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144 Comments
- thegrantman, on 03/30/2009, -15/+73This is a perfect example for the argument against a larger government and for the overhaul of the legal system.
- EMFK, on 03/30/2009, -10/+61FTA: "In February, an overzealous law governing lead in products resulted in toys going from store shelves to the trash heap. Now, confusion over how the rules affect children's books has led some libraries to rope off kids' sections."
FTA: "The agency hurried to say it didn't mean to tell libraries to toss the books, but that it is "investigating" whether there are unsafe lead levels."
Most of us are probably in violation of this law in one form or another. If our government isn't sure what they're requiring, then how the hell are the rest of us supposed to know. - JDBagley, on 03/30/2009, -13/+50Pelosi is kind of a nut, isn't she?
- bazimo, on 03/30/2009, -3/+26So which "libraries" are roping off childrens' sections? The article doesn't mention a single one, only "some". I didn't see any roped off sections at our county's main library branch this weekend.
- Blinker1315, on 03/30/2009, -10/+31What nonsense. When will dim-witted partisans realize that Murdoch's acquisition of the WSJ hasn't affected the paper's editorial page one whit. The same edit would've appeared under the old ownership as well.
- chinaman1212, on 03/30/2009, -14/+34Oh thank god! I don't have to be a parent any more. The government is doing all that for me now.
- dandandantheman, on 03/30/2009, -2/+19Pffft books. I pass literature down orally to my children. That doesn't sound right but I'm gonna post it anyway..
- thelastcivilian, on 03/30/2009, -4/+21Today's journalism doesn't require "facts."
(Sad, but true!) - UberGeek404, on 03/30/2009, -12/+28Palin was pilloried for banning books (which she did not.)
Will Pelosi get away with making books illegal because of the bindings? - gte879p, on 03/30/2009, -5/+21No it's pretty much an accurate article. biased against Dems or not, it's factual.
This law is incredibly broad and intrusive. If you make a product that's for, or might be used by children, you have to test it for lead at a government sancionted facility to prove it is safe.
Now you might think that this is for specific toy manufacturuers in china... but it's not.
It applies to -everyone-.
What about people who make home made clothes and sell them on etsy.com? They have to get tested too.
What if you just make one home made item and sell it on ebay? It has to get tested too.
And this doesn't just affect small mom and pop operations. The big stores have to spend millions to restock, and recheck their inventories. This is a law with severe macro economic reprocussions that were given no fore-thought.
Sound rediculous? A little too far fetched? Before you digg me down (for offhandly disagreeing with me, and not because what I am saying isn't true) reply with a link disproving me. I assure you that it is rediculous and far fetched. But it's true. - bierce, on 03/30/2009, -8/+21congress is the only place someone with a room temperature IQ could be the speaker.
- alais, on 03/30/2009, -3/+16kind of?
- thelastcivilian, on 03/30/2009, -5/+17Side-effect of the Botox
- N3M3515, on 03/30/2009, -5/+16This is just yet another show of how big gov ***** up everything it sets its hands on. Why do you think people have lost faith in the financial systems? Probably because no one knows WTF the government is going to do next, they are changing the rules during the game. We no longer have capitalism, we have a nationalism/socialism type environment.
- FearlessFreep, on 03/30/2009, -10/+21Buried you for not recognizing stupidity past party lines
- diadelsuerte, on 03/30/2009, -13/+23Pelosi doing something stupid because she thought it would gain her some (nominal) national exposure?
Color me surprised. - Jamihabs, on 03/31/2009, -3/+13Ubergeek didn’t ignore anything. He simply pointed out the irony that Palin was pilloried for banning books, when she never banned a single book for any reason, and Pelosi will probably not be held accountable for this effective book banning debacle.
- SoCalDissident, on 03/30/2009, -2/+12Unfortunately, it didn't affect just toys. The motorcycle industry is being hit really hard by this since it's vaguely written, so even parts that aren't exposed to children (spark plugs, etc) have made motorcycles and ATVs illegal to sell
- MWeather, on 03/30/2009, -0/+9It's perfectly legal to posses toys or books containing lead. The law just covers sales and other forms of distribution.
- Jamihabs, on 03/31/2009, -2/+11Are YOU retarded? The article is about how the legislation is so poorly written that its difficult to know how to comply with the law.
- catxors, on 03/30/2009, -2/+11I think it's fair to blame both government and the financial sector. Not surprisingly, both are elites who consider themselves answerable to no one (e.g., try to unelect Pelosi).
- FearlessFreep, on 03/30/2009, -3/+12"Why do Blinker's submissions always attract freepers"
*sigh* I'm getting tired of this kinda remark.
My nickname comes from a nickname I got as a kid and is based on a character in a Bugs Bunny/Yosemite Sam cartoon ("Fearless Freep", the high dive acted tat never showed). It was a childhood nickname and I've since used it in a lot of online contexts.
I didn't even know what the term "Freeper" meant until someone else accused me of that and I had to google it and found the "Free Republic" reference in at urbandictionary. but I am definitely not a "Freeper" in that meaning of the word.
Politically, I'm closer to be anarchistic(with an understanding that anarchy would never really work) - chainsawd, on 03/31/2009, -1/+9God I hate what our government has become.
- PopcornDave, on 03/31/2009, -0/+8@dusanmal, it seems that it doesn't matter how well or poorly crafted legislation is - nobody ***** seems to read anything they vote on anyway.
- evilbob333, on 03/30/2009, -5/+13I thought it was an example of media driven hysteria leading to bad laws being passed. But the big government thing is pretty good too.
- aurorous, on 03/31/2009, -3/+11The CPSC own official clarification on the second hand clothes said "You don't have to test them, go ahead and sell them but if we ever find out that anything ever had lead in it you'll be put out of business." quite a sword of Damocles hanging over the head of the Goodwill and Salvation Army for the next few decades. And that was before they said anything about books or motorcycles and god knows how they're gonna handle that.
So this is what it's come too... if information doesn't appear in "official party publications" it's automatically false
With myopic idiocy like this we are SO *****! Limbaugh and Hannity to the right, ridgewalker76 and Zomgondo to the left. both sides happily willing to see the USA in ruins as long as their party gets to preside over the rubble.
Anyone else notice that the people here defending the law are framing it as "OMG you want children to die of lead poisoning!" NO we don't! Reasonable smart people want a law that protects kids AND won't turn every single transaction related to children into a potential lawsuit. Somehow I don't think the Salvation Army has a secret division trying spike lead into every one of their toys, so why are we treating them as they are? That;s the law that was passed and Nancy Pelosi stood up and happily took credit for this law so she deserves the responsibility. - alamedaman, on 03/30/2009, -8/+16this is what happens with unnecessary government intervention into the economy. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.
- SacraBos, on 03/30/2009, -0/+7I don't like Obama, but I certainly recognize this as the Democrats going overboard and passing a bad piece of legislation with a "think of a children" mentality, ironically without really thinking of the children.
- tyho, on 03/30/2009, -5/+12It's amazing, from day to day it's hard to say who's the bigger idiot, her or Reid.
We got to take the power back from these loser politicians. - inactive, on 03/31/2009, -1/+7Eaten too much lead paint eh tebriel1? You seem to speak from experience.
- PopcornDave, on 03/31/2009, -2/+8You're just supposed to know, even if they don't and they can't tell you. It's your responsibility as a library or whatever business/organization.
I know it sounds screwy but that's the way these idiots work. They can't tell you what's safe and what's not but they'll sure as hell fine you if they find anything that they can't tell you the rules about. - catxors, on 03/30/2009, -0/+6@Aroundtown27
I agree, but I think the structure of government tends to produce poorly written legislation. Legislators are not selected for policy expertise or legislative skill, they are selected for political connections and media manipulation skill. - Aroundtown27, on 03/30/2009, -10/+16I think this is more of an example for the argument against poorly written legislation.
- goes211, on 03/31/2009, -1/+7Maybe because a smaller government would find better things to do like national defense or stopping real crimes like murder/rape/theft...
- whiledo, on 03/30/2009, -1/+7The examples matter pretty significantly. The whole crux of the article is that some libraries are interpreting the law to mean they have to rope off the children's section. If the answer is "a couple of small town libraries managed by complete idiots", it kind of undermines that whole argument.
No matter how well you write a law, people can still be WRONG. - fmello, on 03/30/2009, -4/+9When I was 4 I never had the urge to eat a book. Maybe Pelosi's kids were morons. Also, I recently saw a local news story about kids motorbikes & ATVs & because of the fear that kids might decide to eat their bikes, stores can't sell them costing 1 billion in lost sales. Also that only leaves bikes meant for adults which ironically have stickers on them that state that it's dangerous for children to ride.
- kd1s, on 03/31/2009, -0/+5It is the law of unintended consequences. When I worked in state government I was always good for explaining the negatives and why we shouldn't pursue a given policy.
Kind of why I don't work in government anymore. They do some truly stupid things in government. Just a casual perusal of the legislative drafts is enough to tell the story in my state.
I often say we ought to craft a civic service test for incoming elected officials and legislators. If they don't pass the test, they can't put their name on the ballot. Seriously, some dumb as bricks people in government. - StonerThomas, on 03/30/2009, -1/+6@whiledo:
Bearing in mind I'm not even sure if this is what they're interpreting wrong. Just using it as an example.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR040 ...
"Requires each manufacturer of a durable product for infants or toddlers under five years to provide consumers with a postage-paid consumer registration form, maintain a record of consumer contact information to improve recall effectiveness, and permanently label the product with the manufacturer's name and contact information, model name and number, and the manufacturing date."
So ok. What's a "durable product"? (Google doesn't know: http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=%22dura ...
Do thick, cardboard books count? What about antiques no longer actually used by toddlers, but originally intended for them? You get the idea.
Bills are rarely bulletproof, but this is just shoddy. - StonerThomas, on 03/30/2009, -1/+5If you expect newspapers to cite sources, or give real details, you're going to be waiting for a long time.
Most likely, it's just one or two libraries(or an exaggeration). But I think you're kind of missing the point.
The example doesn't really matter. The interpretation of the bill(and the problems with how it was written) are a lot more significant.
Just because the government enforces a poorly written law in a reasonable fashion now, doesn't mean they'll always enforce it that way. Fix it early. - tyho, on 03/30/2009, -6/+10Yes. Just feed those little tykes a little HopeNchange™ , It's good for 'em.
- kingofinternet, on 03/30/2009, -8/+12i remember when the wall street journal was a reputable paper.
- chinaman1212, on 03/30/2009, -1/+5Sarcasm?
- MWeather, on 03/30/2009, -3/+7Party has nothing to do with it. Newscorp releases daily talking point memos to it's media properties, telling them what to focus on.
- goes211, on 03/31/2009, -1/+5It does not matter if it is enforced. If it is on the books and they can use it as a threat to get compliance for other things.
If they have no intention of enforcement, why have the law? It only serves to make people feel more comfortable breaking laws that they feel are unjust. - inactive, on 03/31/2009, -0/+4They don't call her "Nasty Pelosi" for nothing.
- motivatedguy, on 03/31/2009, -0/+4"They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em..." - Rage Against the Machine
- goes211, on 03/31/2009, -0/+3"let's not go crazy and go back to where we were before."
Why not? Have millions of people gotten lead poisoning in the "last 25 years"? We had asbestos & lead in our schools and homes for generations. We had kids riding bicycles with out helmets and riding in cars without seat belts and it seems that most people turned out ok. Might even have been a little sturdier than the current generation.
I am not saying I would drive around in a car with an infant like my parents did but in my state you need to have a car seat until you are 8 years old or 80 pounds. These booster sears provide no extra protection according to product testing services and are therefore a complete scam.
I would not knowingly buy any product containing lead for a 1-2 year old but this type of nanny statism is going to do far more harm than good. Does anyone do any sort of cost to benefit analysis before they propose this stuff? - Fubeman, on 03/31/2009, -7/+10Where were all these "hating" Diggers when I had to throw away 3 of my kids toys 'cause they had lead poisoning 36 times allowed by U.S. law? Or where were they when my neighbor had to take his kid to the hospital for lead poisoning because of no regulations when it came to anything made for kids outside of the U.S. (which is just about everything these days)? It seems a lot of diggers love to hate on Pelosi just because it's Pelosi. That's fine, but this ridiculous article is just that - ridiculous.
So for the last 25 years we had no oversight it seems when it came to lead content in ANY of our products made outside the U.S. borders (or very, very little), but now it seems inconvenient? While I agree that the law needs to be better written and have more concrete clarification in it, let's not go crazy and go back to where we were before.
Is it me or is it something lately where every conservative pundit, newspaper, etc. is trying to get Pelosi on everything from this to the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby? I'm no crazy fan of hers either, but this is getting ridiculous.
Man, they really need to let her go. - FearlessFreep, on 03/31/2009, -2/+5"So, this isn't you?"
Umm...no - Chahrlie5, on 03/31/2009, -1/+4LOL, it's annoying when the people you support in office have voices of opposition isn't it?
Get used to it, it's our turn now. -
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