What is Digg?69 Comments
- sharpfork, on 10/12/2007, -5/+41Different McCain too.
This clip is from back in the days prior to McCain selling his soul by pandering to the far right wing GOP base to try to get the presidential nomination. Starting as a principled person and moving to a GOP shill will bring all sorts of flip flops...
McCain is my senator. I have pictures of me and my family with him from back when he had a soul. Too bad he drank the cool-aid. - johnlabmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -11/+44Yeah, Duh. Differnet President is what you should have said. With the Republicans the GOP always comes first. Forget what's good for the U.S.A.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Don't forget, President Bush said:
"I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."
Of course, he wasn't President at the time-he was speaking about President Clinton and Kosovo. - TroubleInMind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Giuliani will inevitably self-destruct without assistance. Rudy is made of fail.
- sofaKing812, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19"CAUGHT ON TAPE" is a headline for a yeti, not John McCain.
- robotsongs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Right! And we were installing a government there too!
Americans have the attention span of a turnip. - SonOfHam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16"Kosovo was a UN led force. You can withdraw troops from there on a timetable because you know other troops will take over untill the job is done."
what about Bush's "Coalition of the willing"? How come his magical coalition keeps withdrawing their troops while we add back ours? - SonOfHam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16"Please tell me that every other story on Digg for the next 18 months isn't going to be some post about what this or that presidential candidate said"
Yes, it would sure be horrible if people were informed on our presidential candidates. - Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14The pro-war camp has to be dragged kicking and screaming to the following facts about Iraq:
1. The invasion was at best predicated on bad intel, at worse, lies. In either case, parroting the "reasons" Bush has given for being there just starts to sound like listening to why your neighbor kid decided to set fire to your deck with roman candles.
2. Having no plan for what to do after Saddam was gone has led to the current untenable situation. Thinking that democracy appears like dancing Ewoks after the Emperor is thrown down the reactor shaft should have raised a few red flags somewhere.
3. Armies fight other armies. Ours demolishes them very nicely. Armies do not do police actions well, and most of the time, wind up getting killed slowly and having their materials depleted. Not enough troops were sent in to secure the country, and now there are so many fragmented violent groups out there (who aren't kind enough to wear uniforms) that trying to achieve some sort of military victory is about as likely as a one-armed person beating seven whack-a-mole games simultaneously while blindfolded. Sure, he's going to smash a lot of things, but one of them is likely to be the arcade attendant and possibly his own testicles.
Bush's so-called "change in course" is like trading in your current trophy wife for one with slightly bigger *****; you haven't addressed the root cause of why your marriage is failing, and while it may seem kind of novel at first, it's just going to result in more of the same. I know a lot of neocons, Bushies, or whatever you want to call them don't like the idea of a "political solution" because it doesn't involve hitting something, beating their chests, or grabbing their crotches. It involves actually talking with people you don't like, which you'll have to do anyway at some point. Iraq, as it's going, is going to be a dictatorship again if something isn't done, and I'd be amazed if it's one that would even sell us oil unless we make some effort to stabilize the area without giving the violent factions more recruiting material. That's right, the current policy is making more terrorists. Why Bush & Co. are the only ones not to realize that is incredible, but not unexpected given their past actions. - humboldt99, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Its the same war! Same situation! This was also the fight against Islamic Extremism... we were fighting the "terrorists" then too!
- gruvsf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Hey barbarino-
You are correct, Somalia and Hati were two different conflicts. Let's remember why we got into the conflicts in the first place!
I can't figure out which GOP candidate is the front runner: the constant "flip-flopper" who likes to characterize himself as a maverick, a NYC mayor who forgot who was in the white house on 9/11, or some Mormon governor who's best qualification is that he's only had one wife. Damn, those are hard choices! - hifiDesign, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13I used to believe that McCain might be a good guy, but then Barbara Bush activated his Manchurian-chip and now he's just a completely different person...
/sarcasm - robotsongs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Some would say....
- Moopy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Why is flip-flopping so bad, I mean, in this case he did make the wrong flip to flop, but changing your mind isn't wrong. Next time you're in a store and you think 'Oh, I want that', you'd be damned to realize it was a mistake to change your mind
- Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Turnips do nothing but sit in the ground and concentrate on growing. If that's not a pretty focused attention span, I don't know what is.
- mrmdc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10>Different war and different situation. Duh!
Africa has no oil. Duh. - Yogitw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Isn't this a bit of a stretch?
- an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@ramiro
I was completely thrown by "Sorosite". It was like "I think there's a mineral called Sorosite" Then I realized: you are talking about George Soros. Ah.
Anyway the great thing about thinkprogress... it is undeniably partisan, but unlike, say worldnetdaily, they always include citations and source material.
So it is time for the standard response:
What specifically is inaccurate here?
hint: the standard response is .... silence. - hikaruzero, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"Please tell me that every other story on Digg for the next 18 months isn't going to be some post about what this or that presidential candidate said"
Yeah, seriously. It's not like this story is in the Political Opinion section at all ... and even if it was, its not like that section is devoted entirely to politics ... I don't see why the hell are we subjected to these heretical communist liberal stories anymore ...
/sarcasm.
Seriously, all your dumb self has to do is *not read the political section*. - BarneyF, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The invasion of Iraq happen like it did because Rumsfeld thought you could do it quick. So at that stage he was aligned with the old McCain against Clinton's Dems.
That was stupid and failed, so bye bye rummy and good riddance if you ask me.
But then something wierd happened: The Republicans want to stay in forever (To do what? It must be nation building) and the Dems want out. The entire country has flip flopped, not just McCain.
I think. - SonOfHam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6McCain: "In my view that does not mean as soon as order is restored to Haiti. It does not mean as soon as democracy is flourishing in Haiti. It does not mean as soon as we have established a viable nation in Haiti. As soon as possible means as soon we can get out of Haiti without losing any American lives."
How is that not exactly the situation in Iraq? - gdgi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3or a spring break vacation video ;]
- SecondGuesser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3To paraphrase liberals... "HAITI DIDN'T ATTACK US!!!!!!" Neither did Somalia!!!!!!
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That retarded. If McCain wanted to get elected by telling people what they want to hear, he'd be saying what Clinton, Obama, Edwards, et. al. are saying. McCain's stand on Iraq will be his undoing. He stands up for what he believes in though.
- TecHeavy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4When are we all going to wake up and see that these guys have some hidden agenda, and that our troops and the American people are the last thing on our leaders minds. These people are not stupid, they know that the strategy in Iraq isn't any better then a plan that was drawn up by 10 year olds playing with their GI Joe's. Protecting freedom is just their slight of hand... their magicians trick. WAKE UP!!
- an0nymous, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm no defender of McCain but I find the RINO appellation is usually misapplied.
- Gella321, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wish I could've asked McCain this about an hour ago. He was just gave a speech at my work today in Des Moines.
- interval, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9So are you saying that if you are Pro-war about Iraq, you have to be pro-war about _every_ war? How does that make sense? Some wars are justified for national security reasons. Some wars are justified for humanitarian reasons. Some wars aren't justified at all. Each one is different.
- bigdsinferno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3...if only we could waste this much time and energy ruining Giuliani's campaign.
- r00tus3r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't think that's quite sarcasm.
- Afreyt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2America has plenty of coal to last the better part of this century, and with coal liquefaction, we could survive quite handily without cheap middle-eastern oil. And thats assuming we can't make solar, nuclear, wind --> electric cars work. But you just admitted this is all about the oil, yet most liberals used to be called crazy for saying it was all about the oil.
Do you think us crazy liberals just have short memories? Do you think people like you didn't earn the hatred that you get from us crazy liberals who are sick of being called names by lying, flip-flopping, ***** conservatives whose only agenda is their wallet, and anybody else's freedoms, happiness, prosperity be damned? Would you really rather that more Americans died so that we can control a finite oil reserve in the middle of the religious warfare capital of the world? - futureisours, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6What people aren't allowed to change their minds. What about Clinton, Edwards, Kennedy, etc all agreeing about the Iraq war 5+ years ago? How's the for real hypocrisy?
- hiikeeba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sorry, sillyrabbits, it's election time. We get to hear how each candidate has flip flopped on issues, and why it's okay for one party and not for the other. It's politics as usual.
- akatherder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4McCain's comments are relevant to Iraq because of what he said. Let's say we went to war in Iraq to oust Saddam and stop their nuclear goals. Saddam is dead and they have no nuclear arsenal. Time to get out of dodge. McCain's comments are saying, there's nothing to gain in Haiti. Get out immediately, do not pass go or collect $200. In Somalia he gives the same reasoning. There is nothing else we can accomplish.
No one is arguing that the conflicts in Iraq, Haiti, and Somalia are the same. But the "state" of the war in Iraq is currently hopeless. The only thing we have to gain is to get out before we lose more troops. - hikaruzero, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Jeez, I actually lol'ed in my chair when I read that.
- Barbarino, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm not pro war, I'm pro America and I'm pro freedom. We freed all of Europe and we now gave these people a shot at Democracy as well, what they do with it, is up to them. I also voted for Kerry, who wasn't FAR left, he was no further left than the Clinton's, in which I loved Bill. I do like Bill Richardson. So stop thinking us who hate the FAR left are pro war or rep, because we are not.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm more upset that the supporters of this war kept screaming "it's not like Vietnam," yet the parallels are unmistakable, especially on the administrative end.
"When they stand up, we'll stand down" sounds a lot like the "Vietnamization" policy from Nixon.
"Victory with Honor" is Bush's "when the mission is complete."
The white house claims progress when the situation remains unchanged or gets worse.
The neocons made the same mistakes made in Asia, and their followers are too emotionally invested to admit their mistakes, or at least withdraw their support quietly. - hifiDesign, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It is if I never thought he was a good guy.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@sonofham
"How is that not exactly the situation in Iraq?"
Well, expensive wars in Haiti don't make Exxon more profitable. - craka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Think Progress= the most retarded websiteo/org. on the net/world.
I can't believe people take this ***** seriously, Soros is definetely not getting his moneys worth. - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Does McCain own more than one suit? Those are a year apart, and he looks exactly the same.
Oh, and he's full of ***** as usual. - stevebee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Haiti? So what? There was no murder mad religion waiting to take over Haiti and use it as a base to attack us.
There was a murder-mad religion waiting to take over Somalia. But we didn't really realize it back in 1992 or whenever that was.
With Iraq, we just cannot afford to let it be taken over by Al Quaida or any other jihadis. They'll just use it as a base to train for killing us. - jim7out, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1too bad whaterver the exit strategy, we haven't learned a thing about making sure what comes next is better than what we took out, a sfar as leadership and infrastructure is concerned. check the movie Charlie Wilson's War, you will find some ironic parallels.
http://basicknowhow.info - BarneyF, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Speaking of being forgetful...
EVERYONE seems to have forgotten that Bush 2 didn't actually start the war in Iraq. We never withdrew from Iraq during the entire Clinton presidency we were in Iraq enforcing a no fly zone, making sure he didn't build weapons of mass destruction and executing Operation Provide Comfort.
Arguably, Clinton's war against Iraq was very successful. Petraeus was running the show. I bet not 1 American in 10 can even remember it even happened any more. Wasn't cool enough with explosions and stuff to show on TV.
Bush took that situation and turned it into this nightmare. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You just answered your own question. They withdraw their troops, so SOMEONE has to fill the gap.
Do you really think its going to be good for anyone if we pull out now? High gas prices, chaos and civil war in Iraq, a REAL terrorist breeding ground? - h3smith, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3McCain will say whatever he needs to in the attempt to get elected president. He is a politician, that is it. He is noting special.
- sanman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Which Islamic extremists ruled Haiti? And where was there danger of spillover across Haiti's borders? With who -- the Dominicans? The place is an island, and doesn't have any oil. Why waste foreign lives over it?
- SBelyea, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2So these comments were made 13 years ago, when America wasn't fighting terrorist cells that have connections throughout an entire region of the world. OF COURSE they are relevant and this is more than an idiotic smear campaign.
Cripes people. - davidg11, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Um crazy liberals....there is no US strategic interest in Somalia or Haiti. You liberals find a cheap, viable alternative to oil/gas and McCain will say to get us the hell out of Iraq as well. There wont be any more terrorists because we wont need bases in sand pits that they view as sacred lands. Remember Osama only wanted us and our bases off Saudi land.
- Robotsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1let me preface this by saying that this is not judging whether removing our troops from Iraq is right or wrong, I am only attacking this single argument that is being used as the basis for such a judgement:
This is the most base and obtuse argument I have ever heard. In case you've never studied warfare, I'll let you in on a little secret: the situations are vastly disparate. Sure, on first glance you might be able to suggest some correlation about the context of the war, but the tactical, strategic and logistic metrics are nothing alike. Iraq is an entirely unique set of peoples with it's own history, tensions, and culturally significant events.
You're make the same mistake George W. Bush did in not understanding the original qualities of this battle. -
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