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93 Comments
- CopsSayLegalize, on 04/30/2009, -2/+32This discussion is certainly starting to heat up, but when will more politicians start to listen? You can help make that day come sooner by contacting your legislators through http://www.DrugWarDebate.com
- inactive, on 05/01/2009, -4/+21If only we had a presidential candidate who would have pledged to release via amnesty all non-violent drug offenders by executive decree.
Oh wait, we did, but Ron Paul lost anyway. - inyearstocome, on 05/01/2009, -3/+19"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
-Abraham Lincoln (1809-65) U.S. President.
Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
It's not hard to realize that prohibition is only part of a business model of a corrupt government. - Insolence, on 05/01/2009, -1/+16Keep it up, LEAP is doing great things. Maybe we'll respect cops again some day.
- buckrogers1965, on 05/01/2009, -1/+15The most pathetic thing about the whole system is that a poor person can goto prison for life for stealing a loaf of bread 3 times, while rich people get government bailouts when they steal a trillion dollars of peoples pension plans.
- Frankyfan3, on 05/01/2009, -0/+14I love that quote.
I think it rings true no matter who said it.
But it wasn't Lincoln.
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/lincoln.htm - marcosagostos, on 05/01/2009, -0/+13Why, when this discussion comes up is, the first thing that people complain about the drug war? Sure, it's bad and it needs to go away, but the fact remains that we are over-policed.
How many times do you hear the complaints about the cops who won't do anything to stop serious crimes? Yet, we have plenty of police out there enforcing traffic laws. Why? It was not nearly as profitable to punish serious crimes. So, how do people end up in prison?
The tide is changing. I have been studying this for a while and you can bet that standard procedure, nowadays, is to charge someone with assault and battery on an officer and resisting arrest. Add onto that a dubious charge and you have a conviction. Now, the private prisons can profit from the labor of these inmates.
Next time you want to come talk about being tough on crime, start in your own precinct. I challenge anyone who might digg me down to go to this website: www.restoreliberty.us and watch the feed over the next few days (the site is mine, the feed is not). Read the articles on the feed. Watch how many times "charges are dismissed" on these officers. The only time they are not, with very few exceptions, is if there are sexual allegations with a minor. Now ask yourself, how is it that the rate of convicting officers is, maybe around 10% (I'm guessing, but that may be accurate), while the conviction rate in some counties is 97% for the rest of us?
When will you stand up and say, "no more"? - GeorgeWKush, on 05/01/2009, -2/+14Prisons have turned into private companies that need customers to support themselves. The same way that military contractors need wars and occupations to support themselves.
- charlie6969, on 05/01/2009, -0/+10I regularly contact the White House and my Senators.
I called the White House about Charles Lynch and the catch-22 that our crazy laws have him in. Imprisoning sick citizens for trying to help themselves. How is that right?
I hope it helps. - inactive, on 05/01/2009, -2/+12In our Corporate driven economy people are nothing more than commodities. This is no where more evident than in the courts!
- inactive, on 05/01/2009, -0/+10What a vague blanket statement.
- royalecraig, on 05/01/2009, -3/+12Isn't the US criminal system about enslaving the Populace into their slave work camps. Same in the UK, we have ACPO which is a Privatised Police force.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=10703290 ... - Frankyfan3, on 05/01/2009, -2/+11I'll be out this Saturday May 2nd in Seattle protesting this failed war on drugs.
http://hempfest.org/drupal/march
There could be one in your area.
http://www.globalmarijuanamarch.org/ - buckrogers1965, on 05/01/2009, -2/+11If we are so good, then how come so many people on death row have been exonerated by DNA testing?
- Technopundit, on 05/01/2009, -1/+10Unless he can steal elections, like W did.
- morepowerr, on 05/01/2009, -1/+10Debtors prison. Out of work. Can't find a job. Don't worry the government has just the place for you.
1. Bad system no jobs.
2. No place to live you become a vagrant.
3. get fined or jailed for being vagrant.
4. Can't afford to pay fines. get jailed.
5. Can't pay fine stack up. Go prisons
All for being poor. Welcome to America. - inactive, on 05/01/2009, -0/+8Every one of these people are evil, without a second thought, for ever and ever.
/s - werkerholic, on 05/01/2009, -0/+7This is what is really scary
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/corr2.htm
Wow, it seems that the gov't really is trying to incarcerate everyone. One of the top 'cash crops' for the state of Florida is the Judicial System and many other state or closing in. Political awareness is a must. - deweyhewson, on 05/01/2009, -3/+10He doesn't want to take away women's rights, he wants to return the authority to make those legal decisions to the states where it rightfully belongs.
- normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -0/+7@Technopundit
Yeah! Because that's exactly what happened when we ended alcohol prohibition! We also abolished education and stopped being number one!
Face it, people drink and still get educations and hold jobs. Perhaps you've heard of college students? What about Presidents of the United States? The same is true of marijuana and many other drugs. Way to be a stereotypical ass. - morepowerr, on 05/01/2009, -0/+6Sorry but if you walk throw many of the modern school you will see that they them self's are set up like prison's. 1 & 2 cams in every room. More in the hall's and bathrooms. Armed guards walking the hall's. And brick class rooms with 2 inch steel doors. Add to that I have not in 30+ years seen a K-12 school that didn't have a 8 to 12 foot fiance around it. And I have even see ones with check point for the teachers.
- normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -0/+6Yes, and many of them make their living from the black market for drugs created by prohibition. Remember that guy named Al Capone? Same situation, different substance.
Those dollars could be funding legitimate businesses, as well as local, state and federal government programs. Instead, they are supporting thugs and gangs. - HowardBeale7, on 05/01/2009, -3/+9america has too many thugs and gangsters
- morepowerr, on 05/01/2009, -1/+7Sounds about right. To me the Ohio law system is set up just that way. Your poor off to prison you go. And you don't need to steal ***** because being poor is a crime. In and of its self here.
- Midtowner, on 05/01/2009, -5/+11This problem is only going to get worse. As "bad check" prosecutions have dropped way, way off because of increased credit card use and fewer places taking checks (this used to be a major source of funding for the D.A.'s office), there has been a serious uptick in drug and alcohol prosecutions as these are very profitable.
See folks, the D.A.'s offices are not funded (at least not mostly funded) by your tax dollars. They are, rather, funded by the fines and property they extract from criminal defendants.
What's happening now is this: To replace their money and expand their budgets, prosecutors are vigorously going after drug defendants, even when they have extremely thin cases. And of course, DUIs will always be a big cash cow. - VanhookJosh, on 05/01/2009, -4/+10Wow, that's the problem with this country, so damn self-righteous. ***** morons.
- inactive, on 05/01/2009, -2/+7"take the US criminal justice system to Darfur, see what happens."
Uh, more efficient genocide? Don't you understand that the deaths of the Darfurians by the Janjaweed are instigated via proxy by the government? - SalmonGod, on 05/01/2009, -0/+5Maybe they can afford them if they're not taxed.
And maybe lower economic classes are getting sick of condescending statements which don't really say anything but "know your place, slave" - normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -0/+5No one is complaining about locking up actual criminals. Drug users shouldn't be automatically labeled as criminals. Alcoholics aren't.
Many states have mandatory minimum drug sentencing laws, or 3 strike laws, that apply to drugs. Many people are in prison for simple possession or dealing. Those things aren't necessarily crimes. The guy who has a beer, or a liquor store owner, aren't treated as criminals.
Drug use is no different than alcohol use. It should not be a criminal problem. It should be a social problem. - charlie6969, on 05/01/2009, -1/+6Amen!
- marcosagostos, on 05/01/2009, -0/+5Case and Point: Edwina Nowlin: http://michiganmessenger.com/tag/edwina-nowlin
- Taiyoryu, on 05/01/2009, -0/+5Follow the money...
- werkerholic, on 05/01/2009, -0/+5What about the FACT that the prison system is there to rehabilitate. Your facts are cool, but realize that many of the things that you are talking about as 'cushy' have a high participation rate of people that will never see daylight again. You have to be foolish to think that someone has freely traded they're freedom for that. Most of the crimes that people get arrested for could easily be curtailed by investing more in the education of the youth that they leave behind. But, when a child goes to a school that's falling apart due to a faulty tax redistribution structure, they might begin to lose hope. Hope is a last resort before despair. Anything and everything could happen when hope is lost.
- DaDiggydiggyDOC, on 05/01/2009, -3/+8It just shows how ineffective our legal system really is.
Sadly I really doubt that it'll ever change...it's just a tool for lawyers/courts to make money off of our backs. - SalmonGod, on 05/01/2009, -1/+5or a very long, quiet, invisible civil war
- werkerholic, on 05/01/2009, -0/+4@halsey7
What about the FACT that the prison system is there to rehabilitate. Your facts are cool, but realize that many of the things that you are talking about as 'cushy' have a high participation rate of people that will never see daylight again. You have to be foolish to think that someone has freely traded they're freedom for that. Most of the crimes that people get arrested for could easily be curtailed by investing more in the education of the youth that they leave behind. But, when a child goes to a school that's falling apart due to a faulty tax redistribution structure, they might begin to lose hope. Hope is a last resort before despair. Anything and everything could happen when hope is lost.
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Most prisoners are deficient in two areas: education and money. - WakeUpToFreedom, on 05/01/2009, -4/+7You're an idiot.
- normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -0/+3I haven't seen the tax on alcohol have an unreasonable impact upon poor people. As long as it's not taxed at an outrageous level (like tobacco is becoming), it wouldn't be a problem.
- lightningbolt, on 05/01/2009, -0/+3Drugs are illegal in this country because certain corporations are making lots of money from it. This will not change as long as those corporations continue making money and contributing to politicians' campaigns. We live in a fascist state in which the will of the corporations is carried out by the government, and the will of the people and facts are ignored.
- cherrysweet00, on 05/01/2009, -0/+3Three strikes, etc. The American ideal of punishment hails from our most puritanical roots. Until we stop making hay on the backs of other people's misfortune (or innocuous hobbies!), we're lookin' at more jail time.
- maz2331, on 05/01/2009, -2/+5It's a system that's out of control hyperactive.
- Midtowner, on 05/01/2009, -0/+3Didn't digg you up or down fwiw. For support, I can only offer anecdotal information. I have several friends who intern at the D.A.'s office (as licensed legal interns). Their observations comport with what I'm saying and we're the largest county in the state so I figure it's probably pretty similar everywhere else.
- werkerholic, on 05/01/2009, -0/+2Please don't include the fake thugs and gangsters. Quiz questions: How was Georgia and other southern colonies colonized - Who made up a majority of the population ( except for the slaves / kidnap victims ) ; Who was 'Sir' Francis Drake?
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Enjoy your research - cr0c0dile76, on 05/01/2009, -2/+4By all means legalize drugs, but don't tax them!
Impose import tariffs to encourage local production. Taxing drugs would be placing a disproportionate share of the tax burden on lower economic classes of people. - normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -1/+3@deweyhewson
No, it shouldn't. We live in a Constitutional Republic, and one of the primary differences from a Democracy is that the Constitution protects minority groups from the tyranny of the majority. Slavery is a prime example.
It is the federal government's rightful place to uphold the Constitutional rights of minority groups from the majority, should that majority choose to oppress them. This is the same principle that allows religious freedom within our country. Insuring that even minority groups enjoy the rights granted to them under our Constitution is much different than forcing people to conform to the federal government's views. - DrummerDudeXT, on 05/01/2009, -0/+2thank school shootings and pedophiles/kidnappers
- normlsparky, on 05/01/2009, -0/+2Serious alcoholics also have a tendency to commit more crime. Drunk driving, violence, disorderly conduct, etc. As a society, we don't permit intoxication to be used as a defense for criminal behavior. You are still responsible for your actions.
Other drugs shouldn't be treated any differently. You shouldn't be considered a criminal until you commit a crime. Simply being under the influence of an intoxicating substance doesn't automatically constitute criminal behavior. - edebolt, on 05/01/2009, -0/+2on just about every metric of crimes per 100,000 people then crime is much lower now than in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's. I definitely like it when repeat violent offenders are locked up. Sure if your in Russia they have fewer prisons because the criminals are walking around in the general public. Maybe some US drug decriminalization can reduce some inmates but lets lock up more violent offenders. Get it on !
- LucifersDad, on 05/01/2009, -0/+1The drugs war is a strange war. Since the war was started everyday more and more people have taken them.
If it was a drugs war politicians, police, judges and lawyers would be walking around covering there face with 10 bodyguards just like Mexico. -
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