What is Digg?161 Comments
- waspbr, on 04/29/2009, -3/+87There is not argument there, torture is wrong an immoral regardless of who the prisoner is.
- Jordan117, on 04/29/2009, -2/+81A stellar interview. Jon puts most other professional journalists to shame.
The problem is that the pace of 24-hour news is so fast that there's simply never enough time for a sustained discussion of the issues. Commentators talk over eachother in 15-second turns for two or three minutes and then, whoops! Gotta move on. It's unhealthy discourse. - waspbr, on 04/29/2009, -3/+51I don't think he was being douchey, I reckon he was really trying hard not to lose his cool.
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -11/+53John Stewart seriously owns this one.
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -0/+37Oh, okay, having a doctor present to make sure no one dies makes waterboarding not torture. Makes perfect sense to me.
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -0/+35Yeah, I'm getting sick of the "but they're terrorists" argument. Are you somehow saying that American criminals are somehow not as heinous? We've got child rapists, serial killers, the whole spectrum, but somehow being a terrorist makes you special.
- PeanutCheeseBar, on 04/29/2009, -4/+35Cliff: Hello, my name is Cliff May; you may know of my brother, William...
William: HI, BILLY MAYS HERE! - jmd2121, on 04/29/2009, -0/+29This is the most honest discussion of these issues I've seen yet.
- SpinningHead, on 04/29/2009, -0/+28Why did he let you out?
- Gndoab, on 04/29/2009, -0/+26To me, it seemed that the guy has been in many debates before, and is always fighting an uphill battle in his debates. His defensiveness and leaps of logic (if you don't want to deprive people of sleep for a night, then you may as well let them go to murder and pillage. paraphrasing of course) made it hard to take him seriously. JS even comments on it to begin with, saying something like "you've already done this interview in your head, haven't you?" Good topic, just wish that he had gone on without getting to wrapped up in whatever happened in interviews before.
- bshock, on 04/29/2009, -0/+25Mr. May is inaccurate in his assumptions that (a) torture works and (b) there are no superior alternatives. Without these assumptions, he has no argument.
Do you really need links to the experts (as opposed to politicians and pundits) who have presented evidence to this effect over the last few months? Google "torture doesn't work." - Raphae1, on 04/29/2009, -0/+24Indeed. And those who tortured should go to jail of course. Honestly, how can the US put a child in jail for pot smoking and let torturers keep doing interrogations?
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -0/+23What illegal things have needed to be done? I don't recall any point at which anyone's demonstrated that torture was a necessity.
- bjenidles, on 04/29/2009, -1/+23Canadian mirrors:
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-wi ...
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-wi ...
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily-show-wi ... - DooM, on 04/29/2009, -0/+21And the orders stated that the doctor had to have a trach kit with him so that if the prisoner's larynx went into spasms they could do an emergency tracheotomy on him. Anything that might require you to do an emergency tracheotomy on someone is torture. Period.
- tofagerl, on 04/29/2009, -4/+24While I don't agree with him, I certainly saw his point many times. A skilled debater, and he did very well against Jon. Not many have done as well while debating for such an unpopular topic.
- pintomp3, on 04/29/2009, -4/+23That's because the guy is full of *****. He is trying to equate torture with discomfort and not using torture with choosing to kill Americans. The torture-mongers love to come up with scenarios that have never taken place outside of movies or tv shows create a false choice.
- jeffstevens199, on 04/29/2009, -3/+22Jon Stewart is smart....
- waspbr, on 04/29/2009, -0/+19the BBC has this discussion program called Hardtalk, it is often very controversial and insightful, you should check it out some time.
- phandy, on 04/29/2009, -5/+23seriously? Stewart wasn't allowed to talk half the time. In fact, there's a moment where May asked a question then Stewart literally said 3 words before he was interrupted with another.
- anstice85, on 04/29/2009, -0/+18"The Foundation for Defense of Democracies" ? Sounds legit, I trust them wholeheartedly
- phrenzy, on 04/29/2009, -0/+17Contrast this discussion with the quality of "debate" you get from Beck, O'Reily and Hannity.
- ManUnitdFan, on 04/29/2009, -3/+18While Jon certainly talked over Mr. May, as others have suggested, it went both ways. It was a heated discussion, and they both tried to get their points in over the other's. That's a great interview though, and I have to wonder why mainstream media is incapable of putting these kids of debates on TV? I think it's fascinating and incredibly informative.
- shadeOfGrey, on 04/29/2009, -3/+18and vice versa.
- nates, on 04/29/2009, -0/+15How can it be that Jon Stewart, former stand-up comedian, former MTV host, former Death-To-Smoochy actor, can do a *far* better job at interviewing than, say, 95% of the rest of the media?? He prepares for interviews better, asks better questions, asks FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS (which most in the media never seem to do).
Why can't CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC or any of the other multi-billion-dollar operations do even the most basic job of preparing for and executing an interview? - geodebug, on 04/29/2009, -1/+16Maybe you are doing the internet wrong? For instance, this isn't the Comedy Central complaint department.
- pintomp3, on 04/29/2009, -0/+14It's board of directors include wonderful neo-cons such as William Kristol, Joe Lieberman, James Woolsey, and Newt Gingrich
- ThatsNotPoetry, on 04/29/2009, -1/+14Aw I'm sorry, is this issue not important enough for you? Can't handle the real world around you? Is it all pictures of kittens and Linux updates that get your diggs? Grow up, this is legitimate stuff.
- flmchkn, on 04/29/2009, -0/+12I think they both went a bit hot headed but at least it didn't get retarded like normal news networks.
- jsep, on 04/29/2009, -0/+12Article 2 of the Geneva Convention: "Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof."
- phlyphl69, on 04/29/2009, -0/+12No... If that were true there would be no "War Crimes" now would there?
- rocketz, on 04/29/2009, -0/+11really like twilight zone..... The bearded guy does not get it. America is supposed to lead the free world by example and when times get tough we HAVE TO HOLD the line.... because we have to inspire people not make them fear us.
After the the fall of the NAZIs german soldiers were rounded up in camps. American GIs would toss them cigarettes and then proceed to shoot their fingers off when they picked the smokes up. Those soldiers were prosecuted and sent to jail. Is an arab's life less important than a german's? last time I looked the Germans killed more americans than Arabs did. - kahoona1, on 04/29/2009, -1/+12The guy kept trying to interrupt him while he was talking.
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -0/+10No, it's perfectly harmless. Well okay, it could very easily kill you, but other than that, it's perfectly harmless.
- inactive, on 04/29/2009, -0/+10I thought it was cool that Jon Stewart let the discussion go well past the normal cut-off point and then they put it on the web, rather than just saying "***** it, we've gone over, interesting discussion or not, screw it, we're finished."
- MacEnvy, on 04/29/2009, -1/+11Quick question - when you make a statement like that, do you think you're bringing people over to your point of view, or driving them away? Do you feel that you've implemented an effective style of debate in this case?
- Headinawheel, on 04/29/2009, -2/+12They were cutting eachother off...so it all breaks even in the end, really.
- 10lbhammer, on 04/29/2009, -0/+9whether or not one likes jon stewart, everybody should recognize that he is a smart interviewer. smarter than almost anybody out there, and certainly smarter than bill o and his ilk...
- Wavemancali, on 04/29/2009, -2/+11I totally disagree with John on this one. You've got to prosecute the people who did it and the people who ordered it. It's torture. We killed people for doing it to our troops. You can't kill other people for the same transgression and just say oops when you do it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." is a famous quote by Thomas Jefferson.
This doesn't have to mean soldiers. This can mean innocent civilians as well. Many proponents of torture argue that is it saves an innocent life it's worth it. I argue that it is not. The society that we protect is not worth living in if we allow these barbaric practices.
We cannot hold ourselves up to be the beacon of culture and justice to emulate like we so often try to do if torture is allowed.
Like Dostoyevsky said "The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons." - waspbr, on 04/29/2009, -0/+9I see your point but I don't think he actually does oppose torture. What cliff tried to do was to use the slippery slope argument to put forward the case the at some degree everyone agrees with torture by promoting that the definition of torture , or the fabled line, is subjective, thus he can state that both agrees and disagrees with torture whenever is convinient.
Cliff tries to go around on technicalities, like that the alleged terrorist prisoners do not have a serial number and thus the Geneva convention would not apply. The main message across the Geneva convention is to treat prisoners in the same way that you would want your prisoners to be treated provided they were in a similar predicament. The slippery slope Cliff proposes fails to comply with that.
Cliff just throws a bunch of arguments (a lot actually) and goes with whatever sticks.
After WWII, there were a bunch of prisoners that needed to be interrogates during the Nuremberg trials and subsequent investigations. The interrogation methods that yielded the greatest results were those that the interrogator gained the trust, confidence and respect of the detainee. During interrogation sessions the long ideological discussions took place as well as chess games and what not. - zapass, on 04/29/2009, -0/+8screw this: prosecute the mofos!
we need an american nuremberg with:
bush, cheney, rumsfeld, gonzales and yu
then we can move on - inactive, on 04/29/2009, -1/+9We do it with so little remorse because we've been browbeaten for the past decade by neocon ***** insisting that torture is A-OK.
- Raphae1, on 04/29/2009, -2/+9I was disappointed, because he didn't demand an investigation and prosecution. You want to know, whether water-boarding is torture? Let's find out in court. And those who tortured should go to jail of course. Honestly, how can the US put a child in jail for pot smoking and let torturers keep doing interrogations?
- sscilli, on 04/29/2009, -0/+7We need more interviews like this, and it shouldn't have to come from comedy central. While Jon Stewart does shout over guests at times, it's no where near as bad as on any of the news networks. At least when Jon shouts it's relevant and respectful, not an insult or angry gibberish. The shouting was done by both men in this one, but that's only natural for a heated debate. I really hope that major news networks start to emulate this type of discussion.
- subscriber, on 04/29/2009, -0/+6Yeah, I thought that too when he said it. I wish Jon had called him on it.
Corrected: "Having a doctor present to make sure no one dies makes it not murder." - Jaydo, on 04/29/2009, -0/+6It's still really annoying to hear people trying to justify logistics with sleeze...
A law's a law.
You wouldn't try to justify raping their woman over technicalities, I don't see why torture is any different. - decoy26517, on 04/29/2009, -1/+7I guess we should apologize to Germany for killing those "War criminals" after world war 2.
- flmchkn, on 04/29/2009, -2/+8I started to think Cliff May had some great points but in the end Jon Stewart had it. I wasn't sure on this topic. There could have been other options other then dropping 2 atomic bombs on Japan. If we really want to be seen as a good nation then we have to know better.
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