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- Calann, on 11/11/2007, -27/+138I have always questioned the term "Islamofascism". Every definition of Fascism that I've ever seen says that one of the elements is strong nationalism. What nation are these "Islamofascist" supporting?
I think it's just a very inflammatory propaganda term that conservatives have come up with in order to frighten people. - synarchy, on 11/11/2007, -33/+128In this case, Krugman is right. The neocons claim they want to make war with Iran to protect us from "Islamofascism", but don't even have the will to properly police the border. Meanwhile, why is it the job of the American people to make everything right everywhere in the world, generating the enmity of the world, while Russia, China and our Euro "allies" hang back, do deals, and take pot-shots? The Saudi's have plenty of money; let them hire Blackwater on their own dime and take on Iran under their own name.
- inactive, on 11/03/2007, -31/+101The word "Islamofascism" is a stupidity marker. If you use that make-believe "word" as if it had meaning, you are stupid. Don't expect those of us with brains to take you seriously.
- Munkym, on 11/11/2007, -11/+75Dugg because I'm a history student. It DOESN'T exist. Does extremism exist? yes. Islamic Extremism, yes. Islamic Fundamentalism, yes. But for goodness sake, stop trying to pair it with a "moral crusade" evoking word Fascism. Fascism is an offshoot of Nationalism. Nationalism CANNOT unite Persians and Arabs because they are wholly different, warring people groups and Nationalism tends to promote one group over another (in a simplistic explanation). Extreme, authoritarian Nationalism (read: Fascism) would have just as much a chance to unite Africans and Aryans under 1930's Germany as Arabs and Persians of today. Not to mention the fact that the typical Muslim is a rice farmer from South East Asia... only 10% of Muslims are ethnic Arabs. Don't slander Muslims or pair Islam with Fascism because there is sectarian strife between Persians and Arabs (which has existed for, quite literally, centuries). Read a book. It's amazing what you can learn.
- Oakes, on 11/11/2007, -29/+65Fascism has a specific meaning. It comes from the Latin "fascis," meaning bundle (of sticks). According to the analogy, each "institution" of society, such as family, business, and religion, are bundled together by an all-powerful government. It is distinguished from communism in that the government doesn't OWN all property, it simply CONTROLS all property by proxy.
The single group that has misused the term most is not neocons, but left-wingers, particularly the more radical bent found on the social web. EVERYTHING they don't like is labeled fascist, be it the Bush administration, cops, or the RIAA.
"Islamofascism," although often used as an unthinking pejorative, makes infinitely more sense than the aforementioned usages. Islamic states like Iran and Saudi Arabia very closely fit the definition of fascist states - most industries, such as the press, are not directly owned by the government, but controlled by proxy. Oil is an obvious exception. - preisler, on 11/02/2007, -6/+39No! We already have words for that - Islamic fundamentalism or Islamic terrorism. This word is another attempt to use some the very strong imagery of Hitler and Mussolini for something that is not really related at all. The worst about this, and that applies to the constant use of the word fascism by left-wingers, Alex Jones fans and paulites too, is that it makes the second world war and the Holocaust seem less serious. When Bill O'Reilly calls Dailykos or democrats Nazis and Stalinists the words lose all meaning.
- swrostmore, on 11/02/2007, -7/+36Thats a straw man, what's being argued isn't that there are no islamic terrorists but that their comparison to European fascist movements in the 30's is not a valid one.
- RollFizzlebeef, on 11/05/2007, -7/+32By the way, starting off by calling the other side children isn't exactly an adult argument.
- kageki, on 11/05/2007, -10/+34Fine then deal with real-world problems of countries that actually do have nukes like N. Korea, Pakistan, India and Israel. Deal with the problem of the depreciating dollar and the economic squeeze everyone in the US is feeling. Deal with the immigration problem.
Please do over-inflate the non-existent threat of Iraq and Iran and be completely incompetent at capturing Osama. Stop blaming everything on Clinton and own up for once. - pintomp3, on 11/05/2007, -6/+29it's a made up word to scare people into thinking there is some huge group out there that wants to convert them. that term can be slapped on christianity just as easily and accurately, but the truth is that it only applies to a small subset of each religion. a classic tactic of hate-mongers, racists, and bigots is to paint an entire people with the actions of a few.
- RollFizzlebeef, on 11/05/2007, -13/+36The adults that are occupying two countries in the Middle East and failing miserably?
The grownups that have the economy on the verge of recession?
In that case, I'll leave it to the "children", thanks. - Gabberwok, on 10/31/2007, -7/+29When Clinton responded to terrorist attacks, you guys accused him of doing it only to distract the country from the important issues - such as exactly how many BJs he received from Monica. If there is anyone more responsible for 9/11 than Bush, it is Kenneth Starr.
- SpykerSpeed, on 11/03/2007, -6/+28So now we're debating semantics. It's sad what this country has come to. The military is for defense, not for invasion and occupation.
- pintomp3, on 11/11/2007, -7/+28look out! there's one behind you!
- physphd, on 11/02/2007, -3/+24Preisler is spot on. Please don't surrender so willingly to kindergarten lever neuro-linguistic programming. Words create reality - demand they be accurate.
- sgtpppr, on 10/31/2007, -3/+20It's just a weak strawman. Vast majority of americans won't support fascism and most americans correlate 'fascism' with 'nazism'. It allows 'alies' to dehumanize the enemy so that killing really isn't killing. Just like killing Hitler wasn't really killing.
- Corrosionx, on 10/31/2007, -3/+19The ones who are angry at the U.S. are angry because the U.S. has been killing their friends and family and destabilizing the region for years, not because we don't have the same religion as them.
- inactive, on 11/02/2007, -3/+18"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
- Terr01, on 11/03/2007, -5/+20Quibbling over the word is actually meaningful, because calling it "Fascism" in a blatant attempt to resurrect some sort of ghost-of-WWII-germany is intellectually dishonest and warps the ability to have a meaningful discussion on what's best for America, both as a nation and as a set of principles.
- sandman979, on 11/05/2007, -5/+20The problem is that the machine that fuels Fascism is Corporatism, which is missing in Al-Qaeda.
- savetheusa1, on 11/05/2007, -14/+28That word just sounds made-up. They couldnt of come up with anything better than that?
- Terr01, on 10/30/2007, -4/+17"BannedTwice"? Interesting name. Let me tell you, it doesn't seem far fetched hearing you talk.
Theocracy is not Fascism. "Islamofascism" is a mislabeling.
Going ape-***** over "Islamofascism" as being the bastard child of "COBRA" which the 101st G.I. Shmoe Right-wing bloggers must battle, with Bin Laden with "Mini-Mullah" sitting in a cave in a volcano plotting his World Domination Caliphate", is the sign of fearful individuals with weak minds. - Timetheos, on 10/31/2007, -2/+15The Shia and Sunni consider each other heretics...so much for a single nation.
- Dumbledorito, on 11/02/2007, -3/+15In case you haven't noticed, our current polices aren't fixing the problem of terrorism. By most accounts, we're creating more terrorists with our military adventures than we're defeating in the first place.
- ZenMojo, on 10/31/2007, -6/+18Last time I checked there were a lot of Christians just like that.
- Timetheos, on 11/03/2007, -3/+15Good luck getting the Shia/Sunni/Arab/Persion to unite under a single flag...
- mille716, on 11/02/2007, -5/+17You've totally missed the point. Its not that they're "good" people, its that the term facisim doesn't properly correlate to their goals and actions.
- Timetheos, on 10/31/2007, -2/+14And Hindu Nationalists, the IRA, the KKK... would NEVER do any sort of terrorism... NOT
Radicals are Radicals and do not impugn those they supposedly "fight for" (Muslims, Hindus, Irish Catholics, whites...) - Munkym, on 10/31/2007, -2/+14Yes, I've heard of the tooth fairy too... just because its a coined term, doesn't mean it reflects the way the world is.
I would love to hear your argument for Islamic Nationalism, but if you are going to argue it, please include specifics. Islamic Nationalism where? What ethnic groups are pushing for it? Is it a Middle East thing? Western Africa? South East Asia? India Subcontinent? If it's everywhere, then why is there such a schism on doctrinal beliefs and practices relating to unification... if it were a real phenomena, one would think reparations would be made and unification would occur... but all I see is Sunni/Shi'a turmoil, IED's, etc...
Please, enlighten us. I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. - walkingdogs, on 10/31/2007, -5/+16Thats what us reasonable people are trying to do. Deal with real problems, such as our weakening dollar, our record national debt and trade deficit, global warming, repairing our tarnished worldwide view. The notion that the islamic countries are going to take over and convert europe, let alone the world, and force us to become islamic is laughable.
This isn't ancient times where the persian empire ruled a good part of that region and forced all that disagreed into slavery. This is the 21st century and the powers of the world do not exist in the middle east. There is a small group of pissed off islamic radicals that are trying to fulfill some ancient religious prophecy and unfortunately our leader has the same crazy belief but on the other side of the coin. The thing you neocons have not figured out is that they have no military might. No navy, no airforce,no nuclear weapons, no long range missles, no wmds, hell they barely have rpg's and machine guns.
So for you to believe that these nations who can't even stop bickering among themselves are going to join forces to spread some ideology around the globe is laughable. The other thing that you have to figure out is that the rest of the world holds the future of the middle east in their hands not the other way around. If the major industrialized nations would wise up and get off of oil, the middle east would fairly quickly sink back into the middle ages again. They would have no economic clout anymore and would have no power in any shape or form. Besides the european community is becoming more secular for a reason and the last thing they are going to do is take up islam which is even crazier than the christian religion they are starting to shun in the first place.
The only power that the middle east has is that our leaders feed us garbage that they are a threat to us so that we give them carte blanch to wage an illegal war and make billionaires out of their corporate buddies and hold the illimformed of us hostage in some made up threat we are supposedly told to be afraid of. - scorchedearth, on 11/05/2007, -5/+16http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/showdown/
Watch this episode of Frontline. Iran helped the US take the Taliban down by providing some intelligence and simply 'staying out of the way.' Things were actually moving in a positive direction until Dubya made his 'axis of evil' comment. - sgtpppr, on 11/03/2007, -7/+17That sucks bad, but what does that have to do with being a fascist? Militant religious fundamentalism and extreme nationalistic corporatist government regimes are not the same thing. If they want to be consistent, then I guess they are implying that basically every middle eastern country without 100% free elections are the enemy. Which means I guess we need to bomb about 95% of the middle east starting with the whole Arabian peninsula.
- Vermifax, on 11/03/2007, -3/+13It's short for "Neo-Consrvatives". The Latin prefix "neo" means "new" and, considering the group described, very appropriate.
NWO, anyone? - mrurc, on 10/30/2007, -0/+10Dude, Hilter killed himself. You should look in a mirror.
- physphd, on 10/31/2007, -4/+14That's debatable.
Iraq had just finished fighting a decade long war against Iran with our overt and covert support. It was costly in lives and money, and Kuwait enjoyed Iraq's protection from Iran without contributing any money at all. On top of that, Kuwait was caught red-handed slant drilling across the border into Iraqi oil fields, so Iraq made some provocative statements about those actions. US Sec.of Def. Dick Cheney said publically that the US would view any Iraqi military action in Kuwait as "an internal conflict in the Arab world." We gave them the green light to invade. But when Saddam began over-pumping and exporting beyond the OPEC quotas to pay for more military action, the US publicly condemned the hostility - on the same day the OPEC production numbers were made public!
I fought in Gulf War 1 and didn't appreciate until years later how we were maneuvered into that war too, by the exact same cast of characters that did it this time - Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, etc. The same people playing the same games !
Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War - inactive, on 11/01/2007, -3/+13So does every religion.
- pintomp3, on 11/02/2007, -7/+17if killing innocent people is the hallmark of fascism, then we aren't exactly on a moral high ground.
- inactive, on 10/31/2007, -10/+19the Neocons and the think tanks influencing and molding this country's policies are the only fascists here.
- inactive, on 10/30/2007, -3/+12read my comment above: LUKE 19:27
also try looking at Luke 12:49 and Luke 14:26. - Munkym, on 10/31/2007, -1/+10Well, when your whole argument hinges on the word "Islamofascism" and what it entails, you better believe I'm going analyze the word. The big picture is, some Americans in power are using inappropriate language to describe the situation (using words that have severe connotations that are in no way tied into the predicament at hand). You can't prescribe an action if you don't understand the situation. Let's analyze what's going on, document it appropriately, then execute an action. Measure twice, cut once.
- jmpeagle, on 11/01/2007, -9/+18there is theocratic fascism such as former Taliban controlled Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia but Islamofascism doesn't exist as religion is supposed to trump any sort of nationsalism what so ever.
- scottc, on 10/31/2007, -1/+10Krugman does not say that in the article. He does highlight how foolish Romney looks talking about a "single jihadist Caliphate".
- opencity, on 10/31/2007, -5/+14The rest of Krugman's piece nails it. 'greatest threat ever' !?! Illiterates are easily confused by throwing 'Hitler' around as if I relatively well organized gang of maybe 10,000 tops (before Iraq) compares to one of the great industrial powers of the world. The next so called Conservative who mentions Munich has to write a paper on Gross National Product.
That said, there are Islamic facists, if you want to stretch the definition, and they are scumbags. They are way less than .01 percent of Muslims. You might as well be talking about the dangers of Cathlo-pedophilia or assuming all right wing hate radio hosts are dope fiends. - WoollyMittens, on 10/31/2007, -12/+21In Nazi germany and fascist Italy you were intimidated, beaten and murdered for having a different political view.
In nations under sharia law you are intimidated, beaten and murdered for having a different religious view.
You can call it whatever you want, if semantics are that important to you. - pintomp3, on 10/31/2007, -2/+11neither is islam. there are passages in both the bible and the quran that say to kill non-believers but the vast majority of practitioners don't follow them literally.
- Lindane, on 10/31/2007, -2/+11Them and the Christofascists.
- Timetheos, on 10/30/2007, -2/+11And what history is that? Don't tell me you're going back to the crusades?
- TexTurboesq, on 10/31/2007, -1/+103000 people died under Bushes watch in NYC, PA and DC because of ignored info, ***** intell and inter agency foolishness. The Buck stops at the presidents desk. Deal with it.
- scottc, on 10/31/2007, -2/+11No one is ignoring that. The discussion is about the fabricated label which doesn't apply to the situation.
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