What is Digg?294 Comments
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -18/+93Pat Buchanan is the voice of reason in foreign affairs. It seems that only those of us who believe in small government are truly advocates of peace.
Big government seems to always include big military, which depends on big arms manufacturers working hand in hand with the Pentagon and the Congress. That combination will ALWAYS result in diplomacy through threat and force > war.
If you wish to avoid war, you will have to be willing to drastically reduce the size of the State's infrastructure - TruthExposed, on 08/28/2008, -1/+34Are not 99% of all wars started by big governments?
I can't remember the Cayman Islands threatening another nation, or Vanuatu saber rattling against Fiji. - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -6/+35There's a great interview of Buchanan here:
http://digg.com/world_news/RussiaToday_Interview_w ... - slavix, on 08/28/2008, -23/+44Everyone who wants to understand what is going in this conflict needs get some info outside the western corporate media! They are misinforming the public about the whole thing.
Please watch this interview Putin gave to CNN, of which CNN chose to show just a few clips.
http://digg.com/political_opinion/Full_Version_Put ...
Also watch this documentary shot in South Osetia during the war.
http://digg.com/political_opinion/Documentary_Tski ...
The amount of disinformation in msm on this is just staggering!
Please read some analysis on what happened and who is behind it.
http://counterpunch.com/whitney08142008.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20 ...
People do your own research and do not buy the lies they are telling you on FOX, CNN and others. You are being neo-conned! - brickbat, on 08/29/2008, -0/+16"What do we do if Russia responds to our Patriots in Poland with the Russian S-300 anti-aircraft system in Iran and Syria?"
Screw that. How about Cuba and Venezuela. - roosevans, on 08/29/2008, -10/+24FTA:
"Mikheil Saakashvili started this war with his barrage attack and occupation of South Ossetia. Russia's war of retribution was far less violent or excessive than the U.S. bombing of Serbia for 78 days over Kosovo, or our unprovoked war on Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which has brought death to scores of thousands, or Israel's 35 days of bombing of Lebanon for a border skirmish with Hezbollah.
Yet, declared John McCain of Russia, "In the 21st century, nations don't invade other nations." Even Dick Cheney must have guffawed." - drewedman, on 08/29/2008, -11/+25living in Los Angeles has it's perks. I don't know one person that doesn't think that the US is wrong on this issue entirely and doesn't not want to start any conflict with Russia. I've had scores of conversations with everyday people in LA and the resounding response is that the news media has got it completely wrong, McCain's got it wrong and Georgia got what it deserves. The fact that S. Ossetia is a free nation now speaks volumes to the Russians and is a serious step back for America, the land of the free.
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -3/+15Wars = Business opportunities
If you are in the LOOP you can profit ridiculously - cygnus2112, on 08/29/2008, -3/+15What are you talking about?
Past few years of conflicts:
Sri Lanka. Congo. Zimbabwe. Sudan. Somalia. Algeria. Iran. Phillipines. Uganda. Ivory Coast. Pakistan. Colombia. Angola/Cabinda. Nepal. Indonesia. Haiti. Solomon Islands. Liberia. Angola. Sierra LEone. Chad. Burundi. Tajikistan. Ethiopia/Eritrea. Fiji.
Versus:
Iraq. Chechnya. Georgia. Kosovo. Afghanistan. Georgia. - ciphex, on 08/29/2008, -6/+18Whether you agree with him on everything or not, there is no denying that Pat Buchanan is incredibly knowledgeable in the realm of political history and modern governments. I read this story a few days ago and was once again impressed by the parallels he draws between modern policy and examples in history. If only today's politicians and policy-makers would pay such attention to the lessons of the past.
For anyone interested in his insight, you can find a lot at http://buchanan.org/blog/
They also have a good collection of his writings at VDARE http://vdare.com/buchanan/index.htm - katjas, on 08/29/2008, -4/+15I like that you have given a mixed bunch of articles. Most Pro Russia diggers just keep submitting links to "Russia Today" or Interfax.
It's nice to see some links that are balanced and well researched. Some .ru and some .com nicely done. - katjas, on 08/29/2008, -1/+11Please stop repeating yourself we get it. You have copied and pasted that four times. Give it a rest.
Your right the US is over stretched as it is and shouldn't keep ***** around all over the world. But stop repeating it over and over. That's spam. - allowners, on 08/29/2008, -2/+12The wealth and the power has accrued to, and concentrated in, private interests. The fiction of Government as a representative of the people is obvious to most everyone now. Only by the de-concentration of wealth and power will things change. The state is only what the power behind it drives it to be. The state is no longer controlled by the people, it is now controlled by private interests. Blaming the state in an era of deregulation that has resulted in a massive transfer of wealth and power into the hands of a few, is confusing the problem for the solution.
- minorthreat, on 08/29/2008, -3/+13When will some diggers realize that people digg up politicians who make sense. Noone pulled a name out of a hat and all sit here and digg that one person... Instead of insulting the general public of digg, realize whats going when other politicians are dugg.
- Berkana, on 08/29/2008, -11/+20There are definitely things I hate about Buchanan, but I must give credit where it is due. He's not always wrong.
- wolfing, on 08/29/2008, -3/+12And that is exactly what we did about 200 years ago, a few years before the civil war. Texas and California wanted to separate from Mexico, Mexico obviously didn't want them to go, but we supported the separatist states... we supported them so much that now they're 2 of our states. Or did you all sleep in your history classes?
- Garmr, on 08/29/2008, -0/+9Correct me if I'm wrong, but losing the entire 6th Army at Stalingrad "essentially ended up costing Hitler the war"?
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -11/+20All right, I'll repeat myself one more time, and I want an honest answer from somebody, "WHAT THE ***** DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH AMERICA, WHY THE ***** IS OUR GOVERNMENT INVOLVING US IN THIS CONFLICT"?
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -1/+9You are quite full of yourself. How do you know what people are doing? Can you see into their homes, do you have their FBI dossiers on your desk?
Participating ing these discussions is not fruitless. Digg now has over a million users. Digg is the first place for Many to see political opinionsthat don't appear on mainstream media. That is important. Many of these people do more than blog and read articles. I certainly do and I know that some on this thread are very active. - poidh, on 08/29/2008, -1/+9Georgia didn't actually slughter thousands of people.
I agree it was wrong of them to subject civilians to a barrage and on that they should be reprimanded, but they didn't slaughter thousands of people.
Russia used the whole thing for a territory grab. Ukraine will be next (Russia has granted the residents of Eastern Ukraine Russian passports and trouble is brewing there too, Russia being behind it of course). - ciaran036, on 08/28/2008, -2/+10Indeed. Excellent interview. Backs up the claims made by Alex Jones in a similar interview with Alex Jones:
http://digg.com/world_news/Western_media_mislead_p ... - ciphex, on 08/29/2008, -4/+11Russia has never been a weak military machine, to think that they are in any way unprepared for war on the largest scale is completely naive. Any serious strategist claiming that this is somehow surprising is outright lying to you.
- cygnus2112, on 08/29/2008, -23/+30The truth = Russian-backed separatists were attacking Georgia villages for a week prior to August 7th and Georgia's shelling of South Ossetia. A full Russian invasion force was ready by the 7th/8th? Look at the timeline:
August 2nd:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L279875.h ...
"It said shooting came from three ethnic Georgian villages, but Georgia blamed the separatists for provoking the clashes.
The commander of Georgia's peacekeeping force in the region, Mamuka Kurashvili, was quoted by Interfax news agency as saying South Ossetian peacekeepers shot at a Georgian village and suspected Russian peacekeepers of taking part.
Georgian peacekeepers and police officers returned fire and repelled the attack, he said.
Georgia's Interior Ministry said nine civilians in the Georgian villages in South Ossetia were injured, while Tskhinvali said up to 15 were injured on its side, up from seven reported on Friday. Kokoity put the number of injured at 13.
"This is another attempt by the separatist side to involve Georgia in a military conflict," Georgia's state minister in charge of re-integration, Temur Iakobashvili, told reporters in Tbilisi before leaving to visit the shootout area.
"The Georgian side was forced to return fire," he added."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tskhinvali
"Timeline before Russian Army interfered
August, 1 till 7 - preparation of both sides (Ossetian and Georgian):
* information exchange about attacks on Georgia-controlled villages (Avnevi[citation needed]; Tamarasheni[citation needed]; Prisi[citation needed]; Kurta[citation needed])"
http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_cont ...
"Aug. 7, 10:30 p.m.: South Ossetia breaks a cease-fire agreement with Georgia, according to the secretary of the Georgian National Security Council, Kakha Lomaia. Lomaia said the “separatists opened fire at the two Georgian villages of Prisi and Tamarasheni.”"
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L7395385. ...
""Separatists opened fire at the two Georgian villages of Prisi and Tamarasheni, and we had to return fire," the secretary of the Georgian National Security Council Kakha Lomaia told Reuters.
A Reuters reporter could hear and see the renewed fighting."
August 5th:
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080805/115774293.html
"Tbilisi earlier said the shelling of South Ossetia's capital, Tskhinvali, and a neighboring village had been provoked by the rebel region.
South Ossetia's leader said Monday at least 300 North Ossetians had already arrived in the breakaway region, with up to 2,000 expected."
August 6th:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080807/wl_afp/georgi ...
"A Georgian armoured personnel carrier was destroyed by South Ossetian militants near the village of Avnevi one hour ago and three Georgian peacekeepers were wounded as a result"
http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_i ...
"That scenario started unfolding in South Ossetia in late July. By August 6 and 7, heavily armed proxy troops opened fire on Georgian villages, while the secessionist authorities refused to talk with Tbilisi. The attacking forces began destroying the transmission antennae of Georgian mobile telephone systems. Arms and paramilitary groups poured in from Russia to South Ossetia through the Russian-controlled Roki tunnel. Russian officials in Georgia claimed that the attacking forces were out of Russia’s control. Officials in Moscow, meanwhile, justified the attacks directly and indirectly by accusing Georgia of aggression (Interfax, Itar-Tass, Russian Television, August 4-7)." - logosx1, on 08/29/2008, -0/+7Yes, what Georgia did was within its own borders -- but so was what Serbia did when the U.S. began bombing it. The fact that we prolonged and exacerbated the Serbian conflict makes Russia look more justified than the U.S., not less.
- Theisos, on 08/29/2008, -2/+9This is pure speculation especially considering that those pipelines don't run through South Ossetia. You seem to have fallen prey to the Western mass media's speculation over stray bombs getting very close to those pipelines. Is it inconceivable that Russia could have carried out covert operations to destroy the pipeline and blame the destruction on stray bombs? Your view is utter nonsense. The situation is more complicated than oil. America had its own motives for being diplomatically hostile toward Russia - it's painfully obvious that their actions have nothing to do with Eastern European stability. America has chosen to not speak with Russia over this matter and try to reduce escalation - which says a lot. Your diminished view dismisses America's role in this mess and their refusal to handle the situation as a viable mediator.
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -3/+10My point is not that small countries are less likely to go to war. My point is that the united states is much less likely to go to war and much less likely to practice the politics of intimidation if we have a relatively small govt.
- Theisos, on 08/29/2008, -0/+7A build up had been happening for weeks before this attack - by both Russian and Geogian troops. All of this was done under the guise of training by both sides. It is not far fetched to believe that Russia simply moved in response to Georgia's own military mobilisation - suspecting a military attack on South Ossetia. We have already heard from multiple media sources that Georgia was emboldened by America's input into their military - enough so to believe that South Ossetia could be taken by military force in opposition of an agreement between themselves and Russia and jointly keep the peace in South Ossetia. It is clear that whatever the case is - the Georgians gave Russia the excuse. They struck first and they paid. Now - it is up to Europe, America and Russia to sit down together and find a away to clam the situation - America needs to stop this diplomatic hostility or it won't end here. Is that not a simple understanding?
- arjie, on 08/29/2008, -0/+7Guys guys, he means a small government not in the sense of the size of the country, but in the sense of a limited government which governs only as much as necessary and leaves the rest to local governments and citizens.
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -10/+17I heard that McCain's poll numbers having been going up because he has been threatening war with Russia over Georgia in a conflict that is none of Americas ***** business. If these polls are to be believed, what the hell is wrong with the American people. Americans have become freedom hating imperialists. It is like when the ancient Romans cheered when the Roman army would slaughter people who opposed them. Americans are going to get the government they deserve, and they are going to get it good and hard.
- poidh, on 08/29/2008, -23/+30"Mikheil Saakashvili started this war with his barrage attack and occupation of South Ossetia. Russia's war of retribution was far less violent or excessive than the U.S. bombing of Serbia for 78 days over Kosovo, or our unprovoked war on Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which has brought death to scores of thousands, or Israel's 35 days of bombing of Lebanon for a border skirmish with Hezbollah."
Hmm, Pat Buchanan must be an idiot if he belives what he is writing.
Anyway, maybe I should set him right:
1. Russia grants citizens of a foreign country Russian passports.
2. Russia moves its forces to the border with said foreign country.
3. Separatists in the region of Georgia in question attack Georgian civilians and troops.
4. Georgia retaliates, not in the best of ways, with too much force. But, it does have the right to retaliate.
5. Russia has the excuse it needs to send in its troops to "protect its civilians", even though of course they are not its civilians. Simply granting citizens of a foreign country passprts to your country doesn't make them citizens of your country, you dumb bastards.
6. Gullible Western hand-wringing idiots swallow the Russia lies hook line and sinker. - norman619, on 08/29/2008, -0/+6Aren't 99% of all wars started by governments?
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -5/+11No, Americans have become idiots. Most Americans wouldn't even understand the term imperialists.
- ell0bo, on 08/29/2008, -2/+7Well, I'm guessing you're from the US so like all of my friends you have no idea about history. Sadly our schools believe history is simply academic, and not worth the actual lessons it can teach us. History class now get taught at names and dates, not meanings behind action and reaction.
WW1, begins by separatists assassinating a prince, and then Austria moves in to quell what it considers an uprising in another country. Due to a series of treaties, all nations of Europe are suddenly pulled into war. WW2, Nazi Germany annexed Austria, and no one said anything. Germany then invaded Poland (with the USSR), and although war technically broke out, no one did anything even then. They hoped in vain that Germany would be appeased by taking back Poland (which by the way had the world's greatest cavalry at the time). Well, it wasn't long until Germany paraded through Paris.
Also, look at how the USSR was build, the absorption of nations into the 'Iron Curtain'. You can't allow a nation to grow by slowly picking apart another sovereign nation. Appeasing them only emboldens them, this is the lesson I have learned from watching history.
That being said, what we did in attacking Iraq I always felt was wrong, when before we attacked. It feels too much like American Imperialism again, although I do support what we're trying to do in Afghanistan.
Read some history books, you'll understand why we are getting involved. - inactive, on 08/29/2008, -0/+5To all the geographically challenged commentators above.
The United Sates is not in danger of a military challenge from anyone. We never have been since making peace with Great Britain in 1812.
The Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor did not in any way threaten the continuity and well being of the Continental United States.
We will not be invaded from the North and unless Mexico changes course dramatically we will not suffer a military invasion from the south. If we did, we wouldn't need much military might to drive the invading Mexican Army back across the border.
Could we be invaded through an amphibious landing in California or New Jersey?
Impossible, absolutley impossible. With a military that is 20% of what we spend now, we would still spend more than anyone in the world and could defend this country against any attack. I do not suggest that we get rid of our ICBMs. We still need to make sure that all nuclear powers know that we are capable of massive nuclear retaliation.
We only need 20% (actually a lot less would suffice) of our military to defend the USA. All the rest of our toys serve to "project force" in other words to attack other countries. That 80% needs to be cut out of the budget, so that our military stays right here in America.
Europe should take care of itself, same with Korea and Japan. We do more harm than good by policing the world and we are bankrupting the USA
Less military - way less - will make us MORE secure because we won't be "over there" poking the hornets nest. - dkapuchino, on 08/29/2008, -2/+7Reality check:
South ossetia is part of Georgia. This was an internal battle.
Israel-Lebanon war started over an Invasion of Lebanese militants, INTO Israels recognized borders, the killing of almost 10 soldiers and the kidnapping of 2. The response to the kidnapping was very proportionate, but it caused an escalation of events. After Israel responded by attacking Hezbollah military posts, they decided to start firing thousands of Rockets into Israel's nothern cities, putting 2 million (About a third of Israels population) in bomb shelters for over 35 days. - AndreiOttawa, on 08/29/2008, -2/+7Death to Russia? WTF? You really need to get out of your mom's basement more often. Even better, get out of US and see the rest of the world.
- gasoline, on 08/29/2008, -4/+9Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything. The puppet government of South Ossetia is made up of former FSB (Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation) officials - and they'll count this time.
Oh I wonder, what the result will be? - record200, on 08/29/2008, -3/+8American business worried as U.S. weighs sanctions on Russia. Business suffers from all that tension.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/9774154 ...
Who is going to profit from hostilities? The US oil industry only. - inajeep, on 08/29/2008, -6/+11Putin is our source of info on this? I'm sorry but your going to have to do better than that. I rarely trust what a leader says and Putin is up there with Georgie W as far as truthiness in my book.
I do agree that western media is misinforming the public but maybe by their own ignorance much like what little we knew when we were told Iraq is a threat. The SO and G conflict was largely unknown to the general public over here. - Gutterpunk, on 08/29/2008, -2/+7FAIL
in fact, DOUBLE FAIL! It's on the front page right now, and Digger digging FOX News? uh? That was an automatic fail right there. - phoenixshard, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6You're saying the western media is biased and then link off to other sources that are biased towards the west. That shows great research. Yes sir, it surely does.
- DarkShroud, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6Yes. The world expects us to clean up all the messes and then complains when we do. We're damned when we do and we're damned when we don't.
- feeldarhythme, on 08/29/2008, -0/+5Recognition by Russia is enough for them.
Now Russia can build a proper military base there, and they can be sure, that Georgia won't make another try. - draculthemad, on 08/29/2008, -20/+25Georgia is involved in building oil transports from the rest of south east Asia that bypass Russian control.
BP and others in a consortium have spent BILLIONS building these pipelines. The Russians tried to bomb it repeatedly during the conflict. They've been putting landmines on the rail routes that are being used for oil transport as well.
The entire ethnic Ossettian population in this region would fit in a single stadium.
This is not a war about their welfare. They are going to be outright annexed by Russia as soon as politically feasible.
The entire conflict is about Russia showing that they can cut off oil/gas transport to Europe at will, even if they have to use force to do so.
America's response and handling of our Georgian allies has been botched as usual.
The Georgians should have never blundered into giving them an excuse.
Their apparently heavy handed approach to this, gave the Russians enough of a hook to hang this on.
That Russia had that much military force ready and waiting to go and we did not know about it means someone was seriously asleep at their desk. - CSheikh, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6I don't know where in Russia you are talking about? My girlfriend is half Ukrainian and half Georgian (with some Russian mix). Their friends in Moscow and Kursk are all saying the same, namely it is Georgias fault. Their friends in Karkov, Kiev and Tbilisi are saying the exact opposite. Even amongst the Soviet immigrants in the U.S. the feelings are similarly divided.
When I was in Moscow in May, I can tell you that everyone I met was heavily in favor of Putin. - DopplerDuck, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6If they don't learn from history, they'll just repeat it.
- inactive, on 08/29/2008, -4/+91.- Georgia was not taken by the ussr, it was taken by the Romanoffs 200 years ago. Georgia had conquered the Osettians a bit before they fell to Russia.
2.- If there exists a moral claim for a people with distinct language, history and ethnicity to be able to choose their own destiny, then how does the size of the state that they wish to secede from have any bearing on their moral right of self determination? Serbia is a country considerably smaller than Georgia, but we bombed Serbia for three months to alllow the very tiny province of Kosovo separate.
3.- there is a philosophical principle called the universailty of morals. It means that your morality is not moral is it depends on circumstance. Moral relativism is actuall amorality. If you want to use a moral argument to justify Georgian independence, you can't deny it to Osettia. - justjoehere, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6Why does everyone forget that South Ossetia is a part of Georgia? No different than Virginia being a part of the USA. This isn't like Georgia attacked Russia.
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 08/29/2008, -1/+5The capital was leveled because it was first shelled by Georgia, then shelled by the Russians when they retook it.
- element21, on 08/29/2008, -0/+4The Russians were not caught asleep at the job. They apparently had been aware weeks before the conflict that Georgia was going to launch an offensive against S.O.
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