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212 Comments
- Landthatilove, on 02/16/2009, -9/+55FTA:
"On Friday, a power outage new Cincinnati facilitated a burglary at Arcade Antiques & Guns where thieves stole $19,000 worth of firearms. This highlights, once again, that the bad guys don't get their guns through legal means and that one gun a month laws, closing nonexistant gun show "loopholes", fingerprinting, waiting periods, ballistic "fingerprinting", etc. don't stop them from obtaining guns. Similarly, police broke up a burglary ring in Parma Heights where crooks were allegedly targeting guns in homes.
Now, some will argue that if all guns were banned and gun shop weren't in business that this wouldn't happen. Of course, that's like trying to stop drunk driving accidents by banning cars. Not to mention the fact that drugs are illegal, yet criminals have easy access.
Take Antonil Whitaker, for example. He's currently wanted by the U.S. Marshals for armed robbery and home invasion. With an extensive criminal history, including drug trafficking, Whitaker could never pass a background check at a gun shop. He cannot acquire firearms legally, yet he still has them. Gun laws don't disarm the bad guys, just the good guys.
A few weeks ago, I wrote about my belief that gun safety training should be taught in schools.
Friday afternoon, an Elyria woman was walking with her kids when she came across what she thought was a toy gun. When she picked it up, it discharged. Fortunately, nobody was injured. Perhaps if she had received firearms safety training, she would have known to keep her finger off the trigger and would not have unintentionally fired the gun.
Also in Elyria, a fight erupted outside a bar Saturday night that ended with shots being fired. Too bad guns are banned in bars, or that wouldn't have happened. Oh wait, they are. Huh, it's almost as if laws have no effect on criminals."
But the gun law lobbyists are making so much money! It's kinda like the race baiters with thier "thought crime" laws. If they actually stopped promoting racism, they'd be out of a job. - tikidrummer928, on 02/18/2009, -2/+39"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."
--Thomas Jefferson
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
--George Washington
Digg me down, I really don't give a *****. The American Revolution would have never happened if firearms were not available, and a militia was not present. It gives power to citizens against our leaders that nothing else can. I want guns to remain legal so I can keep leverage against my own government. - BioHMMWV, on 02/18/2009, -3/+37I am reminded of what a cop once said" Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away." This was on a pro self defense/gun web site. You get his drift.
- killthekingx, on 02/18/2009, -3/+28Guns have nothing to do with crime rates. Poverty and despair do.
Can you guess which issue hasn't been on the front page 3 times today? - Gump9005, on 02/18/2009, -5/+27It's funny, really. When the same ***** that advocate gun-control get victimized they always seem to "see the light" and buy a gun. I've read that kind of story a hundred times.
- mbtria, on 02/18/2009, -8/+30For a good view of just how effective gun control is in a nation similar to ours, consider the case of Great Britain which has continually more stringent gun control, but the number of murders continue to rise. It hasn't solved the problem, knife attacks have more than replaced shootings. Maybe after knives are banned, they can ban socks and sand -- after all, they can be put together to make a lethal cosh.
- RuffRidr, on 02/16/2009, -7/+27Bullets are really not that hard to make.
- Typhoon2009, on 02/18/2009, -1/+16Maybe it's anecdotal evidence but honestly just look at DC's crime rates in the 90s. Guns were banned throughout the 90s yet homicides were through the roof. We were murder capital of the USA at one point.
- Mothrog, on 02/18/2009, -3/+18You're right. Instead, the Brits just stab each other to death instead. And yeah, Australia and Asia may have lower homicide rates, but countries like South Africa and Mexico have plenty of homicides despite strict gun control, and places where firearms ownership is common like Switzerland can also have low homicide rates.
- theonlywizdum, on 02/18/2009, -1/+161911, for when 911 isn't fast enough.
- haikuFU, on 02/18/2009, -5/+19You antigun people are going to be the first to die if ***** goes down.
- chickenbig, on 02/18/2009, -1/+15I'll second that (serious comment - no pun intended!)
- Kosh, on 02/18/2009, -2/+16If guns are being sold illegally than what is the point of having laws banning guns? Maybe I am not understanding your argument...
- spyd3rweb, on 02/18/2009, -3/+15If your children are blowing their own heads off you have not taught them proper gun safety.
- NealKasper, on 02/18/2009, -2/+14Yes, like banning the internet would dramatically reduce the amount of retarded comments like yours.
- scamper22, on 02/18/2009, -0/+12the best example of the futility of gun control:
Israel is unable to stop the Palestinians from making rocket launchers.
Seriously. Making a gun is not that hard. Even if by magic, we disarmed everyone, stopped all shops from selling guns... two sources of guns would remain.
1. bad cops. Suddenly a shipment of guns becomes worth millions...
2. people will make their own guns (like they make their own drugs). You can't control every small metal workshop in the country.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/218006
Here's some recent cases in the Toronto area of kids just making guns for fun. - omgwtflawl, on 02/18/2009, -1/+13London has 5 times the violent crime rate of New York, despite having a similar population and demographics. I wonder why?
- Mothrog, on 02/18/2009, -0/+12"Also in Elyria, a fight erupted outside a bar Saturday night that ended with shots being fired. Too bad guns aren't banned in bars, or that wouldn't have happened. Oh wait, they are. Huh, it's almost as if laws have no effect on criminals."
The guy never argued that having everyone armed in a bar would be a good thing. He just pointed out that guns are already banned in bars in every state I can think of, but yet a shooting still happened despite that ban because bans are only followed by law abiding citizens - the ones that wouldn't be running aorund having shootouts in bars. - BioHMMWV, on 02/18/2009, -1/+12And if bullets cost $1 K each it will be too expensive for criminals to buy. Unfortunately, they would then have to resort to stealing the bullets, or obtaining them from the black market in Mexico.
But, then wouldn't citizens be the only ones without bullets?
- mrdecember, on 02/18/2009, -0/+10You're painting an obscenely incomplete picture. First of all, read the fine print at the bottom of that link you posted. Here are the highlights:
"The July 1st 2005 population estimates for Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi do not reflect population changes that occurred after Hurricane Katrina on August 29, 2005. The populations of these three states and of Orleans parish in Louisiana, Baldwin and Mobile counties in Alabama, and George, Harrison, and Rankin counties in Mississippi were reduced following Hurricane Katrina; East Baton Rouge parish in Louisiana had an increased population. As a result, 2005 death rates for these areas (except East Baton Rouge) calculated using these population estimates will be too low; the death rates calculated for East Baton Rouge will be somewhat too high. Death rates for Orleans parish are especially affected. Alternative population estimates for these areas are being developed by the National Cancer Institute and will be available on their web site soon.
Causes of death attributable to firearm mortality include ICD-10 Codes W32-W34, Accidental discharge of firearm; Codes X72-X74, Intentional self-harm by firearm; X93-X95, Assault by firearm; Y22-Y24, Firearm discharge, undetermined intent; and Y35, Legal intervention involving firearm discharge. Deaths from injury by firearms exclude deaths due to explosives and other causes indirectly related to firearms."
So to summarize, the list you posted includes legal intervention, homicide, suicide, accidental discharges, and "assault by firearm." And these statistics are ONLY for 2005. One year data is not statistically significant.
I put together the list below using the CDC's website, organizing the numbers by rate of firearm homicide from 2000 to 2005. The first figure just to the right of each state is what Xilium posted. The second figure is the CDC's number -- again, for rate of firearm homicide from 2000 to 2005 in each of the states and D.C.
United States - 10.3
1 - District of Columbia - 23.8 - 25.66
2 - Louisiana - 18.8 - 10.07
3 - Alaska - 17.4 - 3.68
4 - Montana - 16.9 - 1.73
5 - Nevada - 16.3 - 5.02
6 - Tennessee - 16.1 - 5.51
7 - Mississippi - 16.0 - 7.11
8 - Alabama - 16.0 - 6.65
9 - Arizona - 15.7 - 6.04
10 - Arkansas - 15.7 - 4.99
11 - Idaho - 13.9 - 1.44
12 - New Mexico - 13.9 - 4.40
13 - South Carolina - 13.8 - 5.31
14 - West Virginia - 13.8 - 3.04
15 - Wyoming - 13.5 - 1.47
16 - Oklahoma - 13.2 - 3.59
17 - Kentucky - 13.0 - 3.32
18 - Missouri - 12.9 - 4.60
19 - North Carolina - 12.8 - 5.18
20 - Maryland - 11.8 - 6.98
21 - Georgia - 11.8 - 5.24
22 - Colorado - 11.5 - 2.44
23 - Virginia - 11.5 - 4.16
24 - Indiana - 11.1 - 3.99
25 - Texas - 11.0 - 4.17
26 - Pennsylvania - 10.8 - 3.85
27 - Oregon - 10.7 - 1.62
28 - Michigan - 10.6 - 4.89
29 - South Dakota - 10.2 - 0.67
30 - Florida - 10.0 - 3.58
31 - Utah - 9.9 - 1.29
32 - Ohio - 9.6 - 2.91
33 - California - 9.5 - 4.92
34 - Kansas - 9.3 - 3.01
35 - North Dakota - 9.0 - 0.89
36 - Delaware - 8.9 - 2.75
37 - Washington - 8.8 - 1.92
38 - Wisconsin - 8.5 - 2.32
39 - Illinois - 7.9 - 5.28
40 - Maine - 7.7 - 0.66
41 - Nebraska - 7.7 - 1.66
42 - Minnesota - 6.9 - 1.48
43 - Iowa - 6.7 - 0.89
44 - Vermont - 6.7 - 0.81
45 - New Hampshire - 6.5 - 0.64
46 - Connecticut - 5.3 - 1.81
47 - New York - 5.2 - 2.92
48 - New Jersey - 5.1 - 2.65
49 - Rhode Island - 3.6 - 2.04
50 - Massachusetts - 3.4 - 1.38
51 - Hawaii - 2.2 - 0.75
Pretty big difference. I averaged up the firearm homicide rates for all of the shall-issue states (where you can get a permit to carry if you have no history of mental illness and no criminal record). It came to 3.38 per 100,000.
I did the same thing for the may-issue state, which generally are no-issue in practice. Along with those, I added in places where it is basically impossible to carry or even obtain a handgun. They came to 4.9 per 100,000.
So. Shall-issue: 3.38. May and non-issue: 4.9.
But what you really need to look at to get a more complete picture is the CHANGES in crime rates that occur when a state changes its gun laws.
For example, Texas became a shall-issue state in 1996. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports for that state, from 1960 to 1995, their murder rate was 12.02. From 1996 to 2007, it was 5.74. In the period of 1996 to 2007, Maryland’s (basically a non-issue state) murder rate was about 40% higher than Texas’.
In 1987, Florida adopted shall-issue CCW laws. According to the United States Uniform Crime Report State Statistics from 1960-2007, after a nearly three decade long climb in violent crime rates starting in 1960, Florida’s violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants began a sharp decline in 1987 that continues to the present.
But hey, ignore it if you want. I hear ignorance is bliss. - emestamid, on 02/18/2009, -2/+12instead of trying to fix the world by creating even more laws further restricting freedom while increasing the scope and breadth of criminal enterprise, why don't we simply open our eyes and realize you can't control other people, we can only control ourselves.
once society realizes the need for self discipline and responsibility instead of promiscuity and self indulgence, gun deaths as well as homicides all together will drop shortly after. after all, people kill because they are angry and hurt, not because they have the capacity to act. - scamper22, on 02/18/2009, -1/+11No, crime has to do with having no morals or honor.
I can walk you through the most ghetto slum in India and you will not be killed. At worst, someone might try and pick pocket you.
Or I can take you to South Africa, where someone10x richer than the ghetto in India will stab you, rape your wife, and burn your face with an iron.
This is not a racial thing. It's just a reality. People can be in poverty, but still have reasonable morals and honor. - dvs249, on 02/18/2009, -2/+12And what state (or in this case district) has by far the highest incidence of firearms deaths? Washington DC. At the time this data was compiled (2005) DC had an outright ban on all handguns, the most strict control in the nation, yet the incidence of firearms-related crime was sky high.
Same thing happened in the UK and Australia when handguns were banned.
"If guns are outlawed, outlaws will have them" - chickenbig, on 02/18/2009, -2/+12Maybe your buddy ObaMugabe has something to do with that.
- machocheese34, on 02/17/2009, -2/+11its a joke
- theonlywizdum, on 02/18/2009, -0/+9There was an article last week about a pastor that got shot, now he caries a .45.
- boothash, on 02/18/2009, -1/+10Digg's just a promotional tool nowadays.
- Ebacherville, on 02/18/2009, -4/+13Switzerland has automatic weapons in the hands of all adults , and there all trained to use them , lowest crime in the world.. why? every one is armed and trained ... and has there army weapons n there home.. the crooks know they will end up dead.
If you want to spout off statistics you better be prepared to see the counter statistic.
What it comes down to is cars kill far more people in any given time fram than guns, so lets ban all cars..
Guns as cars are just tools and they dont kill people people do it either by action or inaction.. its not the guns fault its the peoples fault.
the reason we have guns is the defend against a government thats is opressinve and to defent your life libery and property.. its plainly clear int he 2nd amendment. - chickenbig, on 02/18/2009, -3/+12You've been spending too much time with the Brady Bunch again. So tell us something. Do we have an unalienable right to self defense or not? If so, tell us how YOU define it?
- bobbknight, on 02/18/2009, -1/+10From 1950-1993:
-The firearm-related death rate among U.S. children
under 15 was 12 times higher than among children
in the other 25 developed countries combined.
This includes kids shooting other kids and kids caught in crossfires with bad guys that are already breaking other laws.
-The firearm-related homicide rate in the U.S. was nearly
16 times higher than in all of the other countries combined.
This number includes the bad guys shot by the police. Not an honest number!
-The firearm-related suicide rate was nearly 11 times higher.
Higher than who? I one country where you are required to have a fully-automatic rifle and serviceable ammunition that firearm is used to kill it's owner by his own hand.
...but who needs gun control?
Mexico?
Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
----------------------------------------------------------
The CDC has been proven to skew statistics to favor it's anti-firearm view.
After 1993 the numbers take a dive even though more firearms are in use, isn't that interesting? - Cloned, on 02/18/2009, -2/+11What's with all the gun control articles today?
- mcquitty, on 02/18/2009, -0/+8Other stats from the CDC:
Deaths by type: Guns
Year - 2005 Deaths - 30,964 (all)
Year - 2005 Unintentional Deaths - 789
Year - 2005 Suicides - 17,002
Notice, over half (17,002/30,964 = 54.9%) were self inflicted. 789 were unintentional, such as kids playing with guns, accidental shootings.
Death by Transportation:
Year - 2005 Deaths - 47,894
Death by Poisioning:
Year - 2005 Deaths - 32,691
Death by Alcohol:
Year - 2004 Deaths - 21,081 (excludes accidents and homocides)
Now, how about the following:
Number of deaths in the US in 2004: 2,397,615
The leading causes?
Heart disease: 652,486
Cancer: 553,888
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,074
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 121,987
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 112,012
Diabetes: 73,138
Alzheimer's disease: 65,965
Influenza/Pneumonia: 59,664
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 42,480
Septicemia: 33,373
So, under half of all deaths caused by guns were unintentional or homicides. The rest were suicides.
Of course, more people drowned (3,308), were killed on RVs (951), fell (18,807), accidentally poisoned (20,950), and were pedestrians killed (5,976) than all the unintentional deaths. Hell, some of those are more than all the homicides by guns. Should we ban them, too? - deathandtaverns, on 02/18/2009, -1/+9I like to read those stories too, have a link?
- onthetrail, on 02/18/2009, -4/+11People ask why All the talk about gun control lately,Because Obama is talking against people owning guns,
This is a great freedom we have,and have had always,We are united States of America this is the land of the free the great men that have fought in wars for this country,So yes I think guns are patriotic and also used for homes,and sports,in this country people do have this freedom,and right. Seems everything is getting shoved down our throat lately,
And much is not right,
We are not to be ruled by one side,only! Speak out!! - NealKasper, on 02/18/2009, -1/+8Yes, banning cars would also mean you'd be pedaling your sisters bike everywhere.... you would want that would you?
- deanjarvis, on 02/18/2009, -2/+9I am so tired of this gun control carp, we have bigger fish to fry.
- sturmgiest, on 02/18/2009, -1/+8Guns were banned in DC in 1976. The crime rate has gone up ever since. I wouldn't call that evidence "anecdotal".
- mcquitty, on 02/18/2009, -0/+6Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked. Prescribes license application, issuance, and renewal requirements.
Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearms transfer reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of sale system.
But then again, maybe I am fear mongering reporting a bill that Bobby Rush of Illinois has introduced? - mcquitty, on 02/18/2009, -0/+6Well, for me, it could HR45 being introduced by Bobby Rush of Illinois, one of the highest crime districts in the nation, with some of the strictest laws. Ironically, he's a former Black Panther with a record related to firearms.
His law would outlaw owning a gun without a license, send you to jail if you don't report a stolen firearm in 72 hours or not reporting a move to the Attorney General within 60 days, or privately selling a firearm. - qwertydvorak, on 02/18/2009, -0/+6actually, that story about the chimpanzee is the perfect example of a need for people to have guns. if you listen to the 911 call, it takes police exactly 9 minutes to even show up. if someone were to break into your house you could easily be dead in under 9 minutes. i am sure that they will draw a pretty chalk line around you, and hang some nice yellow tape around the house once you are dead. the police are only useful for doing paperwork after something has happened.
- BioHMMWV, on 02/18/2009, -2/+8Probably because, after the election, there are a lot of new gun owners out there who happen to also be Diggers. I am one. I realized ( after a couple of months of gun ownership) that honest, members of of society have become too defendant upon the idea that a cop will magically appear to save me and my family in the event of an emergency. And that by Black belt in the martial arts does not mean jack if I have to go up against a couple of armed assailants, or a surprise attack. Even if the bad guys are only armed with knives.
- Demand911Truth, on 02/18/2009, -2/+8Even people who dislike guns should realize that it is a matter of freedom that affects us all. If the 2nd amendment gets invalidated, who is to say the 1st won't be next?
- sturmgiest, on 02/18/2009, -2/+8Because I have a constitutional right to own a handgun?
- dvs249, on 02/18/2009, -3/+8If everyone in a bar had a handgun, nobody would use them. How many times has a violent shooting occurred at an NRA meeting where EVERYONE has guns?
- Cloned, on 02/18/2009, -1/+6Isn't it funny how Digg is biased to the left, except when it comes to gun control? I agree with you, Bio, I'm even a new gun owner myself. It's just that until now, Digg's gun control opinion was mainly expressed in the comment thread in articles that were somewhat related to guns. Now we're getting full blown articles about it.
I'm glad people are speaking up. - charlietuna, on 02/18/2009, -0/+5I think the US has enough gun laws. We just need to do a better job of enforcing the existing laws. Yeah, I'd like to see the 50 caliber Barrett legal in all 50 states, but I'm not taking up that argument.
If existing laws are not being followed or enforced then adding new laws will just exacerbate problems. - maxtangent, on 02/18/2009, -1/+6The whole point of a Republic is that mob rule does not change the fundamental principles it was formed under.
The Constitution is clear and any attempts to 'interpret' it are merely attempts to subvert it. - dvs249, on 02/18/2009, -1/+6You are partly right. Yes, generally the urban poor (not necessarily black) are committing the vast majority of gun crimes. However, most of the crime committed is through the use of illegally acquired guns. If somebody is a convicted felon (most urban poor who would potentially commit a gun crime are) they cannot legally obtain a gun.
Making gun acquisition and carry easier for a law abiding citizen does not make it any easier for a felon to acquire a gun. Disarming law-abiding citizens is counter-productive because those who break the law will always have guns. Someone has already said this in one of the comments here, but it is worth saying again. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." - sturmgiest, on 02/18/2009, -2/+7Switzerland is more civilized than your own country, they have just as many guns as we do, and they don't kill each other. Swimming pools are statistically 500 times more dangerous than guns to children.
- mst3kcrow, on 02/16/2009, -5/+10Bullets are very easy to manufacture en masse. Interesting little story below as to how one group made bullets outside the law.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Societ ... -
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