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CBS News Commentary Blames School Shootings On Evolution and Abortion

thinkprogress.org — Last night, the CBS Evening News turned their broadcast over to a man named Brian Rohrbough, who lost his son during the Columbine massacre. Mr. Rohrbough proceeded to blame recent school shootings on: 1) the teaching of evolution, and 2) abortion.

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  • WickedDrag0oN, on 10/12/2007, -91/+65Ahh yes another person turned into a religious finatic after the death of their son... because he cant just be dead he has to go somewhere better.... SORRY HES MATTER FLOATING IN SPACE NOW BUDDY...
    • NICU, on 10/12/2007, -49/+44Wow way too harsh man. He's got the freedom of speech and the freedom to believe in any religion he wants. He lost a kid at least let him have that.
    • qwickone, on 10/12/2007, -19/+158Wow. Seriously? This guy is obviously just using this tragedy to promote his own agenda. I'm so disgusted by him.
    • gronne, on 10/12/2007, -8/+137If you saw the piece last night it was pretty disgusting and insensitive. He basically said that the kids in the school deserved to die because this country isn't a Christian theocracy.
    • gronne, on 10/12/2007, -9/+63CBS NEWS CONTACT INFO:

      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/08/01/eveningnews/main15218.shtml
    • dshPls, on 10/12/2007, -20/+75Look to the good christians republicans like Foley for some real values! Kids won't be speaking up in class anymore with more people like him around.
    • Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -41/+23@gwickone

      As opposed to everybody else who uses various tragedies to push their agendas.

      Using tragedy to push an agenda is done nearly every day, therefore, I have to ask, Is it the use of tragedy to push agendas that you are disgusted by, or that he is pushing a christian ideology?
    • aywwts4, on 10/12/2007, -10/+64NICU: Yeah, people have the right to believe in any religion they want...

      ...But if I start telling people the sky is blue because of the valient smurfs that encapsulate our planet and protect us from the thousand year space dragon war, I expect to be ridiculed mercilessly.

      Thats not a religion, thats moronic. Same with disagreeing with all of scientific theory and the scientific process as a whole.
    • dkarlson, on 10/12/2007, -46/+17@herolint

      Based on the rampant anti-Christianity on digg, a penny says it is the latter.
    • Fracture98, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22@dshPls
      They won't be able to. Their mouths will be full.
    • amoirae, on 10/12/2007, -16/+2Almost said a variant of the same thing.
    • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -9/+45@Herolint

      What sort of retarded question is that. You're implying that because "everyone" uses tradgedy to push their agendas the guy can't possibly be disgusted by it? What sort of stupid logic is that?

      An to your supporter, I'm not being anti-Christian I'm being pro-SENSE!
    • mlwarrior, on 10/12/2007, -18/+25Good thing his son died breaking his genetic lineage
    • hosiah, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32Well, I've lost a son (that's a matter of fact comment. happened long ago. no need to console or comment.) and I'm even disgusted. On the other hand, I've known people who can snap at tragedies too big for them to handle. This guy doesn't sound like he's past the "anger" stage of grief.

      When you've survived the death of your child, nothing else can hurt you again quite so deeply. It's that much of an experience, and you can't rush it. Everybody heals at their own pace.
    • Frankie4Fingers, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19@dkarlson

      Rampant anti-Christianity? Come on. The point of most people's comments here is that the parent is sad for blaming the world and lack of Christianity on what happens when kids go bad. No matter what religion people are, there will be some kids/adults that do bad things. It just seems that this trend has started because instead of committing suicide like kids did when we were kids, they now go out in a blaze of glory.

      If you were depressed and feeling like everyone was out to get you, would you A) quietly kill yourself or B) have a blast killing others that might have wronged you and then kill yourself and make yourself into a martyr?

      What kids need is not necessarily religion, they just need a family with some family values. Whether that is religion or not, it still needs to be there for a successful childhood.
    • dvpdziyn, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5I am constantly surprised by two types of people:
      1) Those who blindly follow the hypocrite religious leaders who bless with one hand and abuse with the other.
      2) Those who blindly follow the pluralist philosophy and, on the one hand, know that truth is relative, and on the other hand still adhere to some uncredited yet mutually agreed-upon standard of what is right and wrong.

      We seem to have an abundance of both people here.
    • macfanboi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Two trains of thought 1) His son did not survive because he was not the fittest or 2) His son did not survive because he did not have faith in "God" or "God" felt it was his time.

      Either way, regardless of what is being taught in school, if his son had faith in "God" then "God" has led him to his propper place.
    • dkarlson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@FrankieFingers

      I hear what you're saying. I just happened to catch that thing on CBS last night, and I was surprised that they let him say what he did. The thing I took away from it wasn't that things are this way due to a lack of Christianity, but that the lack of teaching right vs. wrong and the elimination of moral absolutes led to this behavior.

      I personally think that my original comment still stands, dugg down or not. There is a very high percentage of anti-Christian comments vs. positive Christian comments. For that matter, there's also a high-percentage of anti-Muslim comments vs. pro-Muslim comments. Just something I noticed is all.
    • IronDioPriest, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1quickone, are you equally disgusted by Cindy Sheehan? If not, you are a hypocrite. If so, you get points for consistency.
    • dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So the US is committing suicide AND going psychotic? See if I care.
    • rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@WickedDrag0oN dude, totally un-called for. If you haven't read our Constitution yet, it says that we have the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Therefore, anyone can practice the religion they want, and you don't get a say about it. (as long as that practice doesn't violate the constitution itself)

      I get tired of people not understanding that because people have religious viewpoints, that they are wackjobs or lunatics or fanatical. Within our constitution it clearly wants to make the point that people can practice religion freely, and there is to be no state sponsored religion. This simply means the state cannot setup a religion and make its people follow it. This is a radical viewpoint considering many other nations including Iran, Palestine, China, Cuba and others who actively seek out alternate religions and kill people over them.

      We have no separation of church and state, it was only a side-bar from the Constitution, but not actually law or in the document itself. The Judicial system made a bad choice a long time ago with the whole "separation" statement, because it could have been handled a lot better than today. Today our schools and government are so freaked out about have religion around that they ban it. That is not the intention of the founding fathers. They just wanted to make sure as a government we didn't force anyone into any religion.

      Don't get me started on atheists, since they claim not to follow any religion, then the very mention of anything like the pledge of allegiance is hate speech to them.

      I believe we can all get together and figure this stuff out. Its our government getting so big which is actually the problem. It was never supposed to be like this.
    • canadian0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The gentleman on the video mutilated the Theory of Evolution by implying that the strong kill the weak. Wouldn't it be great if the US education system taught the theory properly instead of this "intelligent design as a scientific theory" *****? Many people just don't seem to understand the importance of a scientific theory. Gravity is a theory.
  • maklershed, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30I blame it on the omnipresent media coverage of a shooting event. After hearing of the shooting in Denver last week I predicted to friend's and family that there'd be a rash of school shootings this week. Sure, maybe they'd happen anyway, but I think people are more motivated to go through with their murderous plans because they know they'll get a bit of notoriety.
    • geardosdotnet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Yup, but obviously the media is not going to blame themselves.

      When it comes to sensationalizing incidents such as this, or not reporting them to prevent copycat attacks, the media will always choose the former. Ratings are more important to them than preventing copycat attacks,
    • greenvortex, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Sure, the Amish school shooting got excessive media coverage: the Republicans needed to get The Pedophile Congressman off the top of the news headlines. By 9AM, the Foley story had been pushed down to non-photo status on most major news sites.
    • Guspaz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I'm not sure why the shooting in Denver would precipitate more violence when it wasn't the first in the recent string of shootings.

      Interestingly, the first of the recent string of shootings, and the largest in scale, was in Montreal, Canada. In Canada, there isn't a large public debate on evolution and abortion. The government(s) require evolution be taught in schools, and there is very little debate about it. Abortion has been legal for quite some time, and there also isn't much of a debate about it. They're just not polarizing issues in Canada, which is in general a much more liberal state than the US.

      And so, the idea of somebody blaming the shooting on evolution and abortion is particularly absurd to us in Montreal.
  • DavidYeah, on 10/12/2007, -7/+46These are people who believe that morality is impossible unless you're thumping your Christian bible on a regular basis. They blame evolution because they perceive it as negating the design of their creator and doubt in his very existance, thus resulting in immoral behavior, since it leads to the loss of the "Fear of God (c)."

    Even I can't explain why abortion is a part of his argument.. someone else can take a crack at that if they want. I'd assume its basically the same as the argument against evolution... though the research done by the author of Freakonomics that made big news a while ago shows that abortions could result in less crime... but reality has no bearing on what Chrstians like to believe.
    • sbassin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29You know the saying that when you're a hammer, everything's a nail? Well, I guess when you're one of these people everything's to do with Christianity. Confusing morality with religion contributes to a pretty divisive world view, in my opinion. It is quite possible to be a moral person without being a Christian (or Jewish, or Islamic for that matter) person.
    • DaveV, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32He said it in his diatribe:

      "Abortion has diminished the value of children"

      There is some interesting logic for you.
    • Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17@DavidYeah

      Your post brings to mind a question I have always had for christians, why do you (christians) believe that the theory of evolution negates the existance of God? No christian religion (or any other religion for that matter) that I know of claims to know exactly how God organized or created everything, so how do you know evolution didn't play some part it in all?

      I honestly don't understand why evolution is such a big bone of contention.
    • PhantomRogue, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8In Christian understanding, the world was created in 7 days. God said Light, and there was Light. God Created Adam, then Created Eve from Adams Rib. There is no Evolution. God Created everything. Everythign has a reason, and everything is a reaction/event driven by God. (Hence, the belief in Christianity that there is a reason God makes you suffer, or have hardship).

      If he didnt, Either he or the world is flawed, therefore, their belief system is flawed.

      Its not called Creationism for nothing.
    • jayfish, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14@Herolint

      The theory of evolution negates the existence of God because the Bible is taken, by evangelical Christians, as the direct word of God. The word of God says that all was created in seven days. So if evolution is correct then God cannot exist.

      Jay

    • walls1500, on 10/12/2007, -15/+11I guess I'm a "right wing Christian nut", so I'll try to answer that one. I don't necessarily believe that evolution negates Christian theology. I understand how some can believe that "God put the wheels of evolution in motion." However, I've done a fair bit of reading on evolution from a variety of sources, and I just don't put as much faith in "scientists" as I do in "science". There are just as many "science nuts" as there are "religious nuts" who are pushing their own agendas, funding sources, etc. using evolution as their vehicle.

      It could just be my inability to grasp the concept of evolution in general, but if the "missing link" of "ape" to "human" has been so difficult to find, it seems like it will be almost impossible to find the millions of other "missing links" (e.g., when did plants and animals split and what made being a plant more "beneficial" than being an animal? what is the "link chain" between whales and olives?),etc. That's why evolution is difficult for me to grasp. If all life arose from a single source, then all life is connected somehow and so far, we can't even "prove" the direct link between the two easiest life forms to connect.

      So, in my opinion, to blindly believe in "scientists" (not science, but the actual people doing the work) is just as foolish as it is to blindly believe in "religion" (whatever your definition of religion happens to be).
    • shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11@walls1500:

      It is your inability to grasp the concept of evolution. Please read www.talkorigins.org for explanations of all of your problems.
    • debiguana, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@Heolint & PhantomRogue Re Creation / Timelines:

      Although the Bible states that there were 7 creative days, it elsewhere states that 1 day is as 1000 years to God. There are also other similar types of expressions (God referring to himself as having hands, etc, while in actuality a spirit creature).

      There are some who teach that the 7 days were literal, whereas it makes a lot more sense (and the fossil evidence supports) that the "days" were referenced such for the benefit of human understanding, and likely took much longer.

      As to the actual processes used by God, we barely understand DNA and the human brain, so how exactly could we understand if He explained such to us?

      A disclaimer here: I am a Christian. However, I am not bashing anyone, just presenting an alternative point of view that (IMHO) makes much more sense.
    • Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@jayfish and phantom rogue

      I think it is funny how Christians, who profess to believe in an almighty, omnipotent creator always place such human inferiority on Him (well, if it isn't this way, then He doesn't exist).

      I am certainly no Hebrew scholar, but the word "yom", which the King James version of the English Bible translates as "day", can mean a 24-hour period, or it can mean a period from sunrise to sunset, or it can also mean an era.

      Also, the Hebrew words for "morning" and "evening" can either be literal, or specify the beginning and end of a period of time. In fact, it is used that way many places throughout the Bible.

      Therefore, it is highly likely that the account of the creation in the Bible is referring to creative periods rather than 24-hour days, and there is no set time. It could have been a week, and thousand years, or longer.

      Whether Christians want to admit it or not, just the possibility of the creative "days" being unspecified periods of time as opposed to 24-hour segments of time, which possibility certainly exists and moreover is highly likely, demands that they rethink their belief on the matter rather than opposing something that, at least to a healthy degree, has scientifically been shown to be fact.

      I honestly don't see conflict in the matter.
    • xenuxenuts, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5fundamentalist Christians believe in the _translation_ of various old writings. They need to keep in mind that the various translations, and even same language copies don't always agree with one another.
    • Yoshi39, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@walls
      At first I was going to respond to your points but then I remembered this guy who does it so much better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg probably the best youtube clip I have ever seen.
    • khafra, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@Herolint:
      It's irrelevant whether a day meant a day or an era--there was no suffering or death before the fall, and humans were clearly ***** sapiens at the time of the fall. ***** Sapiens require evolution, and evolution requires suffering and death. No matter how long the 7 days were, the creation account in Genesis is incompatible with any cosmology involving evolution.
    • jayfish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Herolint


      It’s not really that they are assigning human frailties to a deity. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that not many evangelical Christians have read the Old Testament in the original Hebrew? So a day is a day and a night is a night for them. Remember too, that to evangelicals the Bible is the literal word of God. So for them it’s a logic problem.


      The Bible is the word of God.
      The word of God says that everything was created in seven days.
      If evolution is true then the word of God cannot be true.
      If the word of God is not true, God is not true.


      Keep in mind that 83% of Americans identify themselves as Christians. That’s about 249 million people. Of that 83%, 37% describe themselves as evangelical. That’s a whopping 92 million people. The belief is prevalent.

      Jay
    • NinjaBoy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I hate how people some up all religious followers. I'm a christian. But I also believe in science and evolution. and most Christians don't believe the bible literally. Cause that just be stupid. Its more of a set of guidelines. It was writing metaphorically (because that's someone thing most groups of people can relate to). I normally stay out of these religious flame wars but I just cant stand how people look at one or two religious groups/individuals and just sum everyone else up with them. that's just bad logic.
    • mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Keep in mind that 83% of Americans identify themselves as Christians. That’s about 249 million people. Of that 83%, 37% describe themselves as evangelical. That’s a whopping 92 million people. The belief is prevalent."

      And 70% of people believed that Saddam had a direct link to 9/11 (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm). What's your point exactly?
    • jayfish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@mrgreen4242

      My point is that many, many people share this belief system. What’s your point, exactly?

      Jay
    • mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"My point is that many, many people share this belief system. What’s your point, exactly?"

      That popular opinin does not equal fact, despite what the moral majority would like to believe.
    • walls1500, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@shaggtastic

      I'll give it a read, as I enjoy reading on this topic. However, my point was simple. I don't necessarily believe science reports simply because they were created by "scientists." I've known too many bad "scientists" and read far too many false reports to know better. However, I also don't outright reject all scientific research.

      On a topic this complex and misunderstood, a healthy amount of skepticism (on both sides) is warranted. In my opinion, you need to know and research those doing the research (and those refuting the research) to understand what they are trying to prove and what their underlying motivations might be.
  • schlurp, on 10/12/2007, -7/+85I guess that is why countries in western europe where evolution is taught matter-of-factly and abortion is usually no problem after counseling have crime rates, murder rates, divorce rates, rape rates, STD rates, child molestation rates and school shooting rates that are only a fraction of those in the oh so moral US.
    • jhusband, on 10/12/2007, -51/+14Can you document that? I'd like to read it somewhere.
    • truspector, on 10/12/2007, -14/+45@jhusband
      You're a big boy, do your own research. You don't need to be spoonfed everything.
    • DaveV, on 10/12/2007, -14/+22@truspector:

      I beg to differ with your comment. schlurp made a statement that asserted certain things as facts. jhusband asked him to site the source of those facts.

      Jhusband is challenging schlurp to support his assertions with proof. If schlurp can not provide a source for his assertions, then there is no reason to believe them.

      Jhusband is not asking to be spoonfed, but rather that schlurp prove the veracity of his claims.
    • marby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2This is a very strong point. Do you have a theory as to why these aberrant behaviors are so much more prevalent in the U.S. than in Europe? This fact would seem to defeat the argument that the problem is a lack of strong values in our society.

      Does it have something to do with demographics: the percentage of young people in the U.S. versus European Countries?
    • davidod87, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16DaveV, this isn't ***** Wikipedia. Posters don't have to ***** cite their sources all the damn time. If that was the case, Digg would be pretty lame.
    • schlurp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13lazy bastards, check this for instance:

      http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html#figures

      check out the figures for homicides, STDs, teen pregnancies and abortions

      That paper actually correlates religious belief and all the above, but since the US is by far the most religious western country it's the same thing.
      The "U" ,which in most of the 9 figures has by far the worst stats, stands for "USA"

      The US does actually even worse than the simple correlation of religion with crime and amorality shown by these statistics would imply.
    • bemenaker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I would have to agree w/ schlurp on this. We studied this in college, and the claims he is making are valid.
    • NinjaBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Russia also has the highest suicide rates in the world.
    • randf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2way to clear things up bemenaker--"I studied this in school, so everyone must believe me" I guess we can close this topic now.
    • Daunting, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My rather haphazard conclusion would be (Trying to remember sociology class) that in America we have two varying ideologies competing against each other. One the one hand, a strict sense of tradition permeates most of the country, by our enormous percentages of religious individuals and an exorbitant amount of fundamentals compared to other countries. However, on the other hand, we have the ideologue that we must advance, we must overcome any impediment to our individuality and our progress which brings me to my main point. Our sense of individuality strictly contradicts to our sense of tradition which is already at odds with a changing culture that requires individuals to assimilate with those new cultural norms at an alarming rate and many people lag behind.

      Compound that with poverty, with our already mounting tension that is possibly at it's precipice, compound that with a population of youth that has not assimilate all that well with finding their own worldview separate from traditions social institutions, compound that with that same youth radically shifting from one extreme to another (Proof in point, the recent christian rock movement that melds bad mouthed, extremely pierced individuals that preach a tradition that they ultimately contradicts), and compare that to cultures that have attempted (quite successfully) to assimilate with new information such as evolution, abortion, technology, and a dismantling of isolationist viewpoints. It is reasonable to say that all this dichotomy in America has pressured individuals to extremes.

      Humans always try to become congruent within a group and the ideals that has culminated into ideologues of modern America has insisted that this country should be seen as one entity beyond any other consideration of separatism (which sorta seems to contradict our very foundations but look at press conferences and we will see this in action) which again greatly contradicts the attitudes of pretty much half of America. There has always been a constant divide in America which has made us strong and democracy a probable governmental structure, but there are an endless amount of cases where individuals lag behind, and this cultural lag multiplied by all the things I have mentioned above, has at least incited many of this country's interpersonal problems and cultural issues. How good is it for public cohesion if we hear constantly that we are in a "culture war".

      That is just my incoherent two cents though, don't mind me.
  • jhusband, on 10/12/2007, -44/+10He blamed school shootings on moral a vacuum not evolution and abortion. In an age where there is no God then we each get to decide what is right and what is wrong. We make ourselves the ultimate arbiter of truth. This is what we teach in public school and secular society. If I believe it's true or right than it is. Evolution or Secular Humanism is the religion taught in public school today. That religion says there is no God. Abortion is a symptom of such a religion. Since there is no God to tell me it's wrong to kill a defenseless baby, I am allowed to kill him or her, since I decide what is right and what is wrong. The commentator is saying these school killers believe the same thing. They believe that they decide what is right and what is wrong and not an all powerful God. Thus they can do whatever they want since all they are is dust in the wind after they die.

    I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just say this is what is. Perhaps secular humanism is the best religion for the human race. Who am I to say?
    • matrox212, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38How is that believing in God thing helping quell the violence in Iraq? There's a lot of belivers there!
    • colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33"He blamed school shootings on moral a vacuum not evolution and abortion."

      He specifically mentioned that he believed evolution being taught in the place of creationism caused violence.
    • KeepSwinging, on 10/12/2007, -1/+33You're a ***** idiot. I am 100% atheist and have never thought "is it OK for me to kill a defenseless baby". The point of society is to live together in peace and when you kill, steal, rape, etc. you disturb that peace and go against why we have society. Not believing in God and thinking that you have the right to decide what the world's morels should be are two totally different things.
    • gothsquirrel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19The simple fact is that the shooter in this case was motivated by god and took it out on a group of children in a very religious community should invalidate all comments about shootings like this being caused by our immoral and ungodly society. Only 14% of americans consider themselves athiest and that percentage is much less likely to commit a violent crime.
    • piper999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14What about the Amish guy who raped his own kids and then decided to execute other people's kids - was he living in a 'moral vacuum' as well?

      Or is all this "God made me do it" ***** just an excuse for the pig ignorant savages of the world to kill each other?
    • shaggtastic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Newsflash! There is no God. Never was. Religious beliefs about what is right and wrong are based on culture and society just like secular beliefs about what is right and wrong.
    • dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16"Since there is no God to tell me it's wrong to kill a defenseless baby"

      If you need an imaginary superhero to tell you it's wrong to kill defenseless babies you are what scientists call a "psychopath"
    • IamZed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Whenever I hear someone ponder what stops an atheist from killing, I donate to the local house of faith. I am an atheist, and people that could ponder that scare the ***** out of me. I want them well affraid of God.
    • bemenaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Morals which is a synonym for ethics is a social function. It is a misplaced belief to think you can only be moral if you are religious. They are mutually exclusive. I am an atheist, I believe in morals, I believe in laws. They are imparted by society and your upbringing, nothing more nothing less.

    • mathmanjeffy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1I find the radical viewpoint "there is no God, get over it" to be rather disturbing. People who make such claims are "offended" by christians ascertaining their beliefs on them yet feel no qualms doing likewise to christians.

      There are two points of view for the existence of God: "You cannot prove God exists, therefore God doesn't exist." and "You cannot prove God doesn't exist, therefore God exists."

      Citing scientific fact does not negate that scientific patterns must have an origin and, as I pointed out in earlier comments on other articles and got summarily dugg down for, this origin is something neither religion nor science adequately explains (the _whys_, not the hows). Why can't atheist and christian alike just let each other go about their own business?

      This guy looks like a fool trying to press his beliefs on others; don't make the same mistake by pressing YOUR beliefs on others.
    • atroxodisse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Thinking that you are the arbiter of right and wrong is not taught anywhere. It is something that people learn through their experiences when they don't use logic and reasoning to figure out that there are some really strong morals that exist exclusive of a deity. People who think that there needs to be a god for there to be morals scare me. They are the people who will become evil if somehow they came to know there was no god. There is the theory of the social contract, which I think should be taught in middle school everywhere. The social contract is the understanding that we all live together in a society and we need to get along.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
      Logic dictates that if there is no universal right and wrong then right and wrong can not exist. That is something that all thinking people agree upon. Moral relativism doesn't work.
    • DaveV, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4First, lets start off with the definition of religion:
      1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
      2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects

      "In an age where there is no God then we each get to decide what is right and what is wrong. We make ourselves the ultimate arbiter of truth."
      We all get to do decide what is right and wrong anyway. That is what free will is all about. It is society who decides what is acceptable and unacceptable, regardless of right or wrong. As for "the ultimate arbiter of truth", religion, especially Christianity has been famous for suppressing the truth. From whether the Earth is the center of the solar system and universe, to blood transfusion, to surgery, to what foods should be eaten, all religions have suppressed the truth.

      "Evolution or Secular Humanism is the religion taught in public school today."
      While I can not speak to Secular Humanism, I can say that Evolution is not a religion.

      "That religion says there is no God."
      Neither Evolution nor Secular Humanism say "There is no God". You need to get your facts straight. Evolution says the bible is incorrect about how life developed. Cosmology says the bible is incorrect about how the Universe came to be. Neither say there is not God. They just say the bible is wrong. They say you are wrong about what God has done, if God exists. Secular humanism is a philosophic position and not a statement about belief or non-belief in God. Secular Humanism says nothing about the existence of God other than there is no proof a God exists.

      "Since there is no God to tell me it's wrong to kill a defenseless baby, I am allowed to kill him or her, since I decide what is right and what is wrong."
      You need a God to tell you that? More important, when does a clump of cells become a baby? The bible claims that the soul is in the blood. Is a feotus without blood, and thus without a soul, a baby or just a clump of cells?

      Speaking of right or wrong, if one does not believe in your God why should one have to live by your God's laws? If two men were to believe in a God that believed homosexuality is OK, should they be allowed to marry if their religion says it is ok and has a ceremony for it? If religion believes in temple prostitues, should they not be allowed to have them? What makes it right for you to impose your religion on others?
    • digitizit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I couldn't agree with you more. Without a moral standard, who is to say what is right and what is wrong. Sure, some things would seem like a given, like murder. But is it? If it was a given, then why would we have such fierce debates over such things as capital punishment and abortion?
      I believe that this whole granola crunching "what's right for you is right for you" mentality is fatally flawed. Too many times we paint away black and white morality with shades of gray and try to substitute our morality with law. Law can not be used as a substitute for morality. If you could get away with stealing a million dollars and there was absolutely NO chance you would ever get caught or punished, would you do it?
    • bleonard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I understand your point jhusband; lacking a fear in God or any belief in a supreme being leads a person to believe he or she is the decision maker. Sadly you are correct about this for some people; but not all. You and I know its wrong to kill someone. Other people certainly know this too. I'm sure a lot of us posting on digg will die of natural causes before we murder someone. And I'm also sure that not everyone in here believes in or has a fear of God (proof of this is in the posts). I think that a proper education and upbringing is a way of dissuading people from killing one another. How you define proper is up to the family unit raising the child. Religion is certainly one way, but there are others. Every murderer is not a disbeliever of God and everyone whom dies w/out killing is not a God fearing soul.
      If you claim that abortion is a symptom of this "evolution or secular humanism religion" then what prevents you from also including every technological invention based on scientific discovery that had nothing to do with a God? Nothing, thats what. You can't have your pro-life stance and microprocessor (discovered by "secular humanism") too.

      I disagree with your label of "secular humanism" as being a religion. Our public school systems lack religious teachings because they receive government funding and the United States Constitution states that religion and government separate. If this is to change; if we are to bring God into public schools then we embark on a very straightforward path. The United States Constitution and thus the United States of America ceases to exist and a new country, one that will be founded on a change of ideas as opposed to escape from oppressing rulers and a revolutionary war, shall begin.

      If it is not in the constitution then you don't do it. That is the law of the land. It is written on paper with ink by humans. The paper can be carbon dated and all events surrounding it have unequivocally occurred. If something occurs that the Constitution covers then humans can look at the ink and in unison proclaim whatever that something was agreed or disagreed with the law. If there is ever a situation that is not so cut and dry or B&W we are so lucky that our four-fathers put in place a judicial branch of government to handle just those cases. The Constitution is not a Deity where multiple groups of humans can gather separately and proclaim beliefs or interpretations which differ among each other. There is no single God which all humans can look at and regard as a be-all-end-all. All humans interpret a deity differently and because of that their actions will be different while all the while they claim it is the name of God; which it very well may be, just not your God.
  • drum_bum, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24I'm supprised that he didn't blame everything on video games.
    • StarManta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's a bit hard to blame an Amish school shooting on videogames... they don't play videogames in Amish country. But, they do teach evolution and perform abortions regularly.

      Wait, what?
    • bemenaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Jack called him and asked him not too. JT is holding his press conference tomorrow. :)

      (it's called sarcasm, don't like it jack? sue me)
  • Haecus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34One of my schools taught God and Religion as the main agenda.

    When we attended the school science class twice a week, the science teacher taught us Evolution.

    There was never any complaint from anybody.
    All the parents were quite happy with the arrangement.

    None of the students considered it to be a problem.
    And neither did I.

    The science teacher told the class: "God wants you to use the brains He gave you".


    • TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11That's got to be one of the smartest teachers I've ever heard about! At last someone with real brains.

      Here's an idea that will make things equal for all. Have MANDITORY Ethnic Tolerance classes where the children learn about different cultures and RELIGIONS from around the world and let the science classes teach Evolution and the Big Bang. Allow the CHILDREN to make up their own minds which they want to believe. They are a lot smarter than you might think. It is unwise to underestimate their intellegence, in fact it downright negligent of any adult to underestimate how smart kids are these days. When I see people say things like "someone please think about the children" I often wonder if we should be protecting the children from the stupidity of adults. Just look to Capital Hill for example of what I mean.

      And these Jesus camps I saw on the show Countdown on MSNBC disturb me to the core.

      BTW, I'm a father of three so I do know what I'm talking about.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2---
  • Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Richard Dawkins' new book, the God Delusion makes for good reading about now. Just don't follow it to the letter. Commit to atheism or gnosticism, don't be bound down by ancient (or modern) books.
    • dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8A bit off topic, but Anything By Dawkins is a great read.
  • flippinjeremy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3who cares. he's obviously wrong. but it's just his opinion, boring story here...
  • kelopohii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15wow...i don't know what would be worse...blaming these school shootings on evolution/abortion or video games...both arguments sound ridiculous.
    • TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Don't worry, give Mr. Thompson time he'll jump on this faster than a sailor on a $10 whore after being six months at sea. :-)
  • nukethewhales, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Interestingly enough, CBS News wouldn't let Bill Maher do a segment on religion.
    • guine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I guess this just goes to show the liberal media that we have everywhere.
  • musntSurfatWork, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I blame it on 24/7 sensastionalist and apathetic CNN broadcasting its patriotic words to justify sensless killings, but who am I to know for sure.
  • pardonmedoug, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24The world would be a better place if these school shooters had been aborted.

    But I'm glad they've at least taken themselves out of the gene pool.
    • flippinjeremy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5unfortunately they've taken others "out of the gene pool" too...
    • pardonmedoug, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yes, and that's a tragedy. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise.
  • crom99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26Apparently his son isn't the only thing he lost.
  • oilcan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13wait...wasn't it violent video games last week?

    and heavy metal the week before that?
    • Azuroth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8and if you go back a little farther...

      that satanic Dungeons and Dragons...

      that rock and roll music...

      if we could dig back far enough, it'd probably be those teenagers hanging out with that Neanderthal kid from down the caves.....
    • Cannfodd3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hey, don't forget about comic books and rock 'n' roll...
    • SageofLightning, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't forget those new fangled 'movies', or that ultimate tool of satan the printing press.
  • SpikeLee, on 10/12/2007, -17/+2Like Jhusband said, he blamed it on the absence of God. He did not blame it on abortion.
  • Swift2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13The CBS News has given time to Limbaugh, tons of right-wingers, and lots of people who you could call center-right. One "liberal," Gene Robinson, and not talking about any big liberal cause. In fact, CBS News have gone belly-up for the GOP, and Les Moonves has engineered it all. Katie Couric is actually a good reporter, but Moonves' show stinks real bad.
    • politech, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Think Progress agrees with you...
      FTA: "But CBS does not have to broadcast his extreme views to millions of people."

      Yep as good progressives they also agree that he should be prevented from saying such things, (even in private).

      Maybe some Jail time for him if he continues to have these types of opinions, and hopefully execution if he ever again attempts to spread this crazed conservative Cristian philosophy to an audience!

      /sarc
  • marby, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5His basic point seems to me to be that we need to teach our kids values. What values we teach them are up to us as parents. He has a right to his beliefs and to express them.
    • geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13His problem is he associates morals with a belief in god(or his version of god at least). Otherwise, yes, having morals and values is a good thing.
    • dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Agreed. Religion might also have a lot of good teachings and aspects but Religion certainly doesn't have a exclusive Deal with Good and Evil or what is right or wrong. In fact more people have been killed in the name of religion then anything else in the history of man. So please, you can teach your kids about morals and to value other people without passing it off as the divine plan of all knowing, all seeing super being.
  • jasper976, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6note to Mr. Rohrbough, this shooting occurred @ an AMISH school.
    • pmolaughlin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What does that have to do with what Rohrbough said? Was the killer Amish? Based on the transcript, he makes a generalization about school shootings not about this specific incident.
  • zagom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17This is particularly frustrating to me. I was a student at columbine and Brian's son Dan was one of my best friends when I was small. I had a small falling out with him once we headed to high school, but Dan was one of the most free spirited kids I ever knew. He loved electronics, and I doubt he would today agree to comments made by his father.

    It appears to me that Brian Rohrbough has not in fact found the answer to why his son died, and depends his idea of the moral vacuum in today's society as a crutch in the grief process.

    Its really quite unfortunate.
  • greymaxcat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3I blame microscopic aliens living in the brains of humans. They are called Midi-calories... they give you the "Force"... You get them from eating fast food... too many midi-calories and you get fat and go insane. its all McDonald's fault... ***** that Clown!
  • crombenevolant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Come on guys, this has nothing to do with morality, evolution, abortion, etc. This was about someone who had serious problems. There has to be something really wrong with you to go and shoot a bunch of children. Whatever he said is the reason is just a convenient excuse.

    Real problem is that this guy was broken inside. No matter how passionate you are about an issue you don't kill innocent children. No the real problem here is a desperate twisted person who wanted a lot of attention, and got it....
  • dvfreelancer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Ironically there's a book called Freakonomics that suggests the rise in crime rates can be traced to a lowering of the number of abortions performed. That the crime rate and number of unwanted children are statistically relevant to each other. It sounds crazy until you look at the numbers. There really does seem to be correlation. That's Chapter 4.

    In Chapter 3 he covers the surprisingly low wages and poor working conditions of crack dealers and that most of them would be better off working day jobs.

    It's funny that evangelicals blame the behavior of the broader segment of society for supposedly devinely tolerated "punishment" coming down. They never look at THEIR OWN behavior, it's always something society is doing. Nevermind you're rich, fat, lazy and dogmatic. That you spend more time on political issues in place of good works, or that you're hypocrites who support evil people to advance your political agenda. Christianity in the US has lost its way and turned into a repressive political movement. But of course none of those things could be the reason, it has to be teaching evolution.

    Maybe you might want to consider getting the giant Redwood out of your own eye before you start pointing at the specks the rest of society has to deal with.
    • mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem is twofold, as in there is a single cause which can be solved two ways. One, abort all unwanted fetus', or fetus' that are going to be born into a family that cannot adequately support them. Or, provide universal healthcare and equal access to education for all.

      Either one will do it, the former just happens to be much cheaper than the latter. If abortion offends religious nutjobs so much, they should feel free to donate some extra tax dollars to the system and support politicians fighting for free, universal healthcare. Of course that might get in the way of building multimillion dollar churches and buying TV ads telling everyone else what to do, but hey, pick your poison my friends.
  • CapeKid, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18He says:
    "God has been expelled from our school and from our government"
    The Constitution says:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    Maybe the problem is not a lack of teaching of God in our schools, but a lack of the teaching of the Consititution. People are more aware of God now than ever, but the Constitution seems all but forgotten.
  • Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8How is it that Bill Maher is not allowed to speak of religion, but this guy can on CBS's 'Free Speech' segment?
  • dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I wonder if abstract ideas like abortion or evolution are what kids are thinking about when the shoot each other. Personally I'd imagine it's basic instincts and feelings like "rage", and maybe just general "crazy". Honestly, does he think those kids wouldn't have turn psychotic had they never heard of the Scientific explanation for life on our planet. Give me a break.
    • Nothlit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not to mention, the shooter in Colorado and the shooter at the Amish school in Pennsylvania were both older men, not students.
  • growler1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3While I am sad for Mr. Rohrbough's loss, and respect his right to talk about what he attributes it to, I have disagree with him about evolution and abortion.

    I think Mr. Rohrbough has probably been influenced by people like Pat Roberts who believe that bad things happening is God's way of punishing the world, or letting bad things happen because He is displeased because of Gay people, abortion, etc.

    While I do not believe Mr. Rohrbough to be stupid, I do think he's ignorant about several key facts about evolution (it has never been "survival of the fittest" or "survival of the strong over the weak" --anyone who believes that should actually read Darwin and then closely look at the world around them, at their own bodies.). And the debate about abortion, at least in my mind, has never been about whether it's okay to kill babies. That's a framejob perpetuated by the people who rage against the idea of personal choice and free will. Opponents of abortion believe that the government should keep women from terminating unwanted pregnancies. Proponents have alway maintained that it is not the government's place to dictate what you do with your body, or your life.

    Anyway, I think Mr. Rohrbough has been influenced by people who have stepped in to hand him an ideology that explains why bad things happen (because God is mad). It was easier to face than the alternative --bad things happen to good people all the time, because that is the way of the world, and life has what meaning we ascribe to it.

    It's hard to blame him for embracing an idea that gives him a sense of closure about his son.
  • davidod87, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Lost a son or not, this guy is a conservative fundamentalist *****. If the town he's in has any mentality like this, I can totally get why the two shooters in that town did what they did.
  • teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Sounds like he is reading off a script to me..

    Either way he is wrong, it isnt about god or abortion. Its about parenting or lack thereof. When will these adults see this? The problem stares them in the mirror everyday and they never seem to get it, they are stuck in a time whos rules no longer apply and WE are paying for it.
  • redrighthand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I understand this mans loss but he goes beyond expressing his distress to a political platform that will only anger and divide rather than finding a sensible solution to the problem.
  • Nis81, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting. I would blame school shootings on those who actually did the shooting. But that's just a crazy idea. Who in their right mind would ever place blame where blame is due when the opportunity could be used to attack things you don't agree with?
  • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, I could've sworn the last major Amish shooting in the news had nothing to do with abortion, evolution, or public school education. I believe the shooter had bottled up a previous molestation and lashed out at some Amish girls obviously in a school because it was .... school time. If you go back through every school shooting you see one common theme. They're all disturbed individuals that needed help with radically different histories who had seen or heard of a school shooting on mass media and somewhere along the liked the idea and thought that they should do the same. If anything, blame our society for not teaching people to be more open minded and to listening to people no matter what there problems or beliefs are and helping them to cope with them.
  • pmolaughlin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Nowhere in the transcript does Rohrbough blame school shootings on evolution or abortion (as the digg headline said) nor does he blame them on the teaching of evolution or abortion (as the blog said).

    He simply states that school shootings are happening because of a lack of the teaching of right and wrong.

    It's amazing how quick people bash someone who expresses an opinion which doesn't line up with their own.
  • bigturns, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5CBS shills for Evangelical Conservative Republicans: propaganda to follow. First Dan Rather next the freedom of the press - stepping down, CBS style.
  • j37hr0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The problem our society is facing is, as the "Right Wing Extremists" point out the disintegration of family. And they blame this on everything from rock music, to nipples on TV, to video games, to evolution and abortion. These are not to blame. Economics are to blame. When both parents have to work, sometimes two jobs to provide for their family who is left to do the parenting? And that is the families that have both parents in the same home. Fair living wages paid by employers instead of outsourcing everything to the lowest cost provider would do more to help the families of this country than banning abortions, guns, or video games.
  • varmit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Wow, how did it get this title.
  • sleze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Our school taught religion. We had a priest taken away for "alcohol and depression" after he molested a student (although I am saying this tongue-and-cheek, it is absolutely factual).

    So I guess religion doesn't solve ALL of life's problems (but there weren't any mass murders).
    • Haecus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's up to people to solve the problems.

      Remember that every problem has a solution.


  • growler1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ walls1500

    I respect what you say, and applaud your even tone, but I think that inherent in your questions are certain fallacies that you'd have to correct before you truly sought answers to them. My guess is that you're not investigating thorough or proper sources, and even so, the science-ese might be insurmountable. But I encourage you to continue to learn about evolution.

    As far as your doubts, let me say this: I don't pretend to be an expert on evolution, but I do acknowledge that science is an empirical way of understanding the world. It's the best thing we've got going for explaining natural phenomena, because science, by its nature, only depends upon observable phenomena. Along those lines, since we share 90+ percent of our dna (a measurable thing) with chimps, it's a reasonable hypothesis that there is a common ancestor eons ago. It's not locked down and for certain, but all evidence overwhelmingly points thus.

    Religion, and faith, by their very definition, are believing in something when there is *no* observable phenomena. E. g. Christ was the son of God. That requires a faith without proof. --As a matter of fact, proof would make the whole thing pointless, because there would be no need for faith or free will.

    Now, evolution is most certainly a *theory.* But it's the best thing we've got going on right now, based upon measured, observable events.

    Gravity, for instance, is another theory. You can drop a baseball from where you're sitting right now a thousand times, and I'm going to wager that each and every time it's going to hit the floor. Because it's a theory based upon observable stuff, it *might* fly up and hit the ceiling one time...but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Good luck and sorry for the length of this.
  • DavidYeah, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4digg down please.
  • onlinebrad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Grief is one thing, but that guy is a lunatic.
    • mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1There is a little sense on whats he saying really.
  • hobg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Hey everyone! This must be the liberal mainstream media that conservatives keep talking about!
    • ZWash300, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Seriously. If someone with a radical LEFT wing agenda wanted to get on the air, I'm sure there would be a huge fuss about it. Probably wouldn't even make it on the air at all.

      I'm not condoning radical agendas of any kind, because they're all way out there. But the fact that conservative opinions are held higher than liberal ones by the media is just not fair.
  • dkarlson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Is intelligence and a belief in God mutually exclusive?
  • newsfreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just more right wing blabber
  • poutch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Few weeks ago in Montreal a shooter in a school killed a girl. The next day, a columnist from an english Canadian newspaper blamed the french language!
    • Haecus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Shooting children in school appears to be a special kind of disease.

      It's happened in four different countries, including Russia and Scotland.
      There may be other countries that I don't know about.

      It's not just America and Canada.

      Some university research really does need to be done into this strange disease.

  • Venice310, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The story here is that CBS is trying to make the news and not report it. This guy has his opinion and although I don't agree with him he has the right to say it. What CBS has shown is its blatant interest in ratings by broadcasting it - nothing more nor less.

    His argument regarding abortion & school curriculum has nothing to do with this current tragedy. CBS certainly saw that, but in the quest for news about what they purport as news (this is not editorial btw) they have shown poor judgment and possibly a lack of professional journalistic ethics.

    I am sorry to have contributed to this CBS news show. Shame on CBS, shame on me.
  • kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3 Yeah because religious based governments always work. Look at the Mid. east and India. I know I would want to live there.
  • robertc1964, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That was a MASTERFUL speech. It hit just about every major right-wing talking point, and was delivered by a man who is a poster child for the "morally unassailable": a grieving father. My hat is off to whoever wrote that speech for him. It completely ignores the facts, while shoveling out fear-and-smear propaganda with both hands. Brilliant.
  • Vaslo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1If this was Cindy Sheehan, you libs would be sucking each other dicks to talk about how great she is and how great it is that she got on there. She had a great loss too, yet I (as well as millions of others) don't give a ***** what she thinks because there are plenty of other soldiers there who DON'T agree with her. If she can speak than so can he. You don't have to listen.

    Why is this under technology anyway?
    • trekkie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2By your definition i'm a liberal and I think Cindy Sheehan is a mother destroyed by grief.

      At first I thought she was interesting but when she travelled to venezuela and hugged the tin pot dictator du jour her son must have spun in his grave. She is bat ***** insane, not liberal.

      By today's definition Barry Goldwater was liberal.
  • kerryhall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Man, I feel bad for this guy. I agree that he is just using his argument as a crutch in the grieving process. He has his right to free speech of course, but where are the hard facts to back up his claim?
  • Shabadoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ah, yes. Because religion is peaceful! Wacko...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade
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