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61 Comments
- inactive, on 04/19/2009, -6/+37If Obama doesn't move ahead with investigations and prosecutions on the torture that occurred, then the stench of the Bush administration will carry over to his.
And before there can be any GOP renewal, Republicans need to admit that Bush promoted TORTURE (and then lied about it), and then they should work toward atonement as a political party by preventing TORTURE from ever happening again at the hands of Americans. They need to do these things before they get on their high horse as moral Christians.
The Bush-approved TORTURE even included the use of INSECTS!
The GOP-approved TORTURE was done even though it has been shown that TORTURE doesn’t get information that is wanted. It only gets the victims to tell you what they think you want to hear... oh... and it gets them to scream. Great job, BUSH. Now America has no “moral high ground” over Iran, North Korea or anyone else.
The GOP, partly through its many failures, scandals, wars, sexual misconduct disclosures, the Bush economic disaster, etc. -- and partly by promoting TORTURE -- has done its best to try to give real Christians a bad name. - Hillsfar, on 04/19/2009, -2/+29At Nuremberg Trials, excuses of "I was only following orders" was not enough to prevent justice to be meted out to Nazis torturers and killers.
At trials of Japanese torturers of American POWs, among the crimes were water boarding, for which Japanese officers were sentenced.
Why is justice different here in America? - Echota, on 04/19/2009, -2/+28FTA:
These memos make it clear that Mr. Bybee is unfit for a job that requires legal judgment and a respect for the Constitution. Congress should impeach him. And if the administration will not conduct a thorough investigation of these issues, then Congress has a constitutional duty to hold the executive branch accountable. If that means putting Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzales on the stand, even Dick Cheney, we are sure Americans can handle it.
After eight years without transparency or accountability, Mr. Obama promised the American people both. His decision to release these memos was another sign of his commitment to transparency. We are waiting to see an equal commitment to accountability. - Gareth321, on 04/20/2009, -3/+17The fact that something as heinous as torture is not even being officially investigated hints at HUGE pieces of information that are being withheld from the public. Torture is just one aspect of the Bush era that needs to be investigated and prosecuted if necessary. Where are the probes into a false war? Claims of missing billions from Iraq? Insider deals for military companies? Poll rigging? There are hundreds of egregiously serious suspicions that HAVE to be investigate if the US is to maintain any semblance of morality. The cognitive dissonance it requires to condemn other countries for lack of the rule of law, and morally repugnant acts to its citizens, all the while practising that which they condemn is utterly appalling.
Presidents are not above the law!
Politicians are not above the law!
Corporations are not above the law!
As a non-US citizen, I urge you, for the good of the entire world, to stand up and put an end to the blatant corruption you see right in front of you. They win if you do nothing. - tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -0/+8Obvious troll is obvious.
- Gguillorn, on 04/20/2009, -0/+7"Our soliders and CIA combat squads are sticking their necks out and the best you can do is politicize the war"
I am so ***** tired of this attitude. Anytime over the last eight years (although not really the last two), anyone who had a problem with torture or government spying didn't support the troops and was a commie bastard. Listen you dumb *****, the United States is a part of the Geneva Convention, which means we are officially opposed to torture. We are breaking our own ***** laws. By our own definitions and morals what we are doing is goddam criminal. Just because our torture isn't the worst torture doesn't mean it is okay. - lamiaconfitor, on 04/20/2009, -1/+8Or, we could just actually believe in justice. Not just for our own citizens, but for everyone. To treat anyone otherwise is to admit failure. Should we torture everyone who commits a crime instead?
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -0/+6The GOP should be happy that Obama isn't moving ahead with prosecutions but they're still making up stupid sh*t about him. The GOP had their chance but they killed themselves.
- tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -1/+6Great, so they justified torture and we should just accept it?
- tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -0/+5Ok internet tough guy,
The way you typed your response makes me think you've never served. In that's the case, well, people like you that want to wrap yourself in the American flag and invoke its soldiers while never having been in the military make me sick.
It seems you don't know a goddamn thing about war but you'll tell a veteran to STFU when he speaks out against it. - bobbi21, on 04/20/2009, -0/+5May not be nazi's but still wrong.
- smeatish, on 04/20/2009, -1/+5"Research"? More like legal rubber-stamping
- normlsparky, on 04/20/2009, -0/+4"Obama can but won't do anything on this issue."
There, I fixed that for ya. Quit making excuses for his ass. It was wrong when Bush did it and it's still wrong now. - bobbi21, on 04/20/2009, -0/+4.. so you're one of those ppl who do'nt think waterboarding is torture?... great...
And torturing has never been shown to get reliable information out of ppl.
And just because the prisoners are cruel doesn't mean we should be cruel back. that's what makes us better than the terrorists. - tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -1/+4Actually I am the child my parents raised, I think for myself and question what people claim as truth. So when you talk about a nurse being attacked, naturally I want see if this is a legitimate news story.
I can't find a thing about it on google. Must be that damn liberal search engine hiding the truth again? I do however find a lot of news about the prisoners being beaten, spit on, humiliated and insulted for practicing their religion.
But let's ignore that, after all the plan is to dehumanize them to justify treating them worse than animals. That's why you told this unproven story right?
I won't even touch the ridiculous claim the Bush administration wanted these memos to be leaked. RTFA, it says this was done to cover their ass.
It's sad you didn't find anything wrong with these memos, I guess your assuming none of the practices would ever be used on you and your family. I hope your right, because the rest of us will speak out before that can happen. You should thank us, not insult us. - smeatish, on 04/20/2009, -0/+3Japanese war crime leaders were tried:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#W ...
"Soon after the war, the Allied powers indicted 25 individuals as Class-A war criminals, and 5,700 individuals were indicted as Class-B or Class-C war criminals by Allied criminal trials. Of these, 984 were initially condemned to death, 920 were actually executed, 475 received life sentences, 2,944 received some prison terms, 1,018 were acquitted, and 279 were not sentenced or not brought to trial."
"On 19th January 1946, General MacArthur, the supreme Allied Commander in the Far East, issued a special proclamation ordering the establishment of an International Military Tribunal for the Far East (IMFTE)." - julesbond007, on 04/20/2009, -1/+4@poprocksandsoda
Wow! I'm wondering where you got that Ph,D in political science and law...mind you tell me?
So we should stoop to the level of Al Qaeda and decapitate our enemies...great! I think Bush should give you a lifetime seat as well...Oh I forgot Obama is president! - tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -2/+5Your source is blatant right-wing literature? I was hoping for something a but more objective. Last I checked the right, left and middle all had books that were a little stretched on truthfulness.
Regardless, I don't see anything specifically about your nurse there except a person's review of the book. Not a very reliable source sir, try to again. - tehdriver, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Are you seriously trying to imply there were no innocent Japanese citizens by putting quotes around the term?
- CannedMango, on 04/20/2009, -1/+3At this point it's moot if Obama is going to do anything about it.
It's the American people who need to hold these ***** accountable. Stop waiting for your parents... I mean your president to do it for you. Get out there and demand an inquiry. - Napiertt, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Read this to get some context. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22614
Also the ICRC report. - Barackalypse, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Except that is the whole problem with Government, it always looks out for itself first and always at the expense of the people it is supposed to serve.
- julesbond007, on 04/20/2009, -1/+3@LucasSmith:
man you seem to be sucking on some GOP titties..you need to get off that...I've seen you write about domestic and foreign policies and you never make any sense at all. Since you claim that we have used torture to the Bush extent before...why don't you come up with the proof? Bring us some memos that Clinton had and we'll be happy about that. The Bush memos are right there 160 pages if you read the article.
Obama will not prosecute these CIA's because of legal and loyalty reasons...Current CIA's would be distrustful of him if he did so...and the CIA's can easily argue that they can't get a fair trial because the public had made its decision...Now if Obama wanted to use this for political gains, he would wait until his reelection to release the memos, not now. - inactive, on 04/21/2009, -0/+2 We know they are not above the law...But we have as much influence over what happens in our country as a feather in the wind...The bail outs are proof of that.
In the USA;
Presidents are above the law!
Politicians are above the law!
Corporations are above the law!
Wealthy people are above the law!
No one else is. - treehugger87, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Try flying coach to New Zealand knowing that the people on either side of you, behind you and in front of you hate you, cannot be trusted, and will take the opportunity to cause you harm if you give them any chance.
I'll bet your boy scout troop never slept with scorpions or poisonous spiders.
When does middle school harrasment become torture? I don't know, but I'm guessing it has something to do with the harm done and the amount of power and freedom that you have. I am sorry that you had a bad middle school experience, but please don't use your horrible "character building" experiences as a 12 year old to justify the torture of defenseless adults. - inactive, on 04/20/2009, -8/+10Obama has no intention of doing squat
He said so himself
Do I need to translate this into another language for you to understand? - treehugger87, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1@Lukas, in response to your initial post there is a big distinction between illegally and secretly rending and torturing people and having a bunch of lawyers get together and make it legal. I don't like either, but we all need to stand up against torture.
And the USA did have the moral high ground. We had it for a long time and never more than in the days immediately following 9/11. It is sqaundered and lost, and was done so in 8 very long years. - radu79, on 04/20/2009, -1/+2Obama is worse than Bush.
At least Bush knew that torture is bad, so he tried to hide it from the public. Obama, on the other hand, shows it to everyone, then says: "Oh, we tortured people, but we are not going to prosecute those who did it, ***** you World and ***** you UN". - inactive, on 04/21/2009, -0/+1That is really considered wisdom canned mango?
Don't believe the president who just released all these documents and has power in the justice department, aka Eric Holder, should have to do something about it?
yeah, right.
If Obama was as shocked as you were, he COULD do something. He just chooses not to.
And I totally don't get the whole parent analogy at all. There is a huge difference between parent and president. - kakwakas, on 04/20/2009, -3/+4You're forgetting about the part about how most of the prisoners from Guantanamo are just going to other camps.
And excessive spending is nothing new. - treehugger87, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1Torture is illegal under international law and does not work. What's the question?
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1Couldn't wade through it. Subtract all the blather about the GPU and Chinese Commie torturers that's designed to make you think that the CIA is like them. Subtract the unconfirmed statements made by mass murderers (KSM and Abu Zubaydah) there's not much left to read.
But I'll tell you a secret. If you're wondering why Obama doesn't push to prosecute American officials for these acts... it's because he knows what you don't know...
The American people support doing this, when necessary, to a few terrorists. Period. - Malinse, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1@140Suffolk. Thank You. Your a great American.
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -1/+2OH, but you are forgetting that he flip flops on issues all the time!
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1Keep dreaming treehugger
College might be good for you one day
Might open your eyes - Malinse, on 04/20/2009, -0/+0@shoxwave. Where do you live?
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -2/+2O RLY? Spending trillions and closing the detention camps at Guantánamo Bay are George Bush ideas. Then Joe Biden must be Dick Cheney II.
- Malinse, on 04/20/2009, -0/+0@Echota. you said; "His decision to release these memos was another sign of his commitment to transparency..."
THIS IS NOT TRANSPARENCY!!!
Things President Obama has NOT answered yet:
Birth Certificate, College records, What he was doing in Pakistan in the 70's, What's his relationship with Nadhmi Auchi, Henry Kissenger, William Ayres, ACORN, William Wright, why every appointment he has made is a wall street banking lobbyist and a member of CFR, Tri-lateral, bildeberger, etc,etc,etc... He is the most non-transparent, despotic president we have ever had. So stop lying! - inactive, on 04/20/2009, -1/+1ahahahahahah
You are always good for a laugh jules
thanks - inactive, on 04/23/2009, -0/+0People at Fox "News" obviously want very badly to believe that the U.S. never tortured people... but, obviously we did. Fox's so-called "News" channel is truly reprehensible especially on the TORTURE issue.
Recently, Shepard Smith and his torture-loving pal Bill O'Reilly have spent a great deal of effort trying to excuse, downplay and minimize the fact that Bush and some in his administration promoted the TORTURE of prisoners, even waterboarding one man 183 TIMES, and that the torture even included the use of insects.
Please demand answers from O'Reilly and everyone at the Fox "News" channel about just how torture fits in with the CHRISTIAN FAMILY VALUES they and the Republicans been pandering to for all of these years.
People in the various faith communities need to stand together to denounce not only those appearing on Faux who act as apologists for the TORTURERS, but also to denounce the Bush administration's torture promoters, pro-torture judges and memo-writers, and those who carried out the actual TORTURE procedures.
Please help spread the word that it's time to stand up and denounce the torturers, and call your LOCAL Faux affiliate to tell them what you think of the parent/network company (NewsCorp) allowing people on the network to try to excuse torture and try to protect those who tortured prisoners. One such Fox station is WTTG in Washington, DC: 202-895-3000.
Any or all of this posting can be copied and re-posted/emailed. No copyright is claimed on it. - radu79, on 04/20/2009, -1/+1Malnise, it doesn't matter if torture is ethical, or effective. What matters is that US signed international agreements that make torture illegal. US soldiers were waterboarded in WW2, and some of their torturers paid for that. If you want the torture to be an option for the CIA, write your represenatives to ask them to:
1. Make torture legal, by amending the cosntitution.
2. Have US withdrae from itnernational organizations and conventions that oppose it. - inactive, on 04/20/2009, -2/+1Here's what the Times didn't tell you. The very same CIA memos said this:
"An Aug. 1, 2002, memo describes the practice of "walling" -- recently revealed in a report by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which suggested that detainees wore a "collar" used to "forcefully bang the head and body against the wall" before and during interrogation. In fact, detainees were placed with their backs to a "flexible false wall," designed to avoid inflicting painful injury. Their shoulder blades -- not head -- were the point of contact, and the "collar" was used not to give additional force to a blow, but further to protect the neck."
IT'S NOT TORTURE - Malinse, on 04/20/2009, -1/+0http://insidegitmo.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/guanta ...
http://www.insidegitmo.com/
If you think anything that's "blatant right-wing literature" is all lies than the debate is dead. You can remain closed. - Malinse, on 04/21/2009, -1/+0Cheney is going on Fox to campaign Obama to declassify more CIA docs. The ones' that show the operational successes of the "torture". The ones up til now have only been legal council's memos.
- Malinse, on 04/20/2009, -3/+1How do you know torture doesn't get reliable information? Are you an expert? Or are you just repeating some amnesty international talking points. Have you ever had a loved one saved because some information was extracted from a bad guy? It's a screwed up world these people [the islamo-fascist terrorists] live in. And the guys and gals in uniform don't have the luxury to sit at their keyboards to figure it out. It's the real world. So if you want to be morally superior, you might want to try Europe. They have perfected being ungrateful to the US.
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -3/+1## confinement in a small space: try flying coach to New Zealand.
## confinement with insects: ever go camping with no 6-12?
## thrown up against a wall? ever to to middle school?
Obviously I'm being facetious. But the point remains -- these things are not torture. - inactive, on 04/20/2009, -4/+1No, he's correct. These things are NOT torture.
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