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215 Comments
- jsffive, on 03/24/2009, -17/+109Professor Turley never disappoints me. Torture WAS committed in our names. The only thing left to reconcile, is what sentence Bush and Cheney get.
Mr. Turley is right in his analysis that, by allowing this to become a policy debate, it diminishes the fact that CRIMES were committed. I realize that an investigation, and prosecution of these war crimes would hurt Mr. Obama's polling numbers, but he would definitely earn MY respect... and I voted for Chuck Baldwin!
Mr. Obama's response to Mr. Cheney's comments SHOULD have been to start investigations.
We cannot allow the precedent to be set, or else, the NEXT guy may be emboldened to commit even more egregious atrocities.
Bravo, Mr. Turley! And bravo, Ms. Maddow! - JoeParanoid, on 03/24/2009, -13/+63It's the classic open-and-shut case and nothing less than our very souls depends upon it.
- rrouse, on 03/25/2009, -13/+54Some one should ask Cheney what he got in exchange for his soul.
- Barackalypse, on 03/25/2009, -3/+29Time is the enemy of these things. The longer you wait the more evidence is lost, the more people forget events that took place , and the more people connected to it die.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -1/+26How does one equate over a million dead Iraqi's as "success"? Insanity. A dead Saddam, OK, not bad...
Say how did those Anthrax investigations go? You remember those ones that came FROM the US? - treehugger87, on 03/25/2009, -1/+24I don't buy the "looking forward" argument that Obama makes. Looking back at crimes committed by the previous President is looking forward, lest the current and future Presidents think they can get away with the same.
- anexanhume, on 03/25/2009, -0/+23He got his former buddies at Halliburton some nice contracts.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -3/+26cheney is a total waste of life.
- LostinJersey, on 03/25/2009, -3/+25the right time was a few years ago.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -6/+26well he did shoot someone in the face....had that been me or you we would have been locked up.
- orsinoduke, on 03/25/2009, -1/+19Give Cheney a rifle. Send him to Iraq
- Ljay90, on 03/25/2009, -4/+21"I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. … It’s no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me — unless you don’t count American soldiers as Americans."
-Matthew Alexander, former Special Operations interrogator who worked in Iraq - CannedMango, on 03/25/2009, -1/+17If you want an excellent look at how the CIA has been complicit in torture over the course of Bush administration, read the book "Ghost Plane" by Stephen Grey. It deals with the CIA's secret rendition program during the war on terror. The more you read it the angrier you'll get that such horrific acts were carried out in the name of the "safety" of Americans. There's no question that many key figures in the Bush Administration are guilty of committing war crimes.
- kp998, on 03/25/2009, -1/+17The list of killings and blood on his hands is what goes on and on.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+16Yeah, cuz a marginal, unprosecutable perjury charge is the exact same thing as ordering the torture and murder of hundreds of innocent people.
I think your moral compass is due for a tune-up. - marillion, on 03/25/2009, -0/+14What soul?
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -4/+17Bush was too much of an idiot to really be in charge of all the ***** they pulled. I really believe that Cheney was the evil mind behind it all. There's just something very wrong about the guy. He's not wired up right at all. You would think that to be that evil would wear a person out. Not so with him. It's just the way he is. He's not a patriot, he's an evil *****. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he tortures cats and dogs. Anyway, he seriously needs to be held accountable for what he's done. I hope he gets a healthy dose of justice soon. What does kind of surprise me is that he won't shut the ***** up. He's on TV trying to rewrite history every week. You would think that after what he got away with that he would be quiet and count his lucky stars.
- drinking12many, on 03/25/2009, -0/+12Because they would all be implicated too they knew what they were doing and sanctioned it the republicans are daring them to let ALL the dirty laundry come out.
- kasjogren, on 03/25/2009, -1/+13there is no statute of limitations on war crimes
- MoClippa, on 03/25/2009, -3/+15I think the situation may be that Obama doesn't want to set precedent that US President's can get tried for war crimes. While Bush and Cheney had their arms deep in what was going on, pretty much every President since WWII can be tried for war crimes successfully if Obama sets precedent by allowing the two worst offenders to be. That would mean that every future President including Obama himself can possibly be exposed to similar trials depending on the actions they take and condone. To play devils advocate, the argument would probably be that if that sort of precedent was set, it would mean that future President's would constantly have to limit their possibilities in terms of decisions out of fear of breaking some convention leaving the American people in harms way and not allowing him or her to make what they perceive to be the best decision at the time.
On the other hand, the US is a signatory of several international conventions that the administration is constitutionally obligated to follow as supreme law of the land which it is in gross violation of not following. I say put those bastards on trial, however I see why he is standing in the way. - HeyWakeUp, on 03/25/2009, -1/+12I too spent 14 months in Iraq and absolutely agree with Matt. Our policies and invasion of Iraq has created 10 fold the number of terrorists than there were before. How can anyone say they feel safer after Bush/Cheneys clear abuse of power in taking us there? Fact is, crimes were committed at the expense of the people and should be paid for.
Also Caroline, calling Obama Osama is a huge display of ignorance and bigotry. The great thing about America is that you have the freedom to say what you want, the problem is that you just look like a fool for saying it. - Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -1/+12Actually, by definition it is torture. because we have done worse in history doesn't change that.
Ever see what we did to each other back in the 1700's? Still, shouldn't we be held to higher accounts? Especially after charging the Japanese for doing it to us in WW2? - Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -4/+15You sir, have a disconnect with what terrorism is.... what breeds it, how it can be stopped and how to act in the face of it...
His efforts to bankrupt your country? Who gives him a say in this? Besides, if you are still that angry about the loss of 3K Americans, then surely your even angrier over the 4000+ Americans killed and countless maimed because of Cheney and his kind's lies....
I mean to do otherwise would make you look like a giant hypocrite. - Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -1/+11One can watch for the muggers of today, while holding the muggers of yesterday accountable.
- shylove, on 03/25/2009, -2/+12The thing is there was intelligence leading up to 9/11, it is public knowledge, and unless I am mistaken it was not taken seriously. It was not communicated to all agencies as important to follow up on, to gather together any tips and leads that may be languishing in the various agencies and no one seems to have said ok guys get over your institutional hangups and cooperate with someone at a high level looking into a possible direct threat to our national security..
No they didn't so they don't get do overs and they don't get credit for no next attack, they haven't stopped any serious next attack because no next attack was needed we are unraveling before the worlds very eyes. And by the way we have been subject to almost daily so-called terrorist attack ever since in Afghanistan and Iraq with more casualties than 9/11 itself so what has been accomplished by Cheney who is now out there tooting his own horn and campaigning for torture and the uncivilized gloves off approach to world affairs.??
It looks like he is begging for a fight to prove he is right that we, the President as our elected leader, has a right to do anything whatsoever he wants in the name of national security so it is worth doing so we all know just where our country and it's people stand regarding international law and civilized behavior and our morality then all other countries will knows what is ok for them too. And we will know just how to relate to laws ourselves in our daily conduct. It would be helpful to know whether we should bother obeying any laws, or just some laws some of the time or what? Or are the gloves now off for everyone and it is every country for itself and every man in the country for himself too. Have we returned to the Stone Age of caveman existence? it would be good to know? Also, is it ok to scam ,steal, rip off, lie, mislead, falsifiy, misinform, disinform, etc in our business ventures and daily life too. Is it ok to knowingly carcingenate our world, poison ourselves, design our products to suck the maximum of money from everyone possible and generally make our society ineffective to function just in order to maximize profit? It would be good to know if our economic morals are also back to the caveman era!
It would also be good to notice that we didn't take the intelligence seriously because we were too busy trying to falsify reasons for attacking Iraq and Cheney said many times, "We know they have weapons of mass destruction and we know where they are!" If he is aching for a fight on the issues I think this might be a good one too because we have caused vastly more collateral damage on an entire society of innocent civilians than 9/11 ever did. So I'm afraid all this talk of 9/11 piety is totally ridiculous unless you look at our collateral damage too. I would not want to tell someone who died in 9/11 what we have done to similar innocent civilians in their name!!
As for torture I suppose waterboarding has a history in international law but I think the real issue is the psychological torture our behaviorists have cooked up exemplified by the Abu Graib pictures of sexual domination and humilitation and whatever forms of mutilation may also be involved that all nations have seen on the pages of their newspapers as our standand conduct. And I would like to see someone other than scapegoats taking the credit. It is immoral to put privates and corporals in prison for these mens authorized actions, it seems the gloves are still on for special handling of everyone above sargeant!
If Cheney is in the mood for pompously arguing his cases he should be given a chance to do it.!!! - Beatmiser, on 03/25/2009, -2/+12We aren't but it is my sincere hope that the Hague does.
- InetRoadkill, on 03/25/2009, -0/+9I don't think allowing an investigation to proceed would hurt BO's polling numbers. Quite the opposite. I find the idea that BO is protecting Bush and company from prosecution offensive.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -1/+10Cheney going take the guys out for a little hunting?
The fact that it isn't going to get off the ground, says so very much about the state of the US right now. - oninbonin, on 03/25/2009, -1/+10AND the mother ***** apologized to him haha!
- einrobstein, on 03/25/2009, -2/+10Why do you want to punish thickly populated, run-down, squalid parts of cities that are inhabited by poor people.
- naner, on 03/25/2009, -0/+8About tree fitty...
- Bhima, on 03/25/2009, -1/+9It would really fill my heart with joy... to see Bush & Cheney at the Hague... and to hear the right wingers hyperbolic reaction to it.
- foofightrs777, on 03/25/2009, -0/+7Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul - moose26, on 03/25/2009, -0/+7He got to be the one who really ran our country for 8 years. Bush is just a puppet idiot for the most part.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+8I'm no fan of FDR or his japanese internment camps, but I'm not sure this is true.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -0/+7FDR didn't do anything to anyone after the war. He was dead.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+8Sorry, your third-grade writing level isn't really up to conveying complex ideas -- not that you have any.
Best you stick to "***** liberal *****". We wouldn't want to overtax that little talibrain of yours. - treehugger87, on 03/25/2009, -2/+8That's why we all need to keep the pressure on. I like Obama, but I agree with you that his adminstration (no administration for that matter) is going to do something this bold without a massive outcry from we the people.
- jsffive, on 03/25/2009, -0/+6"Legacy of Ashes" is also a good book. It underpins the fact that the CIA's reputation is based mostly upon perception, and hasn't really EVER fulfilled the promise of it's charter.
Any investigation of the CIA would have to entail bringing their methods to light, and neither the Congress nor the President are willing to do that. For most of it's existence, the CIA has been asked, time and time again, to break the law, and go outside of their stated mission. - Barackalypse, on 03/25/2009, -7/+13That's right, you can't get any shorter than "over before it even started". Face it, Obama isn't going to step out of the way, the Government looks out for its own.
- 4degrees, on 03/25/2009, -0/+6he got to shoot a guy...
- ciaran036, on 03/25/2009, -1/+7Get it done now!
- xceptionaly, on 03/25/2009, -11/+16It would be the shortest in history because it would be killed before it even got off the ground.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+6His hat.
- booperboy, on 03/25/2009, -2/+7as I see it, he didn't start the war, so it won't be his defeat, but ours.
- kingofinternet, on 03/25/2009, -14/+19911 was an inside job, man. Bruce Lee ain't dead you know. They got him frozen in carbonite down under Chatsworth. They're gonna melt him down as soon as the economy gets better. Think about it.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+6Too bad, you should have voted for Kuchinich.
- inactive, on 03/25/2009, -1/+6Where were all these lefty eggheads when FDR carpet-bombed Europe, when Truman nuked Japan, when LBJ wasted 58,000 American lives in Vietnam, when Clinton conducted a war entirely from the air, killing the guilty and innocent alike?
- Waiting2awake, on 03/25/2009, -1/+6Because you torturing them is what is recruiting them. America in the Middle East, and absolute support for Israel regardless of what they do - recruits them. Heavy Handed approaches, and funding one side of conflicts - recruits them...
Cause - Effect. If you really want to end terrorism, why not cut off what recruits them? - akhomestead, on 03/25/2009, -0/+5It won't happen because the MSM won't let it happen.
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