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190 Comments
- rizzo2008, on 10/27/2009, -7/+60The United States is not at war...the Marine Corps are at war...America is at the mall
- Takfam, on 10/27/2009, -7/+39We must silence dissenting opinions for the troops who fight to protect American values like Freedom of Speech!
...wait, what? - CrazedLeper, on 10/27/2009, -2/+28I thought the missed point was that the sacrifice in question was made on faulty grounds. To unknowingly die for lies, oil and world domination is not sacrifice but a disgrace. The US has no enemy nation (no, not even Iran) that presents a viable threat and it is in danger from no one more so than it's own leaders.
- crazy0, on 10/27/2009, -10/+34excuse us for living our lives while other die for ***** geopolitics
- vmass20, on 10/27/2009, -0/+21Headline should read: "Do American Boys really deserve to be sacrificed for corporate whores and not freedom?"
- nouman1989, on 10/27/2009, -1/+21Soldiers are receiving the orders from politicians,they can't say no to them.Its the politicians who are to blame.
- inactive, on 10/27/2009, -11/+30They didn't "sacrifice" themselves. They were given guns and told to shoot. Do you think for one second they would have gone to war if they knew they would die?
I know many who have served and they all say the same thing, its nice being treated like a hero but there is nothing honorable about war. Those who "sacrificed themselves" just played the odds and lost. The term "sacrifice" is a government PR term - IgorUnchained, on 10/27/2009, -7/+26Fighting brown people who dont have running water DOESNT EQUAL "Heroism".
The capacity for heroism is within war.....and giving your life for a greater good is somewhat heroic, but not every kid with no options who decided to avoid jail/get college paid for is a hero just for signing up.
Let's also get rid of their socialist health care while we are at it as well. They dont need to go fighting on foreign soil to come home to communism. Raise your hand if "your freedoms" have increased since the wars in the middle east began. Feel free to give examples. - BotchaMcCoola, on 10/27/2009, -14/+31You are missing the point. They are wasting our resources on foolishness.
- AmyVernon, on 10/27/2009, -2/+16Who? The politicians or the soldiers?
- govsucks, on 10/27/2009, -8/+22More like, Our troops don't deserve us, they deserve people that won't send them to war for ANYTHING other than the liberty of our nation and people.
Many of us seem to want the to send them to die if it supports our ideology. - inactive, on 10/27/2009, -2/+16Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you choose to identify yourself with, there's one question we ALL should be asking ourselves: "Why are we allowing our troops to be sent out to kill and die without a declaration of war"?
Seems to me that anyone, Republican or Democrat, ought to be outraged at the idea that our Government is repeatedly sending out soldiers to invade other countries without any declaration of war whatsoever. - cgrado, on 10/27/2009, -3/+16The Marine Corps *is* at war. The Army, Navy, Air Force, and even the Coast Guard are out there too.
- detcade, on 10/27/2009, -1/+13Perhaps if domestic and foreign policy issues were settled intelligently, instead of based purely on emotion and power hunger, we wouldn't NEED to send soldiers overseas.
- SilverBlade2k, on 10/27/2009, -11/+22While the US troops are dieing in the war, American Citizens are bickering about the latest boot from survivor and feel they are 'entitled' to everything without working for it.
No..we don't deserve the sacrifice of the soldiers. - inactive, on 10/27/2009, -4/+15Oh my god.
This ***** is beyond absurd - WHAT SACRIFICE?
The troops in Iraq/Afghanistan are not fighting for us. They are not defending us. I don't get why people live under this illusion that we are free because of them.
IT'S BLIND PATRIOTISM and goddamn near every person commenting in this thread is emulating a brainwashed ***** drone.
Can anyone name one single freedom that's currently being threatened by foreign enemies? I can sure as ***** name a few that our own government violates (Patriot Act comes to mind).
If the troops were to purge the corruption from our government, THEN they'd be fighting for our freedoms. - crazy0, on 10/27/2009, -3/+14why are they dying ? no one told them to enlist but chances are the stellar socioeconomics of america made it an easy choice for them
- firesphotons, on 10/27/2009, -3/+13So these two wars are about freedom then, L ***** OL. Rich ***** playing human chess, nothing more.
- crazy0, on 10/27/2009, -3/+13I am just as free as i was before the iraq war so spare me the ***** "freedom" guise
- Takfam, on 10/27/2009, -7/+17It's called vigorous debate. It's what you get in a FREE society. Contrary to what Bush and the other scum we elected into office, exercising your 1st amendment rights do not "dishonor" our service men and women and isn't unamerican.
It works both ways you see, don't try to paint "HONUR TEH TROOPS! STFU!" as a solely Left thing. - Serinus, on 10/27/2009, -1/+10She didn't say that. I was waiting for it, but it didn't come.
Despite the lack of substance, I'm reading this as call to be civil and work through problems despite our disagreements rather than a call for anyone to shut up. - crazy0, on 10/27/2009, -2/+11because they make for boring mainstream movies duh
- compubike, on 10/27/2009, -1/+10I ride my bicycle as much as possible to cut foreign dependence on oil. unfortunately it only makes me a pretension *****.
- Salamati6, on 10/27/2009, -6/+15What the hell? Our military sacrifice? Sure, we're fighting a war, but it's not against hitler, or any REAL treat to America.
Our military is just illegally invading other countries - schnikies79, on 10/27/2009, -2/+11People calling each other names, dumb-asses, traitors, etc. is not vigorous debate, but it's what we have going on in politics and in the public.
Bashing everyone who disagrees with you is unAmerican as it gets. - ericcc, on 10/27/2009, -4/+13I feel bad that American troops are dying but I really think they're dying for nothing. No country on this earth poses a serious threat to the US (maybe two, but we are not at war with them). Sacrifice implies that they are forfeiting their lives for a greater good. All I see is unnecessary loss of life.
- IIAmusedII, on 10/27/2009, -0/+8You're right, we don't deserve it, so they can stop killing Iraqis and Afghanis and come home now. That's what we deserve.
- DennisOhlson, on 10/27/2009, -4/+12Its sad that my generation is forced to fight to live, All of my friends want to get into the military just for the fact that they will pay for college. And i have a ton of freinds, so i think its rather creepy in that sense. Is something big looming on the horizon, i feel so. I do not want to go into the military, i have nothing against them, its just i do not like that sorta stuff. Most kids my age need 2 jobs and still cannot afford anything at all.
And no need to be a sob story but i hope none of my friends get hurt out there to earn their living. - BotchaMcCoola, on 10/27/2009, -2/+10If this has anything to do with freedom then give us a good argument.
- agentsrecord, on 10/27/2009, -5/+13Why don't teachers and firefighters this 'elevated' status of heroics as the military 'sacrifice'? Teachers sacrifice years of their life and firefighters just as much and it is never quite thrown in our face as much as the military.
- HisNoodly, on 10/27/2009, -9/+17They're hired killers. They signed up to kill people (or to help others kill people) for money. At the very least, they signed a binding contract agreeing to kill people, if told to do so. For money.
So no, I hold them in no great esteem. Quite the reverse, actually. And while every death is a tragedy, it's kind of hard to feel quite so much outrage when someone who deliberately lives by the sword finally dies by it. It's like the Darwin Awards; well don't DO that, then, jeez.
Cue ***** about "legal orders". Which, given the fact that the entity making the laws is the entity giving the orders, is valid for one free cup of coffee on the presentation of $2. See also: torture.
Cue ***** about "protecting our nation". Garbage. They're protecting Haliburton's shareholders' wallets.
Cue ***** about not knowing any better. Well, if that's the case then they're functionally retarded, and shouldn't be left unsupervised with a butterknife, much less a gun. - Kosh, on 10/27/2009, -6/+13How can you think that's true? How do you explain people who jump on grenades to save their comrades? How do you explain Pickett's Charge, which was near-suicidal? How do you explain the actions of General McAuliffe, who when surrounded by hostile German forces and asked to surrender, simply replied "Nuts" (read: Go to Hell) and kept fighting? How do you explain the ending of the battle of Thermopylae, where a force of (if memory serves) slightly over 1200 engaged a force much larger than their own knowing that they couldn't help but lose? How do you explain Kamikazi Pilots? You know what those all have in common? People going WILLINGLY to their deaths.
Now that's not absolute. I am quite sure that there are soldier who do exactly what you are describing, and it would not surprise me if that was the majority. But the plain and simple FACT remains that there ARE people who believe in things bigger than themselves and are willing to SACRIFICE (though I know you hate that word) their lives for it.
In brief, your argument flies in the face of over 2,500 years of military history.
Good day. - frcc, on 10/27/2009, -5/+12"Support the Troops" is code for stfu and support the neocon foreign policy.
If you want to support the troops you can advocate bringing them home and out of harm's way. - giyad, on 10/27/2009, -1/+8plus i didn't ask them to go... did you?
- sb66, on 10/27/2009, -5/+12Wow what an obnoxious propaganda piece. The very best that america has to offer? Umm no. I'd say that honor belongs to doctors and scientists, not soldiers; although they certainly deserve respect for putting their lives on the line.
- KingGorilla, on 10/27/2009, -1/+8We don't deserve it nor do we need it. Blame the higher ups for wasting our precious resources
- grnicon, on 10/27/2009, -11/+18I never asked anyone to go fight for me.
Just because some idiot that barely graduated high school picks up a gun and volunteers to get shot at doesn't automatically qualify him or her as some superior freedom fighter upholding the American way. Nor does it grant them any sort of worthwhile honor, unless you count the sort of honor and pride that comes with invading and conquering a sovereign country. The feeling a German or Soviet soldier may have had after invading Poland.
I think the opposite question is in order: do our soldiers still deserve our respect after they foolishly go off into a foreign land under false pretenses and then occupy and force democracy on a people, at the barrel of a gun?
Osama bin Laden doesn't threaten my freedom. He knocked over a few buildings and killed thousands of people. Scary, but hardly threatening to liberty. The government, however, was another story post-9/11. NSA spying, habeas corpus gets tossed out, secret prison camps get created. That's both scary and liberty-destroying at once. - askantik, on 10/28/2009, -1/+8It's not about the troops and while his comment was somewhat callous (military members have pledged to follow the country's orders, regardless of whether they agree or not), but he has a point.
Terrorism is not a nation we can declare war on... Indeed, one cannot completely eradicate something like this (hell, call me when we win the war on drugs). We invaded and have occupied 2 countries for 8 years now and we've changed the reasons we were there over and over (first it was Bin Laden, then it was to get rid of Saddam, now it's to re-build these countries and instate democracy). We really have to question whether the whole *****' thing has been worth the trillions of dollars and thousands of lives lost of not only Americans but many other nations as well. Now we're talking about potentially engaging or invading Pakistan and Syria... are we going to occupy the entire world?
Not to mention that a huge part of the reason terrorists hate us so goddamned much is because we always meddle in ***** that really has nothing to do with us (and because we support Israel even when they basically take a ***** on other countries). I'd say we need to attack the root of the problem, not the symptoms. And the root of the problem is that some people hate the West so passionately that they'd ***** blow themselves up just for a chance to kill some of us. That is an ideology that is not going to be squashed by further provoking them, IMO.
It's a complex issue, and any sane person would ask themselves if what we are doing is right... but for *****'s sake, if you say ANYTHING other than, "omg, America is great!", you get branded an anti-patriotic bastard who hates America. - ericcc, on 10/27/2009, -1/+8...but mostly brown.
- boogerthecat, on 10/27/2009, -2/+8US Soldiers do not have the option to say no to orders- unless they are CLEARLY illegal orders. NOT politically ambiguous, not politically incorrect or merely unpleasant orders.
The option that they do have is to spend the rest of their career at the mercy of the military justice system with a good chance of ending up in federal prison. - Kosh, on 10/27/2009, -4/+10"Do you think for one second they would have gone to war if they knew they would die?" Yes. Do you think everyone in the army is a clueless idiot who doesn't understand what guns do?
- ultraseamus, on 10/27/2009, -0/+6@BotchaMcCoola: Blaming individual soldiers for the US being in this war is a mistake. The whole way an army works is that not every level is involved in the bigger picture decisions. If you do not like the big decisions being made, direct all of your anger towards those making them, not the ones following orders, doing what they are told/believe to be for your safety.
- Takfam, on 10/27/2009, -3/+9@detcade
No more anti-american than MSNBC. I think FOX News just whrrgarbls louder.
The propaganda wars are like a monkey ***** fight at the zoo. They're amusing to watch from afar, but don't ever pick a side, lest a monkey get confused and you wind up covered in *****. - ultraseamus, on 10/27/2009, -0/+6@goffy59: Despite how much you want it to be, the whole situation is not clear cut. You may be absolutely certain of what you believe, but that does not make it the absolute truth. There are obviously many people who would disagree with you, and apparently our current President is one of them.
Also, these soldier you "know" sound like absolute douches. I know soldiers who are nothing like that. Besides, individual soldier's motivations can be questioned, as can their in field decisions. I am just saying that it is wrong to default to blaming all soldiers for the war. Because you start to attack people that are genuinely just trying to protect others. - mikelist, on 10/27/2009, -2/+8we need a steadfast military who are willing to be put at risk for a worthy cause. they need our commitment to avoid putting them at risk without a damn good reason, and to making sure they have the equipment to do their jobs with the least risk necessary.
to die for your country may be honorable, but it is not preferable to telling your grandkids war stories. from any point of view. - iwashere2, on 10/27/2009, -5/+11This is propaganda.
- theoccupation, on 10/28/2009, -2/+7First, I want to thank all you for so many dissenting opinons. I too, don't agree with this "war", or even the propaganda behind it that most people spew.
First, as you all say, there is no sacrifice from our troops. They are not dying for our freedom, because we are not being occupied, or attacked. Nor am I being ungreatfull for saying that.
Look, going into someone's backyard and fighting them, is NOT DEFENDING YOURSELF. When you go pick a fight on someone else's property, that's looking for a fight, that's offense. I could see if war was happening on American soil, then the Army would be defending us.
But no, when we waltz on foregin soil and engage in battles, we are offenders, offense.
I'm not asking the American Military to fight the Taliban for me, I'm not asking the American Military to defend me. Because, in case you forgot, there is no one attacking us. Yeah, they attacked on 9-11, but that was ages ago. But that doesn't give us the right to go into the Middle East and try and exact revenge. We went to war because on 911 we lost 3000 lives, and we were going to stop any more from being lost. But in the eight years since we've lost another 4000 lives (American servicemen). So, we are now out 7000 American lives, wow, we really saved lives!!!
And stop trying to make me indebted to the Military for my ***** rights!!!!!!!!
KISS MY ASS OR YOU"RE ON UNGREATFUL!!!! AGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
No No No. It doesn't work that way. My gratitude is when we are at peace, not when we do this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%2 ...
The United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) overthrew the government of Prime Minister Mosaddeq at the request of, and with minor support from the British government. In what the CIA called Operation Ajax, the U.S. enabled Mohammed Reza Pahlavi to rule as a constitutional monarch with further powers. [4]
America overthrew a DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT to install constitutional monarch
Or this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%2 ...
But my point is, the USA military is not all sunshine and roses. I'll tell you right now, I'd be mad at any country that came and ***** with our way of life. I'd be mad if someone tried to install a theocracy here. But we go and do that same ***** elsewhere.
So, in closing, I'm a man of peace, so I appreicate when the USA is at peace. Not changing regiemes, and accdiently killing people with bombs.
Oh, and just to answer the question: The government doesn't deserve the sacrifice of the soilders it sends to fight. - govsucks, on 10/27/2009, -0/+5So shouldn't each of us mind our own business and leave others free to make their own choices and quit this "Everyone must" *****?
- beatfarm, on 10/27/2009, -3/+8why are we spending all this money sending them there in the first place...
- pimpofpixels, on 10/27/2009, -13/+18At this point, ***** the troops.
This war is an invention of the Military Industrial Complex.
People who were stupid enough to sign up or not get out when they had the chance have only themselves to blame. -
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