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344 Comments
- implied, on 10/12/2007, -5/+73The movie 'Idiocracy' demonstrates this perfectly.
- satanatnmtedu, on 10/12/2007, -7/+701) Schools are not under funded.
2) Kids don't care because their parents don't care, and there is a stigma to being smart.
3) Kids need to be held to set standards and held back if they do not met them.
4) School unions should be concerned about the kids rather than the member's bottom line. - THX1212, on 10/12/2007, -10/+64I also highly recommend this recent article by Steve Sailer, "Why “No Child Left Behind” Is Nuts:" http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070218_child.htm
John Derbyshire had another (probably more controversial) education article in "New English Review" a while ago: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=4844&sec_id=4844 - THX1212, on 10/12/2007, -6/+52Why does everyone say schools are 'horribly underfunded?'
The US spends more money per capita on education than any other industrialized nation. We are nowhere near the top of industrialized nations educationally. North Dakota is getting far better results than Washington DC, in spite of spending only a third as much on education per capita. (Meanwhile, the fact that you hear about textbook shortages in usually overfunded urban areas should tell you something about the way that local politicians and the educational establishment are prioritizing their funds.)
We were getting much better results back in 1964 in spite of spending far less on education back then, even adjusted for inflation. - cambrown99, on 10/12/2007, -8/+52Ow! My Ballz!
- TheGrunt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43 1. All teams must make the state playoffs, and all will win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable.
2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time and in the same conditions. No exceptions will be made for interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL.
3. When players arrive at any game with remedial skills in football for any reason, their coaches will be penalized for their performance, regardless of how long the players have been on the team. cjk
4. If remedial players do not achieve proficiency by the next statistically recorded game, their coaches and athletic directors will be put on probation. After several games of probation, coaches and athletic directors may be released. Coach and athletic director probation and release will not be conditional on the size of gains in the remedial players football skills; players must reach proficiency. cjk
5. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. Coaches will use all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability or whose parents don't like football.
6. All coaches will be proficient in all aspects of football, or they will be released.
7. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th and 11th games.
8. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.
If no football player gets ahead, then no football player will be left behind.
Source: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/nclb_sports.htm - VAXcat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+39 This is great news! As I get older and slow down a little bit, I'll still be able to outperform those youngsters!
- blapierre, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39@mwsherman
"means justify the ends"
I think you meant "ends justify the means"? - mwsherman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37That second article you mention talks about KIPP. I visited a KIPP school once and it was scary. They support military style discipline--techniques like public humiliation and the punishment of many for the mistakes of a single student are quite popular. One particular punishment was to make a student stand in a special hallway tile with their head against the wall. It's a bit uncomfortable sure, but most of the punishment is having to stand their silently while the rest of the school goes about its day, staring and talking about you the whole time. Reminded me of the stocks a little bit. It was extremely disturbing. I would have taken the occasionally ruler smacking instead of that back when I was in school.
On the other hand, KIPP's results are absolutely amazing. So it's certainly reasonable to say the means justify the ends.
Still, KIPP has a lot of money, and also a TON of scholarship money for their students to use for private high schools and eventually college. There's not even close to enough money in the education system to support KIPP. Even the founders of KIPP state that they do not believe KIPP is a solution to the education problems of America, and want to keep it as a special program seperated from general education. Their goal, as far as I know, is to make KIPP available to more students, and to establish a KIPP in every school district that has 'disadvantaged' students. - doctechnical, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39What percentage of ALL students take the ACT test? Seems to me if you're barely literate and can't multiply two-digit numbers without a calculator you're not going to waste your time taking a test that's used for college admissions.
Unless the test is administered to all students it's usefulness as a general indicator is dubious at best. That's not an agenda, that's common sense. - xerigen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+35I think a lot of it has to do with the way education is run. Back in elementary and middle school, things came real easily to me, I put zero effort into anything I did, and I had no worse than an A- through 9th grade. Well, 10th grade came along, and finally I was challenged a little bit, but since I was so used to putting in zero effort, I still put in zero effort. This resulted in A's and B's, which I received through the remainder of high school (and so far in college). But in high school, as things got harder, I still continued to put in the same amount of effort, resulting in slowly slipping grades.
What I'm trying to say is that when it's obvious that a student is succeeding with no effort, they should be put in a harder course or curriculum. This needs to be done much earlier in a student's "career", doing it halfway through high school will not get the job done.
The problem? The United States is to politically correct to call someone smarter than someone else. - THX1212, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33bigdavediode,
For starters, almost all the tests like ACT and SAT have been "adjusted" over the years and not in the direction of making them more difficult or rigorous. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34I'll tell you what it is - pollution and not enough sleep due to overstimulation and a reliance on homework over teaching.
- dukeeeey, on 10/12/2007, -14/+43The dumbing down of America is deliberate. The guys at the top want to keep Americans thick .. and the sad thing is, it is working.
have a watch of this ..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7398714418354815608 - vaga222, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32Obviously most people have never seen the movie or the two comments above this wouldn't have been buried.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ - cheekdog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30oh my jesus!! i would like for the state legislators to take these ***** tests. how about i'm teaching 2nd graders state test taking skills. i can't remember the last time my 2nd graders used scissors and glue. they're little kids, for crap's sake!!! how about questions that are vaguely worded? how about teachers are never allowed (at least in my state) to ever see the test, not even AFTER so that we can at least find out what vocabulary is being used so the kids don't get confused, because god knows we aren't allowed to clarify anything. anybody who thinks the tests are "dumbed down" should have to ***** take one.
edit: the reason the kids are doing worse is because we're cramming too many things down their throats at once, instead of building a solid foundation one thing at a time. - Kanna, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24So does that mean one day when I walk into a Costco in the states I will get that friendly greeting "Welcome to Costco. I love you"?
- dielawn, on 10/12/2007, -9/+32i work with kids, and sometimes, no matter how many times you go over the subject, no matter how many techniques you go over, they just dont get it. some kids really are *****, others just dont try, most of those who are left and do make effort will eventually lose motivation. our school systems lick ass, we are taught retarded standards, and most kids my age are more worried about the draft coming back than their next report card. get out of the wars, and get america back on track so students can focus on their work, and not if mommy or daddy will make it home from iraq.
- scubajim, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28Schools ARE NOT underfunded. Since the 1960's we are now spending over 300% MORE per child after adjusting for inflation. If we are "underfunded" now then in the 1960's we weren't spending much of anything. We ARE misspending the money.
- mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?
/obligatory. - tendonut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20That is one of my biggest complaints I have about this country. Also, the way financial aid works at the colleges really piss me off too.
I still think there should be some kind of limit to how long you can be on welfare. I know plenty of people who didn't get their GED, then collected welfare for 20 years while popping out kids to get a better income. No motivation to work at all, since their welfare checks are larger than their parents' paychecks were.
As for my off-topic rant about financial aid, my parents bring in about $100,000 a year, but can't afford to send my two brothers and I to college for the full 4-5 years required because of other normal expenses (mortgage, cars, utilities, etc). They pay for our community college tuition, then we are forced to take out student loans to pay for the 4-year state college.
Now on the other hand, my one friend gets his college tuition paid for in full by financial aid because his PARENTS are poor. He is in the same program and college as me at the moment, does half-ass, but because he is still technically "dependent" on them (just like me), he gets to graduate debt free. I, on the other hand, will have $30,000 in debt just because my parent aren't poor, even though they can't realistically afford to send me. The whole system is ***** up. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22"I'm Mexican and one of the top three people of my high school class, you ***** dick."
First, you don't represent the majority. Second, it starts with the parents. Parents must emphasize that education is important and the system must mirror that. They should not completely change curriculum to focus on the test, while at the same time making it easier. The education system should produce students who grasp concepts and can dynamically apply these principles. - arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27No Child Left Behind is a direct contradiction of itself.
Look at the School Vouchers program that was shot down: this proposes that when a school receives a failing grade for performance, certain students would be eligible for a voucher to attend a private school, instead of staying in the failing school. Many people still support this idea thinking that it would be a great help.
Actually, no. What you have is children who are able to leave the failing school and go to a private school, while the other kids who didn't qualify for vouchers stay in the failing school and get a *****-hole education, while little to nothing is done to improve the state of the failing school, and meanwhile, taxpayers money is being spent to send a privileged few to private school.
Sounds EXACTLY like children being left behind to me.
Moreover, the new guidelines for "grading" a school performance is based on yearly standardized tests (FCAT in Florida, for example). So, in order to assure that a particular school receives a passing grade, the teachers teach the students only what they need to know to pass the test. That's it. It's drilled into them from the beginning of the year, teaching for the tests. So the children aren't receiving a sound, comprehensive education, they're receiving instructions on how to pass a test so the school looks good. And the pressure that they put on the children to perform is enormous. It's no wonder kids are cracking and flipping out. Our educational system is doing nothing to educate them, and pressuring them to such a degree, that they just simply can't handle it. So you have kids who either fail grades repeatedly because they can't handle the pressure and the performance that is expected of them, or you have kids who drop out of school, or you have kids who commit suicide because they're afraid that they're failing their parents (and possibly due to increased pressure from the parents as well), or kids who flip out and kill other kids.
Sounds EXACTLY like children being left behind to me.
This system is broken. We need a change. We need a school system that really wants to teach our children, for our children's sake, not for the sake of funding or the school's performance grade. We need a system that teaches our kids at their own pace, without the pressure that the school will be shut down if they don't do well on a sodding test. - returnofmalv, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19The problem with education today is that teachers are no longer allowed to administer any real, untolerable discipline to the alpha-male class clowns. What ends up happening is that the rest of the students, most of whom have the potential to excel, end up following the lead of the idiots for fear of social exclusion. These alpha-male ***** need to be chastised into submission.
You have to remember that children are nothing more than sheep. They need to revere and respect the students which excel and not the reverse. - imacmike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Carl's Jr.
***** you, I'm eating!
Brawndo has what plants crave. - mikeazorin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17It's got electrolytes.
- lejohn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20I believe the decline of test score is partly due to the fact that our parents spoon-fed us more than the previous generations. Admit it, many of us have everything handed to us and we do not feel motivate to do well in school. Plus, we are living in the world's wealthiest nation. Look up the statistics, as more college graduates nowadays are living with their parents in U.S. Now, imagine if you are struggling to find food everyday or working in the rice field under the blazing sun as kids in the third world countries, you will be motivated to study and do well to get out of that crappy situation. I will retract my statement if you have data saying that there is also a decline in test scores in third world countries over the last 40 years...
- humperdeath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16This is why IDIOCRACY is a documentary, not a work of fiction. Wait 500 years, and tell me I'm wrong.
- redxii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I can't understand all the big words in that article.
- Jo9100, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14this text is wayyy too long to read... got a bullet list?
/sarc - klawz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21Why are you so hung up on cursing? I mean, just for a week, don't care about it. See how much more to life there is not worrying about the small *****.
- Haroldx, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24So, what are we going to do? Close the borders? Kick all of them out?
It won't work. It's happened in history before. Today's society wouldn't allow it.
It's not the people you need to kick out, it's the way the parents raise their children. This goes to American children aswell.
My parents really don't give a crap about my grades. I have no idea why. Maybe they don't understand that I carry on the family name and whatnot.
You know what else? _I'm a Mexican-American._ I make perfectly good grades in school. I have 4/7 honors/ap classes and I make As and Bs. In my other 3 classes I always make As. No one motivates me to do this besides myself. A perfect example of good grade kids are the Orientals. Their parents want them to be the best in class, make good grades, and participate because they understand that in the long run it will be good for them. I don't think today's Christian white parents understand this. Most kids in my high school don't give a crap about grades. It's really sad. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16The ACT in comparison to the SAT is not as difficult. That and there is a growing trend to "teach for the test" in which teachers push only material which is on the respective test, leaving the students SOL when it comes to application of the knowledge.
- kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16 how about we talk about reforming the way our kids learn. The way we learn math in America sucks. I'm sorry but we teach it in a way that you just don't get it.
WE don't show the basics we make it so damn complex because we think complex is smarter... Ever wondered whyt he Nigerian kid in the classroom makes straight As on all his math test. Check out his private boarding school in Nigeria.
Anyway this problem needs to be solved. Though we do throw a lot more money at it. Trust me. LEss than half of the schools out there receieve the sufficient funding. Most school who receive too much funding tend to be the suburban schools. You know the ones in the suburbs that have or they are current;y building a huge NFL style football field..
There is a serious problem in how we direct our funding.. There is a serious problem on how we teach to regurgitate information instead of teaching kids to learn how to learn thus they learn.
No one on digg has addressed this issue properly. - blin22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I think the standards are changing. When my mom went to high school, she said that the most advanced math class that was offered was Trigonometry. At my high school, this was a standard course, and anyone who was decent at math took AP Calculus. It seems strange to me that everyone is getting dumber, yet we are adding more advanced courses in schools.
Also, all this talk begs the question of how you measure intelligence. Reading? Math? I know some CS majors at my college who think you're a moron if you can't use a computer. By that standard, our generation is the smartest yet. - Erik1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12This is not just happening in the high-schools of America either.
I am studying Engineering in Canada and I have noticed the decline as well. Searching through previous tests and midterms for some of my courses from, say, 3 to 5 years ago, the difficulty level significantly increases the further you go back. Admittedly, the course curriculum may be slightly different, but it is somewhat worrisome that the standards of teachers and an entire university are continuously declining. - somnambulator, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15The problem is not just the dumbing down, it is that the D,E and F grade kids believe they're smart (because we dare not tell them otherwise). They believe they should get a really well paid job, and some other idiot should be doing all the menial stuff.
It is then left up to the cheap immigrant labour to do the menial stuff, leaving the terminally dumb and 'tarded to take over local government, TV, news and Oh *****... education. And then the world. - THX1212, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12One other article for you all:
"NYC Teachers Weak In English"
"Thomas Wagner, a former New York City public school English teacher, says grammar isn't taught very much in the NYC public school system and the teachers there are increasingly unable to teach grammar and writing."
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004109.html - tendonut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I myself just graduated high school in 2002. I now work at a middle school as a computer technician, and am in the classrooms quite a bit. I was in 7th grade not too long ago, and I can easily tell you, after reading over a few tests, I can't help but think "I did this stuff in 4th grade...." To top it off, the kids are bitching to me after I comment on it saying "You don't know what it is like! Tests are harder now!" as if I was in my 50's, not 22.
- Eallan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Which is precisely why throwing more money at the education system isn't the solution. The problem is with the kids and the parents. No one takes responsibility for anything and wants the government to intervene and "fix it".
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19honestly, thats because a lot of teenagres that I see these days don't care, they'd rather be cursing and making adults hate them, then getting a decent education.
- Raider2044, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I've got a "venti" urge to visit Starbucks.
- bts4686688, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Where the motivation? If you fail High School, you get an easy part-time job and then collect welfare-checks while living a healthy and long life.
- arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@satanatnmtedu
I agree with you that there is a stigma to being smart. It's a sad thing.
When I was in school, I enjoyed learning and the more the better. But there were those who felt like being intelligent or using "big words" was a horrible thing, and I was beaten up numerous times by a particular bully simply because I chose not to fail every class I was in. It was a really awful thing to think that people wanted to be unintelligent; they wanted to not know things; they wanted to hide themselves away from the fact that there was a world outside of the county we lived in, and anyone who did otherwise was horrible and ridiculous. I and a very few others who actually wanted to learn comprised a minuscule minority of the school.
Another reason why kids don't excel: they get made fun of for it.
This is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed: children will never excel and do well in their studies if they are made to feel like an outcast for wanting to learn, or for doing well at it. Kids need to understand that intelligence is what is desired, not ignorance. We need to find ways to encourage children to enjoy learning and to want to know more and to discourage maliciousness toward those who choose this path.
But this all brings another point: bullies. That is a problem that too few schools are willing to tackle, and it makes life unbearable for so many children. Bullying because of intelligence, because of looks, because of financial status, etc. Children suffer torment everyday and schools do little or nothing to stop it. As I mentioned earlier, I was a victim of bullying throughout my entire school life, and not one singe administrator ever did anything to put an end to it. Because the child's mother was well known in the community it was ok and just brushed under the rug and ignored, all the while I suffered and the tormenting became more intense and more violent. These are the kind of things that shouldn't take place in our schools. We need sound policies in our schools to combat this kind of bullying and competent administrators who are willing to do what is necessary to make it stop. If it means expelling a child from a school completely, then it needs to be done, and we need people in place in our schools who are willing to enforce tough standards to protect and encourage our children. - kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10lol I grew up in a ghetto........ We were lower middle class, and boarder line working class. I was encouraged to goto school. My peers had parents who weren't. People my age saw easy money through the selling of drugs, and through gang activity. They didn't want an education because it wasn't fast enough for them. I couldn't blame them. No one was in their lives to motivate them. no one was a role model to them. out of 20 of my childhood friends 15 of them died befor eI even reached the age of 16... I'm 19 now, and in college. The best I could do was motivate my best best friend whose mother is a crack addict, and didn't give a damn. All I could do was make sure that one friend could make it to college with me. Full ride at that. All I can do now is to get through higher education whilst helping my friend get through if he ever stumbles upon a barrier.. Most of the people who have ***** handled to them is the upper middle class, and really just White Americans in general..
- fireandicefuel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Man my situation is just like yours. I didn't apply myself throughout school until College on the whole. I didn't put forth 100% effort and still made A's in elementary and middle school. I too got used to that attitude and when high school came I started to slowly get out of honors classes because I became lazy over all those years.
I know I'm above average and right now I'm at a decent school, but definitely not the most prestigious school. I know I could have gotten into a lot more prestigious school if I had applied myself back then. Well now I have to make lemonade with those lemons haha. I really started to apply myself at this college where the average class size is about 30. My GPA is hovering at about a 3.5. Its a great thing to finally wake up one day and do something about your life and see the results of your labor. I regret all those years of laziness but I know how much it means to me now; so all the more important to change right this second. - D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I, as a High School Student, have noticed this... It scares me...a lot
- D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Ok, I don't think we've ever been #1...
But we've been better... - hawk0168, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Hasn't anyone seen one of the more obvious things in public education? We are forced to educate anyone and everyone who is of age unless they drop out. Know what that means? No, not immigration... Special Education. I have nothing against it, but it's a HUGE money sink. Special Ed kids are forced to do all the same things other kids are, like take tests they can't even read. I've seen it happen. They're forced to sit there for 1-3 hours (whatever the time limit) and stare at things they don't understand, with a helper sitting next to them getting payed to make sure they don't injure themselves. Other countries don't do this. That is one of the main reasons that America lags behind other countries in scores such as math.
@kcpwnsgman
A 25 overall is not good. It's average as far as I'm concerned. Go pad your ego with it some more. - bntphoretwunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9i like money
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