What is Digg?44 Comments
- ramilehti, on 05/25/2009, -8/+25So this is what goes for a worthy debate in the US nowadays.
LOL
Neither of them are actually for releasing the prisoners that have been ILLEGALLY detained WITHOUT A TRIAL and TORTURED for YEARS.
Obama wants to come up with a legal framework for prolonged detention without trial.
Cheney is still ringing the 9/11 bell.
Shame on them both. - inactive, on 05/24/2009, -9/+20Why is there even a debate? Dick Cheney holds no office and therefore should hold no power.
- pintomp3, on 05/25/2009, -7/+16Waterboarding is torture and we shouldn't be doing it. There is no debate.
- mparker21311, on 05/25/2009, -1/+9Our government is trolling us with this political theater.
- michaelpinto, on 05/25/2009, -8/+16If Dick Cheney really believed in what he was saying then he should have run for President on his track record.
- sheasie, on 05/25/2009, -8/+15"Too bad we could not get this level of debate during the campaign." ?
In order for this "debate" to have happened during the campaign, Cheney would have had to publicity admit that he authorized torture - during the campaign. And we all know Cheney did not want that information coming out (for obvious reasons). Cheney was dragged kicking and screaming out of the torture closet.
And for the record, the debate was over the moment America sentenced Japanese soldiers to death for water boarding American troops during WWII. What... are you now saying America was wrong to sentence those war criminals to death ?!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Cheney is a war criminal. It's disgusting that he can get on prime time TV, let alone freely roam the streets. - Meowbiusfox, on 05/25/2009, -4/+10This is such B.S.
- inactive, on 05/25/2009, -3/+8Here's what a recent Pew Poll said about what Americans believe about torture and terrorists:
"Use of torture in dealing with suspected terrorists is:
often justified (15%)
sometimes justified (34%)
rarely justified (22%)
never justified(25%)
Only a quarter of Americans believe it's NEVER justified. That's why Cheny's arguments are getting traction. - kanojo1969, on 05/25/2009, -6/+11What a weird column. This wasn't a debate, cheney was just lying through his teeth and obama's rhetoric was eviscerated by his contradictory plans for imprisoning people on a whim, announced in the same speech.
And this guy then says they are both right to refuse an investigation? This is the most retarded coverage of those two speeches I've yet seen. - davids1243, on 05/24/2009, -5/+10"... rare and splendid moment..." sounds like what my grandmother (bless her heart) might say regarding a new flower she saw at the county fair (BTW, what's the opposite of "grow up"?). Come on Broder get with program, anything, having ANYTHING to do with Cheney can not be "a rare and splendid moment" unless you like having your balls squeezed in a vise.
- inactive, on 05/25/2009, -1/+5@LBTS
We're afraid that the evil Islamic terrorists that openly declared war on us, and then attacked us over and over in the 90s will continue to attack and kill us if we don't take steps to stop them.
Remember? World Trade Ctr I, Khobar Towers, two African embassies, the USS Cole, and Sept 11.
And if they could do even worse to us, do you think they would hold back? It's clear that if they could kill a million Americans they would do it.
Smarter, braver, and better men than you are working to try and save your life, even as you mock them. - poprocksandsoda, on 05/25/2009, -8/+12Bush doesn't need to be around as long as Obama is repeating his talking points verbatim.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?vide ... - DulcetTone, on 05/25/2009, -3/+7I think it's fair to say it's torture, but it apparently doesn't injure the subject when done in the "proper" manner, and so it comes down to a bad fright imposed on a person that is primeval in its impact.
The issue seems to be that a fair portion of the US is ready to believe that some small number of men affiliated with Al Qaeda deserve to be badly frightened if there's a chance that such a treatment will uncover answers that might prevent further attacks. So then it boils down to a question of degree for a sizable segment of society.
It doesn't really help if people who oppose this continually rally behind specious arguments that follow the pattern:
1. describe a method of questioning that will surely fail whether or not torture is employed -- asking someone to reveal a future attack about which the questioner knows nothing at all, and indeed cannot be sure exists is a great example.
2. describe a hypothetical instance where torture is employed with the fundamentally flawed questioning
3. claim this proves torture cannot coerce valuable truth from a reluctant subject - induren, on 05/25/2009, -2/+5This op-ed is ridiculous. Cheney is defending an activity that has been found illegal by the United States multiple times and has been the cause for the US sentencing foreign soldiers to death. This isn't a debate it's a debacle. It's idiotic. It's pathetic that people even think it's a debate.
- bsmang, on 05/25/2009, -4/+7Dumb troll.
- inactive, on 05/25/2009, -2/+5What are you afraid of?
- LBTS, on 05/25/2009, -7/+10Actually, it's not us who are afraid, it's Dick Cheney, he's scared to death. He and Bush ran around like their heads had been cut off, and all the time screaming at the top of their lungs: "they're coming to get us, they're coming to get us."
Freaking scaredy cat republicans. The real question is what are THEY afraid of? - inactive, on 05/26/2009, -1/+4@8foldpath
Congratulations on the vaguest post on the thread. - pr3998, on 05/25/2009, -5/+8Really? that is the only way to prove a man's ideas??
- bot001220, on 05/25/2009, -4/+6@Suffolk
Because let's face it; Bush wasn't really the mastermind behind the previous administration... it was the ex-Haliburton CEO and the man (who many people forget) oversaw the first Gulf war as the Secretary of Defense. - inactive, on 05/25/2009, -5/+7Yet there is a debate. Must be tough on you.
- inactive, on 05/25/2009, -9/+11Cheney is talking. And people are listening.
Why do you have a problem with that? What are you scared of? - inactive, on 05/25/2009, -2/+4@bot001220
Regarding Haliburton...did you know that the Clinton administration used them extensively in Bosnia and Kosovo, for example?
Awarded them multi-million dollar no-bid contracts? Over and over?
Regarding first Gulf war, do you think it would have been a good idea to allow Iraq to take control of Kuwait's oil AND then Saudi Arabia's? - nirvanix, on 05/25/2009, -2/+4The thing is, there isn't really a set of sharply contrasting views being put forward. Cheney is just providing a smoke screen while Obama slips through some further anti-constitutional legislation.
- quirkopatra, on 05/26/2009, -1/+2That was brilliant suffolk. The 1,2,3 method has been laid out for them. There were even entries on Digg about "How to defeat Republican talking points on torture."
I'm not certain waterboarding is torture.
The problem with trying to have this debate is that we are lacking all the facts. There's apparently more information not being released about WHAT was prevented by it. We need this information. - SirCharge, on 05/26/2009, -0/+1I don't think you're using the word 'boundary' properly. I'm trying to decide if you're ESL or using a thesaurus badly.
- opticwind, on 05/25/2009, -2/+3I have to say, even though I completely disagree with some of his comments, Cheney brought up several half-decent point. But then he went and ruined that with some very small-minded talk.
- SpinningHead, on 05/25/2009, -3/+4I learned from Dick Cheney that questioning an administration while at war weakens us in the eyes of our enemies. He wasn't lying was he?
- SirCharge, on 05/26/2009, -0/+1No Japanese soldiers were ever executed specifically for waterboarding. They were all tried for a wide variety of crimes. In addition, the Japanese version of waterboarding was different than the American. The Japanese were pouring water directly into the victims nose (not using a cloth) and then when the victim swallowed the water to the point that their belly became distended the Japanese would often hit and kick them in the stomach.
- quirkopatra, on 05/26/2009, -1/+2Japanese were not executed for waterboarding. There is no instance of them being sentenced with the statment, "The punishment for waterboarding is death." Waterboarding was AMONG the things the Japanese did, but the death sentences were given for heinous acts they did resulting in deaths, not waterboarding.
- inactive, on 05/26/2009, -1/+2Yeah, what was prevented.
I have a feeling that will be the interesting part because Obama is trying to set up his defense for that by claiming that we COULD have uncovered information some other way.
Sure. And I COULD be in a hot tub with two supermodels. - SirCharge, on 05/26/2009, -1/+2No Japanese soldiers were ever sentenced to death for waterboarding. It was one of the crimes mentioned for a few people who were hung, but was generally the least offensive practice they were hung for. A Japanese soldier also received 15 years in prison for waterboarding.
From wikipedia's entry on waterboarding describing the Japanese method:
"In this version, interrogation continued during the torture, with the interrogators beating the victim if he did not reply and the victim swallowing water if he opened his mouth to answer or breathe. When the victim could ingest no more water, the interrogators would beat or jump on his distended stomach.ater boarding."
That is compared to the American method which entails placing a porous cloth over someone's head and then pouring on water. The American method isn't likely to be fatal because the water isn't actually entering the body. Its just extremely uncomfortable.
Personally, I still think its torture. However, comparing what was done in Japanese prison camps to what was done by the Americans isn't accurate. - quirkopatra, on 05/26/2009, -1/+2We did not execute Japanese for waterboarding. Waterboarding was a walk in the park compared to what they did.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWQ4YTBiY ... - dwiezel, on 05/26/2009, -1/+1Cheney sure schooled Obama -- it was much nicer when the adults were in charge.
- marcseltzer, on 06/10/2009, -0/+0I think it was a great historic American debate. People are two absorbed in football politics to realize that this is how democracy works. I salute them both. http://www.care2.com/causes/politics/blog/obama-v- ...
- avshanbh, on 05/25/2009, -4/+4Dick Cheney is beneath contempt. He no longer holds any office so he should just STFU and go hide in his undisclosed bunker.
- jimw428, on 05/26/2009, -1/+1Do you say that to Jimmy Carter when he runs around the middle east undermining U.S. foreign policy?
- jimw428, on 05/26/2009, -1/+1FTA
"Avoiding interrogation techniques such as waterboarding, which historically have been classified as torture, not only clears our conscience and improves our reputation; it protects our own troops when they are captured."
This is the biggest liberal crock of crap I've ever read. If anyone thinks for one minute that what we do, or don't do, has any effect on how the terrorist's treat our troops when captured, they have another think coming. It's beyond naive to think that the people we're fighting will honor the Geneva Convention. These people are cold blooded killers that wouldn't waste their time with something as tame as water boarding. - DigitalisAkujin, on 05/25/2009, -4/+3The only thing that could possibly make up for this faux pas would be the viewing of this video immediately after Chaney's speech:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/22/mancow-wa ...
Sprinkling some reality into the discussion is a necessity to avoid the circus. - 8FoldPath, on 05/26/2009, -3/+2The debate is coming from the ignorant. These issues have already been decided long ago, except that the ignorant cannot be bothered to open up a history book and become less...well, ignorant.
- kuzotz, on 05/25/2009, -6/+5its a debate because Americans are too ***** stupid.
- sodade, on 05/25/2009, -5/+2This is how they bound the argument. We all know that Cheney is representing a point of view that makes him a threat to peace in the world - that boundary is well known by now. All Obama has to do is knock down the ridiculous strawman of the neocon position to present a contrast. Obama is presenting a "soft" boundary to the argument that many will get on board with just to feel the relief of kicking the "dumb old bitter white guy" neocon mindset to the curb.
This is how Obama gets away without having to say: yes, we should put these traitorously criminal neocons on trial. - Ne007, on 05/25/2009, -8/+4***** Dick!
- alanocu, on 05/24/2009, -32/+7I’m glad we still have Dick Cheney as acting vice president. Just for the record, I do think it’s disrespectful how Cheney keeps referring to the president as “that little bitch.”
How awful for Obama though. Even the liberal Guardian is saying how Obama trembles at the feet of Dick Cheney. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/24/dick-c ...
As for Gitmo closing, I guess we should be happy Obama is too incompetent to follow through on his reckless policies.
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