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- PoizonFrog, on 03/17/2009, -11/+43I suppose it plays into GOP hands if obstructing the elected government in a time of crisis is their agenda...good luck selling that platform to moderates, minorities, the youth vote, and independents in 2010.
- Blinker1315, on 03/17/2009, -10/+41This is what happens when there's a VERY close election. Voter fraud, by both parties, is exposed, which tells you that voter fraud is probably involved in almost every single election, but isn't caught because the winner is clear. You'd think after 2000 that electoral reform would've been pushed by both parties, but it's not in their interests.
- novenator, on 03/18/2009, -8/+28The end *should* be clear in sight. After all this time, the state of Minnesota still has only 1 senator. Why?
Norm Coleman stated for everyone to hear after the razor-close election that if he were behind by 200 votes, he would not pursue a recount. Fortunately, the wise citizens of Minnesota have a state law that mandates a recount for any election even remotely as close as this.
After the recount, Al Franken won. Now, the neo#diggcons and their republican puppet masters say that there was some type of cheating involved, but the recount was done in a air of complete transparency for nothing else but to avoid ridiculous accusations of this. Look at the record, Franken won. Coleman's lawyers now drag this out in the courts with frivolous lawsuits, not because they think they can win, but because they think the longer they can deprive MN of it's 2nd US Senator, the longer they can obstruct Obama and the movement for reform in this country. - Semblance, on 03/18/2009, -3/+22The day after the election, horseface Coleman said that Franken should drop out for the good of everyone. He should take his own advice!
- AdeleMor, on 03/17/2009, -2/+21i'm still amazed there's nothing in place to ensure that a state is represented appropriately in the senate at all times. it's insane!
- ThsGuyRightHere, on 03/18/2009, -7/+23"Party leaders say they are digging in for a prolonged legal process, keeping Democrats from claiming a seat they think is theirs -- and hampering the majority party's ability to push through its agenda."
If they know that Franken is the rightful winner but they're still taking action to prolong the court case and deny Minnesota their representation in the Senate, wouldn't that make them enemies of democracy? Just curious. - inactive, on 03/17/2009, -2/+16How is Norm Coleman the "outsider"? He was already senator. If anyone wasn't supposed to win it was Franken.
- michaelpinto, on 03/17/2009, -9/+23I think it damages Coleman in the long run: If you look at Gore vs. Bush today, Gore could run for any office in the land. He's got the statesmanship thing going for throwing in the towel after a certain point. Frankly the only reason that Coleman won in the first place was the outrange over the behavior at the Wellstone funeral. People were pissed that the Democrats felt that they owned the seat — frankly Coleman is doing the same thing.
If Franken turns out to be a disaster at this point Coleman can't come back in a few years without looking like a sore loser. Also did you ever see that Iraq debate with Coleman and the far left British guy? Coleman just came across as unintelligent — he'll always be associated with that war and the Bush administration. Add to that pending corruption charges and his future doesn't look bright. - snickerdoodle84, on 03/18/2009, -1/+13As a Minnesotan, I can attest this has gone on waay too long. We are sick of it and want it to end. Coleman stated that, had he been behind by so few, he would have forfeited and saved the taxpayers money. Now he just keeps sucking it all up. In the meantime, he is ruining his own reputation, he should have stopped arguing long ago to save face at least a little bit.
- novenator, on 03/18/2009, -1/+11Franken did not sue for anything. It is Minnesota state law that a recount is mandatory with any election this close.
- kurttrail, on 03/18/2009, -3/+13It was Bush that vetoed spending bills that supported the troops.
He just didn't like the conditions that Congress tried to apply to him, not our troops.
Or do you mean when Bush sent our troops to Iraq without the sufficient body armor? - wjappe, on 03/17/2009, -2/+11I meant the other way around, the "outsider" Franken, wasn't supposted to win.
- inactive, on 03/18/2009, -0/+8The entire point of the recount and litigation is that we don't know who won by popular vote. Both sides at some point are/were claiming that all the votes hadn't been counted yet. Once the proper judges and authorities believe that all legitimate votes have been counted, then we'll know who won by popular vote.
- wjappe, on 03/17/2009, -9/+17One of those contests that the outsider wasn't supposed to win. I had thought this was a done deal and Al Franken was in.
If this is the kind of resistance the establishment puts up when someone else is picked by the popular vote it tells you what the popular vote really means to the party in power.
Outsiders have to go way over the requirements to get the job. Look at what happened to the Texas law about the time limit being put on the ballot and what happened when the democrats and republicans filed late. - debauch, on 03/18/2009, -1/+9lol @ atomheartmother. that's why military folks overwhelmingly voted for obama over mcsame. you can try and rewrite history all you want but everyone with more than two brain cells knows conservatism for the complete and utter failure it is. the real beauty is, given the conservative movement's complete inability to recognize their own failures they'll just keep on repeating them into perpetuity.
- JigoroKano, on 03/18/2009, -1/+9Franken took his run very seriously. He went all across the state campaigning, town hall meetings (even tiny ones), ...
- Jericho6, on 03/18/2009, -1/+8Other than the fact what you said is 100% false, it's not like Franken personally caused any actions by local voting districts.
Honestly, do you believe that someone would get more votes than registered voters and no one would say anything? At least get your facts straight. - pookydirt, on 03/18/2009, -6/+13Only in America. Political circus extraordinaire.
- TheManikin, on 03/18/2009, -1/+8This article is woefully short on actual facts regarding the challenges going on in the race right now.
- novenator, on 03/18/2009, -0/+7The funniest part is that Coleman originally said a recount would be too expensive, despite it being mandated by state law. Now he wants a whole new election, which would be expensive plus the state constitution would have to be amended in order for it to happen. Perhaps in the future, the state could do this however.
- pathouston22, on 03/18/2009, -3/+9Meanwhile the Democrats save the world!
- 1sammy, on 03/18/2009, -1/+7jvav121: Wow! Get down to the courthouse! They'll be shocked by your revelations. They probably just didn't have the time to look at all these facts. This changes everything. What are you waiting for?
It's not because you know you're nuts, is it? - inactive, on 03/17/2009, -28/+34Undermining democracy is what Republicans do best. That and start wars for no reason.
- kurttrail, on 03/18/2009, -3/+9"Oh, you mean the "conditions" that included the timetable for withdrawal, that would provide our enemies with a "hunker down until" date?"
Yeah, those conditions that Bush finally accepted when the Iraqis forced him to!
"Riiight... because Bush was so anti-military."
Sending the troops to Iraq was a gigantic mistake. It sure made Osama happy & safe!
Bush wasn't anti-military. He just didn't really give a ***** about them. The debacle at Walter Reed sure wasn't pro-military, and neither was sending insufficiently armored Humvees to Iraq.
I don't read Kos, and our country was created by Liberals.
Liberalism - A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.
If you aren't a Liberal, then what are you?
A monarchist, a fascist, a theocrat, a oligarchist, a commie, a socialist, or an anarchist? - Jericho6, on 03/18/2009, -0/+5I don't know if I'd call it voter fraud. But there's always some questionable votes and there's always going to be a margin of error in any kind of voter tabulation. Exposing the errors in counting isn't exactly what people want to hear, however.
I'm not sure there's any actual fraud going on. It's not like dead people were voting. - kurttrail, on 03/18/2009, -2/+7LOL!
Yeah, the party that gave us the suspension of Habeas Corpus, torture, and unwarranted searches are the real Liberals!
Yep, the party that wants to amend the Constitution to discriminate against gay people wanting to marry are the real Liberals!
Right, the party that wants to enforce the religious ceremony of public prayer on every school kid are the real Liberals!
Sorry, but the Republicans are just as much "social liberals" as the Dems!
I'm a Liberal, not a Democrat, or a democrat. - novenator, on 03/18/2009, -0/+4JoeQuixote, what 'obvious voter fraud' are you talking about exactly?
The one in precint 1 in Mt. Iron, a DFL stronghold where Franken mysteriously only received 24 votes until they realized they forgot to put a 1 before it, making it 124 votes. This was jumped all over by the republicans as 'evidence' of fraud, but was proven to be a simple clerical error.
how about the myth about the trunk load full of ballots that were brought in by a DFL worker? Again, proven to be false.
There are accusations, but none of them are founded in reality. The recount process was done ON CAMERA with full disclosure and complete transparency to avoid the type of wild accusations you are now putting forth. - LordBalderdash, on 03/18/2009, -5/+9it's been four and a half months since the election. i could have counted 2.9 million ballots by myself, in my spare time.
what the *****? - novenator, on 03/18/2009, -0/+4Just what I expect from a neo#diggcon, always trying to twist things around.
I never said that Franken was behind by only 200 votes on the morning of Wed, Nov. 5th. After the election, when all the proper corrections were made, Franken was down to 200 votes behind. Either way, the recount would have been mandated by state law.
As for your not so subtle accusation that there was something that smelled like Lutefisk going on, that's more nonsense. You fail to mention things like Precinct 1 in Mt. Iron, a DFL stronghold where Franken somehow only got 24 votes, until they realized it was a clerical error and should have been reported as 124. The republicans were all over this one, crying foul, and in the end it was a simple mistake, not a dark liberal plot to do anything. Just like the BS about the trunkload of ballots.
Why do you want Minnesota to have only 1 senator? Isn't that just slightly unconstitutional? Why do you hate the constitution? Why jnav, why? - novenator, on 03/18/2009, -0/+4LOL! Just keep telling yourself that.
- novenator, on 03/18/2009, -0/+4I understand he has a right to do what he's doing, but it is extremely hypocritical in lieu of his original statements. Plus, most legal experts dismiss his arguments as frivolous and with very little chance of success.
- Maddoktor2, on 03/18/2009, -2/+6This is beyond stupid.
Minnesota should have a provision for runoff elections.
That would have solved everything neatly. - 1sammy, on 03/18/2009, -2/+5Like I told someone earlier, you need to get down to the courthouse and share this valuable knowledge! An important election is at stake. I'm sure that when you explain these obvious errors to the judges they'll immediately declare Coleman the winner and you'll be carried out of the courthouse on their shoulders!
- Shadic, on 03/20/2009, -0/+3How dare they allow somebody who won the popular vote to hold their office!
***** you. - Maddoktor2, on 03/18/2009, -0/+3Indeed, and it makes one wonder if by the time this court case finally winds down, the state constitution could have been amended and the runoff election held already.
The thing is, by keeping this Senate vote in limbo as long as possible, the GOP is alienating Minnesota's constituents by virtue of denying them their mandated voice in Congress, virtually assuring a landslide in favor of Franken if a runoff election is ever held.
This is typical GOP shortsightedness, and will only backfire on them. - novenator, on 03/18/2009, -1/+4the double vote count accusation is another myth.
- pdrap, on 03/18/2009, -1/+4But what fraud has been exposed in this case? I see that there have been accusations of fraud, but a close examination of what actually happened has shown accusations to be baseless.
Where is the fraud in this election? - harronoob, on 03/18/2009, -1/+4The worst part about the Wellstone thing is that the seat DID belong to the democrats. There was absolutely no chance that Wellstone would lose to Coleman. MN is a strange political state, but we are an open and accepting people. Coleman lost the governor race to Jesse Ventura and lucked out on the senate seat with Wellstone's death (very unfortunately). Still, he was an honest and clean-cut guy and we gave him a shot. In the end he did not vote in a way that represented his constituents.
- TheManikin, on 03/18/2009, -3/+5Republicans never would have been engaged in star wars if the Death Star hadn't been built. Put the blame where it is deserved, and that is with Darth Vader.
- busket, on 03/18/2009, -0/+2That's pretty typical neocon fluff, jnav121: no solid proof of anything improper, just a set of ominously framed statements of "fact".
It's too bad nobody with any authority (including MN state-level republican officials) are buying the ***** you're trying to sell. - inactive, on 03/18/2009, -0/+2God Bless it. Seriously - at least we get to talk about it on websites and have a semi-reasonable way to work it out. I live in Minnesota - I'm glad my vote is going to make a difference one way or another...
- inactive, on 03/17/2009, -7/+8Coleman will be landing a lucrative job making license plates in federal prison.
- busket, on 03/18/2009, -0/+1Coleman already has a lucrative consulting job-- oddly enough, they seem to pay him to "consult" as a spectator in his own trial.
I wouldn't mind if he was given the opportunity to "consult" in prison. - minnecrapolis, on 03/19/2009, -1/+2Wow. Aren't you just versed in the liberal agenda.
It is NOT a myth. Nor has it been proven as fact. But it is definitely still a lingering question.
In any event, do you think it's fair that there are votes NOT being counted because they weren't "perfect"? Many absentee votes aren't being counted. Even more votes aren't being counted because people moved. As an example, if someone in assisted/senior living moved to another floor their vote was thrown out thanks for Franken's push.
As for Coleman, he's trying every sleazy move possible to take the seat.
This is no longer about who won the popular vote or who the people want but rather, about who has the better legal team.
I still say let the machines recount ALL the votes. Take out the human element and accept the results. The problem here is that there is no "standard" for election judges or the courts to follow on what is a valid vote. - GrodyChamp, on 03/18/2009, -2/+3@ debauch- I don't know where you got that from, but military personnel voted overwhelmingly for McCain. I can tell you're a true intellectual who cares about facts by the way to called him McSame. Brilliant.
- Claverhouse, on 03/18/2009, -1/+2If a state still runs efficiently without a senator, possibly senators are unneeded luxuries.
After all, they have their own governments. - noranrad, on 03/20/2009, -1/+2Don't believe the Wall Street Journal ,THE NEXT NEWSPAPER TO FAIL,THIS PILE OF PROPAGANDA RAG FOR A NEWS OUTLET IS GARBAGE.Boycott these types of people!
- inactive, on 03/18/2009, -1/+2Its in the courts because Minnesota law allows for an election contest. Coleman is claiming that the recount was not done in a completely transparent manner (no clear rules for choosing ballots to challenge, for example).
Whether he is right or wrong in his challenge, he has the right to challenge. Everyone talks about what he *should* do, but if you have a problem with what he is doing, then the law should be changed. - jnav121, on 03/18/2009, -5/+5well gore didn't even win his home state, so that might seriously be contested the thought he could win any office
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