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- migbike, on 10/12/2007, -14/+68Libertarian: It's like Republican without the whole Fundamentalist Christian thing.
How long before the Republican party implodes by trampling the values of some of its staunchest defenders? - omgitscolin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37Based on what Wikipedia says about being Libertarian (which I confess is all I know), this doesn't surprise me at all. The ideaology seems to be completely the opposite of the way this administration behaves.
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33The ONLY thing that is conservative that the Bush Admin has done is lower taxes and allowing the AWB to sunset. Mind you, to me at least, those were two HUGE issues. The AWB is the single thing biggest reason that lost Congress for the Dems.
I also appreciate the fact that Bush is trying to fight terrorism, but I think he is going about it the wrong way. He DEFINITELY needs to smarten up.
The single biggest issue I have is the out of control spending. Total and complete insanity. If there were true conservatives in power, spending, taxes AND the deficit would all have gone down simultaneously. He did the exact opposite. What a moron.
If Bush was a true conservative, and if Bush was fighting the enemy with the fill wrath of the US Armed Forces, his approval numbers would be about 65%, and this election (and 2008!) would have been a no-contest.
Bush, and Bush alone, is ***** this up. - corporate70, on 10/12/2007, -9/+30"Republicans are losing the Libertarian vote"
Since when did they have it? - TheTankengine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22@LoudOrangeCat
"Wrong, they're athiest Democrats. I know, I'm a registered Libertarian."
Wrong, there is no unanimous description of a Libertarian. It has nothing to do with religion or atheism and they are certainly not Dems. If we were Democrats, we would be Democrats. As a registered Libertarian myself, I find your generalization and labeling of me as an "athiest [sic] Democrat" appalling. If anything, I would say that I am apathetic towards religion and a Libertarian. And I have no right to say what you are , that is for you to decide.
Open your eyes. Libertarians are for freedom and personal choice on all matters. - BuffalOBisoN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Libertarians need to vote for the Libertarian Party if the party is going anywhere. It's pointless to vote Republicrat if you hold libertarian values. Both major parties are offering basically the same thing : Tyranny.
- lordTalus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22The problem is on both sides of the fence. Democrats today, are not the democrats of the past. Both sides are being taken over by...aristocrats. I don't think middle class Americans are well represented in government these days.
We would benefit from lower income taxes, property taxes and laws protecting us from land seizure in the name of eminent domain by private organizations. Middle class America does just fine with the education in America, but the lower class citizens often suffer from poor family life. No amount of education reform can fix a broken/abusive home. No Child Left Behind has created an ungodly amount of testing...that accomplishes nothing more than teachers teaching the test.
Medical care is another major issue in America...why does a bottle of pills cost $500.00??? I don't think the government should offer health care services, but something needs to happen to lower the cost of medical care. The value of the dollar needs to increase.
Does anybody think it's too late to head to California to search for gold? - adam.skinner, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Libertarians are nothing like the present Republican party. Republicans want to increase the size and power of the federal government. So do Democrats. They're two sides of the same coin, squabbling over abortion and socialism, all the while walking hand in hand to increase the power of the federal government, and working outside of their constitutional mandate (the only authority they have to be in "office" anyway).
The Libertarian party and the Constitution party are working to return our government to it's constitutional restraints. They share ground there. The Constitution party is for Christians and people with conservative moral values, and the Libertarian party is for godless liberals who have seen the danger of the usurpation that's been happening for generations in our government. - Slagged, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22You're an idiot.
Your not allowed to vote for everyone you know! - badfrog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Today is the first time ever I did straight-ticket Libertarian. Usually stayed GOP because I want my taxes low and not wasted. They have lost their way.
And the Jesus/gays/abortions crap is just pissing me off and shouldn't be part of any campaigns. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17No, what we need is equal representation to prevent any one party from holding control, but also to encourage change.
If 3% of overall votes go toward Libertarians or some other third party, then 3% of the house/senate should be made up accordingly.
I don't understand why we don't do this. Obviously with only two choices (a third party won't win and doesn't stand a chance) people are torn between picking the lesser of two evils without any real change.
Progression in this country is stagnant, if it's not going backwards by now.
Also, keep in mind Bush is not really a Republican. Republicans are for SMALLER government, less government intrusion, and for small business. Government has become a thorn in our sides, more intrusive, getting bigger and more complicated to maintain and control (eg: the Katrina fiasco with the "chain of command" BS), and BIG business has gotten a lot of benefits since this administration has taken hold. - pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19"Medical care is another major issue in America...why does a bottle of pills cost $500.00??? I don't think the government should offer health care services..."
You can't have it both ways. Either the government helps it's citizens with health care, or it steps back and watches what the free market does. And the free market makes pills that cost $500. - mikesherov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Prediction: Serious Libertarian Presidential candidate in 2012 or 2016.
Basis: The 30 year party overthrow/realignment cycle in the US dictates that a new paradigm/party emerges about once every 30 years in America. It seems the Libertarian party is poised for the job.
Thoughts? - pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Yeah, and they actually support what they say. You know, that whole smaller government, personal liberty stuff that the Republicans like to talk about?
- RuffRidr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I agree. Voting a straight ticket for either Repubs or Demos is just plain retarded. Government isn't some kind of team sport where you root for a team to win dumbass. Use your brain and take a look at each candidates merits.
- MagisterJoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I like this, this 'No True Scotsman' thing. Remember, GWB IS a Republican, he is endorsed by the party, he campaigns for the party, the party has said 'This is our guy.' I think that what is in fact true is that what it means to be a Republican has changed. Barry Goldwater's ideas aren't as present in the party anymore, it's mostly that creepy Nixonian stuff now.
It's fallacious, though, to say that GWB isn't a REAL Republican.
I'm also in favor of the proportional representation plan. It's one thing I think that European legislative systems get right. It ensures a better representation of people's interests. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14@magister joe: I consider myself a moderate libertarian, and I supported Reagan and Bush sr, but can not support Bush jr. Like I've said before: I didn't desert the republicans, the republicans deserted me.
- reed311, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Sorry, but I'm a Libertarian and I hold pretty much no values of the Republican party. The Republican party has been the party of discrimination for many years and Libertarians are the complete opposite.
- TheTankengine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13The Republicans lost Libertarian values the first day they pushed "morality" into legislation.
- badfrog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Exactly! I like guns, low taxes, and PORN!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+27@migbike: Damn straight. That's why I'm supporting the dems this election.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Yeah the democrats aren't ideal libertarians. They have a lot of issues which goes contrary to libertarian values, e.g. censorship & raised taxes.
But that's still not as contrary to libertarian views as gutting the constitution to increase the power and decrease the accountability of the president, complete fiscal irresponsibility, big government, christian sharia, and domestic spying is.
The Bush doctrine is _all about_ increased centralization and control. It is the very antithesis of libertarianism. Except for the tax cuts. - iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13As a libertarian I have to live with voting for what I believe is the lesser of 2 evils and that will ALWAYS be the party that isn't trying to disarm me...
- migbike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@callmegoat
and NONE of the 9/11 Hijackers were Iraqi, or had even so much as set foot in Iraq. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Well, I don't know what everyone elses problem with Hilary is, but my problem is her focus on government control, manifested in e.g. her crusades for censorship. Censorship is _really_ not popular with libertarians.
- Ascus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Yep, am sure the people just smile and nod while they agree with you when you go on yu straight Democratic Ticket tirade.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Political parties are a cancer, it is a damn shame that people can't just look at candidates for their opinions rather than their parties. I don't know how many people here live in Texas, but I find it sad that some people aren't voting for Kinky Friedman simply because they view it as a 'wasted vote'. Is that what we have come to? I know people who are voting for Rick Perry even though they don't like him, simply because they don't think Kinky will win. People, candidates win by YOU voting for them.
- jgeorgeson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"it's mostly that creepy Nixonian stuff now."
Nixon, viewed by todays standards, was a liberal. The Republican leadership of today is made up of Reaganites. - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9yes! the Republicans lost my favor a long time ago...
GWB reminds be of a drunken belligerent wreckless cowboy looking for a fight that is not sure who or what the target is...
i agree with hunting and killing terrorists, but bush's method in Iraq is a mess, instead of occupying Iraq at the expense of thousands of lives and billions of dollars in equipment - i would have sent in a secret undercover death squad and simply assassinated Saddam & his two sons and been done with it and left Iraq so solve their own problems, it is not the USA's job to baby-sit the rest of the world... - withincontext, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Wow, way to prove yourself to be anything but a thinker.
- MaddDog, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Those same pills only cost $50 in Canada. It's not a free market if you're paying $500 in the USA.
- allegedfastluck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8it'd be nice, but the current system is heavily weighted against any third party. the electoral college, ballot access, and gerrymandered districts all seriously impede third party candidates.
that being said, i'd love to see any third party make a strong presidential run. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@corporate70
Since forever... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Libertarian: Less laws, more freedom.
Not anything like today's republicans, republicans are losing votes because they do stupid things like spy on american citizens. - tsf5000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8You're an idiot.
- tsf5000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Its all about the porn.
- inactive, on 02/03/2009, -2/+9Republicans are DESERVEDLY losing the libertarian vote. Maybe that's because I laugh like a banshee when they try to preach "small government"?? The solution, which they won't like, is an abject, tail between the legs retreat from their statism. Compromise is a 2 way street, and libertarians are tired of holding our noses for losers who are even worse big government statists than the Democrats. This situation is unlikely to change very soon, given the attitudes I've seen. They deserve what they get -- loss instead of victory.
- dime, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Democrats are socialists and Republicans are fascists. OFN. Neither are good for this country, and it's only a matter of time before we crush under the weight of our own beurocracy.
I suggest anyone interested in true patriotism watch these videos...
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=badnarik+constitution+class - kevinlw1974, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I have to say, being what I consider a true conservative, I am thoroughly frustrated with the Republicans. They simply are not long conservative. Many of the current members are from the Contract with America class. They have all but abandoned that promise. The problem for me is that I now see very little difference between republicans and democrats. Both are corrupt and I believe they both have the wrong vision for America.
In the past I have shied away from voting Libertarian because I thought I was voting the lesser of two evils by going Republican. This year, I just don't see enough of a difference. The republicans have made a move to the left. Don;t kid you selves people. It is not about the so called right wing values. It is about control and money for both Republicans and Democrats. I really think we need term limits on all elected officials. The fat cat career politicians need to go. They are bad for our country. - kolobcreek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The best joke of the last four years is Hillary Clinton getting religion after the Dems lost big in 2004. So funny. No more than two weeks after the election she mentions the works "Our Bible" in a speech she gave. What a bunch of Johny come latelys. They reason why they keep losing isn't because of religion but the fact people don't like what they are doing in Washington.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Yeah. That's the one thing I don't like about libertarianism. And the one reason I consider myself a MODERATE libertarian - I do care about the environment.
- Ascus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Sadly true, and is why the Green party and the Libertarian party will ever join forces.
- stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You guys are thinking small. The problem is not the players, the problem is the game: There are not enough players in it. With the (for all practival purposes) two party system, we have seen a gradual, and very dangerous merging of their interests through the agency of corporate corruption. Quite frankly, the US is in trouble if any of the political parties get even most of what they want, and that trouble has come to pass in spades with the current Republican domination of all three parts of the government. The value of our political system only exists to the extent that it resists domination and corruption, and we have seen that value reduced substantially by the two party system in recent years. Though I’m a registered Democrat, I never-the-less voted almost exclusively for third parties (usually Libertarian), though I don’t agree with much of their platforms, purely in the interest of disrupting the two party system which has bred the corruption which vexes not only us, but the entire world which looks (or used to look) to us for leadership.
- blujaded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I have to digg you down on that one, because that is the kind of thinking that has perpetuated the status quo. What is wrong with diluting the Dem and Rep parties? Read the posts, and listen to public outrage...do you really think that the majority of Americans are being truly and fairly represented by either of these parties?
We are not a society that would tolerate a one-or-the-other choice in any other area of our lives, why should our most important decisions be so narrowly defined? - FoxtrotYankee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Not a free market because it's $50 in Canada? It's $50 in Canada because of government price controls. The US price is the free market price plus what we pay to cover the price controls of the socialist systems.
- willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The Libertarian view is pretty close to this
http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?AboutType=3&Section=19
However, based on the voting record, there's not a single republican in congress or the white house - dime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5woops!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What's the point of being a Libertarian if you vote for Democrats? Stop lying to yourself and change your party affiliation to Democrat. Of the existing two party system, Dems are MOST afraid of Libertarians and that's why I became one.
- Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The article makes a couple of assumptions that I don't think that are quite right. First, that 15% of Americans hold Libertarian views. It's true the press (and candidates) tend to group people into Republican/Democrat or conservative/liberal (and lately, the correlation between those classes has been pretty weak), but it underlies a general tendency to not give people credit enough to recognize that the majority of people tend to be in the middle somewhere. Most people, if they knew what Libertarianism was would probably think, "hey, that sounds pretty good!', and then they'd look at the official Libertarian party platform and probably step back and say that it goes a little too far (few people I know can swallow everything on the platform). I suspect that many people would best be characterized as moderate Libertarians if only because it's major dogmatic foundation is the ideology: "government ought to just leave people alone," which is very appealing.
To wit, saying that Libertarians tended to vote Republican and that party is losing their votes is a mischaracterization of the situation. The Libertarians are trying to vote for whoever seems to be the most laissez-faire candidate. Sure, there's some ebb-and-flow as to when a particular party's candidates lean a certain way, but the Libertarians don't particularly vote for any party at all (save for Liberatarian, when they have the option) -- they are are voting with certain specific ideological criteria. Neither Republican or Democratic parties have any concerted focus on "leaving people alone" or "shrinking government" or "laissez-faire" -- they've even largely dispensed with the rhetoric around it. So, the Libertarians are just doing their best to figure out who's closest to their position, irregardless of party affiliation.
I'm not a Libertarian, I'm independent, but my own personal views could be fairly called moderate libertarian -- socially liberal, fiscally conservative, antibureaucratic, looking to pare-down and simplify both the law and government (I like the idea, for instance, of making laws hard to pass and easy to repeal, have limits to the size of the legislation, appopriation reform, etc.). - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5pkulak, most Libertarians could care less that the GOP is full of polesmokers. We are pissed because they keep increasing government spending, regulation, and debt. We're sick of broken promises.
The GOP claimed to be against socialism but, increased spending in welfare, medicare, medicaid, and foodstamps. They increased government subsidies to businesses all accross the board. They keep borrowing money to cover the cost of spending.
The democrats talk like socialists, the republicans act like them.
The republicans actions are speaking louder than the democrats words.
Here's what the two parties look like to us.
republicans = socialist + facist
democrats = socialist + anti-gun nut -
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