What is Digg?391 Comments
- DigzDogg, on 08/09/2008, -46/+330Russia has been trying to get Georgia to sign a treaty guaranteeing they would not use military force to solve the break-away region problems for over a month. It is obvious now why they wouldn't sign the treaty: they, with support from the US, were planning this incursion all along. Georgia is the one that bombarded the ***** out of what they call their own people. However, most South Ossetians consider themselves to be Russians and are, in fact, Russian citizens. The bombardment killed Russian citizens, including Russian peacekeepers there to prevent just such an incursion. So Georgia is the aggressor here. Russia has every right to retaliate.
- inactive, on 08/09/2008, -50/+253"The streets of the Georgian capital are plastered with posters of George W Bush alongside his Georgian protege. George W Bush avenue leads to Tbilisi airport."...something tells me Russia is not the Big Bad Wolf this time...
- c0mputar, on 08/10/2008, -25/+146Ossetia has being trying, one way or another, to break off of Georgia entirely since the fall of the Soviet Union. A few years after the fall, Ossetia declared independence, which was not recognized by Georgia. A poll done in the late 90s had something like a 95-99% approval rate to seperate, and that was with a 95% turnout rate. South Ossetia's population is 90% russian. Such a thing happened in any western country, and you would have the UN and multiple western countries on the side of the Ossetians.
This is just like Tibet and China. However, unlike China, Georgia has taken the step to make this a full-scale war while committing genocide. Comon... they began the attacks right at the start of the Olympics so the rest of the world would be too busy to notice a bunch of Ossetians being blown up, 1500 civilians on the first night to be exact... Civilians who had no way to defend themselves, nor could the 1000 Russian peacekeepers who are completely inadequate to defend against shelling, whom 20 were killed in as well.
Unfortunately for Georgia, they failed to take South Ossetia fast enough and set up there army into the sole chokepoint into the region (the north is one long mountain range, with one entry point from russia which leads into South Ossetia. Now, like any other ***** country in the world, Russia is pouring there army into the region to defend a region which should either be its own country or apart of Russia, and even if neither of that is true, you bet my ass that the USA, of all the countries in the world, would be the first to come to the defense of a helpless democratic region. Unfortunately for Russia, the US has been backed by Georgia in Iraq, and has helped Georgia build there military... and it doesn't help that the media loves to hate on Russia and so the american government will do what it can to please the american ignorance and help Georgia.
In simple steps:
1. South Ossetia has sought independence from Georgia for more then 15 years.
2. Georgia shells South Ossetia killing 1500 civilians and 20 russian peacekeepers in the first night, and more acts of genocide were committed within Ossetian villages later in the day.
3. Russia sends military into region to defend South Ossetia from the aggression.
4. Georgian president, realizing he's *****, seeks help through western intervention.
5. This won't work, and the worst that can happen to Russia is that it gets villainized by the media.
FUTURE POSSIBILITIES FROM THIS POINT.
6. Russia takes over Georgia, or just South Ossetia
7. Russia cuts a deal with Georgia to gain control of the oil pipelines so that Georgia can remain intact.
8. No matter what, South Ossetia is going to fall into the hands of the Russians now, which is probably what the Ossetians want. - sanman, on 08/09/2008, -14/+91Here's an excellent analysis by TIME Magazine:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831 ...
---
"So, after a couple of days of skirmishing along the unofficial border between his forces and those of the separatists, the Georgian leader launched a full-blown invasion whose aim, his government said, was to 'restore constitutional order,' that is, control by the central government, in South Ossetia. Plainly, the offensive was a gamble, because Saakashvili should have had little doubt about Moscow's readiness to defend the separatists. Moreover, NATO officials had repeatedly warned the Georgian government against launching any attempt to resolve the dispute through military means. Still, he pressed forward."
---
Basically, the Saakashvili's a crook who "won" the "election" by rigging it. He's no democrat. Now he's deliberately engineered this conflict, in the hopes of getting some love and aid from NATO to bail out his faltering regime. His govt would soon have collapsed anyway, unless he found some stunt to pull to save his ass -- and this invasion was it. It won't wash. - AReallyGoodName, on 08/10/2008, -12/+84Do you think Russia is doing this in order to make Ossetia an independant nation?
Look at the regions inside Russia that border North Ossetia and South Ossetia.
Specifically look at Ingushetia and Chechnya and what the Russians have done there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingushetia
"The returning Ingush faced considerable animosity from the Ossetians. The Ingush were forced to buy their houses back from the Ossetians and Russians."
Seriously Russia is just playing ethnic groups against each other. There is no good side in this war and Russia certainly isn't doing this to protect the Ossetians. - tonicboy, on 08/10/2008, -10/+68While you're in many regards, this is hardly a black and white situation. First of all, Georgia does have legitimate claims on South Ossetia. And you can't point to South Ossetians' Russian citizenship as any justification for Russian invasion. Russia gave Ossetians citizenship exactly for this reason - to try to pry them away from Georgia. That would be like if Mexico gave Mexican citizenship to New Mexicans and then tried to use that as justification to invade if we ever stood against their secession. Similarly, Russia gave aid to Afghan Communists and when they were under fire from anti-Communists forces, used the excuse "hey, we're just here to help out our Communist brothers" as justification to invade and occupy Afghanistan. On the flip side, many Ossetians would prefer to be Russians rather than Georgians and it's ambiguous who should have claim to the territory, but this is hardly the case of evil Georgians invading a small country and Russia coming to the rescue on a white horse.
- glutamate, on 08/10/2008, -1/+57Every comment here needs one of these: [citation needed]
- inactive, on 08/10/2008, -31/+81Western media is lying agian.
- alexlavr, on 08/10/2008, -13/+59I am quoting someone else here but you need to know this:
Let's see some facts and how it present on US media.
Facts:
1. Georgian army invaded South Ossetia and kill 1500 civilians (2% of all South Ossetia population) and kill more then 10 peacekeepers in first day of war. Before Russian army come.
2. 30000 refugees goes to Russia and ask protection, no one goes to Georgia.
3. South Ossetian capital completely destroyed (with civilians inside) by Georgian heavy weapon.
4. Georgians used "Grad" (reactive artillery systems) to destroy Tshinvali. This is not "precision weapons". "Grad" destroy all and kill everybody on square kilometers.
5. Only after all this happened Russian army come South Ossetia and start destroying Georgian military objects.
6. World media begins company about Russian Aggression. May be there some civilians killed by Russian weapon when they fight military objects on Georgia. It's bad. Very bad. But it's far far from 1500 civilians killed by Georgians in first day and 500 civilians in 2nd day.
7. There is no any oil pipeline on South Ossetia. But Georgia have oil pipeline on their territory.
8. Georgia ally of US. South Ossetia ally of Russia.
It's facts.
What say American politics:
1. Russian response 'disproportionate'
2. Russia must go out
(if 1500 civilians killed by Georgia at first day, how much they kill if Russia go out? politics do not care about that. They care about "who is our ally" but not "who kill 2000 civilians by 2 days")
What say media:
1. Russia invades Georgia
2. Georgia forces seek cease-fire
(seek cease-fire, after killing 2000 civilians!!!)
3. Russian warplanes target Georgia
4. There many pics in world media from Georgia and nothing from South Ossetia
(nothing about real facts, looks like it Russian invades - technically it's not lie, but they hide true)
And some questions:
1. What a hell with this world happen? Why real genocide with 2000 dead people is not interesting to world media.
2. People, please, why you so love story about Russian aggressors? Why you dont see who is real aggressor?!
3. I understand that Georgia is your ally. But when your ally make genocide why your media support it? - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -5/+48What's clear to me is that this is an issue that is complicated. We should not rush to judgement without an understanding of the situation. This article is valuable because it brings a different perspective, and explains some of the subtler issues involved.
Some people don't like subtleties, or their brains are not equipped to handle them. There seems to be a desire by the Neocons to create a new global Cold War. This is a consequence of the global "war on terror". For example, Russia and China have no interest in attacking Iran.
What is really sickening about this is that there was a chance after the breakup of the Soviet Union and the opening up of China to create a peaceful community of nations. There was even talk of "the end of history". But the Neocons have pushed for a new American Empire which suits their purposes while millions around the globe suffer the consequences. Even American citizens are victims as this is used as an excuse to take away civil rights.
One blogger has suggested that the situation in Georgia is a diversion so that Russia cannot assist Iran when the US and Israel attack. Russia could easily resupply Iran through ports on the Caspian Sea (both Russia and Iran border the Caspian). This would break the embargo. So Russia must be contained.
http://digg.com/world_news/Massive_US_Naval_Armada ... - avengingturnip, on 08/10/2008, -6/+42Are you saying that countries with tanks are wolves? What do you suppose an M-1 Abrams tank tells an Iraqi?
- mattgilberg, on 08/10/2008, -12/+48We already have the entire Middle East hating U.S. because we are taking Israel's side in the Gaza Strip Conflict. Why can't the U.S. just let other countries solve their own land disputes.
- Hangly, on 08/09/2008, -11/+46What do 10 years of US arms shipments to Georgia tell you?
Russians aren't stupid. - jorichter, on 08/10/2008, -4/+35I still want to know why Russia vetos every attempt to stop the Genocide in Darfur, if they consider genocide a good enough reason to start a full military over. Can someone explain that?
I'm not siding with anyone but people seem to have already jumped to either Russia or Georgias defense, isn't it a bit too soon to tell what actually happened? - brooho, on 08/10/2008, -2/+32BBS is writing different top news on such time on different language sites.
On main page its wrote "Russian jets attack Georgian town" but in russian page its wrote "Russia: the capital of South Ossetia is made free".
see more there http://digg.com/world_news/War_in_Ossetia_and_how_ ... - kemp34, on 08/10/2008, -3/+25Interesting goodname, I will have to look into that.
One problem is, however, that Ossetia voted in the high 90% range for independence from Georgia and the vote has essentially been denied legitimacy by the Western sphere of influence for seemingly political reasons. IMO, self determination in this sense comes first, so if Georgia won't grant independence under a clear desire on the part of Ossetians, then I would say Georgia starts off in the wrong. - SemiSarcastic, on 08/10/2008, -0/+21People on digg are having a major problem with staying objective on this issue. For you people, it's either Russia's fault or Georgia's fault and can't stand the fact that everything isn't presented in terms of black and white. Also none of you are real journalists and you certainly aren't acting like one either, you think it's easy covering both sides in a warzone? We'll get the information we want as it is available to us.
All of you here lack perspective and objectivity, and as for whether it's Russia's or Georgia's fault it's both their faults because they both suffer the same problems all of you diggers are having, plus both counties seem to have a problem with remembering their own histories with each other. If they did they wouldn't be trying to put bullets into each other and be neck deep in dead bodies by now. - inactive, on 08/09/2008, -12/+33read between the lines son...the cake is a lie...
- inactive, on 08/10/2008, -10/+31We did.
- inactive, on 08/09/2008, -13/+32Amen brother!
- RVDsb, on 08/10/2008, -20/+38George Bush hates Russians.
- PoeticRasling, on 08/10/2008, -2/+20Because that makes too much sense.
- kemp34, on 08/10/2008, -10/+27@atdigg: Their forces were attacked first fool.
- yosserhughes, on 08/10/2008, -0/+15" The streets of the Georgian capital are plastered with posters of George W Bush alongside his Georgian protege. George W Bush avenue leads to Tbilisi airport. But he has ignored Kissinger's dictum: "Great powers don't commit suicide for their allies." Perhaps his neoconservative allies in Washington have forgotten it, too. Let's hope not
Still there, 8 paragraphs down. - Bartboy919, on 08/10/2008, -3/+18I think the real question is, why does the writer of this story have an AOL Email? Stuck in the 90's are we?
- waydee, on 08/10/2008, -6/+19I don't understand where this idea that Russia is being cast as the primary evil in all of this is coming from - every report I've read makes mention of the Georgians bombing South Ossetia (what is not clear is what kicked that off, but I digress) yet every Russian and pro-Russian comment I've read criticises the western media for not showing the full story.
I admit there is definitely a bias, especially in the US press but to suggest that details are being left out or withheld is ***** and only proves a Russian bias. - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -6/+18Bravo. Don't forget Israel had advisers in Georgia too. The dump is a blister of toxic neocon ideologues.
- Pinkertinkle, on 08/10/2008, -2/+14Saakashvili picks the start of the Olympics to stir the hornets' nest then expects the US to protect him from the stings?
- Naieve, on 08/10/2008, -3/+15Yes we supported a former Soviet State.
That's basic US Policy.
Come to me when you have some information on the US prompting Georgia to retake South Ossetia. - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -8/+19"The streets of the Georgian capital are plastered with posters of George W Bush alongside his Georgian protege. George W Bush avenue leads to Tbilisi airport." - I assume this sentence is from the Guardian article. Now it isn't in the article. When you google the phrase it is also removed from other sites that had quoted it. How strange!
- jorichter, on 08/10/2008, -0/+10Dugg especially for this sentence-
"this is an issue that is complicated. We should not rush to judgment without an understanding of the situation."
And being one of the few people to make a logical and reasonable comment about the current crisis. As I said below people seem to have jumped to the defense of either Georgia or Russia, based mostly on one or two articles they have read.
The whole thing is ridiculous, the comments that Georgians are "fascists" and Saakashvili is "mini Hitler" are unnecessary, and equally as are the comments that Russians are "commie dictators" and so on.
As it stands no one knows the full extent of what has happened, and yet most people commenting apparently have a better understanding than the UN SC. So picking one side and condemning the other really adds nothing. It is a really terrible situation and most importantly hundreds (if not thousands) of people both Russian and Georgian are being hurt. So I think people need a bit more respect and not link to a random video or article as "proof" that the other side is wrong.
So thank you for a ration comment. And let's hope there is a peaceful solution sometime soon. - solefald, on 08/10/2008, -1/+11dont forget that there is also a North Ossetia, which, in fact, IS a part of Russia.
- angeland8, on 08/10/2008, -2/+12You don't know the subject well. The Georgians attacked South Ossetia in the evening August 7. Russian troops managed to reach Tskhinval only by 3-4 p.m. August 8. Too long for those who have tanks at the border.
It was Georgia who violated all the agreements. They are not allowed to have military forces near South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Because of Georgia the Ossetians are facing genocide and humanitarian catastrophy now.
Spy planes? Who told you that? It was never proved. No signs of planes were ever found. - solid12345, on 08/10/2008, -4/+14"most South Ossetians consider themselves to be Russians"
Which is why their little independence movement is a pile of *****. They claim they want independence yet carry Russian passports? Where do their loyalties lie, with Russia, Georgia, or themselves? - thecoolestguy, on 08/10/2008, -23/+33The Georgian president is acting like a neocon idiot.
- anonymous1986, on 08/10/2008, -2/+11Seriously you need to get out of your bubble where you are living in now. Most countries in the world do not have a favourable view of the united states since they are acting like the world police. The governments of these nations, act as if they are supporting them so that they can get economic aid and military assistance. However the general people of the street do not take a favourable view of the united states (more so after the the wars in afghanistan and iraq). Countries that do not support the united states are marginalised and media bias is instilled in reports. You should not just stereotype countries which do not see eye to eye with the US as evil. Take countries such as venezuala, cuba, china and russia for example. Furthermore it seems very hypocritical of the united states supporting kosovo's moved for independence whilst rejecting that of south ossetia where 90% of the people want independence.
- spoiled1, on 08/10/2008, -1/+10Citation needed.
- goffy59, on 08/10/2008, -1/+10This world is *****.
- brooho, on 08/10/2008, -6/+15Just open your eyes. 2000 civilians killed by your good Georgian friends.
- dhVyse, on 08/10/2008, -2/+11Strangely I feel like playing some S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
- inactive, on 08/10/2008, -12/+21The civilian casualties are predominately caused by Georgians.
In the short term Georgians started it and in the Olympics at that.
So stuff the ***** about "teh evil Russia". - pigfister, on 08/10/2008, -6/+15Russia-Georgia conflict: it's about oil...again!
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406294.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2008/08/406301. ...
US puppy Georgia provokes war with Russia
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/405920.html
condy with agressor in Tblisi "warns Russia" (BBC)
The neoconservative President of Georgia, Michael Sakaashvilli, started a full scale attack on the separatist russian minority province South Ossetia. The Ossetian capital is besieged right now. Air strikes are done. Russian peace keepers were killed, as well as many civilians.
Georgia is a close ally of the US and major player in Zbigniew Brzezinskis wet dream "the grand chessboard". It is part of the US strategy to weaken Russia by provoking conflicts on its boarders.
What the US seem to forget: all good chess players are russian....
A few hours ago Russia was officially asked by South Ossetia and Abchasia for military protection, russian troops are already heading towards Georgia and Ossetia. No doubt: Georgia will loose this "game".
The question is: why did Georgia start this war? There´s no doubt Saakashvilli won´t do any step without the order and knowledge of Washington. Why going into war with Russia?
Is there perhaps a major US plan - may be a war against Iran? Forcing Russia to focus on "its" problems, instead of mixing in into the Iran thing? Attacking Iran while China ist the host of the Olympic Games? So that China will be kind of bound...?
Speculations... But, the questions remain...
youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuhlteq0VM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guZQfn_hlLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBZXTZkOd_w - sanman, on 08/10/2008, -1/+9gincarnated, you tell me -- why the ***** did Georgia launch a huge tank assault and massive artillery bombardment against South Ossetians, if they consider them to be their own people? That they launched these attacks -- against civilians no less -- is beyond dispute. They committed a massacre.
They were trying to achieve ethnic cleansing.
So tell me, shouldn't you be supporting Serbia on Kosovo, since according to your logic, "how can Serbs be invading/attacking their own territory"?
Your playing a game of double standards, and it reeks to high heaven. See, the world doesn't like hypocrites like you. - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -13/+21Observers had little doubt the operation to take South Ossetia back under Georgian control bore the hallmarks of a planned military offensive. It was not the result of a ceasefire that had broken down the night before. It was more a fulfillment of the promise the Georgian president, Mikhail Saakashvili, made to recapture lost national territory, and with it a measure of nationalist pride.
The assault appears to have been carefully timed to coincide with the opening of the Olympic games when the Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin, was in Beijing. Tom de Waal of the Institute for War and Peace Reporting and an expert on the region said: "Clearly there have been incidents on both sides, but this is obviously a planned Georgian operation, a contingency plan they have had for some time, to retake [South Ossetia's capital] Tskhinvali.
"Possibly the Georgians calculated that with Putin in Beijing they could recapture the capital in two days and then defend it over the next two months."
http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1580/135/ - DigzDogg, on 08/10/2008, -3/+10Could you please support your words with reliable sources of your information? I never heard of "ossetian mafia" before.
Just for the test, I tried to find "Ossetian mafia" in google I got only 4(!) links.
Then I tried to find "Georgian mafia" and got 2,190 links.
one of links gives me that:
http://www.politicalforum.com/western-europe/19182 ...
French police have detained eleven people in a Paris suburb suspected of recruiting volunteers to fight against US and British forces in Iraq. In the course of inquiry they confessed belonging to a criminal group directed by certain Targamadze said to belong to the immediate entourage of Georgian president Saakashvili.
The detained individuals are said to have been running recruiting networks among Islamic militants who live in France. Among other things they are engaged in drug trafficking and trade as well as arms trafficking.
Georgian mafia is said to be particularly dangerous owing to the fact that they have formed firm contacts with Islamic terrorists of all stripes and do logistics for them. The French police say that it is much owing to Georgian criminal group that many terror acts by Islamic militants were successful.
Nice one, right?
Can you tell me what sources about Ossetian mafia are you using? - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -7/+14Observers had little doubt the operation to take South Ossetia back under Georgian control bore the hallmarks of a planned military offensive. It was not the result of a ceasefire that had broken down the night before. It was more a fulfillment of the promise the Georgian president, Mikhail Saakashvili, made to recapture lost national territory, and with it a measure of nationalist pride.
The assault appears to have been carefully timed to coincide with the opening of the Olympic games when the Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin, was in Beijing. Tom de Waal of the Institute for War and Peace Reporting and an expert on the region said: "Clearly there have been incidents on both sides, but this is obviously a planned Georgian operation, a contingency plan they have had for some time, to retake [South Ossetia's capital] Tskhinvali.
"Possibly the Georgians calculated that with Putin in Beijing they could recapture the capital in two days and then defend it over the next two months."
http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1580/135/ - inactive, on 08/10/2008, -16/+23Sorry, this is all Russia. Russia has been planning an invasion of Georgia for YEARS. Putin is still the head of the Russia government (read: Dictator for life), and is calling the shots. This is 100% Russia's doing. Sorry, but we've had the 'this is our people's land' argument before (Hitler).
- devikcrazystar, on 08/10/2008, -1/+8@angeland8
"It's not an invasion. Russia has right to have troops in South Ossetia. That right was granted by international organisations.It was Georgia who violated those agreements and attacked Russian peacemakers. Moreover they started ethnic cleansing against the Ossetians."
Bravo, 5 short sentences, only one true.
1. It's not an invasion.
Yeah, right. Gori is obviously in South Ossetia.
http://digg.com/world_news/Russia_Ignores_ceasefir ...
2. Russia has right to have troops in South Ossetia.
That's one true.
3. That right was granted by international organisations.
Lie. That right was granted under the terms of last war's truce. That right came with some conditions, like... err... peacekeeping.
4. It was Georgia who violated those agreements and attacked Russian peacemakers.
Agreements were violated many times in the past by both sides. The were being violated by Ossetians for days before the Georgian attack while the Russian peacekeeping forces were doing nothing to stop it, despite Georgian demands. Thus the agreements were firsts violated by Ossetians (at least in this clash), then by Russians...
5. Moreover they started ethnic cleansing against the Ossetians.
Simply lie. Don't suppose You have anything to back it up? - SemiSarcastic, on 08/10/2008, -2/+9As if any other media is going to cover this correctly. Western media pro-Georgia and anti-Russia, any other pro-Russia and anti-Georgia. Both are biased mind as well read up on both.
- SuperVepr308, on 08/10/2008, -1/+8Props for the non-use of articles in your sentences. Gives it that Russian flair we all dig so much.
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