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288 Comments
- freedomjoe, on 03/26/2009, -17/+247They are supposed to release a few more memos soon. I hope Holder has enough to prosecute. It seems obvious that this needs to be investigated. It's heart-breaking to me that almost no one seems to care that our government was dismantled, our rights stolen, and hardly anyone finds it worthy of reporting or discussing. Perhaps it is too difficult to grasp-- it sure does seem like another country.
FTA
I call it "Fuhrer's law." What those memos lay out means the end of the system of checks and balances in this country. It means the end of the system in which the courts, legislature and executive each had a function and they could check each other.
What the memos set out is a system in which the president's word is law, and Yoo is very clear about that: the president's word is not only law according to these memos, but no law or constitutional right or treaty can restrict the president's authority.
What Yoo says is that the president's authority as commander in chief in the so-called war on terror is not bound by any law passed by Congress, any treaty, or the protections of free speech, due process and the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. The First, Fourth and Fifth amendments -- gone.....
But I've been reading a lot of 16th and 17th century history, and it seems to me that the founders were thinking more along the lines of English treason of that era -- small groups of Englishmen, usually nobility, who formed cabals and conspired with one another to buy or recruit militias to overthrow the crown or Parliament. - inactive, on 03/26/2009, -16/+165You could omit the words "Secret" and "Memos" from the title with no loss of accuracy.
- Snowspot, on 03/26/2009, -12/+101I really hope the media picks this stuff up, it's really scary.
- draxenato, on 03/26/2009, -4/+80And this process is still going on in the UK right now. We have no right to trial by jury, we don't have the right to silence, we don't have to be given sight of evidence presented against us. It's like living in a Kafka novel but scarier.
There are more CCTV cameras monitoring UK citizens than any other western nation but oddly we're not allowed to take photos of police officers or public buildings. The authorities don't need warrants to monitor our mail, phone calls or Internet usage, hell they even keep lists on who we befriend on social sites like Facebook.
There's a standing 9pm curfew on all kids 16 and under in most inner cities.
Did Bush emigrate when no one was looking ?? - pinchduck, on 03/26/2009, -8/+72Thinking Democrats will Prosecute = Naivete
Have you noticed that Obama has not given up one shred of executive power that W gathered to himself? Just like how the Republicans pissed and moaned about how Clinton expanded executive power, but didn't give up any when they got in office? Have you noticed how the Patriot Act has not been repealed, and repealing it isn't even on the table? Politicians are all about power, people, and prosecuting one of their own would set a dangerous precedent. It won't happen. - inactive, on 03/26/2009, -14/+72It's no surprise to me, but GWBush, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove are the REAL traitors against the USA.
- EserVerx, on 03/26/2009, -1/+54People are too worried about octo-mom to be concerned with their rights and liberties. Too bad shes not actually an octopus.
- defconoi, on 03/26/2009, -6/+53This is all our fault, we have sacrificed our freedom and liberty to our own government, we have let Bush/gov play us, scare us, and screw us into letting him take away all the freedoms our Founding fathers believed in. There is still secret memo's and still things the white house hides via the state secret privilege, there is no need for state secrets, when this country was founded there was open government, it needs to get back to that. And we all cannot let our government take more of our freedom and liberty!
Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security. - Benjamin Franklin - Seann7656, on 03/26/2009, -5/+43Unfortunately nothing will ever be done. The former powers in charge are too immune to any charges brought against them. The aristocracy will never pursue fully and any attempts will just be lost into the endless piles of paper...
Sad but true - BubonicLouie, on 03/26/2009, -5/+41So at what point can we hold him for questioning in the name of national security?
- freedomjoe, on 03/26/2009, -12/+41I am sorry, but I don't believe that. If that were true, why would the GOP have gone to such great lengths to steal elections? Why would Diebold have been busted for stealing elections for them and why would so many people who were called to testify against the GOP be found dead right around the time they were supposed to testify? (no accusations, just commentary on coincidence). Why would they be so desperate to stop Obama?
I'm not going to be painted into a corner as someone naive, but I do think there's a difference between Bush and Obama. Many big, important differences. The largest one being that Obama has already repealed many of the illegal signing statements. Obama has signaled in his pick of Holder that he intends to operate according to strict constitutional interpretation, which is a 180 from Bush. This is vitally important. We can't forget that the DoJ is still staffed with lifelong careerists fundies whom Obama can't fire. He is stuck with these illegally hired partisan hacks. I can only hope Holder finds a way to shift to them to the copy room instead of interpreting law.
I also don't believe that the same people are behind it because of the sheer force of effort the military industrial media complex put into trying to keep Obama down after it was revealed that he thought they should not be huge congloms and he supported breaking them into smaller companies.
If you can link me to something that disputes my experience here, I'm willing to read it.
I do agree with you that Bush was a puppet, but I'm not going to expand on my thoughts regarding who was behind him because it's pointless. We have to prosecute the actors we know. He was the "decider", so he is responsible. - leadfoot, on 03/26/2009, -1/+28Please tell me why (as if I don't know) we are not in the middle of the worlds biggest war crimes trial of civilized history? I am so scared that I want my mommy (government) to do what is best for me... Um OK itself!
Lets face it... We are on a road paved by our own stupidity and failure to educate ourselves that leads only to our children and ourselves to being enslaved for the enrichment of the global elite! Our national debt will ensure that this will be our fate! - EMGroup, on 03/26/2009, -11/+36Iraq, then AIG and now treason....wow just wow. How many people did Bush screw?
- moose26, on 03/26/2009, -2/+23It will just get censored by most media outlets by the usual powers that be.
- mbtria, on 03/26/2009, -2/+21As has been documented by the BBC and papers declassified a few years ago, Prescott Bush and a cabal of supporters plotted to overthrow FDR in the early days of the Depression. It was their plan to install a fascist government in league with Germany. Prescott Bush not only helped bank roll Hitler's rise to power, but continued to have financial dealings with the Third Reich until well after the start of WWII.
It was only when the plotters mistakenly attempted to recruit Marine Corp General Smedley Butler to the plot that the coup was exposed. Bush, Harriman, the Walkers and others owned and operated banks which FDR eventually seized for trading with the enemy during WWII.
George W Bush has made clear his hatred of FDR through his intent to roll back the Social Security and the rest of the New Deal. From these papers it is obvious that Bush43 is aligned with the beliefs of his grandfather Prescott. It explains much of the animosity that he showed towards his father while he was growing up. Bush43 clearly saw his father as a weakling, chose to emulate his grandfather Prescott, and was going to prove this by finishing his Prescott Bush's plans to takeover the US. - StripeyMagee, on 03/26/2009, -2/+21***** Yoo!!
- RonDAdams, on 03/26/2009, -1/+17Read your history book. It's called martial law. And while Bush may have lobbied for more power, he didn't actually exercise it to the extent that some of his predecessors did. Our most popular president ever, according to polls, Abraham Lincoln, imposed it during the civil war, and applied it to draft dodgers as well as spies and prisoners of war. It was ruled by the supreme court that the extent of which he exercised his power was unconstitutional. The Alien & Sedition acts enacted and signed by John Adams made it a crime even to speak out against the US. It also allows (still to this day) the deportation of any resident alien considered "dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States
However, it should be noted too, that the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) allowed the President to declare a public emergency and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities. It was later repealed by H.R. 4986: "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. So, whatever perceived power you think he had or was conspiring to get, was only for a short time, but it was authorized by the Congress. - draxenato, on 03/26/2009, -2/+17The defendants right to silence was abolished in 1993 by then home secretary Michael "My family weren't Nazis, honest" Howard
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ending-the-ri ...
The UK has more cameras per citizen than any other country in the world
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108496.stm%22"
Monitoring of phone calls, emails and internet activity,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm ...
FTA: "Details of the times, dates, duration and locations of mobile phone calls, numbers called, website visited and addresses e-mailed are already stored by telecoms companies for 12 months under a voluntary agreement.
The data can be accessed by the police and security services on request - but the government plans to take control of the process in order to comply with an EU directive and make it easier for investigators to do their job.
Information will be kept for two years by law and may be held centrally on a searchable database. "
Banning photography of public buildings and police
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnist ...
FTA: "From this week, any unauthorised photograph, even inadvertent, of a policeman could land you in jail for up to ten years. Ten years! What madness is this? And it's not just the police. Under Section 76 of the 2008 Counter-Terrorism Act, any picture “likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism” is prohibited. That means almost anything: railways, public buildings, government offices, monuments, parades, communications centres."
Curfew on the under 16s:
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/21/london-impose ... - inactive, on 03/26/2009, -2/+16They weren't signed to restrict torture.
- ryanonfire, on 03/26/2009, -19/+33This ***** is bananas!
- akhomestead, on 03/26/2009, -0/+13"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it's laws.
Rothschilds - Owner, Federal Reserve Bank. - defconoi, on 03/26/2009, -5/+18Over time we will have no more rights, and no more privacy, someday we will be arrested for saying stupid ***** we dont mean in our own homes and on the street, we might even be arrested for our own thoughts. Over time we will let this all happen because of fear and stupidity ;\
- OwdenBowden, on 03/26/2009, -5/+17for the Record - if you are going to put the Treason Label on former President Bush and his administration then you need to also included all of the members of Congress, and even the Supreme Court because they are just as guilty of Treason - For Allowing it to happen and for their Passage of any of Legislation that Propagated it.
And if you haven't already gotten it - the checks and balance system that was put in place is Broken. All each branch of government does is empower each other while disregarding the "We the People". It is very sad that Americans are more interested in iPods and Entertainment than their Rights. By far worse than that is the fact that, I would estimate 99% of all Americans do not even bother to research / read/ investigate / Question anything anymore as they have all become sheep - and just follow the herd so as to be part of something that they just have no clue about. I call it "Peer Pressure Politics" and "Political Clicks".
Bowden/Simpadian 2012
Restoring the Constitution - The New Revolution! - mbtria, on 03/26/2009, -3/+14As has been documented by the BBC and papers declassified a few years ago, Prescott Bush and a cabal of supporters plotted to overthrow FDR in the early days of the Depression. It was their plan to install a fascist government in league with Germany. Prescott Bush not only helped bank roll Hitler's rise to power, but continued to have financial dealings with the Third Reich until well after the start of WWII.
It was only when the plotters mistakenly attempted to recruit Marine Corp General Smedley Butler to the plot, that the coup was exposed. Bush, Harriman, the Walkers and others owned and operated banks which FDR eventually seized for trading with the enemy during WWII.
George W Bush has made clear his hatred of FDR through his intent to roll back the Social Security and the rest of the New Deal. From these papers it is obvious that Bush43 is aligned with the beliefs of his grandfather Prescott. It explains much of the animosity that he showed towards his father while he was growing up. Bush43 clearly saw his father as a weakling, chose to emulate his grandfather Prescott, and was going to prove this by finishing his Prescott Bush's plans to takeover the US. - EarlOfLade, on 03/26/2009, -3/+14I don't understand why people are surprised.
During the Bush presidency, his crimes were so obvious and he should have been removed from office, but since this is USA, no justice will ever be seen.
The worst that will come out of this is that people will hear that Bush was bad but he is not facing any charges. So, when the next religious repuke neo-con takes over the White House, he can work on the precedence set by the Bush administration and there is not a damn thing you can do.
But as long as USA has a political "justice" system rather than a professional justice system, the traitors will go free and the poor black kid who sold a rock of crack will spend the next 20 years in prison. "Land of the free" - a fantasy like gods. - zebraz, on 03/26/2009, -2/+13It is all Bush's fault.
- LBTS, on 03/26/2009, -4/+15@info You made a bit of sense until we got to the part where you brought up Obama's birth certificate. That question has been so thoroughly asked and answered that it labels you as a wingnut.
- asielen, on 03/26/2009, -1/+12Wait what? So you are saying people thought he was a Nazi and they liked that?
One of the biggest criticisms of Obama was that he was a Socialist. You are going all the way to the other side of the spectrum and calling him a Nazi. Nazism was socialism only in name, fascism in heart.
Your post makes no sense. - Waiting2awake, on 03/26/2009, -4/+14It won't happen until there are a few million, or tens of millions of people outside congress and the WH.
Fear and Greed are behind all human actions. With Fear being greater than Greed. Seeing as their greed caused them to sell out your nation, your children and yourselves... Maybe it is time to see what Fear can do?
People shouldn't be afraid of their government; the government should fear the people. - rpgmakr, on 03/26/2009, -0/+10Good read. I was shocked when I first read about John Yoo's memos on the NYT. The news network channels seem to have ignored the story...
- DankBuddz, on 03/26/2009, -3/+13"The memos lay the legal groundwork for the president to send the military to wage war against U.S. citizens; take them from their homes to Navy brigs without trial and keep them forever; close down the First Amendment; and invade whatever country he chooses without regard to any treaty or objection by Congress."
...
"The military can disregard the Posse Comitatus law, which restricts the military from acting as police in the the United States. And the president can, in the name of wartime restrictions, limit free speech. There it is in black and white: we are looking at one-person rule without any checks and balances -- a lawless state. Law by fiat."
So how could any logical person defend this administration? How could Fox News, breeder of Glenn Beck (won't shut up about preserving the constitution) ever defend this administration? And why isn't Karl Rove at least in jail? WTF? - humptyz, on 03/26/2009, -0/+10It's no surprise this story isn't in the mainstream media. With media consolidation fewer people in charge are deciding what gets disseminated. And with fewer people having so much influence means corruption is easy to set in. Somebody at top was probably buddy-buddy with someone else who didn't want this story to be known publicly so they had their newspapers, TV stations, and web sites not promote it.
- Methusalah, on 03/26/2009, -3/+12We knew that. Thanks.
- Shakermaker, on 03/26/2009, -5/+14Does anyone seriously think charges will EVER come up against Bush or Cheney? Not in a million years. A hundred years from now, people may say he was the most corrupt President, but no one will ever dare prosecute.
- vinwal, on 03/26/2009, -2/+11All of us
- richmomz, on 03/26/2009, -3/+12"It's really scary." That's precisely why it WON'T be covered by the media.
- Skibadoweebop, on 03/26/2009, -5/+14Can we hang him now?
- tgc1, on 03/26/2009, -1/+9*ahem* Have you not been paying attention good sir? Who do you think OWNS the media?
- draxenato, on 03/26/2009, -0/+8***** you're right :( I had to edit the post to correct a typo and I guess it mucked up the links I posted. Okay here they are again, and forgive any typos coz I ain't editing this one again.
Right to silence
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ending-the-ri ...
CCTV
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108496.stm
Monitoring phone calls, email and web
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7671046.stm
Banning photgraphy
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnist ...
Curfew
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/21/london-impose ...
Trial by jury doesn't always happen, look up "diplock courts"
The curfew thing, well London's a big place and I did say inner city areas, hopefully the link will come through this time, but I'm guessing you don't live in Zone 1 - 3nder99, on 03/26/2009, -1/+9Actually I think its your big brother society emigrating to the USA. Once our government realized yours was getting away with it......
- cosmicsafari, on 03/26/2009, -0/+8Its scary mate, the thing that really stuck in my throat was when i picked up a host of papers yesterday and on each one there was a full page spread about ***** Girls Aloud!
Says it all, were ***** =S - lightningbolt, on 03/26/2009, -2/+10About 6 billion.
- inajeep, on 03/26/2009, -1/+9The memos were not only meant to be secret from our enemies but also the American people because they knew they were illegal.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/26/2009, -0/+7Sad but true. Yet so many are completely OK with that, as long as the government makes them comfortable today. Truly sad.
- digg4peace, on 03/26/2009, -0/+7It is much more coordinated than "buddy-buddy". The same media that let the Bush/Cheney Junta steal two elections, start two wars that had nothing to do with the 911 attacks and shred our constitution are the same ones that are helping to down play their war-crimes and treason.
You will never see anyone in the so called liberal news media call in to question or investigate just how our NORAD system was held in stand down during the 911 attacks. How did Bin Laden manage that one?....hmmmm? - canton7, on 03/26/2009, -0/+7@mickstephenson
If you kill the quotes after each link (no idea why they're there), the links do work - VitriolAndAngst, on 03/26/2009, -1/+7It wasn't "US" that did this. It was the natural result of the Banksters and Military Industrial Complex getting control of the media. Every year since Reagan took office, has seen a steady erosion of blocks to a power grab. Most people, should worry, but don't because they have the day to day chore of life to get on with -- most people don't take to the streets until they are inconvenienced.
That's also the type of culture the is fostered. The people who get promoted in the media, promote ignorance, or our base instincts. So if you aren't turning off the media, and turning a blind eye, you are becoming a moron. The ONLY tonic to this trend has been the Internet. The ONLY thing that has us SEEING the light now, is the Internet.
Tell me, did we read this story in the newspaper, or see it on CNN, or hear it on Rush Limbaugh's radio show?
So the power grab was slow and steady. Deliberate. The media, was an expense for the real power brokers.
Blame the "rights for Business" that the Supreme court tacked onto a court case that wasn't seeking those rights. Blame Clinton's 1995 Media Reform Act that let Rupert Murdoch own too many stations.
Blame especially, the legalization of lobbyists, able to donate (bribe) a politician. The Financial Bankers spent $5 Billion on lobbying our representatives and then they got the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform Act, which allowed them to make their fantasy Derivatives debt our problem.
>> But seriously, people DO need to be more involved, but you can't be soul searching about human nature and get anywhere with these problems. Bush and his cronies have to be prosecuted and made an example of -- or this will get worse. It got worse after we failed to find out why we invaded Iraq in the first place (it was also a setup and a lie). It got worse after we failed to go after Pappy Bush's treason during Iran/Contra. It got worse after the Savings and Loan "crisis" that resulted from Reagan's deregulation. It resulted from the slap on the wrist for his administration's treason -- supplying weapons and support for terrorists in latin America against Congress's rulings (only they can declare war) -- and it was all to put in tin-horn dictators who would be friendly to the Globalists who just raided our 401k's and took our entire economic system hostage.
There are so many things where a few people needed to be punished and we could have curtailed this assault on our Democracy. - iamthearm, on 03/26/2009, -0/+6Well then there are A LOT of memebers of the media who have committed treason with all the damage they did to the war. Not with public opinion but helping the enemy by giving them info that helped them kill soldiers. THAT'S treason.
- SpinningHead, on 03/26/2009, -1/+7Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible. ~ Sinclair Lewis 1935
- EarlOfLade, on 03/26/2009, -4/+10He is dugg down because he is a clueless moron, not for any other reason.
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