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5 Myths About Sick Old Europe

washingtonpost.com — In the global economy, today's winners can become tomorrow's losers in a twinkling, and vice versa. Not so long ago, American pundits and economic analysts were snidely touting U.S. economic superiority to the "sick old man" of Europe. What a difference a few months can make.

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  • chicofaraby, on 10/10/2007, -26/+84Yeah, the American right wing was wrong.

    Again.

    As usual.
    • edenseager, on 10/10/2007, -7/+17Right wing... WRONG?!
    • floorman56, on 10/10/2007, -13/+5Good we can close all our bases there and stop putting so much money into NATO and bring our people home and the "old man" can take care of his own defense.
      • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Defence? The US gubbermint was raiding for oil & votes - not as a gesture to protect European nations.
      • gummih, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2NATO was designed by the US for the protection of US interests.
      • floorman56, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Then lets leave....and watch what happens
      • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1In Europe we're already seeing through the irrational fear of terror. So what if 3000 people die every decade or so. That's not worth spending billions of Euro's on to maintain an army in a false war. We'd rather save many more thousands of lifes every YEAR of that decade through proper health care, education and welfare. Shocking, ain't it? We -care- for people instead of -slay- them abroad. We invest money into our children, giving them -proper- educations, instead of bombing children abroad.

        Also, we got the Pirate Bay.
        So there.
    • ramiro, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Idiots, this has nothing to do with right wing.
    • brotherfranciz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Link to article on one page: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
    • lOvOl, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Short term projections are irrelevant. Many European nations have serious demographic problems that are practically unfixable at this point. The continent has simply stopped having children and therefore given up on its long-term future. Of course Europe is hardly alone in this phenomenon where their two bad options for dealing with the problem is to either continually allow the population to decline (and therefore their economy and ability to field troops to defend themselves), or else import more immigrants, many of whom are reluctant to assimilate into western culture. Many governments have also resorted to bribing people with their own money by giving new mothers (single or married) a monetary prize for each child, but these programs throughout Europe have had largely anemic results and the only positive results come from many immigrant families who actively abuse the welfare system. For example, Senegal has the highest rate of polygamy in the entire world and what commonly happens is a senegal man comes with his wife to France, then once he sets down roots he brings in all of his other wives illegally and they all proceed to sponge off the French welfare state since in virtually every western nation, single motherhood is promoted over married motherhood by the socialists who run those nations. This is no different than Fundamentalist Mormon polygymous sects in states such as Utah and Colorado where the extra wives in a family sponger off the welfare state because they are technically single moms. Until you deal with the single motherhood problem in any nation, welfare policies will only bring the country down in the long run.

      Socialism is a death cult and you can look to much of Europe for proof of what happens to nations when they are afflicted with this disease. Many of America's recent problems are due to socialist policies, including those of one of the most closeted socialists ever in America, that being George W. Bush. Why a single so-called conservative still supports him is amazing to me, because pretty much all of his policies have been collectivist in nature and under his tenure government spending has increased 7% a year. In fact, even though the Democrats hate him with a passion, in reality he and the former Republican Congress has pretty much given them everything they could ever dream of under a Democratic Congress that traditionally is the favored party of big socialist government programs like No Child Left Behind or the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan.

      It is simply sad that in America your two main political parties are "Socialist Lite" in the form of the Republicans who are devolving into full blown Nationalist Socialists (i.e. Nazi's), and hardcore "Socialist Heavy" in the form of Democrats, many of whom in the leadership are borderline Communists.

      And people say we won the Cold War, when we seem to be devolving into what was once the Soviet Union?
      • Thorin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Wow.... you are ***** insane!
      • aptimass, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You got the demographic problems right, but then you fell off the deep end.
    • Dasickninja, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What the ***** are you on about? I saw immigration, polygamy, Mormons, and the Cold War all in one post...
  • bazzz, on 10/19/2007, -14/+81Very true, good article. Europe is generally in pretty good condition right now. So, Americans: if you're fed up with your government, the 750 billion spent on corporate profit and war (and not on general healthcare, improved scholar system, whatever) and you'd like to enjoy a nice and overall very good living quality (general health care, low crime rates, good jobs) come to europe! You're - of course - welcome here (if your name is _not_ Cheney, Bush, Rice, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and you've been part of the current administration)!

    • SiNN4R, on 10/10/2007, -46/+3I can't wait til this war is over and we overtake the world economy in a blinding flash. An incredibly large amount of our wealth is being thrown away in Iraq. The EU and other countries are getting cocky and I can't wait til we wipe the smirk off their face.
      • erkokite, on 10/10/2007, -0/+22If you read the article, you'd see that Europe kept pace with the USA even before the war in Iraq. Also it should be noted that our pre-war economic strength was mainly due to very cheap credit. Our current weakness is due to the collapse of cheap credit, although the war contributes greatly to our national debt.
        • Nossie, on 10/19/2007, -2/+30Sinn4r "The EU and other countries are getting cocky and I can't wait til we wipe the smirk off their face."

          It's arrogant ass holes like you that gave America its bad reputation in the first place!
        • Christbait, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10"It's arrogant ass holes like you that gave America its bad reputation in the first place!"

          Exactly.
        • aigulf, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2@ Christbait,

          Instead of posting a meaningless comment, why not simply digg up Nossie (that's what the thumbs are for, after all).
      • warriorscot, on 10/19/2007, -0/+8They started the war so that the US economy could continue to use the military industrial complex as a crutch, without that it would be doing even worse, Europe has allot of advantages over the united states and they have only got bigger in the last 50 years the US will never catch up no matter how much wealth you stop wasting because that wealth would just be wasted on something just as useless as you don't reinvest it back into your nation like countries in Europe and the rest of the world do.
        • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3
          If "Europe" as a whole spend as much of its combined GDP on defense - and stopped relying upon Uncle Sam to pay for it - Europe would not have money for its social programs. There's a reason why Western European countries were able to provide socialized medicine to its citizens post World War II, because Uncle Sam didn't insist that you match the money that we spent on our collective (Western Civilization) defense.
          • chicofaraby, on 10/19/2007, -1/+11From whom is the USA "defending" Europe?
    • elpohl, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3We really need a Carl's Jr. around here!!!
    • dinostabOMG, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Thank you, I'm loving it here. Um... care to offer me a visa for more than 3 months?
    • throop77, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8I thought wars gave temporary boosts to the economy...
      • Trocisp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8They do, when you need to produce the stuff needed to fight it.

        WWI, and WWII - we didn't have a standing military.
      • mithrasinvictus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Some people are getting REALLY rich because of this war. Too bad its always the wrong kind of people.
      • warriorscot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4They can and do however it is liking putting more fuel in your fire you are nice and toasty for a little while but you burned more of your fuel so you risk the fire going out and you have to go get more fuel if you want to keep it like that.

    • rolfv, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8yeah americans, come to the promised land!
      • Markpdotcom, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Shouldn't that be "return to", as most "American's" aren't originally from that continent.
    • gak001, on 10/19/2007, -0/+14Thanks for the offer! Europe is awesome, but we have an obligation to try to fix things over here. We'll vacation there to recharge the batteries, remember that the rest of the world is not as close-minded and ignorant, and see what potential humanity has, but in the end, things aren't going to change if we don't stick it out and change them.
    • SeaICIubber, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Except they wouldn't be truly welcome since even within the EU economic migration is causing problems
  • bcblock, on 10/19/2007, -24/+48It's important to point out that France's 8% unemployment rate only accounts for those actively seeking a job. Many people give up looking for a job because of the social safety net which supports them.
    • Zique, on 10/10/2007, -8/+48The same is true for every other country in EU, and USA too (although you can't talk about a social safety net in the US case).
      • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If you include the 'under-employed' in the US, I imagine you'd be well into double-digit unemployment rates also. The same problem exists in Australia - but on nowhere near the scale as it is in the States. We still have minimum wage and welfare (even if it's relatively limited compared to many European countries).
    • Dillinger71, on 10/11/2007, -0/+33You have to be actively seeking work and be able to prove it in order to receive social benefits in the UK. If you are offered a job and refuse to take it your benefits are stopped. I would imagine it is similar in most EU countries.
      • blitzman, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0How hard can it be to pretend to look for work by simply throwing the job interview?
      • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2
        Doubtful. The UK hasn't been as "generous" in social bennies as the rest of the Continent. Has the UK signed the EU Social Charter yet? Maybe Blair signed it...
      • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Holland has the same rule. Although, of course, loopholes are all over the place. Someone with no education could apply for a job way above his ability. You only need to send one job application per week and prove it. Then you'll receive your welfare. Note: a highschool dropout applying for the job of a brain surgeon won't make the loop in this loophole - the government officials aren't that stupid. But up to a certain degree, you are allowed to "raise the bar" if you will...
    • madeingermany, on 10/10/2007, -19/+5"Many people give up looking for a job because of the social safety net which supports them."
      That's why it is way better to not have a social safety net, so these parasites can't take advantage of all the good things like the socialized medicine!
      • madeingermany, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3did I forget my sarcasm tags _again_?
        • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes. Seems a lose-lose situation: sarcasm that isn't understood, or getting flamed for adding '/sarcasm' tags. :p
  • sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -12/+18#3 is true largely because Eurpoean countries have been sloooowly deregulating and loosening up their labor markets. It shows they can learn and change, but it sure isn't praise for their previous policies...
    • warriorscot, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7It is more of a case of adjusting the balances, nobody wants to go back to the days before we had the protections and safety nets that were fought so long and hard to get in the first place, people have allot of protection now from being used and thrown away, when people were manipulated into taking less than they deserved because they had no choice. Without all those regulations we could go back to those dark days when the class system ruled and people could so easily be abused, some of the regulations were too much but they are being changed like I said it's all about the balance and It would be a sad day when we lost what was won for the sake of progress that is clearly not needed.
  • sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -22/+25While I'm at it..

    The case against "Old Europe" was always somewhat exaggerated, much as the case against "new America" (not a real slogan, just wanted to use an opposite there) is also exaggerated. But I'd warn my friends on the Left not to think this is some stirring recommendation for old school Left Wing economics. A lot of this "good news" is the result of very free market influences that have been slowly adopted by Europe precisely because their old left wing BS wasn't working.

    Outsourcing, factories relocating to Eastern Europe, competion being increased/enforced from Brussles. All been happening for a while, though in a patchwork manner. Also, that low unemployment myth is still kinda true. They are averaging their unemployment rates based on nations, not population. Those "full employment" European nations include the likes of Ireland (small...and definitely not old school left wing. Look at their low corporate taxes), whersas the high unemployment countries include France (much bigger). Also keep in mind that unemployment in those big old school European countries has a much much higher rate of long-term unemployment (the worst kind), and it's mostly concentrated on the young, uneducated, and immigrants, and the picture becomes a lot muddier.

    Ditto for the "competitiveness" thing. German business has been moving factories and reducing labor costs to become more competitivie for example.

    Europe certainly didn't follow the ***** up trail blazed by the dumbasses of the Republican party, but it is a strong vindication of largely free market reforms. Precisely the kind of stuff the Left says is bad. So...in other words, I'm still right, and the Left is still wrong, and this helps prove it. It's nice to be right....
    • warriorscot, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5Did you think that the free market was invented in the US it was in full swing in Europe long before the US was even a colony, Europe has just found its balance all those things you say are free market reform are just things that are part of life there is no reform it was always more or less like that just because Europe adopted some left wing or centerline policies doesn't mean they ever abandoned the hundreds of years or mercantile tradition and experience it had accumulated. If anything as shown in the article all that has happened is Europe realised that total right winger politics wasn't the best way to run a country or an economy.
      • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2After the American Revolution, the British Empire evolved into believing in free traders. The Empire practiced free trade while rapidly industrializing nations like the United States and Germany enacted trade barriers. With the general financial collapse of the British Empire at the end of World War I and the later world wide Great Depression, global trade collapsed. The United States did not embrace free trade until after World War II as a means of making the rest of the non-Communist world prosperous again so that Communism would be contained. If the firestorm that is agricultural trade were separated from the rest of the trading issues, then there would be no legitimate reason why the US and the EU still do not have free trade with one another.
  • limbo1334, on 10/10/2007, -49/+12A quote that i liked on reddit:



    The European Union's $16 trillion

    Yes, because Old European countries are the only EU countries.

    European countries took the top four spots, seven of the top 10 spots and 12 of the top 20 spots in 2006-07. The United States ranked sixth. India ranked 43rd and mainland China 54th.

    Ireland, Switzerland, and Finland if I'm not mistaken. No one rally considers Ireland to be part of Old Europe (in fact no one really considers it at all, although it is the new economic power), Finland is not part of Old Europe. Switzerland, not part of the EU by the way, can stay.

    Not anymore. Half of the E.U. 15 nations have experienced effective full employment during this decade, and unemployment rates have been the same as or lower than the rate in the United States.

    Well, I'd still prefer America, where I can fire people without protests starting.

    Beware of stereotypes based on ideological assumptions. As Europe's economy has surged, it has maintained fairness and equality. Unlike in the United States, with its rampant inequality and lack of universal access to affordable health care and higher education, Europeans have harnessed their economic engine to create wealth that is broadly distributed.

    So basically, this guy is a socialist.

    He forgot the fact that Europe will succumb to Islam. Unless Europeans get their heads out of the sand:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=dQdPaWRNU8g http://youtube.com/watch?v=3-mRLjpkWcY http://youtube.com/watch?v=02rsMey3Ohg http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q9jdzVeMthA

    So basically this guys substitutes the entire EU for Old Europe, and clearly has a leftist agenda. He is averse to capitalism, the American way of life, and the constitution.
    • pirloui, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10A socialist !!!
    • chicofaraby, on 10/19/2007, -6/+22"He forgot the fact that Europe will succumb to Islam."

      What a goofy claim! Are you aware that in Western Europe, Muslims make up around 7% of the population. In Britain, it's less than 3%. The claim that Islam is going to take over Europe is low grade *****. It's as ridiculous as the claim that Iraq was a danger to the USA. It's absurd and one would have to be a damn fool to believe it. Are you a damn fool?
      • Ebulating, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4demographics is destiny. compare the muslim birth-rate to the non-muslim birthrate, and realize how fast those numbers can change.
      • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4
        If you Euros got to *****, then it would not be a problem. With the exception of Ireland, you aren't reproducing in sufficient quantities to even replace yourselves. As it stands, statistically, you have a lot in common with pandas.

        Perhaps Putin isn't so crazy with his efforts to increase Russia's birth rate after all...
      • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1... so western Europe will just import from eastern Europe where there are plenty of people more than willing to get their fair share of EU-goodness. Why you guys seem to think the Muslim population is a problem is beyond me, though. Ever been to Ankara (Turkey)? Those Muslims are more modern than most of us "westerners".

        Besides. Eastern European and Turkish/Maroccan girls are hot
    • warriorscot, on 10/19/2007, -1/+14What nonsense, Islam or any religion will never take control of Europe mostly because most Europeans fought so bloody hard to strip religions of any real power, Europe is also a place of equality if someone wants to be Muslim they are welcome to do so we do not impose beliefs on people and we don't allow others to do so no religion could ever take over Europe because it is for the most part incompatible with European culture.
      • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0Keep on believing that, while the Muslim brood mares produce seven children per woman, all on the dole at your expense. As soon as they have bred themselves into the majority in another thirty or forty years, they will vote in Sharia law, and you all will be *****. Your children and grandchildren will beg on their knees to be allowed into the USA.
        • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1.. don't forget they will resurrect Mohammed and conquer the world!

          My (fictional) God some of you are dense...
    • mearom, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2god forbid any government would give a damn about its people/ what it is. Not to say the government should coddle people, but at least free healthcare and enough food to live on (not necessarily be happy on though, dont want people to be too happy living off the paychecks of actual workers)
    • wiskers69, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I didn't want to take the time to try and link your input to the points in the story because you didn't take the time to number them but the last comment caught my eye: "He forgot the fact that Europe will succumb to Islam". Thats nonsense. You're mistaking tolerance for Islam with surrender. Of course the the extremists will try to create a divide but by and large economics has WAY more to do with it than religion. Catholics in the USA used to evoke the same fears from extremist, self styled "natives", in Boston and New York
    • Meccabilly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"He forgot the fact that Europe will succumb to Islam"

      Haha, yes, of course! Secularist Europe is all about the succumbing to islam. Can you spell P-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a? (no really, can you? Im terrible at spelling).
  • rockrapdude, on 10/10/2007, -18/+3http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
  • adn6691, on 10/19/2007, -7/+39Europe = good
  • ukthom, on 10/10/2007, -7/+14I love me British Pounds... :)

    Take a stand, be an ex-pat.
    • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5The Pound is useful because, with the exception of Ireland and increasingly Holland, the British economy works very differently to any in Europe. Operates over a different cycle and has different needs in terms of credit and inflation. The Euro basically breaks down to ERM mk3, the stability pact is little more than the synchronisation mechanism used there except with no real fall out if you break it and happen to be France or Germany. The constituent economies still haven't reached a stage where they are compatible but they are getting there.

      Unless Europe or Britain seriously changes economically I don't think we will enter the Euro and we certainly aren't going to change.
  • Clearz, on 10/10/2007, -6/+52AS a European this article pretty much sums up how ive felt for years while reasing so many pessimistic articles coming out of the US about Europe and wondering WTF they where on about. Viva la Europe.
    "Europe is more of a "workfare state" than a welfare state" This is so apt. A lot of Americans think that Europe is a welfare state that cripples ecconomic growth where in fact a few social institutions in the right place accually benifits capitalism by providing a hapier healtier more educated workforce.
  • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -29/+9Ayn Rand has never been more relevant! As Europe adopts the USA methods they become more competitive. Go figure.
    • Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"As Europe adopts the USA methods"

      eh where? know any cities in the US the size of london with 3000 CCTV cameras? Not that I'm saying its a good thing but thats one quick good example out my ass that your talking pish.... the only thing that we're adopting is armed police, but then we arent allowed to carry firearms in the first place :P
      • SiNN4R, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Oh yeah we would love 3000 CCTV cameras in a US city. They would make great target practice.
    • chicofaraby, on 10/19/2007, -5/+21"As Europe adopts the USA methods they become more competitive.'

      But they haven't adopted US methods. RTFA.
  • tracker198x, on 10/10/2007, -39/+6id rather live around illegals who get high and do construction work than a bunch of filthy sandal wearing muslims who ruin europe
    • pirloui, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10Capital letter to start a sentence, and . (dot) at the end. Every muslim I know types better than you, filthy honey bunny.
    • groovechamp30, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11Idiot.
    • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6While we're stereotyping: I imagine you're from Texas and come have a rather bad case of sunburn on your neck? How many retards did you execute this week for the fun of it?
    • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1In all fairness, I'd rather have the Turkish cuisine around me (which is very healthy!) than pizza eating, burger swallowing, chicken-nugget-skin peeling, coke drinking, overweight Americans shooting innocent people all day long.

      Please.. please note my sarcasm...
    • molerat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0How the ***** do people like you get so stupid? Jesus ***** Christ.
    • flaknugget, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ya, but who wants to hang around a hate-filled prick like you?
  • parasitewasp, on 10/11/2007, -33/+10We get it Digg.com the US is evil and Europe is great. Capitalism is bad socialism is good. You guys spout it like you don't believe it yourselves.
    • groovechamp30, on 10/10/2007, -4/+26Capitalism is good. Europeans are capitalists.
      • Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5capitalism is good when its not corrupt...... Europe just isn't quite as corrupt --- yet!
        • warriorscot, on 10/19/2007, -0/+8Europe was corrupt for a long time they just took steps to fix it a long time ago and that culture of healthy mistrust of people in positions of power has been maintained and most places in Europe have an extensive set of checks and balances.
          • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Europe doesn't need corruption. With CAP we waste enough money as it is.
        • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1We are not "one nation under God (and his puppet who believes this fictional God is speaking to him)", we're multiple nations under one union, making our own rules but working together. If France wants to spend a bazillion on a pointless war - Belgium and Germany wouldn't notice much of it. In other words: corrupt, retarded, deluded and corrupt political leaders just don't mean much. Most of all because they're easily kicked out of their respective government.
      • ChayD, on 10/19/2007, -1/+9Europe - Capitalism done right.
  • Richandler, on 10/10/2007, -5/+12Check on The Money Masters or Money As Debt and you'll understand why America is tanking.
    • lordmetroid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2It is only a matter of time, the federal system is implemented on a global scale.
    • Tetraca, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Fractional reserve is already the most accepted banking method in the world, and nobody has been able to pin the bastard down. Until the whole system collapses it will never be replaced.
  • jeffiek, on 10/19/2007, -4/+16Just recently, German retail stores have begun to stay open until 9 pm - on weekends. A few even stay open to *gasp* 10pm. All stores (except restaurants) are closed on Sundays.

    Anyone want to give them a clue that you can sell more stuff when the customer can get in the store? I sure don't. It's kinda nice and quiet at night.
    • pirloui, on 10/19/2007, -1/+12I find it good like that. Don't want to be a consumer h24...
      • mike17032, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3I do, I like being able to buy things when I chose to. Not when the store feels like being open.
        • DontGiveADamn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6That's what the Internet is for.
        • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Time to join the real world and come out in the daylight.
    • DaLeech, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4But it sure does suck when you need something urgently for the next day and the shops are closed.
      • bazzz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Filling stations these days include a whole supermarket and are open 24h in Germany (at least the larger ones). So if you urgently need something you can buy it there...
    • madeingermany, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7If you want groceries on Sunday, you have to go to a gas or train station, which have special permissions.
      Convenience is not as big in Germany - seems like worker protection is more important.

      By the way, they did experiment with extended opening hours and the few people that shopped outside the regular hours didn't make up for the extra cost.
      I don't think it is universally true that people buy more, just because they have more time to shop.... but I still think every business should be able to find that out for themselves, without the government interfering.
    • solid12345, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2I remember a friend telling me he took a vacation to Italy. Complained the shops were never open half the time, even at times they were *supposed* to be open according to the sign hours.

      I also fail to see how closed stores are worker protection? I used to work nights and I loved it, less traffic to deal with going to and from work.
      • Tenoq, on 10/19/2007, -0/+7Not making people work 12 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week is worker protection. Giving people the choice to not work on Sundays is worker protection. Maintaining a healthy, happy workforce is worth protecting.
    • Starkiller, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5"Anyone want to give them a clue that you can sell more stuff when the customer can get in the store?"

      How can Customers spend more money if the Store is opened longer? They have the same amount of money at their disposal....
      • pirloui, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Theywill succumb to that late night envy, and spend some more.. I guess it's about such.
    • init100, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4"All stores (except restaurants) are closed on Sundays."

      Why? Is it a law? Sounds quite inconvenient if you ask me. Here in Sweden most or all stores (except the alcohol monopoly stores) are open on Sundays, albeit they are open for a shorter duration. There are exceptions though, I have two large supermarkets open 8-22 every day (including Sundays) just one hop (a one-minute ride) away on the subway.
      • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I think of Sunday as a day off. Many do. There's not a big problem with stores being closed on Sundays, IMO. Would be like that anyway if you lived in a small town.
        • init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The staff that work on sundays usually get a day off in the middle of the week plus double the hourly pay. Some people actually want to work on weekends because of this.
  • Catbert107, on 10/10/2007, -24/+9I love it when Europeans try to compensate for any economic or social inefficiencies by citing how well the ENTIRE CONTINENT OF EUROPE is doing
    • madeingermany, on 10/19/2007, -1/+17This was an American Article.
    • CentraSpike, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12You did notice that this was a Washington post article didn't you? Would you rather the points were made using isolated examples from random parts of Europe? What the hell is wrong with talking about all of Europe when talking about the European economy?
    • Meccabilly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You forgot that the article said that 4 of the top 5 most competetive economies were european:

      http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm ...
  • jmpeagle, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8well a lot of their policies would not be implementable in the U.S. given their gigantic subsidies of large corporate Europe there. Not to mention their best performing economies have corporate tax rates 1/3 of ours. For example, Ireland's average corporate tax rate is only 12%. International companies are complaining that the U.S. has too much corporate regulation especially with the Sarbanes-Oxley act.

    The catch up Europe has accomplished is amazing but is can all be attributed to the huge reforms they passed during their times of crisis (also being the world's biggest exporter doesn't hurt when the rest of the world is growing at 5%+ per year). Britain had a crisis in 1979, Netherlands in 1982, Ireland in 1987, Denmark, Finland, and Sweden in the early 1990s. It is quite possible that the U.S. is currently slipping into a crisis since we aren't reforming, but like most of the Western World, we'll be able to reform. Unfortunatel, we are usually never able to reform until conditions deteriorate.
    • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10US doesn't have subsidies? I disagree with Europe on this but at least we are pretty open that we are subsidising and trade barrier establishing retards. America says one thing and does another, trust me your industries aren't short of subsidies.

      As for SOX, London was well on the way to over taking NY in any case. SOX just accelerated the already apparent trend. Airbus has been dominating short and medium haul sales for years as well, Boeing have known for some time what is coming, they just haven't been able to react.

      WRT reforms. They never happen until you are at rock bottom. In 1979 there was a serious chance Britain could have become full out communist, there were a serious section who spoke openly of such. Fortunately they proved their own downfall when workers started to become more afraid of corrupt unions than they were of their bosses.
      • jmpeagle, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3of course we subsidize but not to the same extent as Europe where the national governments have actual ownership stakes in the large domestic international corporations such as in the automotive industry and EADS. And as far as Airbus/Boeing competition, Boeing is back in the lead thanks to the pace of sales of Dreamliner and the production problems of Airbus thanks to government meddling (France and Germany's mostly). Luckily for the UK, they got out of their ownership of that company just as it was about to run into a whole set of problems.

        I am not bothered by London taking over NYC as the world financial hub but what I am worried about is the persistent complaints of over regulation in the U.S. from foreign companies who want to do business in the U.S. but are afraid of the complex regulatory rules.
        • Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Really? Sheep, cattle? Australia tries to compete in the US with better lamb and beef, but we're priced out of the market by US subsidies. And it's like that with pretty much every so-called 'free-trade' agreement we make with the US. I'm not sure why John Howard likes bending over for Bush so much. :(
          • jmpeagle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Did you not read my first sentence? Every country heavily subsidizes their agricultural products. Still doesn't compare to the ties between European governments and the Corporations they own.
    • bungoman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Farm subsidies are the worst of them all. At least subsidizing the airlines industry (as an example) doesn't make poor people in Africa and South America poorer like farm subsidies do.
  • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -24/+10Just got back from living in Belgium for three years in July. It is a mess. If you hire someone, you can never fire them. So the only business are mom and pop. The restaraunts (near Klein.) are terrible and get this...they close for lunch, lol, sounds like right up the leftist alley.
    • Cymrubeats, on 10/19/2007, -4/+15Are you sure you even know where Belgium is?
      • bungoman, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2***** you, not every American is bad at geography, I bet there are tons of people in Europe who can't find the US on a globe either.
        • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Maybe infants or.. well no, just infants. And even they would probably explain to you, in near perfect English, that they haven't yet been taught about the USA in school.

          Nice response, though.
    • yhan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6That's just ignorant to say, employment laws are probably not as lax in Belgium as in China but c'mon, that's a far stretch from reality.
      And about the restaurants specializing only on serving dinners and vice-versa, am I missing something or it sounds perfectly logical?
      • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -10/+3No, you are not missing any thing, Belgium is a full blown socialist country. The kind of country Leftist here long for. Since you cannot fire anyone for life, no one hires anyone, just family ran businesses. To get my vehicle a license I had to bribe the official. Everything is done underground.
        • FluffyWolf, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Please try to stay in the real world when debating, people take your comments so much more serious then.
    • Backdrifts, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6While you're complaining about restaraunts that don't serve lunch, don't forget that they have the one of the world's highest literacy rates, and one of the highest rates of people who go onto university. Oh, and it has one of the most productive work forces in the world, too.
      • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -12/+2Ahhhhhnnnnnttttt, you are wrong on the most productive, that title belongs to the good old USofA. Thank you for playing, please try again tomorrow.
        • Backdrifts, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Read my comment carefully, I said ONE OF. But hey, let's just ignore the facts about their education!
          • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -11/+2And I replied to ONE OF, did not dispute your other, although Leftist are known for making up figures to suit their purposes, after all the ends justifies the means eh?
        • Backdrifts, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7By the way, the USA is not the most productive. That title belongs to Norway - whose Government is a coalition between the Social Left Party, the Labour Party and the Centre Party! Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ...
          Thanks for playing, please don't bother trying again!
          • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1U.N.: U.S. workers are world’s most productive. Source http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/
            Ahhhhnnnnnttttt, wrong again, steeeerike two and you are out.
          • Backdrifts, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Well that depends on whose source you trust doesn't it? MSNBC - a television station with a conservative bias, or the University of Groningen. Which one's more likely to be objective?
          • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1And you are wrong on most literate, should have know you were making figures up.
            Which countries are the most literate?
            Andorra, Australia, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg all have 100% literacy rates.
            Source: Interactive Sortable Table of World Nations
          • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1LOL, you trust wiki? It has been totally discredited as a source. AND msnbc is a totally left leaning site. Besides, the figures are from the UNITED NATIONS, sheesh, oh well, can't argue with a fool.
          • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1 There are now enough serious incidents of false and defamatory information in Wikipedia biographies to warrant prohibiting this as a reference source in universities and university-level professional schools. ... This is made worse by the fact that Wikipedia is an automatic flow-through resource for other on-line sources.
            — Ken Friedman, Norwegian School of Management
            http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=Is_Wikip ...
          • Backdrifts, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Ok, let's look at the UN Development Programme Report then, shall we? Belgium is equal first at 99.9% literacy along with Australia, Canada, Germany, and a whole lot of other countries. Source: http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_ ...
            I think the UN are more trustworthy than 'interactive sortable table of world nations' (wtf?). Or are they just lefties too?
            MSNBC left leaning? Yeah, and Fox News are commies!
          • Stevanoski, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2Hmmm, when I used the UN in putting forth my thoughts you replied by attacking the fact I got it from msnbc. lol, don't fear thinking my young brother.
          • Syntaxis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Say Stevanoski, percentages aside, would you rather send 10 people to a false war, or keep them home and spend the money you keep on helping 20 people get a good education, get another 20 good healthcare and preserving nature?

            From your replies it seems you hate the world so much you'd rather send 10 soldiers to kill and/or die in a pointless war, only to satisfy your own false sense of security.

            My point being: No country is perfect, but Belgium comes a whole lot closer to a "perfect" country than the USA at the moment. Feel free do deny even that, though.
    • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4That isn't even a problem. The EU is legislating to try and stop hard working individuals who want to get ahead from working more than 48 hours a week. Basically, in France they have a 35 hour working week directive. The only way this can be made viable is if every other EU nation stops working as well. So they push out, via the EU, laws that make it illegal for people to work whatever damn hours they want.
      • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1
        I thought France dismantled its short-lived 35 hour work week. That certainly was not a way of meeting its spending limitations as required by membership in the Eurozone.
  • Christbait, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12America's economy would be doing better if only they didn't have the United Snakes Of America up in the White House, insisting on dumping trillions on a war that's never going to come to an end.
  • tehxen3, on 10/10/2007, -15/+10Europe is getting better only because it's slowly adopting US-style freer markets and marketplace competition.
    Even their left-wing politicians are realizing that less welfare state BS is the way to go, especially with an aging population.
    US is still a much richer place, and you don't get more than half of your paycheck stolen by bureaucrats.
    • pirloui, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Richer? You mean the 60 000$ debt per head?
      • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1The US national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is lower than in France, Germany, Italy, Canada, or Japan.
        • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6According to CIA Factbook (something that presumably can be trusted as pro-American I hope :)

          US public debt is 64.7% of GDP but there have been massive deficits the last few years.
          https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

          France is the same with 64.7%.... but with far more services and less of a deficit per GDP than the US for the last few years
          https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

          Germany is slightly more at 66.8% (but it isn't that much more and again they have been having smaller deficits than the US)
          http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=deficit+us&btn ...

          Japan has astronomical debt at 176.25.... but interestingly enough... the Japanese pay less taxes then Americans.
          https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

          The huge success story is Canada though. They have had government surpluses for nearly a decade (including an all time record one this year) and have less debt at 65.4%. I also read somewhere they are targeting for 45% debt within 10 years. (and they too have universal health care and more public services than the US)

          https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

          What this all adds up to is money is being seriously mismanaged by the right at the moment. Bush is irresponsibly giving massive tax cuts to those that need them the least when he should either be improving services for those that need the help or at least paying down the debt.
      • tehxen3, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1What ShadowMerchant said.
    • udahlen, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9To some degree your are right. The left wing did some very bad things during the 70's. But that is over a long time. Europe is not abandoning its commitment to generous social services and free health care. If you count these benefits, I think you'll find that the European working/middle class is better off than the American working/middle class. So, you are wrong (and getting even more wrong each year).
    • warriorscot, on 10/19/2007, -2/+10Since the US free market is based on the European free market how can Europe adopt something that was adopted from them, the concept of capitalism and the free market came with the colonists from Europe it was not something that was invented in the Americas.

      And maybe you should learn more about Europe and its politics before you spout out BS, no politician in their right mind argues for an abolition of the welfare state it is political suicide most however argue for reforms to help further streamline and increase its value for money and make sure that the money goes to the people that need it, even the right wingers would never dare campaign against it.

      The facts would seem to contradict your statement that US is richer when clearly Europe has more wealth and while half of someone's paycheck is taxed they also get allot or even all of it back eventually in one form or the other. You would probably find all the money that most would use to pay various forms of insurance that are covered in Europe by government services the difference isn't all that much and the Europeans get a way better deal for their money in universal health care nobody gets denied care because they forgot to tick a box on an application form.
      • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2It's a European concept but one we have tried desperately to do away with for some reason in the last few decades. Fortunately the market reasserts itself.
    • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -6/+4Can't argue with that. Slowly some reform is happening but the vestiges of stupidity still exist. Fortunately Sarkozy seems set to take France down a far more sensible route and Merkel is already in power in Germany. Cameron has recently retaken the lead in the polls here in the UK so 2/3 years from now we'll have a right wing led EU for the first time ever.
      • mikemx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Cameron is useless, in the event he wins the next election it'll be the same old Tory policy of giving as much of the money to gin soaked toffs that don't need it anyway
  • tracker198x, on 10/10/2007, -28/+7Europe is getting overrun with smelly muslims who just want to takeover and institute their own law. Remember the Dutch comic incident?
    • pirloui, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Sadly, there are extremists everywhere. Also christian ones.
      • tracker198x, on 10/10/2007, -17/+2im no extremist, i just recognize the fact that these people SMELL bad and look awful. they have crusty looking beards, wear sandals everywhere with dirty brown feet, and dont shower everyday. who wants to live around ppl like that? mexicans are bad too but not this bad.
    • x00x, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1Things are only going to get worse.
    • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It wasn't a Dutch comic incident. And, really, the Muslims are -not- a problem and they will not be a problem, either. Yeah, I know the stories. They breed, we don't. It's *****. There are many more eastern Europeans coming to western Europe. They generally don't bring religion with them. Furthermore, the people from Turkey and Morocco are integrating perfectly. The children of the first immigrants have renounced their religion, mostly, and are more often than not well educated.

      So please. Get your facts straight.
  • muhlig, on 10/10/2007, -14/+15well, i am a German, i live in America, and i don't think that Europe is doing so great. it is still the united states where entrepreneurship is encouraged, which will finally result in economic growth. i can only talk about my own country, but in Germany it is so much tougher to start a business... and my people seem to lack this entrepreneurial drive... so, in my opinion it will still be the United States where something is going on, and it will stay like this for a while, and when somebody else takes over, then it won't be Europe, it will be India or China.
    • tracker198x, on 10/10/2007, -11/+6lol the anti american americans digg down a european because he isnt as pro european as they want him to be, even though you have more credibility than they do! hahahaha this is GOLD Jerry, GOLD!
      • tororosso, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3That might be true of Germany, but let's not forget Europe is much more than Germany, just take a look at Ireland and Eastern Europe, where starting a business is about as easy as it gets. Germany is the sick man of Europe and you were better off moving to the US, but you could have also moved to Ireland or the UK, particularly greater London area, where business is booming right now.
        • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2
          Ireland's modern prosperity has a lot to do with the European Stability Fund payments that came from the pockets of the German and British tax payers.
    • bazzz, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Sorry, cannot confirm that (for Germany). Had several colleagues establishing their own businesses lately and some of them received funding from their local cities, the local administration had been very helpful regarding the necessary paper-stuff. This has changed a lot in recent years, might depend on the exact state you're coming from.
    • solid12345, on 10/10/2007, -12/+1I remember a German exchange student's quote in high school "All those damn east germans are so lazy!"

      Only problem is rest of Europe is becoming like the east germans!
    • Tetraca, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2America may have a better drive for entrepreneurship, but at the same time all the big boys in the world like Wal-Mart make it hard to have a good business, though not entirely impossible. The fact that a company like Moog is still in business ends up being suprising.
  • NekoAmplifier, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11To Sweden~!
  • mattsw84, on 10/10/2007, -14/+9Yeah America totally sucks and Europe is awsome....awww I have to go guys my mom is making me go to bed.
  • Economist35, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3economic populists ftw
  • SingingMongoose, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5You know why Europe's so well off?

    Because Switzerland has public toilet-booths walled with one-way mirrors.
  • EserVerx, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8more reinforcement in my thoughts of moving to Europe.
    • GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6If you do that then don't assume one area is equivalent to another. There's a vast difference in public services across Europe. Most European nations have state funded, private health care and it works reasonably well. In Britain we have state controlled health care and the contrast between it and private is huge.

      Taxation policy alters drastically across the spectrum. Some favour sales taxes, others corporate, others direct income. Britain prefers a series of attritional and high cost stealth taxes with abnormally high corporate tax (28%, has come down from 30% recently).

      Finally most of the EU nations have problems with hidden non costed pension liabilities. This could cause serious issues 10 years from now. Many of them are dealing with this now.

      Personally I'd say Ireland is the best place right now or anywhere in Scandinavia.
      • christkv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Actually the US social security fund is in as bad or worse shape than most European Countries. Considering all the money the current administration has been wasting and the fact that The social security fund is just a huge bunch of I owe yous (I owe you 50 million for a bunch of cluster bombs).

        http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2007/10/01/opinion/ ...

        I would be thinking about saving up some more in that 401k for a rainy day if I where you as there sure is not going to be anything around from social security.
        • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0"I would be thinking about saving up some more in that 401k for a rainy day if I where you as there sure is not going to be anything around from social security."

          Go ahead, but be advised that the left-wing termites have long had their beady eyes on that pot of gold. HillaryCare was going to be funded by a surtax on individual retirement accounts at one point. I have no doubt the horrid bitch would try it again if she got into power.

  • x00x, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Wow. This article is a real eye-opener shattering all the cliches I thought were incontrovertible about the state of global economic realities. The USA doesn't seem to fare very well as its perennial position as preeminent economic power.


  • udahlen, on 10/19/2007, -6/+18It's sad that Americans in general don't know much about the world around them, or have very distorted views about other countries. Europeans know much more about America than Americans know about Europe. We (Europeans) are influenced by America; it would be good for America if you learned about Europe.
    • solid12345, on 10/10/2007, -9/+6Actually I disagree, Europeans know jack ***** about America..

      I remember a quote from one of the band members of Rammstein where he said he doesn't like America because it has no culture.

      So lets see? Jazz and blues music, 4th of july celebrations, Native American art and dance, rock and roll, cinema, baseball, the list could go on all day.

      Yes, America has no culture, we are after all just a nation of loud talking cowboys, remember?
      • ChayD, on 10/19/2007, -0/+7"Europeans know jack ***** about America.." That's BS! Name me a city, and I'll tell you which state it's in. I actually know more about the US than I do my own country for chrissakes, but then this is because America was actually rather cool not so long ago (and it probably will go back to being cool once the government release the stranglehold) - that and I'm part American myself
        • jasqwerty, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1>>Name me a city, and I'll tell you which state it's in

          Wow, real big man challenge right there on the internet you ***** eurotrash. Don't be delusional. Europeans are ***** clueless about America. I've experienced it first hand.
          • there, on 10/20/2007, -1/+10 Logical fallacy. Just because you've experienced some instance of it doesn't act as adequate evidence of the validity of your point. To do that would require a much large sample. In fact, I bet based on international academic testing and that America exports a great many movies... most Europeans know far far more America than vice versa. My own experience has been that many Americans picture Europe as communist and poor... when in reality the average citizen has a better standard of living than here and Europe is only slightly more "socialist" then America. (public health care being the main difference)

            Government accounts for about 40% of GDP in the EU and 30% in America... not exactly a night and day difference I'd say.

            "you ***** eurotrash"

            Wow, real big man. Ad hominmem attack on the Internet. How brave and original. Great job of furthering international relations. Let me take my crayons out to take some notes.
    • kernel16, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5That's because the American media is that much stronger, and more influential. The real question is do the people who know so much about America know as much about their own countries? I say this because I know quite a few people in Canada that'll bitch about American politics after watching CNN all day, but wouldn't know even a general idea of whats happening in Canadian politics. Id argue that it's not that you wanted to learn so much about America than it's just easier for other countries because their media is usually whats on our media. Unlike for the states they'd have to actively look for it.
    • Jamihabs, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4This is what all Americans should know about Europe. America saved Europe from Communism, from Nazism, and soon from radical Muslims. European passiveness has resulted in a lot of dead Americans.
      • kazamx, on 10/19/2007, -3/+11Helping the Americans has been the greatest danger to the British military since WW2. Since WW2 the country that has killed the most British soldiers is America.
      • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Why should we lift a finger to save the statist European ingrates from the bloodthirsty Muslim savages? They deserve each other.
    • amightywind, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2Dude, I'm too busy watching football (real American football) and going to Walmart to learn about Europe. The rest of the world are just target coordinates.
      • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Dude... you are leaving in a dream world if you think the rest of world is insignficant to you. In case you didn't notice... most of the ***** in Walmart doesn't come from America.

        And as for your "coordinates" comment. You think you could do anything to stop THOUSANDS of Russian ICBMs? Or smuggled in Muslim ones? Or Lavon affair specials from Israel designed to look like they came from Muslims? Or one's from China? Or one's from India? Or one's from Europe? Or ones from any one of the hundred or so countries in this world capable of producing nukes.

        You need to learn to stop talking like a cartoon-like childish bully and starting talking like an adult. The things you say make America look bad.


        • amightywind, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yah, that's me, a bully at the keyboard (rolls eyes).

          As for the 1000's of Russian warheads, if they still work , and the 10's of Chinese, of the same design, there is a thing called MAD. There is also an increasingly effective US missile defense to mop up the rest.

          I will not be one of you liberal, self-loathing, impotent internationalists even if most of the morons on this forum are.
        • there, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"10's of Chinese, of the same design, there is a thing called MAD"

          Star wars will save me you dumb liberals. Surely no nation has the capability to sneak them in piece by piece and detonate them unannounced. (Brilliant plan Patten.)

          "will not be one of you liberal, self-loathing, impotent internationalists even if most of the morons on this forum are."

          To each his own I guess. Nothing I can do to keep you from saying an oger. Surely America is a not a country of immigrants that can from the world. Surely the rest of the world is not occupied by people just as human as any American.

          Say hi to your fellow tribesman at your next klan meeting for me will you.
        • there, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1-
    • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2OK smarty pants, here's your test.

      The American state of Ohio has a larger land mass and significantly larger population than the nation of Austria. It's a thousand kilometers from the state of Iowa, and two thousand kilometers from the state of Idaho, which by itself is larger than Great Britain.

      Without consulting any reference books or Web sites, can you find these three states on an unlabeled map of the USA, and give any example of how their cultures, economies, or geographical features differ from each other?

      I assure you I can do this with every nation of Europe.

      • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Details like that are pushing it. But most Europeans can tell you who the president of the USA is, who preceded him, who's running for president, when the next elections will be, and they will tell you all this.. in nearly flawless English.

        Most Americans I ran into thought Amsterdam was a country and that Holland was near Russia. But, they claimed, they know The Netherlands were near Belgium! Go-go genius education!
        • ShadowMerchant, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Ha! Holland/Netherlands IS near Russia! It's only about 900km from Amsterdam to Kaliningrad. A mere day's drive. That's about the same distance as going from San Diego to San Francisco, and never leaving the borders of the state of California.

          Having been to the Netherlands, I can confirm that you guys do speak excellent English. And yes, I know that's the Dutch flag.
          • Syntaxis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Hmm. Perception. Interesting. I stand corrected. But, to me, the distance is huge. I consider 100km to be a journey I need to prepare for. 900 Is like traveling the world ;-)
  • kernel16, on 10/10/2007, -11/+6EU = 27 countries, they better be able to beat countries in 27v1...
    • SeaICIubber, on 10/19/2007, -0/+8The UK has only just finished paying off the WWII liberty ship debt.
      Way to go, charge us extortionate amounts for fighting fascism!
      • kernel16, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1As if the UK is any innocent in this matter cough colonies cough... What about Japan, and Germany. They both lost WW2, but are #2 and #3 in world's largest economy list as of 07. http://australianpolitics.com/foreign/trade/03-01- ...

        Quit QQing? Yes.
        • SeaICIubber, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Your point about the UK being a colonial power is totally irrelevant to my statement.
          Yes they're large economies thanks to the allies rebuilding them after the war. For example go google the Macarthur plan for Japan.
          http://www.time.com/time/asia/2006/heroes/nb_macar ...
          I'm berating a country for profiteering during a world struggle and you try to counter it by showing countries that have had money thrown into them not taken away!
          You don't make sense.
    • Zique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Yeah, only if Europeans had realized to occupy a land area twice the size of EU, declare it as a single country, and import free labor...
      • gummih, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well, to be fair, they did - but then they lost it.
  • Jamihabs, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6My company has a European distributor who begs me not to sell my products to a few US companies. He tells me that these US companies work with other European companies to smuggle my products into Europe. These European companies are then able to undercut my distributor’s prices because they have avoided paying huge import taxes and fees.

    I wonder if the European trade surplus figures take into account that much of what is imported into Europe is smuggled in.
  • opticwind, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8"America's economy would be doing better if only they didn't have the United Snakes Of America up in the White House, insisting on dumping trillions on a war that's never going to come to an end."

    That's right, it's Bush's fault. Just like for Katrina and 9/11. Seriously, there are things MUCH bigger than Bush going on in our economy. People seem to have this weird image of Bush having every document in America crossing his desk and he being responsible for everything.
    • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Well said! For a moron he sure seems to have a lot of control, even the weather.
    • ChayD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well, somebody's gotta be held accountable.
      Must be Bush's fault that there are some flavors in my pick'n'mix JellyBellys that I definitely didn't put in there.
    • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Thankfully he did all he could to fix the damage done by Katrina ASAP, even if it meant killing innocent people in Iraq for a few weeks. Tell me, is New Orleans fully up and running again? Are there still people waiting to get into a trailer and have to live with friends and family, if possible? Oh if only Bush would spend 1% of his war funds on helping the poor unfortunate people in his own country. But no, it's more important to kill nasty terrorists and other monstrous horrors abroad.

      Oh did I just say that?

      I meant to say: Bush is innocent! LEAVE BUSH ALONE! /sarcasm
  • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -11/+6I love the way the Left cannot stand when people who have lived in Europe say USA not that bad. They argue "well yeah but..." Said it before, Ayn Rand has never been so relevant as she is today. She totally destroyed the word "progressive" for 50 years. It is just now making a comeback as the word Liberal is now something no one wants to be called.
    • there, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9 Your "idol" Rand was an insecure hag that never produced anything of worth. Other than hot air .. name me one useful product she produced?

      Anything she wrote about that was remotely interesting was in essence plagiarized from others (Hedonists, Adam Smith, Aristotle, etc,). Her sole “accomplishment” was to enslave the emotionally weak (through the use of flattery and childish egotism) into her Objectivist cult. Now millions that once read Atlas Shrugged are convinced they are ALL (lol... millions of “elite”) part of the timeless elite and individuals... when in reality they have given up their individuality to become ideological drones (aka Randroids).

      Rand represents the new priesthood. Parasites that only preach and take... but give nothing back. Though she claimed her goal was to free men..... much like communism.... her values enslave them. Her followers tend to be rude, insecure, wannabe tyrants. I would probably pity her as she was obviously unhappy (to be so obsessed with the subject of happiness) but I can't help feeling animosity towards someone so cruel and selfish... and someone that brought so much ugliness into the world..

      As your assertion that Europeans are adopting American practices.... it's true....but anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows America has adopted far far more from Europeans than the other way around (Tesla, Ohm, Curie, Darwin, Doppler, Dyson, Euler, Fourier, Hertz, Marconi, Von Brown, Boole's, Newton, Pascal , Schrödinger, Pauli, Adam Smith, Einstein, Bohr, Von Neumann, Bell, Bernoulli. Tesla, Mach, Flemining, Maxwell, Joule, Kepler, Lorentz, Watt, Planck, Pauli, Poincaré, Teller, Rutherford,Berners-Lee, ...etc. etc....

      The list is a who''s who of the greatest achievements in human history. (and don't get me started on the accomplishments of antiquity) You would probably be starving and hunting for your food with a stick if it wasn't for Europe.

      I love American culture but not all of it. Part of America is a fungus.that's slowly destroying it from the inside. Millions of loud mouthed flag waving buffoons believe they are the invincible Übermensch when in reality they are flushing their country down the toilet by sabotaging international relations with mindless hubris and military adventurism. (like the 25-30% of fascists in Germany and Italy once did), Unfortunately about a quarter of America is now also made up of rude, egotist bullies that believe the answer to every problem involves pulling out their pea shooters. For some strange reason they seem to think that the rest of the civilized world couldn't build nukes up the ying yang and point them at America's head like we point our WMDs at everyone else,

      America did enjoy a bit of lead over Europe for most of the 20th century after a few idiotic fascist Germans and Italians decided to level much of Europe by attacking other countries in a frenzy of uber-patriotism, xenophobia, and greed (sounds much like Rand if you ask me). America showed the way during that time by founding the UN, and promoting a spirit of international cooperation.

      Today... it's slowly America appears to be slowly decaying into tyranny where a few elites are trying to dictate to the world how it should behave. A place where torture is acceptable, where the state can spy on you without a warrant, where you can be wisked away to a secret prison with no trial, where most of the wealth is under the centralized control of few corporate and political elite that tell you everything you should think.

      You are completely powerless... while you imagine yourself Napoleon (thanks to your friend Rand.... that cares nothing for you and thinks YOU are a parasite... while you call everyone else one).

      Europeans learned from two world wars but Americans seem to have forgotten. America has allowed evil to take root at home. Xenophobia, rampant crime, anti-European, anti-UN rants, hate speech against minorities, oppression of the weak, are all the norm in America today. A small army of paid propagandists like Beck, O'Reilly, Coultier, Rush, etc...have hijacked the media and what was once good people have turned into tyrants that are poised to make the exact same mistakes that Europeans one did. (complete with a religious scapegoat of Muslims).
      • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3She wrote about excellence, no wonder you missed it.
        • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Plenty of people were far greater than Rand... and had no need of her disgusting, inhumane values to succeed. Rand is for the weak minded and bullies.
      • wafla, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Thumbs up to "there's" comprehensive post. Bringing Rand into an argument is a sure sign of youth and inexperience. Rand is a writer you blow through in your college years. If you get stuck there it's just sort of sad.
  • ONELOVE23, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7Then why did we all move here?
  • n8f8, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Summary: the US sucks. FU
  • J2002uk, on 10/10/2007, -8/+31 - EU = 27 countries, they better be able to beat countries in 27v1... USA has 52 states... (Or should I say Colonies) 2 - Wow. This article is a real eye-opener shattering all the cliches I thought were incontrovertible about the state of global economic realities. The USA doesn't seem to fare very well as its perennial position as preeminent economic power. Wow - for 60 years you've been #1 - Go America! - Unfortunately for us, we were busy saving the world from Fascism (An expensive business when the enemy actually does have more than a couple of sticks) whilst you profitted hugely by selling fuel and weapons to both sides and Jumping in at the last minute to claim victory!
    • kazamx, on 10/19/2007, -1/+8The Americans like to forget that they refused to declare war on Germany. After Pearl Harbour, the Germand declared war on America in a pact with Japan. America responded by going to war with Germany. If the Germans didn't declare war on America then the Americans would have sat back and done nothing.
      • jmpeagle, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2why should we have done anything? The Brits were taking care of themselves and fending off a German invasion and their attack on Russia opened up a second front. All getting involved in WW2 did was get us stuck with the burden of troop deployments and the protection of western europe and japan from the USSR for 50 years. Even after the USSR collapsed, we still are pouring money into the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.... because of our military bases there.
      • there, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5 He also conveniently forgot that America has 300 million people and he's trying to compare it to tiny countries like the UK, Greece, Switzerland or Italy. The Eu combined has just over 400 million population so I think it's very fair to make comparisons between all EU countries combined versus America. Europeans tend to have a higher standard of living even though output is slightly greater here. The main reason for this is America has an army of idiots that argue against their own interests for tax cuts that only hurt average people. It isn't even rich people that are to blame for this as guys like Buffer and Gates (who are both great altruists) agree the system is too skewed to far to the right at the moment.
      • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Hey, have you ever protested the US, bet you have. You would have been right there with the Hienies I bet.
      • Stevanoski, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2And you forget, there were 50,000 Germans protesting in the streets of American cities trying to keep the US out, hey, kind of like today, although smaller numbers today.
        • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2There were Irish American and German American groups who protested against the "Allies" and America joining them all throughout World War I.

          German Americans were put in internment camps in both World War I and II (Italian Americans in World War II), but you only hear about the Japanese Americans being interned during World War II. The media also conveniently forgets why Roosevelt and the United States government chose to round up the Japanese Americans...because in Brazil, Imperial Japanese agents operated within the immigrant Japanese populace in Brazil and sabotaged Allied ships and cargo and the Brazilian government and the Allied agents had a very difficult time distinguishing between those agents and the honest immigrants who weren't loyal to Imperial Japan.
      • anonimuso, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Isn't it ironic that liberals are chastising the U.S. for not declaring war back in WWII BEFORE we were attacked. Would seem like an unprovoked preemptive strike to me. Amd I know you libs don't like those.
        • Croaton, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think your well past both "unprovoked" and "preemptive" when the country you would declare war on had just laid waste to and occupied most of mainland Europe...
  • Lynxpro, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3
    There's no real economically sound reason for the euro's appreciation against the Dollar. France has a national debt of 1 trillion euros, and Germany has an even larger national debt that that. Even at $7-$9 trillion, the US National Debt is not as big of a deal as the media makes it out to be. If it were, perhaps Bono should be traveling to China and Japan to forgive our debt that they own.

    Furthermore, the best economy in geographic Europe isn't even a member of the euro...that being the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
    • there, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 The US has a massive trade deficit with many countries while Europe has a trade surplus.

      The US has had record deficits the last few years (propelled by unnecessary tax cuts to the wealthy and unnecessary wars). This shows no signs of letting up... while Europe is putting spending under control.

      The under reglulated US banking industry has once again undergone a serious shake up in confidence (like it did when Reagan deregulated S and Ls).... which has lead to massive losses and distrust of the green back,

      The US is currently engaged in aggressive behavior with many oil producing countries and playing tough guy with many others. Many countries are fed up with these bully tactics and one's that always dealt only with US dollars are now switching to the Euro to protect their assets from threats of confiscation from the US government.

      You should have listened to Buffet would bet against dollar several years ago. The US seems destined for another recession at best.... or a very major one if things don't turn a corner soon. There is a great deal of stress on it now thanks to GWB's Republicans.



      http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/20818366
  • Goldbricker, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5There's good and bad to be found in both. One thing I admire about Europe is how they've proven productivity can be maintained while still allowing workers a generous amount of time off. In America I feel like we're working ourselves to death.
  • Holosiren, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5Europe a "workfare" society? Are we talking about the Europe where Italy and several governments spend more than their gross domestic product to fund social programs?
  • amightywind, on 10/10/2007, -12/+8I have nothing against Europe. But double digit unemployment, high taxes, and lack of social mobility are not the American way. The US continually out paces much of old Europe in economic growth, accept in eastern Europe whose newly liberated people are more US-like than European. You see a lot of stories like this from the biased mainsteam media because they want to promote the European socialist vision of Hillary Clinton. Don't be deceived.
    • christkv, on 10/10/2007, -11/+4You're obviously oblivious to the facts sourrounding you. Biased mainstream media, what a joke. Typical rant, I don't like the news so they must be biased. God help if they actually contain some facts. They must be fabricated because they don't fit with my concept of Narnia.
      • there, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9He didn't even read the article. He's just quoting what some rightwing think tank tells him to think. It's this exactly sort of misinformation that the far right perpetuates to keep their minions under control.

        The EU hasn't had double digit unemployment in well over a decade. As for "social mobility" far fewer Americans enjoy the benefits of its wealth than do Europeans. The average European works more reasonable hours, gets better benefits, has healthcare,. homelessness is a minor issue,. and crime are a fraction of that of the US. I've never seen a trailer park and Europe and I went through a fair chunk of it with my bike a few years ago.

        Americans love to say "we are the greatest country in the world". Sure... ny the sheer size of GDP it's true (although Europe's combined GDP has now surpassed it) However in terms of standard of living for the average citizen...I kid you not when I say don't even think Americans even make it into the top ten anymore.



        . Homelessness and lack
        • ShadowMerchant, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0"crime are a fraction of that of the US"

          I'm not going to argue with anything you said, except this statement right here. Yes, we have a murder rate that looks bad by comparison to Europe. However, a hundred years ago when Europeans could carry pistols just like Americans, there was an even greater disparity. Our murder rate has been falling dramatically, while in many European countries it is rising rapidly.

          If current trends contnue, the UK will have a higher murder rate than the US in another fifteen or twenty years. Their murder rate has tripled in the last 30 years, wile ours has almost halved. France, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, and many other European countries show similar trends.

          And for everything other than murder, the crime rates in Europe dwarf the US figures. You are now almost five times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime in the UK or France as you are in the US, and that's when the police forces actually register crimes, which in some circumstances they no longer bother to do..

          http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html

          Oh, and the trailer parks? In Europe those same people would live in gigantic crime-ridden concrete public housing projects. Most Americans, or I should perhaps say most white Americans, would rather live in a tent than in public housing. The trailer parks of the US are a good thing, fostering a sense of individualism and independence from nosy neighbors and government busybodies.
    • chicofaraby, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7You are a parody aren't you? No one is actually that stupid.
    • Zique, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5What the... lack of social mobility? The social mobility in USA is a joke compared to continental Europe, you might want to study the issue. It's really interesting how Americans are instilled with the sense of being capable of archieving any social class even when the reality contradicts it.
    • Biskino, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I'm afraid I'm going to have to give you an F for 'Reading and comprehension'.
  • java81, on 10/10/2007, -7/+7I don't get it-- the U.S. still has makes roughly a THIRD of the world GDP-- the world's folks. You can condense all the traditions, countries and nations of Europe into this homogenous group but that's the thing... Europe is no nation. I love how the 'EU' gets placed into it's own little category-- even so, the U.S. is hardly far away from the EU in GDP.

    But more than anything-- please tell me where Europe would be if it wasn't for the U.S.? Europeans need a history lesson-- See the Marshall Plan.
    • nick111, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Who cares about GDP if it only benefits the top 1% of the population? America may make trillions of dollars, but the rich people get it all.

      And I think you'll find, dear boy, that on the whole, Americans need more of a history lesson than the Europeans... and if you personally had paid a little more attention in school, maybe your basic reading-comprehension would be of a level where you'd actually notice that this article was written by an American.
    • tehxen3, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2nick111, google EU vs. USA, you will find a great study which finds that even "poor" americans are better off than an average european (written by an european think tank).
      If Sweden was a state in US it would be the poorest one.
      Americans simply have more disposalble income, more cars and consumer goods, best higher education in the world and larger percentage of college educated people than europe.
      Sorry EU loses again.
  • nixfu, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3Europe??? Where is that???


    Wasn't that where EURABIA and EUROSTAN are located now?

    • Syntaxis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1It's near Mex York and Chimexigo.

      Oh I made a funny comment. Look at me people. I'm funny on the internet. Don't mind me being very, very wrong, but it's funny! Haha.

      ^^ read that aloud, as dry as possible. It's really funny.

      /sarcasm
  • blindflacker, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3You can get a 2 bedroom, 2 bath house with a 1/2 acre lawn in US for $100k in many parts of the US. Gas is $3.00 a gallon here and most can afford a car. Even with the bad condition of the $ you will find your able to purchase much more here. The Euro is the best thing to come to Europe in a while, but exchange rates are nothing compared to what you can buy.
    • digga, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Didn't you read the rest of the article? Such as the "eco-footprint"?
    • kitwaites, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The problem I'd have with living in the US is that even though the geography itself is so diverse and beautiful, most inhabitted parts of the US are ugly beyond belief. This is due a lot to your dependence on cars, which means signs have to be big and gawdy, and that the idea of streets as a social space is lost. The price of fuel itself is also irrelevant when most Europeans drive cars many times more efficient than US ones - and Americans have to drive a lot further.

      That said, I suspect my £'s could buy a fair amount in America at the moment!
  • jasqwerty, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Why do people always treat the EU as one big country when they try to compare a country to the US...

    Then of course they leave out all the negative things about this 'EU' nation. For example, people always mouth off about the US debt. Externally, it stands at 10 trillion. Well, what about this glorious EU? Their external debt stands at 27 trillion. That's right, almost 3x more.
    • there, on 10/20/2007, -2/+3 I seriously doubt that figure represents the EU. You are probably using a figure that includes ALL Europe... which is another 300 milliion or so people of Eastern Europe that has a bunch of debt from loans from Europe trying to bring up it's standard of living to the rest of Europe..

      I don't know the precise figure for EU debt but I did a quick look of France which presumably would have great deal of debt since it is one of the larger nations (and usually called "socialist" by Americans when in fact France is a mixed economy like the US just with more services)

      According to the CIA fact book public debt is 64.7% of GDP in France.
      https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

      For the US the figure is 64,7% also..
      https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

      Seeing as the CIA fact book can not be argued as biased "anti-American data, I fail to see how your sources are accurate. So rather than just throwing a number out there....what's your source? (Hopefully something other than some rightwing "think tank" which have a bad habit of massaging numbers to manipulate the public)
      • jasqwerty, on 10/20/2007, -0/+1Jee aren't you a cute clueless butthurt *****...

        >> I fail to see how your sources are accurate

        Maybe if you weren't a retard you could?

        https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world -factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

        Adding up the UK, France, Germany alone puts you at over 15.5 trillion external debt. 5.5 trillion more than the US.
  • anonimuso, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5Yes, America is the worst place on earth.

    Why are you people always SEARCHING for something to bash the United States with? Americans could not care less about the E.U., and with good reason. The U.S. still has the most productive economy in the world, still more productive than China and India, and certainly more productive than the E.U. If there's anyone to worry about, it would be the asian nations. But that's besides the point. Your hatred of the U.S., which is evidenced by your perpetual search for anything with which to show just how terrible YOUR OWN country is. Well, if Europe is so great...I mean, you know what i'm going to say (get the fudge out).
    • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5FYI. The main reason America gets so much hostility these days (including from Americans that love their country)....

      A. It is currently being run by a bunch of violent extremist nuts bent on war.
      B. It is currently being run by a bunch of violent extremist nuts bent on war.

      Pew polls will back me in this,. This level of hostility and anti-Americanism did not exist before Bush decided to unilaterally invade Iraq (for no reason other than to suck up to the violent rightwing Israeli lobby and a few nutbar christian evangelists that are aiming for the end-of-days). Now they want to attack Iran and are using the exact same arguments as with Iraq. And who will be next after that? Syria? Saudi Arabia? And how exactly are we supposed to get these countries to later love us if we kill their families on their own soil?

      So it seems reasonable the first step towards finding a solution involves getting rid of the nuts. I did my part leading up to getting Republicans booted out of Congress. Next stop the Presidency. And incidentally... I'm starting to think some of the Democrats are also POS. They were elected to get us the hell out of Iraq and to start patching up international relations Unfortunately that traitor Hillary and Pelosi LIED to us and now appear to be hawks that like to whine about Bush to get votes... then proceed to do nothing when handed the mandate to do so.

      I'm not Libertarian in the least,,, but I would even endure a term of Ron Paul to get us out of fighting a war in middle east countries we don't belong in and that didn't attack us. So the lesson here is mpt "get the fudge out"... it's whomever useless politician can not perform their duty (which should be towards the will of :"we the people") is going to continue hearing from us big time leading up to the next election.

      If it takes the seeds of new parties and independents to start weeding out these pompous, wasteful and violent clowns... then so be it.

      • anonimuso, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Ok, those violent extremist nuts got elected. You want to change who runs the country, join a party that can win a damn election and not turn their back after they swindle you into voting for them (cough..democrats...cough).
    • Croaton, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Are you really that ignorant? (and I'm using "you" in the individual sense not as in "you americans")

      The article points out myths about "sick old Europe". How on earth do you make that out to "something to bash the United States with".

      The article states that things in Europe aren't as bad as most people try to portray it. (and those "most people" are usually from the US, sadly)

      Your omission that "americans could not care less about the E.U." is just a sad comment that componds the perception of the ignorant and ranting american who's to afraid to look beyond it's boarder... yet still witholds the notion that he knows best...

      Sad indeed...
    • jizzlies, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Can't we just all get along?
  • ramiro, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Europe is getting better because they are tired of the welfare BS and are electing RIGHT WINGERS.
    • there, on 10/19/2007, -2/+9 Europe's right wingers are left of American's left wingers. Europeans already have universal healthcare for quite some time. while Democrats have only been talking about it for 40 years.

      In Europe rightwingers that remotely suggested getting rid of public healthcare they would probably be kicked out of office.... by their own party. In fact I believe universal health care was actually introduced by some rightwing parties in some instances.
  • mpeg2tom, on 10/10/2007, -5/+21) The sclerotic European economy is incapable of leading the world.

    Myth? 2Q07 EU GDP growth was 0.3%...that's just a hair above a recession.

    It is true in the last two years that Euro growth has begun to rise, but there were many years with Euro growth only around 1%.

    There are also big differences between the "economically free" countries like England (2.8% growth in 2006), Switzerland (2.7%), and now Ireland (raging growth averaging 6% in 1995-2006), and the less economically free large economies of Germany, France, and Italy. Germany had an average growth rate of 0.7% between 2001-05, Italy had 1.9% growth in 2006, France had 2.2% growth in 2006, compared with 2.9% growth for the US in 2006.

    Now I'll admit the US may face some short-term growth problems of its own this year, and perhaps instead of blowing more money on wars and such we should be adopting more pro-growth policies, and it is true that even in France and Germany there are slowly pro-market reforms going on, but France, Germany, and Italy are still about 30% less vital in terms of economic growth than the U.S.
    • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5 Your cherrypicked figures don't take into account the enormous costs countries like Germany have incurred by investing into poorer parts of Europe (including many that were once communist) and bringing them up to EU standards. Imagine America pouring countless billions into making Mexico a first world country. (Not that the American government would ever dream of such a thing as helping its own citizens... much less the citizens of another nation)

      When you consider this enormous transfer of wealth, loans, taxpayer transfer payments to these areas... and see just how much they have achieved in ten years..... then the picture of just how much Europe has accomplished is quite remarkable. In about 10 years, when all the nations are close to par... I think Europe is going to regain its mantle it lost because of two WWs started by xenophobic elitist extremists.

      • anonimuso, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Well then let's not forget the fact that Europe was allowed to put in place those programs and investments because they did not have to build up a military arsenal to protect themselves from the U.S.S.R. That was our job (remember M.A.D. and how we forced Russia to spend so much to try and keep up with us that they went nearly bankrupt).

        As for Americans not wanting to help another country...

        WWI
        WWII
        Marshall Plan
        ECSC (early foundations of European Union)
        Breaking the back of the Soviet Union so that they didn't crush a weak Europe and Central Asia.

        Just a few cases of us lending a helping hand.

        Damn, that was such uber pwnage.
        • there, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3- WWI ... America waited till long after Europe was in all out war.
          - WW2... America waited long after Europe was at war.... and may have even not joined even then were it not Pearl Harbour.
          - Marshall Plan was helpful and a good idea but it was mostly based on the observation peace treaties like Versaile