What is Digg?597 Comments
- smackywentz, on 10/11/2007, -22/+244I get tired of the same old line, protest or do some activism. That ***** doesn't work, you can't revolt and have a life outside of it at the same time. You have to commit to it. If you are truly serious about fixing all the wrongs that have been done, you have got to commit to it. It is imperative that we come together and smoke these ***** out. We can't stay distracted by everyday *****, because soon everyday ***** is going to be eyes to the ground, living in fear. I won't live that way. If someone would just join me we could start it. Who will join me?
- Arcesius, on 10/11/2007, -23/+209I recall reading a comment on how the submitter should always make the first post. So, voila! I hope you find this piece worthwhile.
And, if you're at all in accord with what the author says, check out this site he links to on the second page - www.foavc.org - SteelFrog, on 10/11/2007, -19/+181Where's "V" when you need him?
- Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -11/+167The problem is...
- The remaining 28% who still support the government include the upper 1% with all the money
- Most Americans are too apathetic to vote, let alone revolt
- Most are too distracted watching American Idol, (un)reality shows and the latest on Paris Hilton
- Back in the Revolutionary War days, Americans were generally physically fit and all had guns. Today: not so much
- Diggers too busy bitching online about grammar and how America is really a republic than a democracy
- Most are sincerely troubled with personal problems such as debt, raising kids, or facing discrimination (gays especially) to worry about the country
The problem is there is no one problem. It's problemS. - Arcesius, on 10/11/2007, -15/+132@ smackywentz
Damn. You've seriously got me wondering if I'm up to the task. I'm not about the whole violent upheaval thing, but I would consider using Gandhi's whole satyagraha system as a model. Concerning dropping everything else in my life to do it, honestly (and I hate myself for owning up to this), but I don't think I'm willing to do an all or nothing kind of thing. Although, I totally see your point, and would have to agree. Perhaps I'm just too comfortable with things =/. I think I might have to give myself some lashes, as well =(.
And, if you start coming after me for being a pussy.... good! Maybe you can stir something in me. - Homunculiheaded, on 10/11/2007, -6/+122People need to understand more about the structure of revolt to seriously assess that as an option. For the most part it’s a simple cost benefit analysis, what am I risking versus what do I stand to gain AND what is the likelihood that my risk will actually yield me higher returns that I am currently enjoying.
Here’s the basic structure of how things work, the upper class never usually gives crap (maybe lip service) because they obviously have the most to loose and almost nothing to gain by societal restructuring. I mean what’s the best that could happen they remain more upper class?
The middle class has something to gain, but has comfort and relative stability to lose. Stability is a big deal, our basic survival instincts say ‘hey if things are okay you’re surviving and that’s good’. The interesting thing is that the middle class enjoys enough leisure time, education and additional resources that they control the discourse of revolt. (i.e. it’s not low income workers with blogs about class structure and revolt) The lower classes, having much more to gain, don’t actually have a voices of their own but the middle class acts as their speaker, however the middle class can never really have truly represent another class, and in the end renders the lower class as merely an object in conversation.
The lower classes spend most of their energy attempting to survive and really don’t have time, energy or education to actually assess their situation or the current class structure.
Revolt only happens in situations of extreme desperation, or when members of a competing upper class have enough incentive to attempt to overthrow the current ruling class. - ExSlashdotter, on 10/11/2007, -19/+116@oxbad
I logged in just to digg your comment down. If you seriously believe that, then might i interest you in some magic beans?
The system is so far past gone, substituting a few players won't change the game at all. - smackywentz, on 10/11/2007, -14/+100Arcesius
I won't come at you for being a pussy. Everyday I doubt myself as well. And everyday I have to remind myself that evil prevails when good men fail to act. I'm not looking to do it all in a day as per your comment below, I'm just looking to start. Just a meeting once a week, you know making plans about making others aware. Anything! I am just so tired of writing about it, I want to get out there and do something. My biggest fear is looking back when I'm forty at what the world has become and knowing I could have changed things and left my children with a better world than the one I was born into. I have plenty of ideas, but I fear everyone is like yourself, I'm guilty of it at times myself, and in the end no one will have joined me. I'm glad I got a rise out of someone though. At least you though about it, seriously thought about actually doing something. - cyrus6, on 10/11/2007, -13/+92@smackywentz
" . . . smoke these ***** out."
I'm on board. Time to mobilize. - tepidpond, on 10/11/2007, -13/+83Wish I had a dozen diggs to give ya; frighteningly accurate.
I'm going to go play World of Warcraft now, I hope I don't lose another Constitutionally-guaranteed right in the next 18 hours. - Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -14/+73Seems like now is the perfect time to revolt. Nearly all the troops are overseas, so much so that the American government is hiring mercs from other countries. They wouldn't have the army power to stand down a French Revolution-esque crowd demanding heads to roll.
- supimscott, on 10/11/2007, -12/+65I think your right to be a sedentary fatass drain on society will be well protected.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+40I have been saying this for the past 5 years but nobody listens. The problem is NOT the Democrats...and its NOT the Republicans...its CAREER POLITICIANS !!!
Vote OUT anybody that is currently in office !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vote out ALL incumbants !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You get rid of the career politicians and you get rid of 95% of all of the problems that plague Washington DC - mb96net, on 10/11/2007, -5/+40@smackywentz and Arcesius
Careful guys (and/or girls), the secret police (aka FBI/CIA) are doing a lot of data mining today and although I've never been one of the tinfoil hat types, with the current administration I wouldn't be surprised if you're now on a terror watch list after your posts. - MWeather, on 10/11/2007, -7/+40"I would like him to clarify how it is possible for me to a poor member of the repressed lower class, yet I do not notice my repression because I am spending tons of money filling my SUV with materialism"
Simple: Predatory lenders. - Arcesius, on 10/11/2007, -6/+38@smackywentz
wow! that's an awesome post!
I'm totally willing to go to meetings. Any way we can get in contact again after this thread is dead? This is pretty much what I wanted; to get in touch with a few other people who are of the same mindset. Maybe send something through Gtalk?
@ ubuwalker31
yeah... that's pretty much the idea I have in mind... just get organized... there seem to be enough people... we just need to get together =)... - mediaspree, on 10/11/2007, -25/+57@ 0xbaadf00d
This is a democratic republic. If you want things to change write your congressman. - faithhealer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+35A constitutional convention will not solve our problems. We'll end up with stupid knee-jerk amendments like:
1. No flag burning
2. No gay marriage
3. Rollback of rights for those accused of crimes (in the name of a "victims bill of rights")
And corporate ownership of the politicians will continue. - Arcesius, on 10/11/2007, -8/+36I don't think you can consider what I did as spamming. Read the thread. I made a few comments, someone made a comment "I digg Arcesius.", and I followed up by saying that if they're at all interested in what I was saying, they could check out a RELEVANT article I submitted.
- Arch77, on 10/11/2007, -4/+31I agree that something needs to be done with regard to the Democrat Senate that was voted in as a direct result of an outcry against the Iraq war. So what did they do? They approved more funding for the war!!! They directly spit on the American people that voted them in to change the course of the war. Politicians must be made to understand that they are voted in by the people to do what the people want -- nothing more, nothing less. Any politician that betrays the people's trust must be ousted.
The recent poor showing of the Democrats shows that both sides (Reps and Dems) are not looking out for the people's interests. The people must tell Government that we have given you permission to rule us on account of you adhering to your will. If you continue to disobey us and look out for private interest groups, we shall cast you aside like a dirty diaper! - ask03, on 10/11/2007, -4/+31"something has been lost from our political DNA"
It's called Public education and government assistance programs. When we are so dependent on the government for all of our needs, how could we survive without it. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -8/+34there are two methods of change: revolt AND reform. As is the case with all history, it is always a mix of the two, in some instances more revolt (the october revolution in russia for example) and on the other hand, the French revolution (more reform than violent revolt).
Problem with reform here is that it takes money to control the "democratic" system. Some revolt (overt resitance, or just anything assertive) is needed to kickstart succesful reforms (no red tape was up when the french revolted to began their reforms to democracy and abolishment of fuedalism). - preban, on 10/11/2007, -1/+27No country with HDTV's is going to rise up in revolt over anything.
Except maybe air-conditioning. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+25WE OWE IT TO THE FOUNDERS AND DEAD SOLDIERS OF THIS COUNTRY TO REVOLT! Our comfort will become our greatest pain.
- ownwonnow, on 10/11/2007, -2/+27@purpledrink
lol, French Revolution more of a reform than a violent revolt?!? That must be why they refer to that period as the "Reign of Terror". Seriously, they violently overthrew their government, and executed the nobility and royal sympathisers in order to establish a completely different form of government. It was intended to be complete class upheaval - it didn't exactly work out that way in the end, but that was supposedly the heart of the movement. They called everyone "citizen" because they eliminated formal titles.
If that's your idea of reform, I suppose you think a guy like Hitler was more of a revolutionary. - jll3sonex, on 10/11/2007, -7/+31Smackywentz -
Just maybe things aren't as crappy as you perceive them. That so many people can be disssatisfed with the government is a GOOD thing, because it means people are paying attention - but that they're willing to work within the system is VERY important, because you don't want an event where you toss out the old bastards only to end up with new ones. And as much as we may bitch, our government's got a real light hand compared to the USSR or others, primarily BECAUSE the old bastards know they're only going to be in office a few years, so they've got to get the people's approval, or at least their acquiesence.
Take a look at this Amnesty bill - Dems and Repubs both tried to shove it down, and it came right back up on them, because the people wouldn't stand for it. We DO have a voice when they get out of line - though we may not agree where that line might be sometimes.
But beware of 'revolutions' - they sound damn romantic, and the folks calling for them always seem to figure they'll be the ones in the driver's seat. However - "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" sure seems to be the end of all the revolutions in the 20th century. - dictum, on 10/11/2007, -2/+24Boston Oil Party
- SecondGuesser, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21Americans don't want to revolt because even the poor are better off than they would be in a time of revolution - especially a violent one. Open elections give people the perception that they can evolve the system from within. But at the end of the day, they end up voting for one of two millionaires.
The solution is to take a lot of the money out of politics. Allow only individual or household donations, cap the donation per individual or household, and ban PACs and 527s. When it costs $100 million to run for President, something's wrong with Democracy. My whole neighborhood couldn't afford to run for president. - ubuwalker31, on 10/11/2007, -9/+29@Arcesius
I'm confused by the argument presented by this author. The text of the constitution states that "....on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments...." The author then states that every state legislature has requested a convention. The author reaches this convoluted conclusion by lumping these requests together, even though these calls for conventions were made for different issues, different amendments, and, most importantly, at vastly different times. Not to mention that most of these requests were made by small groups of state legislators, and not made by a vote of the legislatures as a whole.
Yet another group of wing-nuts railing about something which they have no understanding.
If this group wants to do something worthwhile, they should lobby members of their state legislature to call for a constitutional convention to get rid of this president and to restrict the power of the presidency from waging unjust wars. A nationwide, co-ordinated effort to call a constitutional convention in this manner under Article 5 would be well worth it, and would be viewed as legitimate. Attempting to argue that this vote already occurred...is pure quackery. - mdkoch84, on 10/11/2007, -1/+20If you truly want to see change, one of the best ways is to live by example. Start off small, get involved locally, network with like minded people, join political or social discussion groups, write your congressperson, BECOME INFORMED, simply talk to people and get them thinking more critically about these important issues. As you get more and more involved, you'll start to realize how effective you truly can be. I have personally been an activist for about 2 years now (I'm 22), and it is not an easy thing to get into.
One of the biggest hurdles I've noticed in the US is that everyone is distracted from the real issues, be it by Paris Hilton or the World Series or Computer Games, so many Americans have some hobby that keeps them complacent. Getting them to see through these distractions is extremely hard.
However, I think if you love the place you live in, whether its America or Iran, you should stand up for what you believe in no matter the consequences, as long as it is in a peaceful manner. I know I'd rather wake up 40 years from now and know I stood up to the evils in the world, then be silent in fear because the gov't might come after me or what someone will think of me. - heffae, on 10/11/2007, -1/+20@Homunculiheaded
You are dead on Revolutions are triggered by the upper middle class. They have the resources and time to revolt and yet still have something to gain. Look at the American Revolution. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Jefferson, etc. They were among the wealthy in the colonies yet not the upper class since they were not Royalty. Same with the French Revolution. It was really a revolt against the monarchy by the middle class on behalf of the lower class. The middle class does need the support of the lower class because a revolution needs large numbers of people be it violent or non-violent. - dracostimpy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19The first thing any of us should do is try to befriend the county sheriff and get him/her to understand where we're coming from; we don't hate America or wish to destroy it, but we DEMAND that our leaders do our bidding. Now that congress has shown a repeated pattern of ignoring the voters' mandates, we no longer recognize their authority. The reason county sheriffs are important is they have supreme law enforcement authority over the county, to the point that they can even order federal agents to stand down and/or GTFO of their county: http://www.rangemagazine.com/archives/stories/winter03/badge-v-badge.htm
The sheriff would be an invaluable ally to a civil disobedient or tax resister like Ed Brown, and if they're not willing to stick up for you, it's a lot easier to vote out a sheriff than a senator. Therefore, I suggest to those of you who are truly interested in getting active that a good start would be to contact your sheriff to see if he/she is the sort that will stand up to the Feds or relinquish their authority in a heartbeat like that douchebag in New Orleans. If the former, make sure they understand in advance what your purposes are if you intend to engage in civil disobedience and ask for their support, but if they don't agree with you then make sure you tell them the alternative is directing your energy to replacing them in the next election.
It's probably too late to convince our corporate-sponsored congress to serve us, but we can still protect ourselves from Big Brother's oppressive hand if only we get the county sheriffs on our side. - healthydose, on 10/11/2007, -8/+26Dugg down for completely ignoring the validity of the article. I could really care less how it was linked. I am though, thoroughly intrigued with the unfortunate veracity of it's claims. You, quite sadly seem to confirm what the article decries. This election gives us the opportunity of changing our nation or seeing it steadily and rapidly slide into complete Fascism
- jetfuel, on 10/11/2007, -5/+22I'm kind of scared for the future. Not all the ***** the government is feeding us, but I'm scared for what will happen if people still won't do anything. It's almost like the population doesn't want to know that everything is going to hell, instead they focus on other crap like Paris Hilton. And here we are, always talking about doing something about it, but it usually stops at emails, if that. We should really do something, and do something soon; the current administration still has about a year and a half left.
- 2012, on 10/11/2007, -5/+23"And it is visceral pain that must drive people to the daring act of rebellion."
Why don't we feel the pain? Maybe because we are so completely distracted by the paris hilton's, the anna nicole smith's, and the brittany spears that mainstream news media is so intent on cramming down our throats. It almost seems like we have been handed a plate of hot steamy crap. The authorities tell us that it is caviar and we eat it and get sick. But we believe that it is caviar because the authorities told us so.
Visceral is an interesting word. I read the statement, "And it is visceral pain that must drive people to the daring act of rebellion.", several times just to let it sink in. Visceral: 4. characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect: a visceral reaction. I guess that is why it disturbs me. I don't want to react from instinct. I want to react from intellect. But maybe the time for that kind of reaction is now past.
This is a good article. It can't be skimmed through or read just once. Thanks for posting this. - UrbanVoyeur, on 10/11/2007, -1/+18"all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~ CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776 - Johann4u, on 10/11/2007, -10/+27@ REM333
Buried for bein a jackass.
Very poignant article. Wheels are in motion. - Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19Bread & Circus. Just like the Romans...
(Well, to modernize, McDonalds & American Idol).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses - jason469, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16Too many people want the government to intercept into their day to day lives. I blame a lot of the so-called 'parents' of today, they want schools to baby-sit their children, they get offended if their child is going to be left back a grade (that's why the No Child Left Behind act started), they cry about whatever is on TV or CD's.
Parents are not the only ones to blame though, people in general now want the government to do everything and anything for them, so I have to ask when did the government become everyone's crutch?
We need to stop depending so much on the government, and we need to remind the government that they work for us, they shouldn't be able to control our every move!!! - drogo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16It's always been 'illegal'.
But you only get in trouble if you fail. ;-) - BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17Yawn, the revolution will not be televised, but it will be spammed about incessantly on the net to no end.
- JamieBarrows, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18French revolution model huh..
I Think it went like this.
Step 1: Kill the rich people in charge.
Step 2: Take their money and power.
Step 3: Repeat steps 1 and 2 with new leaders as many time as necessary to destroy nation.
Step 4: Put dictator with absolute power in charge.
Oh yeah, that was a great model. Something we can all get behind. NOT If that is your solution, count me out. - Run4ny, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18@mediaspree
No, this is a full-blown imperialistic Fascist state. Whatever form of the Republic we had left died on September 11th. - jd33, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15@Smacky:
*****, I'm down, and I live in Canada. - dpds, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Damnit. If only our revolution could be legal, like all the other ones through history.
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17And the revolutionaries will continue to vote in guys who will take away their guns, and never notice the irony.
- MrKrinkleDude, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18At the risk of getting stormed by a paramilitary SWAT unit or triggering an airstrike on my house, I'm just dandy with a second revolution. All someone needs to do is give the word.
- anthj79, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17Fact is, America IS in revolt. Just look at these comments, as well as on numerous other places. Just because it's not to the magnitude that the author would like to see it, or in the fashion that the author would want it, doesn't make it void. I'm doing what I can to make a difference for the better, and so is everyone else that I know. Don't call us complacent, just because you don't see it.
- mdkoch84, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15@gard
Its not that OUR lives necessarily suck in the US, but that doesnt mean that OTHER peoples lives in the US do suck. You need to wake up from your obviously priveledged life and see the suffering that is going even inside our own borders, not too mention all over the world. But for some reason I picture you as one of those stereotypical materialistic Americans that try and avoid the poor and downtrodden all together.
Am I correct? - jll3sonex, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17@spidur1 -
You asked "If we overthrow the gov't, what do we replace it with?"
A lot of folks seem to really like the movie 'V'. My thought was - "What happened AFTER the movie?" Congrats - you just overthrew the government. How are you going to get millions of people to work together to make a better, kinder, more (fill in the blank for your pet cause) system? You might be able to get them to revolt, but that's combining against a common enemy. How do you get them to work together for a common good when there's no enemy to provide cohesion?
With luck, you have the American Revolution. Without luck, you get the USSR, which was only marginally better (and in a lot of cases worse) than the Tzars.
It's really easy, as well as simple, to point at the rough spots in our current system and demand the entire system be scrapped because of them. There have always been rough spots - there always will be. But we've ground down a number of rough spots already (Civil war, slavery, Prohibition) and can grind down others.
Personally, I'm thinking term limits would be a good thing, as well as clearing out the entrenched bureaucracy in Washington every 5 to 10 years. -
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