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Blame the Employers: Obama's Wrong Stand on Immigration

online.wsj.com — As a candidate, Barack Obama made a point of criticizing the Bush Administration's showy raids on even law-abiding employers to round up illegal workers. But now, like Bush, Obama targets business on immigration.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jul 17, 2009

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  • edstate, on 07/16/2009, -19/+63Both sides are at fault.

    The loopy left wants to give every downtrodden soul on Earth unfettered access to our already-strained social services (in exchange for 30 million Democrat votes).

    The cheating right (businesses) want their sweatshop labor, laws be damned.
  • vurdillac, on 07/16/2009, -5/+45I live in a border state and hear the "we can't check" excuse a lot. It's not like it's hard to figure out who is illegal - if you arrived in the US in the last month and can't speak English, it doesn't take a government database to figure out your legal status. The employer just wants the cheap labor and everyone pretends to not know what's going on. I've experienced this a lot working for restaurants that have to follow all kinds of government rules and regulations to operate as a business. Just not the labor laws, apparently. Going after the employer is the only solution. If you make them comply like you do with every other law, they won't hire illegal labor and the illegals will go home on their own. We already have enough poor US citizens, we don't have to import poor people.
  • gbudavid, on 07/16/2009, -8/+45If The Employer is made responsible for all the costs of Care and Feeding the Illegal worker,including,Incarceration,transport and Medical.Plus a large fine Don't you think the problem would shrink signifigantly?
    The Draw Back is that We would have to pay a little more for food and getting our lawn mowed.
  • ForumDriv, on 07/16/2009, -3/+38We need a top to bottom reform on the immigration system so that people can come legally with visas, not a smuggler; people can get legal if they pay fines and register; employers who cheat don't get an advantage over those that do not; and all workers are protected on basic rights, working conditions, and wages. But all the parts need to move together as part of COMPREHENSIVE reform in order for it to really work. It is not about more immigration or less, it is about more of the immigration that is happening happening on a legal footing under our control.
  • thepoliticalcat, on 07/16/2009, -3/+23Trying to catch each and every illegal immigrant individually is a lot more burdensome and expensive for the authorities (not to mention open to abuse) than simply putting laws in place to penalize employers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants to get cheap labour that then undercuts wages for working Americans (whatever their ethnic background). Most employers can well afford to do the minimum amount of good faith verification spelled out in immigrant labour statutes.
  • vurdillac, on 07/16/2009, -3/+23No, I'm saying I worked with people who told me they had just moved from Mexico last week and spoke no English. It was literally impossible that they were working legally at the businesses they were employed at. When the subject turned to immigration, I asked one manager if the non-English speaking employees had documentation. He said they provided social security numbers. I said one had told me she just moved here. He said "well, there's no way to check" smiled, shrugged, and walked off. This happened at every restaurant I worked in this town.

    I also taught adult ESL for the local school district. My supervisors were instructing us on how to help the applicants falsify their information to maximize eligibility, I declined and that was the beginning of the end of my employment there. Talking to my students, many had just moved here and none could speak English very well. We avoided the subject of legality, but all the married couples had different last names, which would mean they were using false names or were not married. Probably false names. I still volunteer to teach English, which is likely more than you are doing for new immigrants, so no I don't think they are "beyond the pale" or whatever, thepoliticalcat. And at least here in Texas, almost all immigration is from Latin America, mostly Mexico. So you can spin whatever fantasy you want about Irish, Icelanders, or Germans, but my direct experience working with immigrants demonstrates otherwise.

    I tried a discussion class once and the students were just like you. When we were exploring attitudes toward immigration, they all, without fail, assumed it was a racial issue. When pressed, none could come up with a single reason why anyone might object to their being here other than racism. Just like they couldn't comprehend that the US wasn't so wealthy that their demands for unlimited access to social services would seem unreasonable. After all, money is taken from their checks (that they are illegally earning) and they assumed that that was more money than what it cost to have four kids and stick the hospital emergency room for the bill, monthly food stamps, ect.
  • lanemik, on 07/17/2009, -1/+20I'm definitely okay with a business being able to hire anybody. I am not okay with that business hiring people illegally so they can skirt minimum wage and various workers rights and worker safety rules.
  • tmonsta1, on 07/16/2009, -7/+25The fact of the matter is very simply this...

    As long as there is ANY company that is willing to turn a blind eye, and hire an illegal, because the cost savings of not having to pay a minimum wage, or benefits or insurance... they will keep coming. You can shut down all the social services you want, you can let them die in the streets, you can stack the brown bodies like cord wood, But as long as there are poor people 20 feet across the border, and a company over here willing to turn a blind eye... they are going to hop that fence

    You want to solve the problem... CRUSH the companies that hire illegals. No jobs, no money, no incentive to come here... it's that simple

    and ALL you republican ***** can suck on it. Providing the social services for the people who are duped into coming here is the only decent thing to do, especially when the companies that are benefiting from the exploitation are AMERICAN companies... but hey, unions and labor protection laws are a bad thing, right? and letting illegal immigrant children not learn to read and write, that's a benefit too right? yep, leave them in the streets... I'm sure everything will turn out just fine
  • ZenMojo, on 07/17/2009, -1/+17I'm a raging liberal and I don't think illegal immigrants should get unfettered access to strained social services. That sort of undermines those social services.
  • bossm4n, on 07/16/2009, -4/+20I agree that the system needs work, especially in regards to simplifying the process for those who attempt to go through the system legitimately. I have seen too many people get up at 3:00 in the morning to go down to the immigration office and wait in lines virtually all day, only to be turned away for some ridiculous reason. Point being, it's too easy to get in to the country illegally, whereas following the letter of the law is an unbridled pain in the ass.

    However, in response to your comment, "But it still sickens me to see the unbridled hate hurled at, for example, Hispanics, the vast majority of whom enrich the US with their culture heritage and assimilation into society...", in my opinion, the source of this "hatred" stems from those NOT assimilating. Take it from someone who lives in a sanctuary city, we have multiple local TV stations, dozens of radio stations, newspapers, magazines, etc that are Spanish only. In certain parts of town, street signs are in Spanish only. This is not assimilation. This is the US losing it's sovereignty plain and simple. There is now no incentive for these immigrants to learn English. Even some of our schools have exclusively Spanish speaking classrooms. I don't recall any of this being done for any other nationality. Yes, they enrich our culture with theirs, but at what cost?
  • IgorUnchained, on 07/17/2009, -1/+15If you take away a person's business license for hiring undocumented workers, you take away the problem. Sure, people would still hire day laborers and daycare workers under the table, but that wouldnt be able to sustain the influx that we have experienced.

    Im not saying I would totally agree with yanking licenses....but it would end the problem overnight. I have had to show legal documentation for every job I have ever had.....I dont know how so many "suspicious" people slip through the cracks in the SAME
    industries to the SAME employers year after year.
  • Dregganaut, on 07/17/2009, -1/+15What a load of pro-business interests *****. The employers are directly responsible.
  • tmonsta1, on 07/16/2009, -3/+17from the article:
    "Illegal immigration to the U.S. has been falling primarily because the economic downturn has reduced demand for labor. Last year net migration from Mexico fell by half."

    see... if there's no companies willing to hire them they don't come
    proof in the pudding
  • rw2y, on 07/16/2009, -1/+14As someone who could support immigration reform, the first step is enforcing existing laws. e-verify may not be perfect, but let's give it a chance and improve it, but use it.
    Legal immigration is what is desired and I think supported by most Americans. My father was an immigrant. Illegal immigration is the enemy of immigration reform.
  • gbudavid, on 07/16/2009, -6/+19agreed
  • draculthemad, on 07/17/2009, -0/+12Why don't they just nail them on minimum wage violations instead then?

    I have no sympathy for the employers who say "We couldnt tell he was illegal!" but they are paying them a fraction of the cost a worker could otherwise legally demand. Especially the ones who threaten their workers with calling the INS on anyone who complains.

    The problem isn't the people moving here to find good work, its the people exploiting them. That includes the human trafficers, any corrupt officials on EITHER side of the border who facilitate it, and it damned sure includes the people hiring them at a wage then KNOW no one with any other choice would accept.

    I also think the bias against immigration is entirely crap. The idea that most of them are criminals is also crap. 100+ years ago it was "Irish need not apply!" , and you had people serious questionining the patriotism/loyalty of catholics even as recent as when Kennedy was running for president.

    But now you have someone with a last name of "O'Reilly" biatching about "them damned immigrants!"


  • digitalArtform, on 07/17/2009, -1/+13We have an Illegal Employer problem. WSJ wants Obama to ignore it.
  • Chompy, on 07/17/2009, -4/+16How about this: if you're illegal, you get booted out. I'm unsure when this became an "extreme" position, but there it is. If people want to become citizens of this country, there's a legal way to do it. Yeah it's a pain in the ass, but changing your frigging country isn't like changing socks, and it shouldn't be. Seems sane to me.
  • Erik1421, on 07/17/2009, -5/+15Many immigrants are not 6th grade dropouts. I know many people who came here to the states with university degrees who are currently working on construction jobs. These are productive people who would greatly benefit the economy and the country as a whole. We need to stop this conservative mindset in order to progress for the good of America and its citizens.
  • Blinker1315, on 07/16/2009, -8/+17Immigration is obviously in need of vast overhaul (just like tort reform is essential, but will never happen with Democrats in power). No one wants people migrating to the US to cheat and take advantage of the system; on the other hand, this is a country of immigrants and it's hard to imagine the US will prosper if it doesn't continue that tradition. The main difference between the current wave of immigration, legal and illegal, from that of the past, is that it's people coming in by foot, rather than by boat or plane, and much more difficult to keep track of. But it still sickens me to see the unbridled hate hurled at, for example, Hispanics, the vast majority of whom enrich the US with their culture heritage and assimilation into society--just as the Irish, Jewish people, Italians, Poles, Germans, etc. did not even 100 years ago.
  • jeremy66158, on 07/17/2009, -0/+8Employers like employees who won't report them because they can abuse them and don't have to worry about getting in trouble. A worker who is illegal won't tell on employers who abuse and underpay them because then they loose their job and have to go back to what ever country they came from. If you want to make these employees not take the the jobs most Americans won't even do if their life depended on it then you stop the employers not the employees. How hard is it to have a verification system? A fake SSN should not be hard to detect and if the employers wanted to find out they would easily lobby successfully for a workable verification system. The essential reason we have "illegals" is because employers want them! Stop getting so mad a some poor dude who took the job you don't want, instead get mad at the boss who doesn't want you with all your rights.
  • 1hrSleep, on 07/17/2009, -2/+10To be fair, if you can't speak English then you probably don't belong in the US anyhow. I learned English when we moved to Canada and I expect the same from all other immigrants.
  • EverDreamer221, on 07/17/2009, -1/+8+1 to Erik1421. Lots of people, for instance, from Eastern Europe have excellent education and could really achieve a lot and contribute a lot when given an opportunity. But no, the U.S. would rather have half a million new illegals every year and give almost zero chance for those that pass Canadian or Australian criteria for immigration with flying colors.

    I myself have a Master's, a ton of work experience and a pretty high confidence I'd benefit any U.S. employer a lot. The only chance to attempt that is to pass the Green Card Lottery - with the chance of 0.5%, one attempt per year. Yeah, right...
  • netant, on 07/17/2009, -0/+7Legal visas holders will not get work because illegal immigrants are available to be exploited at $3-4/hour. Crack down on illegal immigration by fining businesses $100K for each illegal worker, and prison sentences for trying to conceal illegal immigrant hiring, and those legal visa workers won't have any problem being hired at minimum wage.
  • atdigg, on 07/16/2009, -2/+9why, are you afraid they might learn English if they stay more than 2 years?
  • vurdillac, on 07/17/2009, -1/+8There's your problem - you don't understand there are not three players- A and B are both us. When the government pays for all those social services we all get the bill. And we are running a huge deficit - lots of states don't have enough money to operate. The government is not a bottomless well of money that we can all scoop from. I understand those people are in need, but they are their home country's problem. We can't afford to do this for them.
  • vurdillac, on 07/17/2009, -4/+11I am not a rich man. But just because I am in need and my neighbor seemingly has more than enough, I don't have a right to just take his stuff. Proximity and need is not a justification for theft. Here's an idea - let's blame the government- the Mexican government. Maybe if they got their hands out of the till long enough to help their own people, it wouldn't become our problem.
  • m0llusk, on 07/17/2009, -0/+7Illegal hiring is what drives illegal immigration. It doesn't make sense to value a person's labor, but not that person or their family.
  • Koushiro, on 07/17/2009, -0/+7I have a background check to work at any of the jobs I've been employed at, why is that so hard to do?
  • tmonsta1, on 07/17/2009, -5/+11you know, just by the way you phrased at, I can tell you're a bigot

    you called them illegals, when they stay in their own country....so exactly what are they doing that is "illegal"

    I hope that gives you just a glimpse into your own ***** up logic... and enough food for thought for you to think this through to more then a puddles depth

    by your own logic... all these american labor jobs moved to Mexico, and that halved migration. So your saying that they cross the border for JOBS and not to bilk the welfare roles

    These are the same idiots who bitch and moan about immigration, listen to Rush Limbaugh, and watch Sean Hannity, then go shop at ***** WalMart.... that hires the illegals, or carries the goods that are made by the companies that hire the illegals in the first place, BUT HEY, THEY GOT IT CHEAP! Nevermind the human cost.

    pick your argument and stick to it. Fact is, the "anti-immigration" ***** who are all up in arms don't give two ***** about anything other then the fact that they aren't white.
  • Blinker1315, on 07/16/2009, -4/+10You make a very point, bossm4n, about the proliferation of Spanish-only signs, and Spanish-speaking classrooms, and I'm against that. Thanks the Democrats and the politically-crowd for that. As for Spanish radio and tv stations, that's free enterprise, and surely there is such a proliferation of media available today that there's something for everyone.

    And so we agree more than disagree. I would say, however, that there are millions of Americans, whether they live in border states or not, who are simply against immigrants of any kind, just like their predecessors in other great waves of immigration in the country's history.
  • tmonsta1, on 07/16/2009, -5/+11so you're saying if they left a country where they were poor and illiterate, and bought into all the "America, the land of opportunity" *****, and then when they get here, they get ***** by the ***** who employ them illegally with no benefits or insurance, and then they get injured... the proper thing to do would be let them die?

    how ***** up a human being are you?
  • CosmicSurfer, on 07/17/2009, -0/+6BURIED for the typical Corporatist blather that this pap of a paper puts out..and the simple-minded fantasy that it inspires....
    I know...Why not just put them all on the next shuttle and shoot them all to Mars to colonize. Then they really would be aliens....(s/)
    That Flat World must be getting REALLY boring
  • lanemik, on 07/17/2009, -1/+7Are you really making that argument? lol
  • mollydog12, on 07/17/2009, -1/+7"The main difference between the current wave of immigration, legal and illegal, from that of the past ...."

    is that they are primarily unskilled, uneducated, illegally take advantage of social services that weren't available to immigrants who built the country, and many don't assimilate, (no need because they can disappear into ethnic enclaves which duplicate the language and culture of their home countries).

  • ZenMojo, on 07/17/2009, -2/+8Funny how WSJ became so popular over the last two or three months. I still remember the Digg articles about the fight between WSJ's partial owners and Murdoch over the paper.
  • mollydog12, on 07/17/2009, -0/+6anybody who is in the country legally ?
  • BuboTitan, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5We did just that kind of amnesty back in the 1980s. It was supposed to solve the problem, but instead, illegal immigration soared after that. They all come expecting another amnesty.
  • FKnight, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5How to solve the illegal immigration problem:
    Mexico becomes a state.

  • richiewrt, on 07/17/2009, -1/+6The real problem is, companies want to bring in foreign workers and pay them less, especially in any tech field. Bringing in these workers on visas will just open the door to lowering the standard of living of a lot of people. There are plenty of unemployed American who can do jobs that are currently being held by foreign workers who came here on visas.
  • EverDreamer221, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5Not necessarily. If the U.S. had a system similar to, let's say, Canadian one (points for education, languages, material well-being etc.), and only highly qualified and in-demand workers would be allowed to enter, I really believe it would have absolutely no adverse effect on the standard of living. For example, European wages are usually higher in tech fields, especially considering recent currency rates - no one sufficiently qualified to pass visa requirements would go to work in the U.S. for 40k$/year or so.

    As for unqualified foreign workers, it is an entirely different situation.
  • digitalArtform, on 07/17/2009, -1/+6Your boss wants an overabundance of workers. It depresses wages.
  • uncertainty, on 07/16/2009, -6/+11Democratic*
  • mobling, on 07/17/2009, -0/+5A shout out to all of my friends and family in California.

    How is that illegal immigration thing working out for you?
  • wakeboardertj, on 07/17/2009, -1/+6Open borders? wow, come live in a border state and you'll have your mind changed real fast. If no your an idiot because the states like california have already reached the tipping point where the illegals do far more harm to the state than good.
  • bossm4n, on 07/17/2009, -3/+8@rocknog - I really wouldn't expect someone from Minnesota to understand. The closest thing to an illegal immigrant you'll ever see if some Canadian family on vacation headed to Mall of the Americas. You throw around those insults pretty easy tough guy. Too bad you're not only an internet coward, you also have no clue regarding the topic.

    This not only about illegals from Mexico and Central America, but they obviously represent the majority of the problem. Have you ever pulled into a drive through to order a meal in a US city and have the person working there greet you in a language other than English? And I'm not talking about some fringe restaurant, I'm talking about a major chain. And heaven forbid you visit a southern border town--it's resembles more of a third world country than it does the US.

    Why does it matter you ask. Because English is the first and primary language in this country. However, the cowards in Congress have felt the need to pander and bow down to special interest groups like LULAC for the last few decades. The result--we have to spend taxpayer dollars to hire Spanish speaking teachers and build schools to cater to those too lazy to learn English. I couldn't care less what people look and act like. Your strawman argument about going to a foreign country and sticking out like a sore thumb is ridiculous and moot. If I travel to a foreign country, it is MY responsibility to be able to communicate with the people in that country. I don't go there expecting everyone to speak my native language, but this is the pandering that has become the norm in this country for certain groups.

    I am fervently pro-immigration, but I am anti-illegal immigration. Perhaps you didn't catch that part of my first reply or you were blinded by your own stupidity to understand that. I am all for people who wish to live in this country and contribute, just as immigrants did 100+ years ago like Blinker mentioned. In fact, I would prefer the process be made much simpler. But I will never support people of any nationality who wish to enter this country illegally, take advantage of our healthcare system, earn a living without paying taxes of any kind, send that money home to their country of origin, and generally do nothing to take steps toward supporting this country or living as an American, much less ever think about becoming a citizen. For those who want to come here and consider themselves Americans, the welcome mat is out. For those who come here illegally and want to take advantage of all this country has to offer while criticizing it, GTFO.

    Do everyone a favor and educate yourself on topics or get some perspective before you go around attacking people with your insulting rhetoric.
  • netant, on 07/17/2009, -1/+5Silly, only the lazy try to fake an SSN number. Most forgers are paying off hackers for those huge personal data thefts from stores and credit card companies. Not just you get the SSN, you get the name, address, mother's maiden name, DOB, etc.

    As for taking pity on the poor, poor employer pitch, look who's writing it: The Wall Street Journal. This is how the rich get the non-rich to pay for their taxes, subsidize their business dealing with taxpayer dollars, and die for their oil/weapons profits. There are no poor people editing the NYT, WP, Chicago Tribune, LAT, etc.
  • ghatid, on 07/17/2009, -0/+4They have real social security numbers, so in the background check everything is fine. What I don't understand is how we always hear stories about how hundreds of people share the same social security number. Shouldn't something pop up in a computer somewhere when someone decides to work 300 jobs? I would expect the IRS would be the best at catching this fraud, but maybe they aren't being taxed enough for the IRS to notice...
  • mollydog12, on 07/17/2009, -1/+5sort of undermines ? see california.
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