What is Digg?327 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+286The federal government doesn't have the authority to force this on the states, thats why you're seeing many states refuse the card. What frightens me is the federal government's response. Those without this card will be unable to enter a court of law. That literally means the federal government will take away your bill of rights unless you take their mark of the beast. You can be accused of anything or nothing and without this card, you're automatically guilty. This is a direct and blatant violation of our constitution. If this is allowed to happen, America can no longer be classified as a democratic republic, it will be classified as fascism, a state where the ruling party has absolute power over the people.
- DrScott, on 10/12/2007, -9/+143Live free or die.
- pinab, on 10/12/2007, -15/+116If there's an RFID chip, you can either make a duct tape wallet with aluminum foil embedded in it, buy a shielded wallet, or smash the area of the card where the rfid chip is with a hammer. The smashing will effectively disable the chip, without damaging the card (cads are flat already, duh).
- TheGilmanator, on 10/12/2007, -11/+83Nobody in Congress would authorize an unprovoked invasion of any middle-eastern countries, either. That's laughable.
- Mephux, on 10/12/2007, -6/+71@pinab
Look we all know that the chip can be destroyed but who the ***** cares. The jews could have removed their yellow star of David?! However it was the point of the matter! It's a pride issue. Americans love America! We don't have to love the government or the people in charge! We all need to wake up before its to late. - pleiadianagenda, on 10/12/2007, -4/+47I'll answer your comment by saying do a google search on National ID and read all literature for and against. I won't digg you up or down, you are just curious.
I will say this: There are many in govt and military AGAINST a national ID card. 60 years ago we were fighting Nazi's for making Germans have to SHOW THEIR PAPERS everywhere they went. We referred to it as fascism. A national ID card would a step towards social consolidation, leaving the next step inevitibly to implantable microchips.
Arron Russo who ran for President in 2004 as a Libertarian, put out a film called America Freedom to Fascism. It explains the casues and consequences of a National ID card. Its your free will to watch it or ignore it.
Is the technology itself bad? Technology itself has never been bad or good, it being bad or good is only a consequence of how it is yeilded. - JCSaint, on 10/12/2007, -10/+53I'm pretty wary of a national ID card but I have to ask: Aren't state issued driver's licenses basically de facto national ID cards? The RFID chip is what worries me most but mostly due to identity theft. Libertarians of Digg, I ask you what will be the biggest change if we get national ID cards as opposed to current social security numbers, drivers licenses, etc?
- SLuM, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40too bad no one will get off their sofa and actually protest this.
- jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -6/+42I remember a whole digg article about how you can simply microwave an rfid tag id badge if you want to destroy it.
- an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39@thebaron
If you really want to stop illegal immigration, I know how.
Arrest the CEO's of the companies that employ them. Fine or imprison those that rent or finance them. Cut off the housing, jobs, and means of credit.
That's why they are coming. It's not their fault, I would do the same.
It's the fault of those who provide incentives and make it possible. - insomniac8400, on 10/12/2007, -13/+49No one.
- an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34@terry
Just post your name and address here. We promise not to misuse it. - humanseemer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31@zm634:
Yep! And it's well within my right to do so. Innocent until proven guilty, remember? - samm71790, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32just one more freedom being taken away... not really sure what freedom but thats what it feels like
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32"...becuase some time inthe distant future..."
There is already a list of people not allowed to fly on (private?) commercial airlines because they criticize the government. It's called the "no fly" list.
Concerns about treating everyone as guilty unless proven innocent is not about some distant future. It is about here, and now.
It is unfortunate that the methods and processes resemble those in certain old text books, because it's easy to mock them thereby. It's much more rational to realize that human nature doesn't change, that the desire for control by governments is constant, that the dangers are constant, so writing about police-state tactics 1,500 years ago is of course going to resemble police-state tactics today.
Technology changes. The disease of desire for power over others does not. - thewriterleft, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32Am I the only one looking forward to a futuristic police state society where I can become part of the rebel movement?
- shableep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26will you?
- centerblack, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27Another step towards the police state.
To all the idiots saying 'whats the big deal? will there really be any difference if we all get these as opposed to drivers licenses?'. Assuming you are correct, that nothing will change, then why spend the money, time, effort, and resources to implement the National ID?
Obviously there *will* be changes, arguing that there won't is simply another argument against it. If you want to argue that having national id cards would have stopped 9/11, I will laugh at you. If you want to argue that it will stop anything else, I will laugh at you.
9/11 happened because of poor security on airplanes. The terrorists should never have been able to enter the cockpit. Video of the passenger cabin should be available to the pilots so that they can be made aware of any situations taking place on their craft. Problem solved. - JCSaint, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28Can anyone supply links to actual news articles about this? I've heard of this issue before but I haven't researched it.
- Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25Repeal the REAL ID Act link.
http://action.downsizedc.org/wyc.php?cid=30 - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30When American tax rates are comparable to Sweeden's, I'll consider it.
Right now, I still think America has the best chance of rolling back Leviathan. Sweeden is far too wedded to the Welfare state to roll it back at all. - Spanktacular, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Silence Dogood would disagree with the concept of no right to anonymity. Learn your history so the rest of us don't have to repeat it, you dolt.
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/14534 - lanman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24It is truly disturbing to see the federal government's continued encroachment upon our civil liberties. The Founding Fathers of this country would truly be horrified if they could see the liberties that we have given up, and those that we will soon be asked/forced to relinquish. In the Revolutionary War, the people of the future United States were the insurgents of their time. They chose to look in the face of tyranny and say "Not for me!". If you look at statements in the Declaration of Independence, you'll find that a number of reasons the signers wanted to separate from England are just as valid today as they were 200+ years ago. The war on terror has led us to give up our liberties for the promise of more security. As Franklin said (roughly)... "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither". The Founding Father understood that it was important that the people of the United States were allowed freedoms - of speech, the right to bear arms, to travel unihibited, to gather peaceably, etc. They understood that the people of the US might at some point have to defend themselves against their very own government, abolish it, and change it for the better.
Look at the Declaration of Independence... "We hold these truths to be self-evident,.... That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
We all have to get off our asses and do our part in helping to end this madness. Even if that's just learning about what's really happening and telling one other person. - sorrow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22@ vicissidude
I don't give a damn about my WA state license, what i care about is the fact that they want a piece of ID that contains EVERYTHING about you. And on top of this, what difference will it make regarding illegal immigrants? Will it meant that they will stop every person on the street for a year, asking for their ID, and if they can't provide it ship them out of the country? I think not.
What about this act ISN'T Orwellian?? - JCSaint, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I guess the idea is that it would still be government property. Much the same way it is illegal to destroy currency it would be a crime to disable your RFID tag.
- redlemon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23when i used to travel a lot with my family i would occasionally need to get my passport stamped by a funny little man at customs. and that was it. a ***** stamp. an entry in a log book...
this opens a whole new can of worms. imagine walking through the airport having photos taken of you and put "on file." imagine a cop scanning your ID and arresting you for having a faulty RFID chip? imagine every purchase you make with a card being kept in one database.
every ticket, every time and place you filled up your car with gas, every time you purchased lime or fertilizer or cigarettes or liquor...
the internet is cool. computers are grand. what we forget is that despite their lack of "natural" intelligence, they can file and organize things very well. including your whole life.
this is different than social security, and drivers licenses, etc. this is NEW. this is NETWORKED. this is terabytes of what you did last summer.
i guess it all comes down to how much you trust your government. - iTorrey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18@thebaron2
There are many examples of policies in place where police officers and others in public service cannot ask anyone if they are legal or not as it is discrimination. So this won't really matter. They'll see someone who looks like 'an illegal' and just wave them past while the rest of us are required to show ID.
Bank of America now gives credit cards to people who 'cannot show identification' and they market this service in spanish and to the mexicans in America. Car dealers give loans, banks give home loans etc. all without them proving their identification while we are the only ones being scrutinized. - nateabel, on 10/12/2007, -17/+32So, why is this a bad thing? Really, how would it hurt? Please don't digg me down, and if you do reply to my comments because I'm really confused as to how this is a bad thing.
- atb12688, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26I don't see how this is any different than driver's licenses, passports, or social security cards. I think i remember someone on here saying "Whats next: are they going to assign numbers to us when we are born?" ROFL they have been for a long time. Your King FDR started all that. The government already knows everything about everyone through driver's licenses and passports. If anything, the national ID card just streamlines everything and makes everything much simpler. Don't they have these in the UK already?
- antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15You know, if these people worked this hard to stop terrorists, we would not have these problems.
- rottenspitty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Go read history. Go read about the eastern block. People could not move or go freely from territory to territory within the Soviet Union and East Germany without their papers. Americans have always been able to move freely from state to state within the USA without PAPERS. That is freedom. You act as though governments ALWAYS have their citizens best interests in mind. You act like this government didn't support slavery, segregation, suppressing womens rights, lynchings, religious bigotry and the like. I got news for you, they did. You act like this government wasn't at least COMPLICIT in the assassinations of Dr. King and President Kennedy. They were.
I got news for you. During those turbulent times in the 50s and 60s, the government didn't change itself. WE THE ***** PEOPLE changed the government. And that is how it should be as they represent us and not LEAD US. We lead them.
Many good people died in the 50s and 60s because our government tried to kill a movement by killing the leaders of that movement. We take women getting the right to vote and civil rights for granted because it has been that way since we have been alive BUT it was not always like that. Hateful superior feeling people resisted, killed and maimed many, but we pressed on and changed the government. They are trying to UNDO what we have achieved. Better wake up now. - imtigger2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17@an0nymous.....
I'm the CEO of a company that hires people of 'questionable' legal status here in the U.S.
I have to say that I'm not the problem, the problem is the American worker in a tedious, repetitive job. I tried... I tried SO FRICKIN HARD to keep hiring "Gringos" to do my repetitive work. It's good pay at $14-20/hr, but it's all piece-work, so you make what you want, depending on how hard and fast you want to work. Don't EVEN get the idea I have a "sweat shop" going either, it's nothing of the sort. It's bright, clean, has heat and AC, TV's, good music piped in and they have a full kitchen and great break area with video games and all the facilities they need.
Well, after years of ***** repetitive motion claims (just have to trust me, they were ***** claims), heavy turnover and lack of motivation to work hard and actually show up to work, I started hiring Mexican women little by little.
Wow! What a difference. They make great pay, and I treat them with great respect. They LOVE their jobs, love the pay, love the opportunity to WORK and make such good money, and they will work whatever hours I allow them to. They, and I, follow all labor laws, and they DO pay their taxes (to a system that will never give it back to them mind you... long story). All of them are trying HARD to become citizens in a messed-up, B.S. government system that takes 10 years just to get a "no" answer. It's frustrating for them, and frustrating for me.
Meanwhile however, I enjoy their excellent work skills and ethics, and I have zero regrets about it. IF I was forced back to hiring Gringos, I would move my production plant to South of the border, down Mexico way.
IF I could find American workers, especially in Southern CA, that weren't lazy or felt entitled to something, or didn't make b.s. claims so they could sit at home and enjoy their "good life", then I would hire them on the spot.
I'm convince they don't exist here where I work and live.
If you really want to stop illegal immigration, I know how.
Arrest the CEO's of the companies that employ them. Fine or imprison those that rent or finance them. Cut off the housing, jobs, and means of credit.
That's why they are coming. It's not their fault, I would do the same.
It's the fault of those who provide incentives and make it possible. - crestfall, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24A couple of nuclear explosions in US cities would change everything real fast. Executive orders, and total blind support of the ultra-conservative could make the chip a reality overnight. Why would someone refuse it unless they were a terrorist?
What do conservatives say when anyone questions up the privacy invasion issue since 911?
"I have nothing to hide."
Rights are simply not an issue in this mindset.
I can see instant imprisonment with no trial for refusing the chip pretty clearly, and I don't have much of an imagination.
It's all about circumstances. - Mephux, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25I would love to move to Sweden! Mad fine bitches.
- JCSaint, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16@thebaron,
Any document or tech will be faked/spoofed eventually. Look at social security numbers. What teenager doesn't know how to get his hands on a fake ID? If you want to stop the hiring of undocumented workers you need massive penalties to the employers for hiring them. - Boulevard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Bruce Schneier has written extensively on Real ID and the illusion of added security for a national ID card. He's probably one of the most respected electronic security experts in the world. You can read more here:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/01/realid_costs_an.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+26You want freedom? Vote Ron Paul for next presidential elections. A true believer in the constitution
"anti-war & pro-freedom"... thats what America needs. - mrhaines, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I think that members of the Nazi party said the same thing about Hitler. I guess the Jews weren't as happy about wearing their ID as the Nazi's were cause they had something to hide. You have nothing to hide until your lifestyle or race differs from the preferences of the ruling party of your country.
- wddwmmandalore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"Papers please."
- mt4055, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@terrya64
Along with your name and address include your birth date and SSN. That should be enough for now. With the unlimited powers they are giving them selves who knows what they will require next.
I for one do not trust the US government to securely protect all (or any of) my vital information. This will be like one stop shopping for ID theft.
This is just too scary to even think about.
Besides, within 6 month you will be able to get perfect fakes for the right price.
1984 has finally arrived, twenty some years late. - TheScanner261, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Here is a good reason not to have a national ID card. In the 20th century alone governments have been responsible for killing over 200 million people. That includes Hitler, Stalin, Mau, and others.
- varmit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Can't we consider that Social Security Card to be a National ID card already? It basically goes on almost all legal documents and it is already used to track where you work. I mean, we already have a national ID basically, just we are going to get one now that has a picture on it and required to travel by plane or to go into federal buildings.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9First comes "terrorism", then comes "you need an updated passport (newer ones w/ RFID) to leave the country" - even to Canada. Next is so much war that the draft is instated. BUT, this time there will be no draft dodging since everyone will be IDed at the border - even Canada, whether they like it or not.
We'd like to believe we live in a free society, but you only need to read Orwell to gain a better perspective of what's really going on. - TheScanner261, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The problem is that you cannot trust any government with this much power. Governments more often than not throughout history become corrupt and attempt to dominate they're populations. This is just the latest case. The problem is that people who are rutheless are usually the ones who get into positions of power. You cannot trust the government to have this kind of power. Let's just say that right now you have a saint running the government and you can trust them with all this information. Well tommarow you might have Adolf Hitler running the government or someone even worse. Do really want them to have this much power.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Every time you give away a piece of your liberty, you're giving away a piece of mine.
Stop being so cowardly and selfish. This country was not made great by recoiling in fear from small men with hate in their hearts. - wvannus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11@ JC:
Prevalent use/requirement. Right now you do not have to show an ID at an airport (legally.) A National ID would require it, as everyone would have one. More and more private businesses would require the card as it would be easier to verify/handle than state driver's licenses. It's just an easy way for Big Brother and anyone else to keep their eye on your activities. - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I am glad to see that, though you do not currently see the dangers, you are open to hear our concerns about the issue. Also, I am glad to see that your legitimate question had been dugg up.
Regarding the Real ID. This does in fact constitute a de facto national ID card, and the fact that it is being rolled out as though it doesn't is part of the problem... the inherent deceit in the way it is being implemented. Part of the act states that "a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements." Though each state can, in theory, opt out, the inhabitants of that state would be restricted heavily. For example, now that a federal agency, TSA, has taken over airport security; a person with a non-compliant ID would not be able to travel by air. And soon, this will include buses, trains, etc.
If you keep a tab on the security industry, you can see many of the things that are being developed because of the foreknowledge of the market to come. In the pipeline, are security devices that, in addition to audio and video surveillance that many of us have seen appearing in our cities, will have RFID scanners, so that everybody passing by with a Real ID will be logged by a government database. There are also specs being developed for the future Real ID generations so that you can associate your bank accounts, credit card accounts, etc. to your Real ID.
You may say that this sounds fine. It makes life more convenient, and maybe it does. But the largest issue is the sheer amount of potential power this creates. Being able to track ALL citizens in all ways. Where they are. What they buy. Who they associate with. Never, in the history of the World has a government had this much power. Not only can the government (or the involved corporations) track your life, but they can disable you at the punch of a button. As the Real ID, out of legislation or mandatory convenience, becomes your key for everything, the government would literally be able to cut you off from life. Think "no fly list" on steroids. This could be done for one person, or just as easily for millions... within seconds.
Never before in American history has having an ID been required. Ever. And for good reason. The shear amount of power that even the requirement of ID gives the government is an amount that is too great. Then add to that that it be required to travel, to shop, to rent, to live.
Many will say that the government is not to be feared. Our leaders are fine. That may be, but they are instituting a system that cannot be undone. Who will be in power in 10 years...20 years...30 years. - staggerlee14760, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8 implantable chips are well on the way> the f.d.a. already approved them for humans,don't kid yourself I bet you used to say that they would never use torture or listen to my phone calls or search my financial records- library records etc. wake up please its our last chance to win back this country and world the new world order is a real agenda by the elite and most of congress are part of that elite they see all of us as cattle and will try to mark us as such.
- siszam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8What happens when you can't buy or sell without an rfid implant? See the problem?
- DivineBrevity, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13My wife works for a company handling RFID plans, and one of the things that she mentioned to me was that some RFID designs are smaller than molecules of dust. It's possible that you could have an RFID chip in or on you right now that you don't know about. One designed to enter the blood-stream, for example, could lodge in you and never be removed!
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