What is Digg?340 Comments
- loudribs, on 10/12/2007, -6/+95What the ***** happened to the whole separate church from state notion? This stuff shouldn't even matter.
- drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -11/+92Freedom of Religion.
As long as it's your religion right? - MadKennyP, on 10/12/2007, -8/+83What's a cause for worry? That we might democratically elect people to office who practice a religion other than Christianity? I don't see why that's a cause for worry.
- meepus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+64The comment made by the representative is the only cause for worry. Elitism breeds bigotry breeds evil. Are non-muslims better than non-muslims? No, we're all humans (the men that were created equal in the declaration and all that) and therefore all equal. If muslims are just as good as everyone else, then muslims getting elected is just as good as anyone else getting elected. To think otherwise is to be bigoted.
The logic that all muslims are a threat (read: terrorists) is the most mind-bogglingly idiotic thing to hit american minds since the idea that all russians (OBVIOUSLY communists! There's a gene!), all gooks (the korean word for 'America', idiot bigot, is migook. You're the gook in Korea, and in Vietnam), all japs (no Hitler, not Jewish American Princesses, but the Japanese-Americans we put in internment camps in World War II... our fellow citizens) are threats. Why do we have to constantly have an enemy to point a finger at in order to remain homogeneous? Is it human nature to require an enemy?
I hate no specific group of people, except for maybe these bigots... but I respect their right to say bigoted things. That's protected by the first amendment. So then, with the constitution polarizing us, are we, the competent, always going to be at war with them, the incompetent? It's a conflict that has been recurring throughout American history... all the way back to the revolutionary war. Everything British is a tory and the enemy! Suppress, maim, or otherwise kill it! But wait, we like the British! We just don't want them ruling us. And yet... for some reason, we seem to think that the world wants us to rule it?
Allowing true freedom means leaving the other guy alone when he doesn't need you, and helping him out when he does. If evil men rise to power and threaten that freedom, it's fine to take them out. But Saddam was never threatening to WMD anybody. We just accused him of it, didn't prove it, and then deposed him. I'm not saying that he should have remained the ruler of Iraq... but I'm definitely saying that it wasn't our place to make that judgment call.
America, have you forgotten the principles upon which you were founded? I'm of the mind that you have. BE REMINDED OR SOMETHING, GODDAMNIT! *bitchslap* Stop electing bigots! For *****'s sake! - ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -9/+56America, the best in human rights, as long as you're the right humans!
- ardenr, on 10/12/2007, -21/+64When America miraculously solves the middle east crisis it created, ends all wars on words that can never actually be won (terror, drugs etc.) and reforms it's prison system while abolishing minimum and death sentances, then maybe you can take the moral high ground.
I know I'm leaving alot out, but my point stands. Seriously, the US elected* Bush twice, if you can say these people are steeped in misogyny violence and fundamentalism (hah!) then I can say Americans are steeped in corruption, ignorance, prejudice and brutality.
How will anything change if these 'poor souls' can't come here and see our 'shining example' with their own eyes? YouTube? - thetanbark, on 10/12/2007, -8/+46This just in...
Not all Muslims are bad, not all Muslims hate America.
Do you know how many other people equally hate America? Hell, even people born and raised in America that hate what their government does. Like it has been said before, if your country was invaded because of a group of people stationed there or your government, you would be pretty mad too. Stop acting like everything America does should be met with red carpets and rose petals.
99.9% of Turkey is Muslim. I don't see any of them in the national spotlight on "terror."
You all need to stop generalizing. - smeagel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+41@joewoods and gscdssdfsd whatever your name is:
Your Muslims-ruin-countries theory is BS. I live in NYC, where there are many many Muslims, there are entire neighborhoods of Muslims. One of my friends lives in a Muslim neighborhood in queens. There are absolutely no problems, in fact the crime is quite a bit lower than the surrounding areas. Muslims don't ruin countries, people who make broad generalizations and then attempt to force them into law do.
and gscd, Islam doesn't give anyone the right to kill anyone. There are misinterpretations that do that, just like there are misinterpretations of the bible that have lead people to bomb abortion clinics. The vast vast majority of Muslims worldwide are non-violent. They have the right to practice whatever they want, this is AMERICA. Some of the first (European) people on this continent were nutball Christians who weren't adverse to burning people at the stake. - ahsen74, on 10/12/2007, -2/+35@SeafoodGumbo
"It is ludicrous to assert that men coming from that culture will be anything but a bad influence on our dramatically freer society."
Err... I don't think 16,000 Saudis can change our culture. What is much more likely is that they will take back some of our values to their society and hopefully engage in making a "dramatically freer society" in Saudi Arabia.
Most (all?) of the Westernization/secularization efforts in Muslim countries have sprung from leaders who were educated in Western universities. - meepus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36I'd like to remind all the bigots in this thread that respecting and treating all humans equally is not being politically correct. The Constitution is not political. It IS the foundation of the government of the United States of America. The Constitution says that Muslims have the same rights as anyone else in this country. It takes a hell of a lot of ELECTORAL votes to override anything in the Constitution. Your vote is merely one in a sea of regular votes. Therefore, your scattered, ignorant opinions do not matter.
Also, this country was founded without a religion. There is an official separation of church and state in this country, and therefore we are not a Christian country. The founding fathers were deists. They believed in a benevolent supreme being at most, and in none of the idiotic dogmatic doctrines of the Church, who shot the remaining shards of what Jesus taught his disciples out of the canon as soon as they had the chance to seize power over the lives of others. We are not a country for Christianity. We are a country for human beings.
In New York, it says "Give me your tired, your poor,/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
It does not say "Give me your rich, your bigoted,/Your power-hungry warlords yearning to destroy me."
So, in two words? ***** off. - ardenr, on 10/12/2007, -13/+45BigKitty, I can tell the future, so call me a prophet... You will be dugg down to hell when this hits the front page.
If anyone found her comment as funny as I did, try http://digg.com/users/BigKitty/news/commented - trollicious. - kakapu4u, on 10/12/2007, -17/+46BigKitty, sometimes it's too obvious that you're just trying to start a fight.
- CraigB12, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28I think i'd rather have good muslims here than bad white people.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24That is a fallacy. Of course the US has a culture. You're blind to it because it's yours, but I assure you that it's highly visible from the outside.
- azzrik, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26I think people get culture mixed up with a way of life, Australia hasn't got a culture as such, unless you want to call a Meat pie and a glass of beer a culture, but here in Australia our way of life has been attacked, from the way our women dress, to being openly threatened, the thing being, over the years we have had nearly every nationality come here, and never has there been more concern for our way until recently, there's an increase of rape and gang rapes on women, by middle eastern men, certain parts of neighbor hoods are now avoided by people of non Muslim appearance, Lebanese Muslims openly make Rap songs, about beating up Australians, even though they are second or third generation Australian them selves, if you are from a culture that may not be compatible with the place you wish to live then maybe that person should rethink there motives for wishing to move to that country in the first place.
Most western countries welcome immigrants, we have some of the greatest varieties of food in the world thanks to immigrants, I my self have many foreign friends, but if you were to talk to them and ask why they first moved here, they will tell you, it was for our way of life, I can't speak for other countries, but here in Australia, the Muslim problem is growing, and is going to continue to grow, you can not take a country and divide it up and say Muslims here, Christians here, Buddhist here and so on, you have to integrate, and up until now every one has, except the Muslims, as I said I can only speak from Australia's point of view, and I feel that any Muslim that wishes to come to Australia is welcome, if they are coming for our life style, because if your not, then you would be better going else where, because this is who we are. - spudnic, on 10/12/2007, -7/+29So he's scared the government will be ran according to a religion of which he is not a member... great, now he knows how every non-christian feels about the current government.
- Paroparo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+29From your post it looks like they'll fit right in. Things like "7th century ideas about women, infidels, and jihad" or "misogyny, violence, and fundamentalism" are definitely on the rise amongst the conservatives in the US, probably as a counter-movement to all the progress since the 50s. The only difference here being that they're blindly fundamental about a different religion, but I'm sure they'll get along eventually.
- FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28More Muslims in office? Whats the big *****' deal bitch?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26religious lunatics, racists and ultra-nationalists come from any religion, why discriminate?
- Chebyshev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Sounds to me like you only want to allow people that share your morals into the country. Like it or not, the US is a melting pot and deciding who gets in and who doesn't based on religion (which is what his article is talking about) is completely counter to the founding principles of this country.
As for deciding based on other factors, I'm torn. I'd love to only allow smart and productive people into the country, but America is supposed to be the land of opportunity. Why should we deny that opportunity to a farmer from Mexico? And who is to say that that farmer isn't the best and most innovative farmer in history? How are we to know?
And about the 16,000 Saudis - look at it this way: maybe studying in the American environment where women are equals will have a positive influence on them. Maybe they will take their experience in the US home to Saudi Arabia and start to implement changes in that country. Or maybe not, who knows. But denying someone entrance to the country because they come from a country that is misogynistic and they might pull us down to their level is ignorant. - CraigB12, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20The CIA just added about 5000 points to your tourist terrorism profile
- wreckingcru, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Thank you for a very insightful comment.
I'm originally from India, but lived here in the states for the past 6 years or so. And yes, I was there when "IT" happened. I saw the whole thing unfold in front of my eyes.
But ever since the whole "War on Terror" (read: War on Islam/Muslims/Arabs) started, I've felt very aggrieved since the Islamic/Arabic culture is SO unfairly depicted here. I'm not a Muslim, but I've had tons of friends who are, including Arabs. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world, and even though it's still a pretty small minority, we've had many leaders who are Muslim (including our current president), and the fact is, Islam is WAY nicer than the way America sees it.
I've known Arabs all my life, and they are some of the nicest, most generous people I've met - they have no qualms about being friends with a non-Muslim/non-Arab and have always been very welcoming of all people. I've known Muslims my whole life as well, who are polite, normal, well-educated and fairly intelligent people. They don't believe in suicide bombings, jihad and "holy war". They do what EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD did, before 9/11 re these factions - IGNORE THEM!!! The more you fan the fire, the more it rises. If it's mostly ignored by others (and hence, not-endorsed), it never grows into a serious problem.
Oh, and btw, this is in stark contrast to most of the white people I met (I lived in Indiana for 4 years thru college), who talked to me with a suspicious reservation, had no idea what or where India was, and avoided the 'brown people' like we brought the plague.
Just something to put things in some perspective. - Danial, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23"I'm an atheist, and I'd damn sure rather have Christians running the place than Islamofascists. The former have cleaned up their act in the last Century or so; the latter are still stuck in the 7th."
Go tell that to the Lord's Resistance Army based out in Uganda.
"Since there aren't literally hundreds of millions of Christians in the world who advocate that people like us be put to the sword, and there ARE literally hundreds of millions of Muslims who do, you might want to reconsider your position while you still can."
Oh please, what a bunch of *****. Get a life, hundreds of millions of Muslims do not want to convert you or anyone else by the sword. Here's a verse to refute your ***** post from the Qu'ran: "There is no compulsion in religion".
Look it up, then think before you post such a stupid thing next time. - jsg7, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21I think he should consider sponsoring a bill requiring separation between church and state. That would fix the problem...
- noodlez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16the US has a culture, but its a culture that was arrived at by taking the cultures of many other places (britain, ireland, germany, poland, italy, native america, west africa, etc..) and mixing them all together. it boggles my mind to think that adding in one more will somehow impurify the hodgepodge culture we already have.
i wonder how many people today still believe in the ideal that was written on the statue of liberty, a national icon of ours. - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -18/+30Observation: The Muslim communities around the world are largely extremely conservative, very repressive, and not free. I think we could make the observation that the more Muslim a community is, the more repressive it is. Now which came first? The repressive community, or the religion? I really don't know, but unless you have your head stuck in the sand simply observing the world at large you will see that there is not an example of a largely Muslim country that isn't repressive, and I mean makes the Bush administration and Gitmo look like girl scouts repressive.
- Chebyshev, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@norrin
He's not talking about terrorism you troll. He's talking about these Saudis supposedly spreading misogynistic ideas around the country. - pdahlem, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Or think about it this way: these men who are educated here will go back and be the next generation of leaders in their society. If they're educated in America, at least they have a chance of learning to see things from a different perspective and bring that back to their countries, no? Maybe they will end up being advocates for freedom, women's rights, etc., because of what they experience here? I wouldn't be so quick to exclude "bad influences"; it takes away our chance to be a good influence on them.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Just to note, your rant about immigrants isn't valid here because these Saudi students are not immigrants, they're just visiting students.
- Roger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17He probably feels the same way about black people.
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -20/+29Why worry about a few muslims? All those jews running US companies and political groups hardly caused any problems either.
- loudribs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11well said danial...if you listen to half the ***** being put out here you would have to conclude that muslims default setting is "evil". What *****. America has to sort out this near patholgical hatred it's developing because it makes a sham of everything america should stand for. Get tollerant and do it quickly for all our sakes.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19its Big Kitty - or is that BigOtry?
- jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Muslims are not a race, dumbass.
- sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23Excuse me, you're all missing the point - America doesn't have a culture of it's own to have a bad influnce on in the first place. What, you think you get a culture in less than 300 years?
- Danial, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Maybe because France needed workers to fuel its post-war boom in the 60's, only to dump them in disgusting ghettos later on?
Didn't even bother to teach them French, as long as they did the work done.
They reaped what they sowed for their lack of planning. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7However, those Saudi immigrants represent hundreds of billions of investments in the US and dollars in Saudi banks, them being the sons of the ruling Saudi. Remember, Saudi Arabia owns the US with all the oil they have exported in the last decades. If you anger the Saudi they might just go and trade dollars into euro's and you cant have that, right?
No, I am affraid the US will have to live with an invasion of medievalists for a while. Maybe those Saudi will develop a love relationship with some parts of the US and start watching Fox. - jefree, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Cross culture pollination is important for long term world peace, but it does have to be at controlled pace. Large movements of people will cause culture clashes and strife, but it's not like isolationism makes the problem better, it just puts off the problem for another future day while making the rift bigger. However, the Muslim culture does seem at odds with Christian culture, but more troubling to me is that it is at odds with modern agnostic and social tolerance that are transcending the old school religious culture in the West. I fear that process may become derailed by Muslim influence that is centuries behind in philosophical progress.
- SeafoodGumbo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ sfacets
[America doesn't have a culture of it's own to have a bad influnce on in the first place.]
Yeah right. That's why American music is on the radio in Japan, but Japanese music is not on American radio. That's why Russians are wearing blue jeans, but we're not wearing those funny Russian hats.
And imagine all of those inventions and ideas that define the modern world that came from America.
What about all of the trends that have started in California - from hippies to skateboards to surf music. Skyscrapers? Women's rights? Martin Luther King, Hunter S. Thompson, bluegrass music? The Internet?
Advances in medicine? Men on the moon? Space shuttles? Probes into deep space? The Hubble telescope?
The Simpsons, Martin Scorsese, Milton Friedman?
Basketball? Football?
No culture you say. Yeah right - you just don't like our culture, is all.
I'm going to put on some James Brown while I surf the Internet in my baseball cap. - Dardoush, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12There is a big difference between Islam and the people who practice it wrong!
If a Christian is a killer, does that mean Christianity is bad?
And why attack Koran? Did you read it? - Danial, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11"For all of you nutcases defending Islam, let me tell you what and how Islam works:"
And you are a scholar? Just because you read JihadWatch or LittleGreenFootballs, you are now automatically an expert on Islam?
Hilarious.
"1) Islam is NOT a religion, It's a way of LIFE. That means everything you do in life must be Islamic in nature."
So basically, you're saying that in order to be a Muslim, you must emulate an Arab?
"2) Muslims owe allegiance only to ALLAH and ALLAH alone and to nothing else. So they need not defend a nation in case of an invasion."
Uh-huh, sure.
"3) Islam does not integrate well with other cultures & civilizations."
India, Spain, Persia, Anatolia, and Indonesia would differ with your account.
In fact, Muslims translated and stored works of Greeks in the House of Wisdom before it was destroyed by the Mongols in the 1200's.
"4) Muslims do not follow birth control. In fact Islam encourages Muslims to have as many babies as possible to passively take over a country."
Yeah, that is why clerics in Iran have actively encouraged family planning policies to curb the population growth in that country?
"5) Muslims have to pray 5 times a day where ever they may be facing the direction of Mecca."
There have been some dispute to this, but it's mainly between the Sunnis/Shi'as/Qu'ran-only Muslims.
The Shi'as some of them pray 3 times a day whereas the Qu'ran-only Muslims do not believe in praying at all.
"6) It is perfectly legitimate for a Muslim to indulge in murder as long as it's jihad. No remorse or feelings will come between."
Not true. Islam has strict rules of engagement when it comes to warfare.
"7) In Islam, women are meant only for the production of babies and nothing else."
Go tell that to Hina Jillani and Asma Jehangir.
4 Muslim countries have had female prime ministers: Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. Now have we ever had a female President throughout our history? Nope.
So who the hell are you to claim that women are meant only for the production of babies. There are plenty of respected Muslim women who do more than "reproduce".
"Did you guys know that a non-Muslim cannot enter Mecca/Medina?. If a non-Muslim entered Mecca/Medina,it's punishable by beheading. I'm not exaggerating."
That's Wahhabism, nothing to do with real Islam.
"So if you people want to retain the USA as it is now, I would any day go with Christian/Buddhist/Jewish religions, than with Islam, cause Islam is not a religion, but a way of Life itself. "
So where is the dhimmitude in Dearborn? I don't see people trying to enforce Shariah there, and I've been there a few times with a large Muslim population. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@birkoph
You bring up an interesting point. I'm a natural citizen of the United States, but I do have the ability to travel. And one of the reasons that I'm not in a place like, say, Saudi Arabia is that I rather like freedom of religion. So why are there so many conservatives who want to establish an official state religion here in America when it's clearly forbidden by the first Amendment to the Constitution? I say conservatives need to adapt to the American way of life or go to a country more amenable to your way of thinking, like Saudi Arabia. - omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Goodbye Red Scare, hello Green Scare. Who are we at war with this time – Eurasia or Eastasia?
- Danial, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7BTW people, Muslims in America are not like the Muslims in Europe. American Muslims are educated and wealthy for the most part. Many own businesses, many are doctors, many are lawyers, many are engineers, many Muslims contribute quite a bit to the American way of life; more white trash leech off of welfare than American Muslims do. Go to Dearborn and see how many Muslims own business there. Majority of the health care industry is dominated by South Asians.
Muslims in America are not interested in imposing Islam on America. It is fighting through intellectual means for America to accept Islam. Unfortunately, these efforts are often ruined by the likes of al-Qaeda and the fundamentalist ilk who pick and choose certain parts of the verses that suits them yet discard the others that doesn't. Go to altmuslim or MuslimWakeUp for further proof of the efforts by progressive Muslims to change how Islam is seen through the eyes of non-Muslims.
Some of you need to get your heads out of your asses. Muslims are here to stay in America, whether you like it or not. Most of you morons tend to view all Muslims as a ***** monolithic entity representing the Taliban and Saudi Arabia, when on the contrary, it is too diverse to be seen as monolithic.
I bet most of you idiots who agree with this dumbass believe that the great Persian Sufi poet Rumi is a terrorist LOL - baxtermaddux, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10WE don't want YOU here
- meepus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Oh, and Joe Woods, or whatever your name is?
In my comment, when I discussed what it says in the Constitution about rights for all American citizens, I was referring to something that I would like to conserve. That's right! I was being CONSERVATIVE! It is a liberal idea (read: something grounded in change) to take America, a country founded on principles of equal rights, and change its principles to favor those of one religion or another.
Stop giving us REAL conservatives a bad name by acting like you speak for us. You don't. Neither does George W. Bush. Let's preserve our rights, and the rights of others, shall we? We should start with taking back Habeas Corpus. - baxtermaddux, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11i can only hope that more muslims will come to america. thats exactly what we need to counteract the hate and expose the bigots.
what would be really funny, is if masses of americans just decided to convert from christianity to islam here. that would certainly test the chrisian movements tolerance level - Bobski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@wreckingcru
(freer, btw, is not a real word)
Guess again: http://www.tfd.com/freer - repins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5How quickly people forget that "freedom of speech" does not just mean "speech you agree with", it does not mean you have the right to "never be offended".
This guy has a right to say whatever he wants, and the people he represents will judge him on that when the vote again, because they have the right to vote. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I fear...we will have many more dumb bigots in the United States.
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