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- inactive, on 08/30/2008, -6/+24
Challenging AIPAC. For a New Foreign Policy.
We have also set up a special page to discuss AIPAC's push for the next war, this time with Iran. Read about the Iran War Resolution, now before Congress. Fight Resolution 362!
AIPAC, or the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, describes itself as the most important organization affecting the U.S. relationship with Israel. With a budget of $65 million, and membership now standing at over 100,000, it is no wonder that congressional staffers consider it one of the most powerful and effective lobbies on Capitol Hill. - inactive, on 08/30/2008, -5/+21Too much power from a foreign body,once subtle in its manipulation of America,now grown far too confident in its manipulative abilities and is more or less openly running American policy to the detriment and with no reguard for the American constitution or the way of life it upheld and created.
- inactive, on 08/31/2008, -0/+8I KNOW that they would, and most people know that they would. I would just like them to be honest enough to come out and say that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to Zionists. An interesting thing is that you have the EXTREME right and the EXTREME left (underline extreme) pushing the same agenda on this matter.
- inactive, on 08/30/2008, -4/+12Declassified Old Documents Shed New Light on AIPAC Espionage Prosecution - IRmep - Press Releases: PR Newswire: Insurance - SunHerald.com
http://www.sunherald.com/451/story/759287.html
TFA
More than 1000 documents released under Freedom of Information Act filings reveal details of a secret battle that raged between founders of the AIPAC and top US law enforcement officials. The new book "America's Defence Line: The Justice Department's Battle to Register the Israel Lobby as Agents of a Foreign Government" reproduces and analyses these files and their troubling implications for rule of law in the US. "America's Defence Line" also reveals stunning details of a preferential deal engineered within the highest levels of the US Department of Justice over the course of 3 years and implemented in 1965 -- but kept secret from the American public until today. Old documents and new analysis from the Centre for Policy and Law Enforcement raise many questions about the upcoming October 2008 AIPAC espionage trial
... SunHerald
My tags: AIPAC Book Justice Dept Israel lobby secret document spy court :USMedia Aug'08 history - inactive, on 08/30/2008, -5/+13Howard Lisnoff: The Long Silence: American Jews and Palestinians. "I have been silent as a Jew about Israel’s relationship to, and treatment of, the Palestinian people and my place as an American Jew in that equation."
http://www.counterpunch.org/lisnoff08232008.html
TFA
Jews in the US were expected to accept their roles as supporters of whatever policy Israel adopted. Those Jews who wavered would be open to the most vicious attacks. Finkelstein typifies this. After a campaign of vicious attacks aimed at silencing his scholarly criticism of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people and the industry that had grown up, primarily in the US to profit from the horror of the Holocaust. His books, among them The Holocaust Industry and Beyond Chutzpah (2005) have drawn stinging attacks. Among his most vehement detractors is Dershowitz. The power of the Jewish lobby in the US is partially explained by studying the monetary might behind that influence. The most powerful of these organizations is the AIPAC, which had a $33 million budget.. James David reports that the Israel lobby had contributed $41M to US candidates. Stephen Zunes states that “more than $1.5 billion in private US funds…go to Israel annually.”
... CounterPunch
My tags:- USA Jews support Israel lobby violence attack ;Finkelstein academic Palestine holocaust industry Book zealots money power aid AIPAC - JohnReb, on 08/31/2008, -0/+7Of course they would suspend those things. Recall how upset some of them got to learn US citizens, who happened to be zionists, were exercising their 1st and 2nd amendment rights to meet in upstate NY and practice shooting.
- monsieurginger, on 08/31/2008, -2/+9Why not strip citizenship and deport all people you disagree with? It will be so much easier.
- inactive, on 08/31/2008, -1/+8AIPAC is an organization made up of US Citizens. Would you suspend the First Amendment right to free association for Zionists? How about suspending freedom of speech for Zionists? How about the right to keep and bear weapons for Zionists?
And yes, it is possible to be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite, but all anti-Semites are anti-Zionists. If you hang around with pigs for a long enough time, you begin to smell like one. For a long time anti-Zionism has been a mask that anti-Semites have hidden behind, so don't be surprised when someone claims to be "anti-Zionist" raises suspicion. I need to go get a breath of fresh air now. - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -1/+8So what would you do about The Goethe Institute. That's an official branch of the German government. Many foreign governments have institutes in the US for all sorts of reasons, including education. AIPAC is not a branch of the Israeli government. I suggest you look at the AIPAC website to see just what they are up to.
- inactive, on 08/31/2008, -0/+6Yeah, President Cynthia McKinney will put an end to all of that.
- inactive, on 08/30/2008, -5/+11Why Bush Will Pardon AIPAC for Espionage - by Grant F. Smith - Antiwar.com
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/gsmith.php?articleid=1 ...
TFA
In 2005, Franklin was indicted alongside2 executives of the AIPAC for allegedly violating the 1917 Espionage Act. He plead guilty to passing AIPAC a classified presidential directive and other secrets concerning US Iran policy. This covert leaking appears to be just one of many AIPAC programs designed to encourage tougher US policies toward Iran, from financial boycotts to naval blockades and possibly even military strikes. He was sentenced to 12 years in prison. He remains free pending the outcome of the repeatedly postponed criminal trial against AIPAC's Rosen and Weissman. In Oct. 28, the prosecution is scheduled to appeal the ruling judge's order that it prove the alleged leaks harmed the US. This is a far tougher standard of proof than the Espionage Act actually requires. Observers and critics hope the trial will provide insight into Middle East policy formulation – but there is diminished reason for this hope
...AntiWar
My tags:- AIPAC spy guilty USA policy against Iran Israel judge leak M-East criticism :AntiWar Aug'08 Jews Agency charity money.laundering Philippines Zionist lobby Bush pardon reputation - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -1/+7How are you going to strip AIPAC members of their citizenship? Send in big government to do it? Can't do that, AIPAC supposedly controls the government.
- Erich100, on 08/30/2008, -5/+10We the people need to accept responsibility for allowing the systematic deconstruction of not only our foreign policy but our constitution and bill of rights. We have allowed ourselves to be subordinated by political correctness. Honest public and private debate of issues like Israel's special treatment has been stifled by the parameters political correctness has defined.
It's not anti Semitic to question the special treatment Israel has received from the US.
It's not anti Semitic to question the treatment of the Palestinians have received at the hands of Israel. It's not anti Semitic to ask, why is Israel second only to Russia in spying operations against the US? Yet Israel is still considered our ally.
We all know these questions are legitimate and need to be a part of the public discussion yet we cower to political correctness instead.
Our government is far into the process of being hijacked. High level positions held by people with Israeli as well as US citizenship is out of control and should be illegal.
There is not about to be a US version of The Night of the Long Knives, so it's up to we the people to make this right.
Start having honest discussion. The faux discussion is taking away all that is American. - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -1/+5Why not just put people that you disagree with in re-education camps?
- inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+4All this talk about depriving certain citizens of their citizenship and deporting them is a real good case for people to support the right to keep and bear arms.
- inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+4Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. There are all trends of Zionism ranging from the far left (some of the Kibbutz Artzi kibbutzim used to have pictures of Stalin hanging in their dining halls -- and they weren't even the FAR left!) to the far right. There are religious Zionists and there are secular Zionists. Israel has political parties from Communist (including Trotskyist) to nationalist right wing parties.
Most of the founders of the modern state of Israel were from the Labour Zionist movement and were socialists, including some pretty radical ones. On of the main founders of the Israel Defense Forces was a communist. When David Ben-Gurion was living in Paris, one of his neighbors was his close friend, Ho Chi Minh, who invited Ben-Gurion to set up an Israeli government-in-exile in Hanoi.
All these things are out there for people to read about. There are many books that you can read to learn something about the history of Zionism, such as Walter Laqueur's "A History of Zionism" (particularly recommended).
Israel is an imperfect democracy (as are all democracies and all societies). How many other countries in that region have such hallmarks of a civil society as: 1) free trade union movements; 2) democratic elections with opposition parties that sit in the parliament; 3) freedom of speech; 4) religious freedom; 5) women that can vote (in Saudi Arabia, they can't even drive cars); 6) a gay rights movement (in the Gaza Strip, homosexuals are routinely tortured -- one of the big population movements in the Palestine Authority are homosexuals sneaking into Israel where they have much more freedom); etc., etc.? The PLO (an umbrella organization made up of constituent organizations) used to call for the establishment of a democratic, secular, bi-national state in Palestine. Do you really think that there is any real chance of that? Do you think they ever meant it?
This is not a matter of evil expansionist Zionists oppressing and stealing land from the innocent Palestinians. Before 1948, the only people that used that term were the Jews who lived there. The Arabs considered themselves members of the Ottoman empire. When Ariel Sharon was Prime Minister, he proposed several areas in Israel proper that should be included in an independent Palestine. One place, Um al-Fahm, had a radical Islamist mayor and city administration. As soon as Sharon made this proposal, the Um al-Fahm mayor and city administration were outspoken in their unwillingness to be transferred to Palestine, preferring to remain Israelis. A large majority of Arabs living in the eastern portions of Jerusalem have also expressed their preference to remain Israelis. Arab Israelis are Israeli citizens and vote in Israeli elections. There is an Israeli law that when the president leaves the country, a temporary president assumes the duties of president (largely ceremonial). In the recent past, Israel had a female Arab president!
There are high-ranking members of the Israel Defense Forces that are Moslems and Druzim.
And yes, it is possible to be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite (there are anti-Zionist Jews), but all anti-Semites are anti-Zionists. If you hang around with pigs for a long enough time, you begin to smell like one. For a long time anti-Zionism has been a mask that anti-Semites have hidden behind, so don't be surprised when someone claims to be "anti-Zionist" raises suspicion.
The Middle East is not a nice suburb, it is a very tough neighborhood. This is not Gandhi fighting the English. And this is not a nice debating society, people die (on both "sides") as a result of the stands that people take.
I, for one, believe in an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. Hopefully, it would be a democratic, secular state, as the PLO used to claim that it was for. - monsieurginger, on 09/01/2008, -0/+4I: Yes i was.
You. No you weren't.
I: yes I was....... - monsieurginger, on 09/01/2008, -0/+4"i would for instance like to know were they got the knowledge and expertise to build the nuclear bomb at Demona"
If they stole nuclear technology, it is criminal. But they are Jews, they got the "knowledge and expertise" part. - inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+4eldudereno - You wrote "bernk1 is how ever right to point out the lack of a palistian/ Arab lobby in the US to rival the power of AIPAC". I never said anything like that. You must have me confused with someone else. Actually, there are several "Arab lobbies" in the US, the foremost of which is CAIR.
Whether Arabs have as much political punch as the "Zionists" is a function of how closely the US electorate identifies with the stated aims of the groups involved.
Which Zionists are you tallking about? There are right wing Zionist organizations and left wing Zionist organizations. Some are secular, some are religious. Some are nationalist/expansionist, some favor creation of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel. Saying "the Zionists" is just as wrong as saying "the Moslems." - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -1/+5Why don't you check out the AIPAC website some time to see just what they believe in? It's out there in the open for all to see. aipac.org
- monsieurginger, on 08/31/2008, -3/+6And the American people.
- inactive, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3eldudereno - Einstein was an atheist but he was still a Zionist. Read any decent biography of him and you will see it.
Of course one can be a Jewish Zionist (even a non-Jewish one) and still respect Palestinians and their right to have self autonomy. I do. I support an independent Palestinian state. Read some of the non-fiction work of Jewish Zionist Amos Oz. You will see. Israeli politicians and segments of Israeli society have favored the establishment of an independent Palestinian state immediately after the Six Day War. The response to Israeli openness and peace efforts was the "Three Noes Declaration" adopted at the Arab Summit Conference in Khartoum on September 1, 1967 -- no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no peace with Israel.
The blockade does not exist in a vacuum. There is a reason for it and it is obvious.
Being a Jew and being an anti-Zionist does not, by itself, make you a "self-hating Jew."
A would categorize Mordecai Vanunu as atomic spy. - inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+3Einstein was a Zionist.
- monsieurginger, on 09/01/2008, -0/+3"we'd all be living in caves beating each other about the head with large pieces of lumber ... unga bunga."
obviously not, newton isnt jewish. I was just making a joke. You are taking it the wrong way. - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -3/+6So is the US Congress, the courts, the presidency and the media, remember?
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -0/+3GWBExplosives writes: "Except statement 1 came with an explanation in parentheses." Which statement 1 do you refer to? Can't you deal with parentheses? What is your problem with them? I don't understand you. Are you upset that I simplified something, like leaving out that there are anti-Zionist Jews? Is that it?
What is your point about "Benny" turning down Ho? - monsieurginger, on 08/31/2008, -3/+6So you want to kick out all the ambassadors? World leaders can never come to the US. The UN would have to be put on some neutral island. Hmmmm, what else? Officials would probably have to stay in the US also because you might never know how they'll be influenced by seeing other cultures. Governments won't be even to talk to each other because every time people talk, their is a level of influence occurring.
- monsieurginger, on 08/31/2008, -4/+7Yea! All white people and non-Native Americans get out of here. We are taking back our country.
- inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+3eldudereno -- Fundamentalist Evangelicals have no business defining Zionism. They can go along with it if they want, but for Christians to define Zionism is like Moslems defining Christianity.
Apology accepted. Please, don't anticipate my thinking.
There are many books that you can read to learn something about the history of Zionism, such as Walter Laqueur's "A History of Zionism" (particularly recommended). - inactive, on 09/01/2008, -0/+3GWBExplosives - You are guilty of pretzel logic by twisting the statement "And yes, it is possible to be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite (there are anti-Zionist Jews), but all anti-Semites are anti-Zionists." into "So only Jews can be anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semites." I never said anything like that, I never believed anything like that, and anyone who does is either lying or stupid.
Here we go -- and please pay attention this time -- (Statement 1) IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE ANTI-ZIONIST WITHOUT BEING AN ANTI- SEMITE. (Statement 2) ALL ANTI-SEMITES ARE ANTI-ZIONISTS.
I don't shout down people who criticize Zionists because they are racist (your word, not mine). If I shout them down, it is because what they say is stupid. Mostly, I let their statements be. - foopirata, on 09/01/2008, -1/+4And Ben&Jerry's!
- inactive, on 09/04/2008, -0/+2eldudereno - "i wanted to digg your last comment you sound like a nice and reasonable person until you said Mordecai Vanunu was a spy?. Is following your conscience a treacherous act ... " -- It could be a treacherous act, depending on the circumstances. I categorized Vanunu as an atomic spy. I think that Vanunu admitted as much. The Rosenbergs (American atomic spies for the USSR) were following their consciences. Many of the settlers on the West Bank are following their consciences, too. Following your conscience doesn't make you right.
I was always against the building of settlements. I was in favor of giving the West Bank and Gaza back for peace. But some of them were built for security purposes. And Israel has uprooted many of the settlements. Israeli politicians, leaders and segments of Israeli society have favored the establishment of an independent Palestinian state on captured territory immediately after the Six Day War. The response to Israeli openness and peace efforts was the "Three Noes Declaration" adopted at the Arab Summit Conference in Khartoum on September 1, 1967 -- no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no peace with Israel. Abba Eban, long-time Israeli diplomat, has written, "The Arabs rarely miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Which is a shame, because so much blood, on both "sides," has been shed.
You mention "the thorny issue of Jews buying up and evicting Palestinian homes surrounding the Dome of the Rock." There are no homes in the area surrounding the Dome of the Rock. The Sharam/Temple Mount is under control of the Waqf, the Muslim Religious Authority, and the only other structure right around the Dome is the Al-Aqsa mosque.
Check out, "A History of Zionism" by Walter Laqueur.
I hope that you can find this answer reasonable, even if you don't agree with some of my conclusions.
Regards - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -0/+2
- joshstone100, on 08/31/2008, -3/+5Agreed 101%.
The foreign lobby's sure don't seem to care much about us. Just as long as they can buy our politicians and military to support their wars, as long as they can bribe US officials into fighting their enemies for them, they're all set. That's all that matters to them. The lobbys could care less about the fate of this country or American citizens. No more American blood and money for AIPAC. That is not the vision our founding fathers had for our future. It's certainly not why they fought for freedom against British tyrannical rule in the American Revolution to give us a free country with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. The "change" candidates will only bring more of the same. McCain, Obama = no difference. They are all bought, sold and paid for to do AIPACs bidding. We're electing a president of Israel and the Middle East, not a president of the United States who will uphold the Constitution to respect and protect our American freedoms and civil liberty. They will be everywhere else but here.
Want real change from this FUBAR mess? Vote 3rd party. It's that simple. Don't let the media decide your candidate. - kemp34, on 08/31/2008, -5/+6No foreign government should be involved in any way in AMERICAN policy.
I don't give a damn WHICH country that is. All foreign influence OUT of AMERICAN policy. NOW. - eldudereno, on 09/04/2008, -0/+1bernk1 you got your shout back thingy blocked so i cant tell you
- inactive, on 08/31/2008, -4/+4AIPAC should be registered as a foreign lobby. It's interests are for promoting the Israeli agenda. It is counter productive to American interests.
- kazz67, on 08/31/2008, -1/+1Tried your link, but I'm getting error 404, then redirected to the front page.
- eldudereno, on 09/01/2008, -1/+1Zionist in the most part when applied to the U.S. usually means fundamentalist Evangelicals who take the word or the book of revelation to mean what they want it to mean, religious verver has this effect on people but their are also right wing Jewish Zionist who use this verver to expand their ambitions in the occupied territories in the west bank, Jerusalem and starving the people in Gaza.
Theirs nothing humanitarian about what they do, they are what they are.
Most people of Jewish origin are not Zionists and that includes Einstein it just seems that in the collective consciousness of U.S. politicians they have been convinced they are, i really cant think of any other reason why AIPAC is so power full unless it is something to do with oil.
The word Zionist to me means people who are intent on recreating the state of Israel to the old borders pre-Roman empire and the fact that a few look on Palestinians as a different order of hominids even though they come from the same group 2000 years ago is a bit disturbing but as of now i will ask each Zionist i come across as to what kind they are.
sorry for thinking you said something about lobby's i thought you were thinking that way - inactive, on 08/30/2008, -9/+9AIPAC, the ADL, and the Southern Law Poverty Center are all fronts for the Mossad.
- eldudereno, on 08/31/2008, -2/+2I understand AIPAC has the right to lobby but not to spy as well and bribe and corrupt senior politicians and officials like the mafia. i would for instance like to know were they got the knowledge and expertise to build the nuclear bomb at Demona you cant have your cake and eat it can you?.
bernk1 is how ever right to point out the lack of a palistian/ Arab lobby in the US to rival the power of AIPAC why is this shouldn't Arabs have as much if not more political punch in the US nowadays compared to the Zionists and comparing someone who is anti apartheid to someone who is anti Semitic is old language and deserves to be ignored though i have given you your due this time. - eldudereno, on 09/04/2008, -1/+1bernk1 i wanted to digg your last comment you sound like a nice and reasonable person until you said Mordecai Vanunu was a spy?.
Is following your conscience a treacherous act after all its not as if he got a reward for it and he was in the Arab Israeli war.
Plus can you tell me what you think of the continued building of Israeli settlements on the west bank, surely this is sending a message to the palistians that your never coming back, also theirs the thorny issue of Jews buying up and evicting Palestinian homes surrounding the Dome of the Rock isn't this some kind of incitement to the palistians. what do you think? - eldudereno, on 09/03/2008, -1/+1Einstein was actually an atheist so the idea of a promised land would of been self contradicting. I'd just like to ask Bernk1 can you be a Jewish Zionist and still respect palistians and perhaps the right for them to have self autonomy without any suffocating blockade like perhaps a two state solution that seems to hit a brick wall every time its mentioned?
And also if your of Jewish origin or have a bit of Jewishness in your family tree and your anti zionist does this make you a self hater, i heard this word allot bandied around to immplie they are idiots or morally redundant.
What catagorie would you put Mordecai Vanunu in? - kemp34, on 08/31/2008, -5/+5I am making a statement about foreign influence in the affairs of the sovereign United States. By bringing up this red herring argument, are you trying to subvert the subject from eliminating foreign influence in American policy?? Why would you use such a tactic? Trying to deflect attention from the topic at hand?
What a joker.
Foreign governments OUT of U.S. policy. Totally. Unequivocally.
And I'll go with this just to answer your red herring nonsense: I support the secession of the Lakota People from the U.S. for the government having broken its treaties with the tribe, rending them null and void.
How bout them apples turd boy? - inactive, on 09/01/2008, -2/+1"And yes, it is possible to be an anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semite (there are anti-Zionist Jews), but....."
So in other words, only Jews can be anti-Zionist without being an anti-Semites. And any non-Jew who criticizes Zionists will be shouted down as a racist because they've "raised suspicions". Got it. - inactive, on 09/01/2008, -2/+0Except statement 1 came with an explanation in parentheses.
"""When David Ben-Gurion was living in Paris, one of his neighbors was his close friend, Ho Chi Minh, who invited Ben-Gurion to set up an Israeli government-in-exile in Hanoi."""
Good thing for the Vietnamese that Benny turned him down otherwise they could be locked in an open air prison right now with no means of supporting themselves or their families. - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -4/+2Can we do that with the entire federal political establishment? LOL (wishful thinking)
- inactive, on 09/01/2008, -3/+0No, you weren't.
- inactive, on 09/01/2008, -3/+0"""But they are Jews, they got the "knowledge and expertise" part."""
---- monsieurginger
You see, eldudereno, those who shall not be named are the smartest most capable people on the planet. Without them, we'd all be living in caves beating each other about the head with large pieces of lumber ... unga bunga. - inactive, on 08/31/2008, -6/+3Strip all AIPAC members of thier citizenship and deport them.
