didn't vote for him either election, but sometimes it seems many of the people here on digg actually think history started with Bush and think the downfall of government started with him. This growth of government and the corruption and usurpation of the Constitution has been on a slow, gradual, steady course, with some sudden spikes during times of "crisis", over about the last century and a half. So this is nothing new. The government under the Bush administration has just been merely exacerbating the problem and accelerating the growth of government. Even if it had been about any other politician in the White House at the time of 9/11 instead of Bush, we would still see these problems because it is the very nature of government in times of perceived crises, whether real, imaginary, or exaggerated, to use the "crisis" as an excuse to accelerate the growth of the State. See "Crisis and Leviathan". So this is not an issue about the cult of personality worship in thinking that the problem is merely one man alone. We need to start thinking in terms of ideas and philosophy, not people. Nothing is going to change for the better in Washington in 2009 whether it be McCain, Clinton or Obama. They're all politicians and they're all the same in principle and they all will be cogs in the wheel of the state and will be subjected to the corrupting influence of the power they will hold including the newfound powers they will inherit from the preceding president. That does not portend well for us. Please, for any of you who are fanboys of any of the 3 left in the presidential race, give some calm, rational thought to that.
baatezu, I share some of your cynical outlook there about what lies further down the road for us. I'm sure I'm probably even more cynical than you. You'll soon see why. I can see some merit there in what you say about local activism and local elections. Of course I'm to the point now where I've given up altogether at voting, at least at the federal level anyway. I can't stand local politics just as much as federal politics. They're both very intrusive and tough to fight. One reason why I think there may be at least some merit to your bringing up local elections is for the simple fact that very few people even bother to turn out to vote in local elections. They typically have a very small percentage voting. I think it's common where it doesn't even approach 50% unlike federal elections which at least get that high of a turnout. So in that respect your vote in a local election would have more weight to it. Of course I feel dirty altogether now about voting period. It just disgusts me with the way every little thing about our lives is made political at the ballot box where someone else can rule my life just with their vote. Voting as a whole is also becoming more suspect with questions and allegations about vote rigging. You have to really wonder where we're headed when even the ballot box starts to lose credibility. The writing is on the wall.
I for one will not be voting in the 2008 election. Why should I when the one man who I saw as a rare exception, Ron Paul, is most likely not even going to be on the ticket? There's no point to it for me. Then I'll get assholes who will knock me just because I still don't go out to vote in spite of that. It's disgusting how politics makes people become so ugly.
It's true also in what you say about there being movement afoot at state and local levels as in those examples you pointed out. There is a brewing revolution in N.H. with the free state project. So yeah, as you brought up there, people are resorting to more local action and decentralization. The federal government at this point is a lost cause. The whole damn system and the process is so corrupted and rigged with the duopoly parties, the process of selecting candidates, the ballot box and all its questions and the big media perpetuating the whole damn mess. What's a person to do? I will second you there on taking more local action.
You also notice how more and more you're hearing people utter that taboo S word......Secession. You see it gain more prominence in more states lately and personally I would say, keep your eyes on N.H. It wasn't that long ago where people would have really thought you were crazy for daring to mention that. Well, most people still would, but it's gaining more mainstream acceptance lately. I think the only hope at this point, lies in secession. I hope N.H. goes for it and as you said....... "I do not see federal shock troops marching into smalltown USA and forcing federal laws on the local population. there simply aren't enough shock troops." ............ You might be right about that and I hope the federal government wouldn't come down upon the people of N.H. or any other state that would attempt that. If they were to come down upon N.H. with an iron fist though, I wonder if the revolutionaries of the free state project should do exactly what the man at Tiananmen Square did. That might be the best course of action. It would be nice that should a real revolution breakout, that it preferably be a peaceful, nonviolent one, if at all possible. Violent revolutions don't normally end well. I could see the violence as a last resort if people are backed into a corner like a frightened animal with no way out and must use it in instantaneous self-defense, but we should try to avoid it as much as possible. A violent revolution would likely create a power vacuum where when it is all said and done, you wind up with the same thing anyway, as someone else will just take power in that power vacuum. I don't know how we could transition to liberty. It seems very hard to envision.
You're beginning to see now I'm sure as to why I'm likely more cynical than you. Well, here's the cherry on top of the sundae for you. I personally think that we're stuck in a dilemma in which there seems to be no way out, except for perhaps one course of action. Here's my grim outlook. I'm sure many will think I'm being alarmist and paranoid. I said that secession might be the only hope at this point. Well, I'm not even so sure that that will be successful. I think voting is a lost cause. Too many of the electorate who vote, are just so misinformed and desensitized by their media and they greatly outnumber those like me and they will simply cancel out my vote. At the point where government is now with how big and intrusive and corrupt it is and the rate at which it is now expanding, the pace of it greatly overwhelms the slow, incremental process of voting trying to work against it. Voting is after all a slow working process that does things incrementally. That is not going to work now at this point with how quickly government is now expanding. One side has to give and I think we know which one will in that tug of war. We would be just like the Dutch boy trying in vain to prevent the flood from breaking through the dam by plugging our fingers in the holes. We will be flooded. Be my guest for anyone who wants to get their way with government at this point by voting. More power to you. You're doomed though. We can't beat them at their own game now.
Voting is a lost cause and has to be abandoned for other solutions. Now of course anyone who supports big government intrusiveness wouldn't be able to relate to what I'm saying or even care. They're getting their state programs so why should they be concerned like me? So what I'm saying will fall on deaf ears with them. We're stuck in this world with government everywhere and there is no way out. Wherever you go, you are under its jurisdiction and unlike the founding fathers, there doesn't seem to be any place we can go so that we can escape from King George. Ironic there. We don't have the ability to escape to another planet to colonize. I'm afraid that the federal government would eventually crack down on N.H. or any other dissenters. They are under the jurisdiction of the feds and I don't think there is an escape route. We are stuck in this box.
So with that being said, this is what I think will be the only way out. Just call me the grim reaper. It seems to me that the only way for this world to change is with ideas and education first. People have to understand and want liberty. Without that, I'm afraid there is no successful way for the minority to get out of this dilemma. It's akin to us trying to force freedom upon the Iraqi people at the barrel of a gun. It doesn't work that way. People have to want liberty first and there are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq. That's the same with us. The minority of liberty lovers are stuck within the jurisdiction of a powerful, entrenched government. So there has to be this great epiphany and paradigm shift that will jolt everyone awake so they will come to their senses.
At this point, I think the only way the human race will start to seriously have this "punctuated equilibrium", is by having something really bad happen to this world first. Things are going to have to very dark first before we may possibly see the light at the end of the tunnel, if there ever will be one. So I think we're going to have to take a cold, hard slap in the face. No no, actually I think we'll have to be cold cocked. See where I'm going with this?
End days talk, huh? Our world is growing and yet becoming smaller with everything becoming interconnected. Modern day governments are becoming bigger and more dangerous with modern day weaponry. The human race and civilization is evolving or you might argue, devolving, and we are like an infant and are starting to go through some growth pains. We are a primitive Type 0 civilizations right on the cusp of making the jump to Type I status according to astronomers and theoretical physicists. We are at the tail end of our Type 0 status that might be considered a crucial crossroads and a dangerous window of time we're facing. It is thought that just maybe most other intelligent life in the universe goes through this same natural growth and evolution of its civilization and yet they likely go extinct during this dangerous period we're facing whether it be self-destruction, natural cataclysm, or both. I don't think we're going to make it. Not from what I'm seeing anyway. I have a gut feeling element 92 is going to do in the human race.
I do think we're on this course unless we change our thinking about government and liberty. It's a natural, inevitable course of events that will have to transpire if things continue the way they're going with the growth of this world, the growth of governments and more centralization. There's no way around it. I can't envision any revolution being successful, whether peaceful or violent. I would hope to be proven wrong, but I just don't see it. Things are just quickening and escalating in this world and it is all going to come to a head at some point.
Sometimes life can be stranger than fiction and I think we're living out a sci/fi novel, so to speak. I see a bleak future and I see the human race heading towards destruction because of our stupidity. Call it end days, call it whatever you want, self-fulfilling prophecy or Atlantis revisited, heh heh. I don't see this ending well. Much like a sci/fi novel, I think after it is all said and done, there will be a post apocalyptic world and if there are any remaining survivors, they will be left to pick up the pieces and restart. Hopefully they will have learned from their mistakes and will be forming a peaceful libertarian society by that point. Cest la vie.
Told you I'd be so damn cynical
So whose comedy is this after all?
- JDenigma, on 04/20/2008, -1/+3baatezu
- wtpnetThor, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3It's easy to become overwhelmed when thinking about our current situation with the War Criminals in the process of overthrowing our Constitution and country, a criminally-complicit Congress, and the courts unwilling to do anything about it. But there is cause for optimism in this long, dark tunnel.
I run a website called We the People Network at http://www.wtpnet.org/index.html
One of the main things I am trying to get across to people through my on-line activism is that We the People, that being you and me, have within our grasp a collective solution to our dilemma. It doesn't involve violence, at least not on our part, or anything like that. It does involve the people fully realizing that it is the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, that spells out the rights of the people in relation to their government.
It is commonly, and mistakenly, believed that the Constitution is the end-all document when it comes to the governance of the people. Wrong. The Constitution was created by the people to provide a framework for the administration of government. The Bill of Rights was not included to govern the behavior of the people, instead it was included to assure the people that the government would not create any laws that would violate the peoples natural rights. The Bill of Rights is a "do not touch list" directive from the people to the government.
The peoples ultimate authority over their elected representative government is written in the Declaration of Independence.
In the Preamble to this, our original founding document, it is declared to the world that "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness: that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, & to institute new government, laying it's foundation on such principles, & organizing it's powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety & happiness. Prudence indeed will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light & transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses & usurpations pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such government, & to provide new guards for their future security."
Our government of the people has been overthrown by an internationally recognized terrorist organization, a.k.a. the Bush Administration.
Our system of checks and balances has failed.
People are dying daily as a direct result.
We the People need to realize our true authority, and we need to accept our clear duty, as it relates to the preservation not only of our Constitution, but the very principles upon which it resides. I have written much of my opinions on how We the People can do exactly that.
For starters, sign the Peoples Warrant to arrest Bush, Cheney, et al., at http://www.wtpnet.org/phpPETITION/index.php
Second, help educate everyone to the idea of the people calling a new Peoples Constitutional Convention. This is our process that belongs to the people. See http://www wtpnet.org/index.html for more info on the We the People Network.
in solidarity,
Paul Fisher
We the People Network
mail@wtpnet.org - Strongo, on 04/20/2008, -0/+3Our government is designed with a built in destruction clause, cited in the declaration of independence,
"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
I just hope I'm around to see it. - zombird, on 04/21/2008, -0/+2"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."
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