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21 Comments
- ZWarren69, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9To remind some....
Scandal at NASA - Censorship of Scientific Research by Bush Appointee
http://www.talkingtree.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/2/8/Censhorship-at-NASA - shawnfassett, on 10/11/2007, -4/+11Why are we at the mercy at the bottom-of-the-barrel 28 percenters in this country? They seem to hate science until they need an operation or have a medical emergency (or a GOP-hussy facelift). They seem to be against Hollywood liberals until Fred Thompson comes to save their sorry asses. They hate pornography until they are found to be starring in some with the child down the block. They hate government "handouts" for the poor but they LOVE gov't handouts for their own companies. Pathetic.
- diggerydood, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12The assault on reason continues.
- kschramm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6No, NASA's administrator is a political appointee and therefore requires no experience, credentials, or common sense to land the job.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Context: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070531073748.htm
What is wrong with NASA? - diggerydood, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7thcobbs
If your house is on fire and you don't know what caused it, is it still on fire? - hexodeci, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4wow, im sorry he represents so many talented people at nasa
- aceg1357, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Fact: The earth has been much hotter and colder than it is. In essence the earth is in flux and ALWAYS has and ALWAYS will.
Fact: The earth has seen dramatic increases and decreases in temperature. In Essenes the earth is in flux and ALWAYS has and ALWAYS will.
Fact: Scientists in the 1970's said that there was a grave concern that we would tumble into an ice age. JUST 30 years ago!!!!! In essence, scientists make mistakes, ALWAYS have, and ALWAYS will.
Fact: Remember we NEED some greenhouse gases to keep the earth warm enough to have life. CO2 contributes 3.6% to those gases. Man contributes 3.2% of that 3.6 % making a grand total of .12% of green house gases. THAT is is drop in the bucket.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaruherald/4064691a6571.html
If you really want to blame something for global warming, may I suggest looking up at that huge ball of fire, the sun, that has been the primary cause of cooling and warming over the past billion years. Just a suggestion. Just because we have a Billion years of historical evidence that the sun has been the main culprit, don't let that stop you from thinking way way way outside the box.
I would still bet anybody that in 30 years the scientists, desperate for grant money, and media, desperate for an earth ending story to sell, will be in a craze about global cooling. Yes that is right just like they are in a craze about global warming now and were in a craze about global cooling just 30 years before that. - aceg1357, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well when the link you provide says in their topic sentence that yes indeed the earth has been much hotter and much cooler, yes it was pretty darn easy to prove my point. And again thank you for making the point again although I believe 99% of people are informed enough to already know that fact. I guess you are in the minority. That is why I didn't provide any links, I thought most Diggers would be informed enough to know these simple facts or actually, God forbid, do some research on their own. I can only assume you are either, deficient in your reading comprehension skills to never notice that even the article you linked to proves my point in the topic sentence, never read the articles yourself, or you are blinded by your love of the global warming charade so much you instantly turn off your logic center.
- zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@aceg1357
Nice try at the ol' spin machine, but it is pretty clear you didn't actually read the links. I'm guessing you looked for one or two sentences that you could take out of context and claim to make your points. Points that you never even provided original links to. But then I didn't provide those links for you, they are to let other readers make more informed choices.
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462 - pintomp3, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Fact: civilization has existed only existed during a small band of this temperature scale.
judging by your comment history, your reasons for not acknowledging the effect of global warming are strictly partisan and ideological. the argument of "the earth has been hotter before" is the most idiotic line of rhetoric. the earth was a lot hotter and cooler a long time ago. but our current eco system is a very complex balance, everything from the rainforests to mountain tops to oceanic life are connected. this system has some corrective measures in the balance, but we have drastically altered this balance in the past 50 years. it's not just CO2 emissions (though that's a huge part). we are also eliminating huge swaths of rain forests which take in a lot of CO2. we have been polluting our rivers and oceans, flooding them with fertilizers that throw off the balance of life. as the ice caps melt even more and overall ocean temperature rises, the deep ocean currents will be altered, drastically changing our weather. basically, the earth has been less hospitable before, but why would you want to go back to that? - zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2And while your at it, have a look at some evidence discrediting this so-called "documentary"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2032575,00.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656640542976216573
A few answers:
1. Why is Mars and Venus also warming at the same clip, is it becuase of OUR polluton on Mars?
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11642
2. Why did most of the warming in this century happen before 1940?
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11639
3. If metorologist are so smart why were they hollaring about "The comming new Ice Age" in the 1970's
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11643
4. Why were global temperatures in the middle ages warmer than they are now?
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11644
And for any other answers for questions you might have:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462
It's great how you had absolutely no evidence to back up your questions either... - zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Wow, what a great link you provided /sarcasm
"Fact: The earth has been much hotter and colder than it is. In essence the earth is in flux and ALWAYS has and ALWAYS will."
"Fact: The earth has seen dramatic increases and decreases in temperature. In Essenes the earth is in flux and ALWAYS has and ALWAYS will."
Response:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11647
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11644
"Fact: Scientists in the 1970's said that there was a grave concern that we would tumble into an ice age. JUST 30 years ago!!!!! In essence, scientists make mistakes, ALWAYS have, and ALWAYS will."
Response:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11643
"Fact: Remember we NEED some greenhouse gases to keep the earth warm enough to have life. CO2 contributes 3.6% to those gases. Man contributes 3.2% of that 3.6 % making a grand total of .12% of green house gases. THAT is is drop in the bucket."
Response:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11655
And for all of your other "facts" which aren't based on anything it seems, here are some additional responses based on peer reviewed, published, scientific evidence.
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462 - danielbachhuber, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Global warming, climate change, and climate crisis aside, it's really about the living space we've created on our planet. Think about it. If our world starts changing itself, with some sea levels rising and some falling, then all of the infrastructure we've put in place has to be moved. That's costly, and thus is the reason "climate change" is such a big deal.
- zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1from an earlier post by rationalist in direct response to this exact same argument by the exact same person:
1.) The denialist claim you are parroting has been debunked many times. Here is one reputable source of information:
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11659
Since I know you will not bother to read the article, let me summarize the key points for others in the audience:
A) No climate scientist makes the claim that CO2 was the precipitator of global warming after previous ice ages; nor does the evidence (actual contemporary measurements) suggest that we are currently in the normal period of CO2 rise at the end of the last ice age.
B) Evidence that CO2 is a greenhouse gas is based on physics, not correlations with past temperatures. What the geohistorical record tells us is that CO2 and temp track closely, and that, while the initial spurt of CO2 levels at the end of an ice age was the result of warming, the roughly 4,000 years of warming that follows is, in turn caused by raised CO2 levels.
There is further explanation in the article about how the CO2-temp-CO2 cycle is understood, if you care to read.
2.) Interesting that you choose not to include the extension of that very same chart in slide 10 of that very same presentation, which includes more recent data, showing CO2 levels rising off the charts.. Perhaps you'd like to put that up for the audience? Thanks. - bigbang14, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0which link are you refering to because everything i can get my hands onto on the internet says that these myths you are spreading are just that. secondly, there is no need to personaly insult zeroeffect, its not his fault that he is right. finaly, if there is even that slightest chance that climate change is a reality, which i think even you can agree there is, then isnt it best we stopped using fossilfuels. after all, they are running out.
- thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -8/+8How is it an assault?
The guy honestly says that he's not sure.... because we don't have evidence of what is the exact cause of global warming... (if you just say it's due to greenhouse gas emissions, you are greatly over-simplifying earth's climate).
So, if we have no evidence of what the actual cause is, how are we to know if it's a problem, or if there's anything we need to do about it? - dshPls, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1http://nasaconspiracy.ytmnd.com/
Don't fall for the trap! - aceg1357, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1@zeroeffect
Your response link#1 : "It is certainly true that Earth has experienced some extremes that were warmer than today, as well as much colder periods."
Thank you for proving my point with yet another link. /sarcasm
Your response link #2-
Never talked about the middle ages per say. Still wondering why you included it.
Your response link #3 "Indeed they did. At least, a handful of scientific papers discussed the possibility of a new ice age at some point in the future, leading to some pretty sensational media coverage "
Thank you once again for supporting my point. /sarcasm
Your response link #4-
Again not on subject and says nothing to counter or affirm that fact since it is off topic.
Response to link #5. Well it is "evidence" to some I guess, just like my link although mine actually has scientific facts in it unlike yours. It is published just as my link, and that particular link is not peer reviewed as you stated.
@pintop#3
My outlook on this issue us based on science, common sense, and critical thought.
"the argument of "the earth has been hotter before" is the most idiotic line of rhetoric. the earth was a lot hotter and cooler a long time ago. but our current eco system is a very complex balance"
You have to get rid of the idea of equilibrium and balance. Has there ever been a constant environment on the earth? No. Has there ever been an ecosystem that was not complex? No. Every past ecosystem was forced to change due to the earth's constant flux. You do know that the earth will be in flux again and the "complex" ecosystem will have to adapt again? Actually it is in flux as we write. This will all happen with or without humans. You seem to admit this yet discount this obvious fact. - compulsive1, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4I went to James Hansen's website http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/ and downloaded one of his newest documents:
Global Warming:
The Threat to the Planet
17 April 2007
2007 Leo Szilard Lecture
Jacksonville, FL
American Physical Society
On page 5 there is a nice temperature versus CO2 and CH4 graph showing last 400k years.
I copied the CO2 graph part (blue) and overlaid it on top of the temperature graph (red) in Fireworks.
Here you can see the result:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/31/hansongraphje3.jpg
you can clearly see that CO2 follows temperature even in this low res graph, where a pixel represents around 700 years.
This is just another confirmation that CO2 (manmade or not) is not the cause of global warming. - bhouglan, on 10/11/2007, -11/+5The only assault on reason is from the man made global warming crowd. Go to youtube and watch the BBC documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and see some of the lies Al Gore used in his movie. Global warming is not about saving the planet it is about control of citizens and business by Government. Warming is happening but its not our fault, it is that nasty bandit the sun!
A few questions:
1. Why is Mars and Venus also warming at the same clip, is it becuase of OUR polluton on Mars?
2. Why did most of the warming in this century happen before 1940?
3. If metorologist are so smart why were they hollaring about "The comming new Ice Age" in the 1970's
4. Why were global temperatures in the middle ages warmer than they are now?
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