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322 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -22/+269The steady, unsustainable build-up of the federal government is quickly nearing its own tipping point. We can choose to accept the loss of personal liberties, overwhelming debt, and succumb to corporate servants who masquerade as public servants or we can re-examine our constitutional roots and restore our freedoms.
- Zarxrax, on 10/12/2007, -20/+161This is not about the war. They have been taxing the hell out of us for YEARS, well before 9/11.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -49/+123Half the government's expenses is the war machine, instead of useful stuff like building roads, exploring space, funding schools, doing science, keeping the law, and providing for a decent social safety net. And the rest is as a consequence done real shabby.
The US government is raking in money for other reasons that provide for all its citizens. I wonder, what are the other reasons? - repins, on 10/12/2007, -17/+80@DAGONthehauge you might want to check your numbers again, military spending is only about 20% of the total Federal Budget. You need to look at the whole picture not just discretionary spending, the spending required by law is where the budget it growing exponentially.
- SandorClegane, on 10/12/2007, -24/+81Dugg. Everyone needs to know this! Lower spending + lower taxes = more prosperous economy = more freedom.
Ron Paul 2008! Vote for liberty! - Zarxrax, on 10/12/2007, -7/+58"If the US had a decent wellfare system, it wouldn't need prisons for several MILLION people."
If the US didn't have the war on drugs, it wouldn't need prisons for several MILLION people. - lostboy, on 10/12/2007, -55/+98it's kind of inappropriate to use the word slavery to describe the above. You Americans have no idea how good you have it, I am constantly amazed at how much you lucky sods can complain about being well off.
I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about taxes because you have it good, you completely have the right. However *NEVER* compare it to slavery. That is pretty insulting considering your countries history.
I'm from the UK where we have taxes that are absolutely dreadful, much worse than the US. However our comparative standard of living is extremely high. If you look at European countries with high levels of taxes they also have high standards of living, Who would have thunk it?!
You guys could have forgiven Clinton when he was in office, considering the job he was doing if you were asked now Bush or Bill, what would you say.
You've made your mistakes, live with them. Do the right thing and don't vote in another Republican president. If you think the democrats are no better then vote for a third party. - teadrinker, on 10/12/2007, -10/+50~$ 11,000,000,000,000 : Social security liability (actually estimated between 4 and 20 trillion depending on when the money is set aside)
sources:
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_hassett/hassett200504040843.asp
http://www.cato.org/pubs/ssps/ssp7.html
add about as much for medicare, and you have a financial nightmare that the war can not come close to matching. The war does not help either....plus all those other aspect of war that are not nice as well. But to try to say that stopping the war will fix all financial problems is silly. - Numarx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+43We also pay the interest, which comes out to be around 800 billion a year to a private company called the Federal Reserve. That comes from income tax 8)
- dmonkey1001, on 10/12/2007, -9/+46@GawtMilk
"If you don't like America, leave."
Last time I checked the point is that American's are free to disagree, and free to try and change things. Telling people that disagree to leave is the most un-American things you can do. - lifeandtimes, on 10/12/2007, -10/+44Universal health care is a sham. In "civilized countries" that have single payer health care people die on waiting lists. If they don't die they can spend many months to a few years waiting for surgery. This doesn't happen in America. Why? Competition. If you want universal health care, than be prepared to have taxes raised, because there is no way the government could possibly pay for such a system at current levels. Think Iraq war spending is out of control? Just wait till the government has to pay for the health care costs of the three hundred or so million people living in the US.
So, if we do get universal health care, and I have to have a knee replacement...well, I'm sure I'll be thinking nice, warm, fuzzy thoughts of people like you while I wait two years for the surgery. Oh, and don't argue with me about the people who cannot afford health care. I'm not going to sacrifice my health, just so someone who can't afford it can have it in my stead. I don't mind having some of my tax money go to the health care of those who TRULY cannot afford it, but I'll be damned if I'll let the government tell me when I can get my own health care.
The glorious example of "civilized countries'" universal health care systems: http://www.onthefencefilms.com/movies.html - gallagherFTW, on 10/12/2007, -8/+39"~$ 360,000,000,000 : Iraq War"
If you're implying something about conservatives causing that spending b/c of the "liberals" comment by antifederalist, you don't really know what a true conservative is. Now if you're referring to the Republican party, which has skewed far from the Conservative party, you would be correct sir.
BTW: Ron Paul for President. He would fix this. - thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -8/+39If the US government would stop trying to be a ***** nanny, the WORLD would be a better place.
- regedit2D, on 10/12/2007, -9/+39I grew up in poverty and remained uneducated most of my young life. Are you trying to say that people like me only end up in prison?
Think before you speak. - spyd3rweb, on 10/12/2007, -11/+40@GawtMilk you ever leave your air conditioned prison cell? do you even know what freedom is? hell do you even know what America is.
"If you don't like America, leave."
I hate to break it to you, but it seems like YOU are the one not liking what America is. In America dissent is a good thing. Im sorry you hate dissent and free speech so much. - Pseudorious, on 10/12/2007, -20/+49Digg is a little California. Diggers vote down all political views except for democratic socialism, then get sticker shock.
- dfdemar, on 10/12/2007, -17/+44It's not the government's job to educate your children.
And we have millions of people in prison because of our draconian drug laws, not because we aren't giving away enough "free" money. - WZot, on 10/12/2007, -11/+31Just stop complaining about the tax level, would ya? I live in a country where we pay a 24% VAT on everything we buy...in addition to an insanely high tax level on income aswell. If you earn more than $50,000 here about 60% of your income (+VAT on stuff you buy) goes back to the state... So there...
- jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22@sizsam
I found this on Canada's health care system a few days ago:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006813
Imagine, having to sue all the way up to the Supreme Court just to get decent health care. Of course that was two years ago, and there have been improvements, but do you really want to go that route?
But I'm with you on ending the killing. So much waste, death, and destruction. All for no reason. - omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -31/+49@DAGONthehauge: "Half the government's expenses is the war machine, instead of useful stuff like building roads, exploring space, funding schools, doing science, keeping the law, and providing for a decent social safety net"
This is circular logic, and here's why:
People have grown to rely on the government for everything. This started with the Department of Education, when people decided that the government should be in charge of teaching their children instead of them. Now we have the government telling our kids what they're supposed to think.
Space is a great way to reinvigorate some of the population, but what are the real gains for the government? At best, they're funding the hope that space exploration will give them more power or money. If that doesn't happen, then the funding is gone.
The government stayed out of science for most of history, and everything seemed to turn out just fine. The question shouldn't be "why isn't the government funding scientific research?" but rather "why should the government be funding scientific research?".
Just about the only thing the government SHOULD be doing is making, then enforcing laws. Hell, every time it tries to do something else, it ***** up. You know the old adage... "Only a retard tries the same thing over and over and expects different results."
As far as the social safety net, that's just code for "welfare" and "social security". Bang up job there. I'm sure I'll be able to retire well on Social Security... especially if I get fired or laid-off and collect Welfare for a few years. I'll be able to own a 1986 Trailer, and maybe a color TV! At what point do people stop seeing these things are a "social safety net" and start seeing them for what they are: an effective method for buying votes (and a pyramid scheme)? - h2gofast, on 10/12/2007, -11/+28The average digger doesn't pay taxes from mom's basement or the college dorm room, so why would they get a story like this. More hotpockets Mom.
- vampiregabe, on 10/12/2007, -11/+28Wrong. The Federal Reserve holds used T-bills/bonds, and buys/sells them on the open market. The Fed is prohibited from purchasing NEW bonds issued from the Treasury. The Treasury issues bond ON ORDERS from Congress.
Also did you know the Fed is the ONLY governmental organization that makes a profit? Member banks are allowed a flat-rate 6% profit as SET BY CONGRESS.
Want to know where the rest of the unclaimed profit goes since the Fed is UNABLE TO USE IT? It goes back to the Treasury, who then spends it.
Please stop blaming the Fed for all the "problems" in this country, when the FAR MAJORITY of the monetary problems lie on the doorstep of the Congress.
Get your facts straight or show some actual real numbers published by the Fed showing how much money the member banks pocket. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21False argument. Just because other places are worse doesn't mean taxes in the US aren't too high nor does it mean they have the option of the status quo or worse.
- Aggaman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22Yeah, but Sweden is a much better place to live. And the chicks are hotter too. American women have trouble fitting into phone booths.
- dizzledaking, on 10/12/2007, -9/+25Holy crap, it's just a percentage. You need a GRAPH for that? Here:
xxxx000000
The x's are your workday dedicated to paying taxes. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+31rofl, good, digg me down but dont actually respond to me.
YOURE YELLING ABOUT TAXES HERE, AND THEN YOU BITCH ABOUT BUSHES TAX BREAKS THE NEXT DAY.
WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID? - thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20@gallagher
Yeah, because we all know that the president alone sets the budget.... and no one ever appends pet projects or sneaks in new laws....
The only way to fix this it to get rid of all the career politicians and start fresh at the ballot box. Other than that, we're stuck in this *****.
Make appearance of inpropriety highly difficult for the person to stay in office...
Make real inproprienty punishible by jail and forfeiture of all government pensions, perks, etc....
And quit sending people to rehab as an escape of real payment of debt to society. - omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21@geoken: Just because the government isn't doing something doesn't mean it isn't getting done.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22Is it any wonder we all feel like we can't keep up on the treadmill ?
Can anyone find a graph on taxes paid as a percentage of workday by year? - teadrinker, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23Spending billions to wage pointless wars is a stupid idea, especially if you do not accomplish much. Having universal health care in the US is an ethical idea, which will cost trillions, but will also fail.
But let's say we try to have universal health care. Then why don't states implement it individually? Why wait for the huge federal government to move? - drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16The War on Drugs has been one of the biggest failures in US history. We spend billions on prisons, law enforcement, surveillance, etc.
We spend money to put 30 people in jail so that we don't have to put 5 people in jail. How ***** stupid is that? - cvindustries, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I don't think you understand the US' progressive tax system.
- twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13The Federal Reserve is no more "Federal" than Federal Express is...
- spyd3rweb, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18the fed was declared a private corporation by the supreme court, look it up. the only governmental tie is the board of directors which are installed by the president, but the candidates are picked by the fed itself. god i hate ignorant /d/iggtards.
- Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17@Dagonthehague
Military protection is the primary role of the federal government. They aren't supposed to be involved in social programs, police, healthcare, etc. Some of these things are the states' responsibilities, and some of them don't belong in the realm of government at all. - iainwall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13You have it easy! In the UK, we have to work for 6 months, AND everything is more expensive...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Dont spend what you dont have....do this and a ***** of your problems will be solved!
- rousehouse, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16US government spending on health care versus Canadian spending on health care, from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_economies_compared
"The greatest difference in social programs is in health care. Contrary to popular belief, the U.S. Government spends as much on health care, 7% of GDP, as the Canadian government does, and total healthcare spending is much higher - 14.6% of GDP in the US vs. 10% in Canada. Canadians, however, receive comparable care and most figures such as life expectancy and infant mortality are better in Canada. Another advantage is that the Canadian health care system is also very attractive to employers, as in Canada health care is mostly paid through employee income taxes, while in the United States most companies have to extend health benefits to full-time employees, something they do not have to do in Canada. The main disadvantage of the Canadian system are the long lines and waiting periods that have appeared over the last 15 years, especially for minor and non-life threatening procedures. For this reason, some relatively wealthy Canadians go to the United States, India, or other nations to avoid waiting for medical treatment, joining "medical tourists" from many nations, including the US. Despite these problems, Canada's healthcare performance is regularly as good as or better than that of the US system in major comprehensive comparisons." - NJank, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12wow. no one here actually understood what he requested? He wants to see the HISTORICAL TREND of the number claimed in the summary. has the number of hours per day gone up over the years, and if so, by how much? This year it's 3:43 per day. what was it last year? the year before? 20 years ago? what would that look like plotted on a graph of % vs time?
It was an intelligent request. Can someone intelligent provide the answer, or a link to raw historical data?
Also, it would be interesting to see other comparative items next to that trend. (nat'l debt, nat'l budget deficit, GDP, some measure of gov't benefits received, etc.)
(EDIT: a little slow on my part, but well played Toast) - Corrosionx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13We tried socialism in Quebec. Results: our services suck and tax freedom day is around June 27th
- Heavy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Only 3 months.... in sweden we work 7 months..
- gurra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Yep, you Americans can consider yourself lucky. We celebrate our Tax Freedom Day eight of August here in Sweden.
- liamfly, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18They're a little confused. They say their socialist usually, which would mean much higher taxes to pay for all the government programs. Yet they complain about taxes? They simply love to hate America with their one-track minds.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12From wikipee:
"(4) numerous private member banks, which own varying amounts of stock in the regional Federal Reserve Banks."
"The Federal Reserve Banks are owned by private member banks (see below). Each member bank owns nonnegotiable shares of stock in its regional Federal Reserve Bank; see below)."
"The member banks are privately owned corporations. The stocks of many of the member banks are publicly traded." - enki25, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11As long as we have a government we'll have taxes. The best we can hope for is to be able to elect legislators that spread the burden fairly (among the rich and poor) and then spend the money they get on useful things. Personally, I think there should be more investment in our infrastructure, and fewer bricks of $100 bills for military contractors to play football with.
- audiowizard, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13yeah you don't HAVE to work....
....so now that that's clear, let's look at this from the matured perspective. You have virtually no control of how that money is allocated to your society. How does that feel guy who opposes welfare? What about you lady who's against the war? And you parents with children in underfunded schools?
Make your gov't work for you, don't work for it. The preceeding statement doesn't apply to lazy welfare recipients. You need to get your asses to work, lazy bums. - repins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10That chart is very misleading, it only include discretionary spending not the entire Federal Budget
Check here for a better look at the Total Federal 2004 budget
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/2004-outlays-summary.php - Square47, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12It isn't completely a tax problem we have here in America...we have a "lack of saving" epidemic. Too many idiots live paycheck to paycheck. Rampant consumerism is what makes people struggle in America. Most households don't do any kind of budget (while almost every business does). If people would just learn to live off of less than they make...they wouldn't have to freak out about revolting against the government just because your cost of gas has raised your expenses $100 a month. In short, the lack of responsibility of most Americans has to do more with their financial struggles in our country than the overall tax structure. Dems vs. Repubs has little to do with it. They just waste money on different things.
- josh85, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@lifeandtimes
Are you purposefully trying to confuse people between Universal Health Care and Single-Payer health care? You are aware that there is a difference, right? Single-payer health care is a specific type of Universal Health Care.
In Australia, we have Universal health care, yet we still have private hospitals and private health insurance. If I required knee surgery, I wouldn't have to wait two years to have surgery, and I wouldn't have to sacrifice my health so that poorer people can also have health care. I have private health insurance, so I could have the surgery done immediately at a private hospital of my choice. Waiting lists only apply to those who can't afford private health insurance and rely on the public health system. But I have to say that being put on a waiting list is better than not being able to have the surgery at all.
If you don't like Single-payer health care, then that's fine. I don't like it either. But please don't use it as an excuse for not wanting Universal Health Care. - BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9When asking for numbers from the Federal Reserve, please make sure that the organization is audited. Unfortunately it isn't. FED is accountable to no one except itself. Board meetings are kept secret and the budgets are guesstimated based on central bank's interest rate. Nobody actually knows what happens behind the close doors of this private organization's board meetings.
The fact that the article doesn't even mention the FED interest makes me wonder whether any of the money they mention going towards services actually goes there or whether it's one big steamy pile of B.S.
Also, the interest payment does not have to be direct. We tax foreign governments through inflation of our currency, not through some paper that we send every year to, let's say, China, that asks them to declare income and pay the bills. Interest on the Federal Debt comes in the form of inflation - fluctuation of the money supply and the interest rates on properties owned by the big banks.
This is how the system works.
Country goes to war to acquire new lands. Government borrows from the bank to finance the war. Government captures the land. Government sells the land to the people in order to pay back part of the debt. Majority of people borrow from the bank in order to buy the land. The money from the bank goes to the person, to the government, back to the bank. The interest is collected. Some people fail to finalize the purchase through inability to pay the interest. The land goes to the bank and then the fun part begins.
Bank now has the money they invested into the war and the property that was captured in the process. It can put incentive on borrowing by lowering the interest rates, making people confident in the monetary supply, and then, periodically, when the demand has built up, jacking the interests, calling in the loans forcing people to go default and recollecting money and the land. Playing this stupid game where people always loose and the bank always wins.
FED is the bank, and the owner of pretty much everything. Government is the dealer of hope and people are the sheep, the slaves, whatever you call them. -
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