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- corranhorn85, on 12/13/2007, -14/+79Christmas is a pagan holiday, not Christian.
- vroom101, on 12/13/2007, -6/+56I hope no one ever cites H. Res. 847 as full or partial proof that the United States of America is a "Christian Nation." And I also hope that no one ever uses H. Res. 847 in an attempt to transform the United States of America into a religio-political nation, i.e., a pseudo-theocracy.
- cusoman, on 12/13/2007, -6/+45Ladies and Gentlemen, before you go pegging this on the Christian right, please recall that a similar resolution was passed in October recognizing Ramadan and the Muslim religion.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=w ...
Just an FYI. - vroom101, on 12/13/2007, -6/+41Correction...
H. Res. 847: Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.res.8 ... - vroom101, on 12/13/2007, -1/+32Via http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.res.8 ... ( thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.res.847 ), here's the full text of the resolution that passed the House of Representatives (HRES 847 EH):
HRES 847 EH
H. Res. 847
In the House of Representatives, U. S.,
December 11, 2007.
Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;
Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;
Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;
Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;
Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its Judeo-Christian roots;
Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;
Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and
Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives--
(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;
(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;
(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;
(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and
(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.
Attest:
Clerk.
END - inactive, on 12/13/2007, -4/+34The Christianists will do ANYTHING to insert their religion into government. If you want to live in a theocracy so badly, why don't you move to Iran?
- irvman21, on 12/13/2007, -3/+30This is one of those election year things that means absolutely nothing in any real sense. Its only purpose is to force House Members to either vote for a meaningless resolution, or vote against it and open themselves up to criticism for hating Christmas. It's just politics, there is no deeper theocracy based conspiracy here.
- MikeFallopian, on 12/13/2007, -5/+28On a scale from 1 to terrifyingly fascistic, this resolution is a 1. It doesn't establish any new laws, it's just a feel-good piece of fluff to appease the people who bitched about the earlier, similar Muslim-targeted resolution . Is it a waste of time by Congress? Sure, but it's not unconstitutional or restrictive in any way to non-christians. The knee-jerk reactions on digg to stuff like this border on self-parody sometimes.
- mlostracco, on 12/13/2007, -1/+22So, basically, if Christianity is the largest religion in the world, why does it need to be "recognized" by the U.S. government?
- inactive, on 12/13/2007, -7/+27*****. You and your ilk have been trying to make your death cult the official national religion of the U.S.A. for decades.
- Elwood19k20, on 12/13/2007, -1/+19I don't consider myself an extremist by a longshot, but I honestly wouldn't mind removing stuff like "In God we trust" from our currency, (since it wasn't there to begin with), and remove "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, since it was not originally there as well. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing by keeping away from these terms, but other people more recently have messed it all up. Remember this nation was founded on religious freedom given to us by our Constitution, not by religious majority rule of faith.
- screamthenrun, on 12/13/2007, -7/+25Christmas is not a pagan holiday... however, the roots of the celebration of Christmas certainly have to do w/ pagan holidays... religions were competing (if it can be called that) for followers... when pagans converted, they brought some of their old traditions with them-- celebrating their winter festival (i dont remember what it was called... sorry)
- UberNick, on 12/13/2007, -4/+21"Because 97% of the Founding Fathers were some flavor of the Christian faith"
Google it before spreading urban legends - vroom101, on 12/13/2007, -4/+20Link...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.res.8 ... ( thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h.res.847 )
After further research I understand this is a U.S. House of Representatives Resolution and not a Bill, so it won't become a law. However the resolution's language is very troubling and I'm very surprised that it passed the House.
Full text can be also be found here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill= ... ( govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-847 ) - screamthenrun, on 12/13/2007, -3/+19similar resolution for muslims... this one was backed unanimously:
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=w ...
847 had 9 votes against the resolution - zweben, on 12/13/2007, -6/+22And that was stupid too. Let's see them pass a resolution recognizing those who do not believe in god, and expressing the "deepest respect to atheists in the United States and throughout the world". We'll stop complaining.
- mlostracco, on 12/13/2007, -2/+17I don't get it...what's the point of "recognizing" something...especially something that is pretty much already recognized and isn't going anywhere any time soon. And why is the government wasting time on this? Expliquez, s.v.p.
/Canadian - hawkspur, on 12/13/2007, -3/+17Actually, most of the Founding Fathers weren't Christian. Most of them were Atheists and Deists which were the norm during the height of the Enlightenment. This country was founded on the Enlightenment ideas of logic and reason, not Christian beliefs. Get your facts straight before spewing your nonsense.
- pintomp3, on 12/13/2007, -2/+14i'm sure they will. the christian right pushed to get "in god we trust" on our money and "under god" in the pledge. now they refer back to their own actions as proof that this country was founded as a christian nation. this is just another arrow in their quiver.
- emalen, on 12/13/2007, -1/+13What's sad about that statistic is it has nothing to do with religion but political correctness. We can't all support a Christian resolution because Christians are the big bad baddies of the religious right and it would seem prejudicial. However, we can all certainly support a Muslim resolution because that shows "acceptance" and "tolerance." That makes the unanimous support of the Muslim resolution more patronizing than earnest. *Note - I am not saying I disagree with the Muslim resolution, just the use of it as a political tool.
- flahavin, on 12/13/2007, -2/+14Great....Right before the asshats take a month off for christmas, they are writing/passing bills for holidays, we still haven't taken care of:
1. A fix for the AMT(Alternate Minimum Tax)
2. War Funding for Iraq or something official to get us out.
3. A federal reserve killing the value of the dollar intentionally
4. A Presidential Administration beating the drums to invade a third country
5. A National Debt of $10 Trillion
6. An Unsecure border and a serious illegal immigration problem
and more.... - Shakermaker, on 12/13/2007, -0/+11...because it just got it's hair cut so it looks a bit different? I didn't recognize it either...
- Acewrap, on 12/13/2007, -3/+13"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Apparently you hate America. You leave. - iconnor, on 12/13/2007, -2/+12110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. RES. 847
Recognizing the importance of Eid and the Islamic faith.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
December 6, 2007
Mr. KING of Iowa (for himself, Mr. AKIN, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BAKER, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. BOOZMAN, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. CARTER, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. DAVID DAVIS of Tennessee, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. FEENEY, Mr. FORTENBERRY, Ms. FOXX, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. HAYES, Mr. HERGER, Mr. ISSA, Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. JORDAN of Ohio, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. KLINE of Minnesota, Mr. KUHL of New York, Mr. LAHOOD, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. LAMPSON, Mr. DANIEL E. LUNGREN of California, Mr. MCCAUL of Texas, Mr. MCINTYRE, Mrs. MCMORRIS RODGERS, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mrs. MUSGRAVE, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. POE, Mr. SALI, Mr. SHADEGG, Mr. SMITH of Texas, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. TERRY, Mr. TIAHRT, Mr. WALBERG, Mr. WELDON of Florida, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. DAVIS of Kentucky, and Mrs. DRAKE) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs
RESOLUTION
Recognizing the importance of Eid and the Islamic faith.
Whereas Eid, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Muslims throughout the United States and the world;
Whereas there are millions of Muslims in the United States, making Islam the religion of many of the American population;
Whereas there are approximately 1,500,000,000 Muslims throughout the world, making Islam the largest growing religion in the world and the religion soon to be over one-third of the world population;
Whereas Muslims identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the teachings of their prophet, Mohamed, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Koran;
Whereas Muslims and Islam have contributed greatly to the development of civilization;
Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Islam;
Whereas on at the end of Ramadan of each calendar year, American Muslims observe Eid;
Whereas for Muslims, Eid is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and
Whereas many Muslims and non-Muslims throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Eid as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives--
(1) recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world;
(2) expresses continued support for Muslims in the United States and worldwide;
(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Eid and the Islamic faith;
(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Muslims and Islam in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Muslims, both in the United States and worldwide; and
(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Muslims and Muslims throughout the world. - Kythas, on 12/13/2007, -6/+16Leave, then.
- emalen, on 12/13/2007, -1/+11Oh and by the way, before you digg me down, I realize there are some religious roots of the use of trees around winter time, but they certainly predate Christianity, and for 99% of Christians today there is no religious connection to the tree but rather a secular tradition woven into the celebration.
- swaddict, on 12/13/2007, -7/+16basic separation of church and state; why aren't other religions, such as judaism, hindu, buddhism, atheism, agnostic, wicca, and even (gasp) islam. These and many other religions are practiced in the US with their own special days It's the slippery slope, slow frog boiling, etc.
- inactive, on 12/13/2007, -3/+12"some of them don't even want a public official's morality to be even indirectly based on the Bible"
You are correct. I do not want my public officials good decency and morals to be based on a scripture open to vast levels of interpretation. Very few Christian's interpretation of passages in the bible are the same. The argument is "it's suppose to be more of a moral compass". Please take your hypocritical, self indulging book and remove it from public influence. I want the bible to be no more a guide for any politician than I want the Koran. America is NOT a Christian nation despite how many self proclaimed Christians live here. - DrMonkeyLove, on 12/13/2007, -2/+11If Jesus ever really existed, all Biblical evidence points to him being born some time around June. If someone can explain to me how a vast majority of all Christmas traditions are in any way related to Christianity, I'd love to listen.
- TheHydrogens, on 12/13/2007, -0/+9Which is why they specifically didn't mention Jesus, or God by name, or the Bible. They just plum forgot!
- cusoman, on 12/13/2007, -6/+15Oh, and one more FYI: H.R. 847 isn't a law.
- Kythas, on 12/13/2007, -10/+19What's wrong with this? It's not establishing a State religion. It's simply recognizing Christianity as one of the major religions in the world - which it is.
Where's the comdemnation of the Ramadan Resolution? Did that establish Islam as the official religion of the United States? No, it merely recognized it as a major world religion - which it is.
Oh, that's right. People are only afraid of Christian things. I wonder why that is.... - Shawn4168, on 12/13/2007, -3/+12It's not a law, it's a resolution. Big difference.
- dungbeetle, on 12/13/2007, -2/+10I'm a Christian and as I drove to work today, upon hearing this, I had a facepalm moment. Why is this necessary at all? First Jesus would have a huge problem with this, what with the hypocrisy and all. Secondly, in this country anyway, if you're going to give preference to one group, you eventually will have to give preference to them all. It opened a huge can of worms that only deepens the resentment toward Christianity and religion in general. People, please don't think every Christian is like this. It makes my skin crawl to think that the same people running the war and taking our freedoms away would do something like this.
- Kythas, on 12/13/2007, -2/+10FTA: Resolved, That the House of Representatives--
(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;
Note it says "one of the great". In this instance, the word "great" does not mean "better than others" but simply of a large or grand scale. Note that World War I used to be called The Great War. Not because it was an excellent war, but because of the size and scale of it.
And, no, as you can see also, they didn't say it's the "greatest". - mlostracco, on 12/13/2007, -3/+11If there's anyone who wouldn't recognize much of contemporary Christianity, it would be Jesus himself. I imagine that if he suddenly appeared, he'd be walking around screaming, "THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT, YOU INTOLERANT DOUCHEBAGS!"
- Nothlit, on 12/13/2007, -1/+9Because it's not in any way, shape, or form newsworthy.
- ArmyOfFun, on 12/13/2007, -0/+8Care to cite this? Which article says anything like that?
- PsilocybinCube, on 12/13/2007, -16/+24Wow, I'm a Christian, but it offends me that our government would make a law which so overtly conflicts with the establishment clause. There are billions of muslims too, but I sure don't want to pass a law saying we must recognize and respect their traditions. I though the whole point of this whole 'separation of church and state' thing was to avoid these sorts of bills. Stupid politicians.
- Nothlit, on 12/13/2007, -1/+8"Even (gasp) Islam" ... you mean this? http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.RES.6 ...
- DreKor, on 12/13/2007, -0/+7Wow, you had all this space in your text box to put out a coherent and thoughtful answer and instead you quoted a bumper sticker. Sound bytes and slogans are the driving force behind the decline of serious discourse in the country. Oh, Caps lock is also harmful to intelligent conversation.
- MikeFallopian, on 12/13/2007, -1/+8A waste of time? Absolutely. Against the 1st Amendment - care to explain how that's true? (Hint: this is a resolution not a law)
- LastVisibleDog, on 12/13/2007, -8/+15Please actually read the Constitution - the first amendment prohibits the government from creating a state religion and prohibits the government from doing anything that would limit the free exercise of one's religion. H.R. 847 - while being a silly pointless bill - does not establish a state religion. You are not ever close.
- joessandwich, on 12/13/2007, -1/+7We're not trying to take the ten commandments away from you, we're trying to stop you from pushing them on us in government sanctioned places. You can feel free to live your life according to those commandments without having to put them in a courthouse.
- icecycles, on 12/13/2007, -0/+6Is this all that Congress can do these days? Can they do ANYTHING of real value? What a waste of time! I'm Christian and I don't care AT ALL about what Congress thinks about Christmas! Do something like worthwhile like impeachment followed by the restoration of the constitution!
- JoeVet, on 12/13/2007, -1/+7This resolution has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity. It has everything to do with the 9 democrats who voted ney. This will be used in a most unchristian way to further a republican candidates election bid.
- gn0stik, on 12/13/2007, -0/+6As a Christian, I don't understand what the issue is with you people. You seem to think you have some kind of right to a state religion. This is complete garbage. It's not historically accurate that this has ever been a "Christian nation" nor is the idea of a Christian nation biblical. Jesus said "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Give unto God, that which is God's."
For centuries we persisted in countries that did not want us, and did it gracefully. We converted people with understanding and compassion, never having dictated anything to anyone. Christianity became the worlds largest religion, because it was a religion of love. Until the dark ages that is. Since then, we really haven't recovered as religion. We got fat on the idea that we were the big kid in town, and now feel entitled. Well, I call BS. We are no more entitled to anything than anyone else, and unless we stop this arrogant crap, we're not doing any good. Until Christianity rediscovers the humility that Jesus spoke about, you types will continue to create more Atheists than Christians. You will continue to damage the body of Christ.
Besides from a doctrinal standpoint, its a contradiction, it makes no sense.. There can be no Holy Nation, not Roman, not Spanish, not French, not American, not anywhere, biblically, until Christ takes the throne. So who are you guys kidding? - MacEnvy, on 12/13/2007, -4/+10Oh, hi "Jimmy". Are you new?
/s - flygirl62, on 12/13/2007, -1/+7True, A better statement would have been what I have been thinking:
"I hate the direction that this country seems to be heading" - nblsavage, on 12/13/2007, -0/+6awww....the poor oppressed majority. My heart bleeds.
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