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66 Comments
- Maeve, on 10/12/2007, -13/+55The RNC is nothing but a noise-machine, distracting Americans from the real issues of these elections.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+42democrats work equally with republicans to distract americans from the real issues.. in fact the only equality we get is that we have no say in the matter..
- jackelsmack, on 10/12/2007, -6/+34Wallace revealed his motives early on in the interview. After he asked Clinton to respond to allegations that he didn't do enough to kill UBL, he stops Clinton from answering and interrupts him in order to produce his list of dubious accusations. IF he had been interviewing someone Fox-friendly he would've just said "Please address accusations that you didn't do enough to kill UBL" at most.
- realpaladin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32Did I miss something? Is Clinton running for President? Why the hell should anyone care what happened when he was president? Oh wait, maybe the Republicans want voters to look anybody else's record other than own - ballooning debt, stagnant economy, no end in sight to *two* Middle Eastern conflicts, lowest International opinion of US, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
- Alcorsu, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29The difference is that Clinton is being honest and upfront about it, and encouraging others to be so too, while the Bush Administration is intentionally misrepresenting the 9/11 report, making bogus TV movies asserting things that never happened actually happened, doing sham interviews with false pretenses and snarky comments added afterwards, and then releasing bogus "fact sheets" to shore up their travesties. Oh yeah, and they also let the bad guys get away and attacked the wrong country to boot.
I wasn't a fan of Clinton when he was president but I sure am now! - BenTrem, on 10/12/2007, -25/+42Nothing but a noise machine? Look at the funding their think-tanks get; look at the money they're spending on propaganda (Fundamentalist assembly centers built for $16M while we hold bake-sales to pay for internet hosting.); look at the quality of their jinjoistic slogans. Nothing but a noise machine? You're deluding yourself; that dissmissive attitude has its consequences.
- Alcorsu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Real Stupid, that is.
- malfourmed, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Digg BenTrem back up. S/he's absolutely right.
The conservative machine is disciplined, highly influential in shaping paradigms of discussion, and backed to the hilt. To dismiss it as a mere "noise-making machine", while not totally without truth, isn't doing anybody any favours, especially those on the progressive side of politics. - mww2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Yep, and the party that started pointing fingers probably should have thought about how it could backfire. This is not a continuing obsession, and you are not wise and aloof for saying it is. Groups of conservatives started actively trying to pin the blame on Clinton, and for that slander absolutely deserved to have Bush's 2001 record revisited. And frankly, I welcome any discussion that reminds us how chronically un-serious this administration is about governing.
- mww2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15THE RNC LIED?!
What an unexected turn of events. - youareretarded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Looking at these so called facts; it appears that they take little care in the actual time line of events. They also like to spin what clinton said.
One example:
"MYTH: President Clinton Said Osama Bin Laden And Al Qaeda Had Nothing "To Do With Black Hawk Down":
Former President Bill Clinton: "There is not a living soul in the world who thought Osama bin Laden had anything to do with Black Hawk down ..." (Fox News' "Fox News Sunday," 9/24/06)
FACT: Experts Agree, Black Hawk Down Was Osama Bin Laden And Al Qaeda's "First Victory" Against The U.S.: "
The full quote: "OK, now let’s look at all the criticisms: Black Hawk down, Somalia. There is not a living soul in the world who thought that Osama bin Laden had anything to do with Black Hawk down or was paying any attention to it or even knew Al Qaida was a growing concern in October of ‘93."
He doesn't say bin laden or al qaeda had nothing to do with blackhawk down but rather there wasn't any known ties at the time. Of course later they would learn of bin ladens association with the attacks, just like they later learned of al qaedas role in the wtc bombings.
Hindsight is 20/20
There is no denying that clinton made mistakes, just like there is no denying bush has made mistakes. The difference and it's pretty obvious in this interview is that clinton has no problem admitting them where as bush and this administration has yet to acknowledge any mistakes.
If you cannot admit that mistakes have been made how in the world can you learn from those mistakes and move on and move on with a better plan? - Joe091, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Wow, did you just try and drop Rush Limbaugh in a serious manner? The dude is pretty much the US Propaganda Minister. How can people take this stuff seriously!? Please people, don't get told what to think!!
- brufleth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Nobody cared because Rummie sat there like a soulless robot and just repeated the administrations BS line about "we're doing the very best we can," "great progress is being made," and "we acted on the best possible information at the time."
Tens of thousands of people are dying! Hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent!
People should be throwing fits! - pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12rnc fact sheet? is that kind of like waterproof h2o? they are just mad clinton called them out on their own network.
- Alcorsu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12You know the RNC is scared when they have to release bogus "fact sheets" just because one of their fox news anchors gets shamed by an ex-president.
- mww2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Since it's the best thing we've got, for the moment.
- bastardoperator, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Rush Limbaugh is a junkie... get a life.
- iconnor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5are you saying we should not play the "blame game"? I thought we stopped playing that during Katrina when Brown left.
I think it is relevant to review history, otherwise you are doomed to repeat it. - jmoo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7You know I think it speaks volumes to the psyche of both Republicans and Democrats with the continuing obsession about who could have prevented 9/11. If only Clinton tried harder to get Bin Laden, or if Bush had paid more attention to some memo. If only the CIA and FBI had shared their info better.
If only...
Its a zero sum game, nothing is gained by it. No mater who did or didn't do what history remains the same - 9/11 happened. On the claim that by learning what went wrong we can fix it in the future doesn't hold up. Nobody is learning anything, just pointing fingers. - loljews, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You know the 911 report is public domain. You can read it online.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm
For those who prefer pictures you can read the graphic novelization for free at slate.com
http://www.slate.com/features/911report/ - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Joe091
"If you can only afford one newspaper, buy the opposition's." - Thomas Jefferson
The simple fact of the matter is, many Americans DO take Rush seriously and turn to him for information political issues. I've heard the phrase 'According to Rush" in a number of political conversations.
Part of his routine is to slander those who dismiss him. Anyone who calls him out is labeled with all the straw man labels Rush loves to use. By dismissing him offhandedly, you're essentially declaring yourself the looser in any debate with someone who takes him seriously. Noting you say afterwards is likely to be taken seriously, as you'll already be labeled a "Long haired maggot infested weirdo" in the mind of the person you're debating. - mww2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Mundanie: Clinton probably didn't try to have his party crap on Bush 1 when he was in office.
- axxiom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Why oh why is anyone defending the records of US Presidents prior to 9/11?
Oh wait, on the Internets, hindsight is the only thing that matters.
Presidents muck up. It's going to happen when the have to make prompt decisions about life and death.
Think Progress takes the bait. Don't they want to talk about issues that will help Democrats win elections? Defending Clinton or challenging spin on Clinton isn't going to help Democrats get elected.
RNC distracts. Think Progress takes the bait hook, line and sinker. - evensong, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Agreed, BenTrem is alluding to something far scarier than a simple "noise machine". Think along the lines of Illuminati.
- smoothmedia, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13This is like two 10yr olds trying to explain who started a fight. Theres always blame to go around. Clinton failed to forsee the severity of the threat terrorism posed the USA, so did Bush. Both presidents will cite meaningless beurocratic garbage about all the great efforts they made to try to kill Bin Laden, but what matters is that intelligence failed and both presidents bear responsibility for that. There is apparently a new campaign from the right to blame 9/11 entirely on the Clinton administration, and to paint Bush as the saviour who fixed Clinton's blunders. Re-writing history, and lieing outwright won't help the GOP in the long run. Clinton, at least, admits he failed....I'm still waiting for Bush to make that admission.
- cuddleparty, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9how is that "real?"
- P5ycHo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Jesus, IF you really want to blame someone, go get Bin Laden !!
- LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2To sit here and debate "what if's" is ridiculous. To say that if Clinton had gotten Osama Bin Laden that 9/11 wouldn't have happened would be shortsighted and naive. These people would have had someone ready to stand up and take his place anyway. That's how things go in the real world. So to sit here and say it's all Clinton's fault that is complete BS. The truth of the matter it wasn't either of their faults. Niether could predict the future. I'm sure Clinton did everything he could, and well, Bush, he's uhh, trying as best as a retarded monkey could try.
In conclusion, when President's can reliably predict the future then we can hold them accountable for these kinds of things. - CoachZed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Yet another reason why we need tight libel and slander standards for any political opinion that purports to be based in fact.
- jmoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2iconnor - Do you honestly think Clinton, Wallace, Rush, or any one else in the political gutter is interested in reviewing history and actually learning from it? As I said, nobody is really learning anything, very few are having rational discussions about how to better our intelligence and our defense. And your right, we likely are doomed to repeat it.
mww2 - Your absolutely right, conservatives did start this muck raking, and nothing is severed by the Democrats returning it in kind. - diggeredoo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5clinton is not our president..
that was last century..
he was on the show to talk about raising money...
he didnt have an earpiece in and he still did better than bush
does when asked about current issues...
what did you expect from fox, the only 'unbiased' news source...
so i should vote republican because clinton failed to take out the boogey man...
nice try... - KMChina, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Would it not be better to link to the actual ROP fact sheet without going through a "liberal" blogg and allow diggers to openly debate all the points raised? That is something Id like to see....
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2>Good thing Bill Clinton and George Bush are running for
>President again.... LOL.
>
>Time to move on folks. The enemy ain´t looking at the past,
>they are planning for the future terrorist attacks on our
>western culture.
i think the problem is that bush and the neocons are a more dangerous enemy of the U.S. than any other terrorist threat. - brianbennett, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Since when is the 9/11 Commission Report gospel?
- xGORDOx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I love it...
Jon (Stewart) Leibowtiz defends Clinton on the Daily Show and it is on the front page.
A fact sheet comes out refuting the claims of Clinton and it is deemed inaccurate by Diggers.
This place is MySpace for geeks who think they understand the world because they read about it through a prism on the internet. - imhigh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I suppose next theres gonna be another story submitted on how Bush is the greatest president ever. What a joke.
- xavierlaurence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What saddens me is the lack of perspective from both ends of the spectrum here. Right now is the time when Americans should be listening to us outsiders more than ever - it's all about perspective, really. For right now, all of you, Right or Left are too close to this to be able to look at this objectively; Perhaps its time to remember a basic truth about how your country got where it is now: Diplomacy.
Republican or Democrat the truth is that you both love your country and wish to see the best for it. In that perspective there is TONS of common ground for you both to meet on. Right now what I'm seeing, on both sides, is people taking Personal stances on a matter that has grown too large for it to even matter any more. It doesn't matter how you got here, you're here, now - together. You can stand around pointing fingers or you can look at where you are, objectively, and decide if this is REALLY what you want for your country.
You all are - ostensibly - a Democracy, why not take the time to find the common ground you need to face a very real enemy? There ARE reasonable solutions to your problems, but you will not find them when you're spending your time attacking each other.
Here are some facts from an outsider's perspective:
- Like it or not, Bush has toppled two Governments since coming into power.
- Your economy has slowed to the point where the Canadian Dollar is now almost on Par with the American - 89.60 cents as of this writing where as in 2002 it sat at under 65 cents! Chart HERE: (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=CAD&to=USD&amt=1&t=5y)
- Many countries, ones that you once considered Friends and Allies, want to help you with your problems but - like a hurt and angry brother - you push us away. Just because we will not help you in the way that you want us too (through troops and warships) doesn't mean that we cannot help you in other ways. Your country is hurting, your people are divided and you attack one another instead of realizing you are being attacked on two fronts: On your own soil and from another.
For those of you who believe in the Christian God then you must also believe in Tolerance and Understanding - For those are the Fundamental teachings of Christ. For those of you who believe in Science then you must also believe in Fact. And the Fact is that you are all hurting. Focus on these things, find your CENTER once again and together you can face a threat that is growing all around you now.
My sincere best wishes for you all from Canada. - Amigaice, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/06/09/092506_3_gop.asx
http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/06/09/092506_4_richard_clarke.asx
http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/clips/06/09/092506_5_scheuer.asx - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"deemed inaccurate"
you mispelled "proven inaccurate"
If that statement can be applied to even one quote in the talking points (which it can)
then we must bring the credibility of the document as a whole into question.
To do any less is being dishonest with yourself, much less anyone else. - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ahhh, THIS should be good for a nice, warming flame war!
These old bones get cold as Fall approaches. - Alcorsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@halleyscomet
I actually agree with you, but like chess you don't want to play against easy opponents like Rush, better to play against stronger opponents to improve your game (or find the errors in your argument and correct them).
The problem with recent political discourse has been that the Republicans are more and more desperate and so they're resorting to outright lies, falsehoods, and ridiculous spin rather than reasoned debate, and the American public is becoming desensitized to it. There aren't any good alternatives to Rush and O'Reilly, and the ones with half a brain like Scarborough, Bill Buckley and even (gulp) Kristol are breaking ranks with Bush. - MoofTheStoof, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Wallace's hit-job on Clinton was timed to distract attention from the report that just came out detailing how the Iraq war is creating more anti-US terrorists and threats rather than reducing them.
- buxmeister, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6All people in politics BS and talk to the masses.
Still...
Clinton was there for his Clinton Climate Initiative, not about present day circumstances that he can't do anything about. The media is always looking for a bad guy. Clinton, Bush, Stern, or Hilton...
The media doesn't care about the issues, just ratings.. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3In all seriousness, there's not much that the 9/11 commission report gets right, so there's a good chance anything related to Clinton may well not be accurate.
- Alcorsu, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Read the article. The point is that the RNC's "Fact Sheet" is itself false. This isn't a "liberal" or conservative thing; it's truth and lies.
- flink405, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Good thing Bill Clinton and George Bush are running for President again....
LOL.
Time to move on folks. The enemy ain´t looking at the past, they are planning for the future terrorist attacks on our western culture. - lobotomy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is real too http://limbaugh.com/?q=Hydrocodone
- humanerror, on 04/03/2008, -1/+1existence.
- jjesusfreak01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What is starting to annoy me is the fact that everyone is taking everything said by the 9/11 commission to be absolute fact. If you put a bunch of idiotic republicans in a room with a bunch of idiotic democrats, you arent going to come out with something that should be used as a basis of fact.
Regardless of whether there were WMD in Iraq, do you really think we are going to find any of them when before the war when the inspectors came to a facility, Saddam would yell, "Im not ready yet, come back later". What did they do? They came back later, since they had no military backing. So really, all this stuff about fact and fiction can only be based on what we did see, not what we didnt... - AHIGHERGOD, on 10/12/2007, -11/+10"democrats work equally with republicans to distract americans from the real issues.. in fact the only equality we get is that we have no say in the matter.."
plarp
Bravo! -
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