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195 Comments
- sethosayher, on 10/19/2007, -8/+77I have family in the Prison system...now they deserve being there, but those who get carted off to jail because of Marijuana possession or whatnot certainly do not. It's absolutely incredible to me that so many non-violent criminals get 5 or more years of their lives robbed from them because they did something that didn't harm or affect anyone besides themselves (and it's questionable if they 'harmed' themselves anyway). Isn't it incredible that the United States, supposedly the model of a free government, has the biggest Prison Population? And the sickest part of it all is that many who get picked up because of Drug Possession stay in the Prison system for much longer then their sentences demand because they get into conflicts and get more prison time as a result. This "war on drugs" is a huge drain on our resources and on peoples lives.
- katie212, on 10/14/2007, -10/+29The U.S. prison system is BIG business and extremely corrupt. The more people that they can put in prison, the more money it makes. Just think about how much the average prisoner costs the taxpayers annually and you will understand its an out of control government entity. It doesnot try to reform the offenders whatsoever in hopes that they will repeat their usual behaviors and stay in the system and sad but true...they usually do .
- dooglio, on 10/14/2007, -8/+23Is prison always the answer? Libertarian scholars say in some cases you could have the offender pay restitution in one form or another. But it seems we punish all wrongdoers with either fines or prison or both. Maybe someone who embezzles money must pay what he took back, or be required to work for free, or something like that. I think there are alternatives, but response you get from most people is "it won't work, prison is the only answer."
- chase001, on 10/19/2007, -7/+20Prison is condemning them to a life of crime.
- AmericanJackass, on 10/21/2007, -2/+14Perhaps the true question should be: Why do so many people in America do things that our justice system considers to be worthy of a prison sentence?
Drugs: This one seems easy. This is escapism pure and simple. Look at the way that most Americans are forced to live. It is the 8 hours to work, 8 hours to play, 8 hours to sleep idea from the movie They Live. Of course, without living wages and with long commutes this is coming closer and closer to 16 hours to work (or more), 8 hours to sleep. And these are the individuals with jobs. The unemployed often suffer from understandable feelings of hopelessness, drugs allow a sense of escape from this hopelessness. This is compounded by highly addictive drugs, such as crack and heroin. An individual needs to only slip once or twice into these drugs to become hooked for life.
Theft: This has a lot to do with income disparity in our country. When a poor man sees a rich man driving a fancy SUV, and the poor man can't even afford to feed his family, there are going to be significant feelings of resentment. The rich man can feed his kids, why can't I feed my kids? The rich man has a house, why can't I have a house? This is the issue that is often disguised by the issue of race. The true issue is class. For the poor black man, the rich black man is a greater enemy than the poor white man. The issue of race clouds the true injustice, which is the way the rich exploit the poor.
Violent Crime: I think that there are two classes here. Gang related violent crime and non-gang related violent crime. The first class requires an inquiry into the appeal of gangs. This is pure opinion (so feel free to ignore me) but it appears that American Culture has very little to offer many youths. Gangs originated in low income areas, but there has been a growth in suburban "gangs." The reasons are similar; the need to belong to something greater than yourself, the need for respect. Respect that the American system simply doesn't give to many youths. Non-gang related violent crime is exacerbated by a failure to adequately support individuals that are either mentally infirm or have grown up in very unsupportive environments. This can lead to a great deal of hostility towards the world as a whole. These outsiders often have intense feelings of resentment that breeds violence.
White Collar Crime: This is greed pure and simple. I don't think there is really a way to reduce white collar crime. With the other categories you can combat the underlying causes; poverty, inadequate rehabilitation (prison systems are essentially crime training grounds), inadequate support troubled youths etc. How do you combat human greed?
To quote someone much greater than myself: "Instead of a war on poverty, they got a war on drugs so the police can bother me." - Tupac Shakur - saltywings, on 10/14/2007, -2/+12We should probably be focusing more on putting drug abusers into rehab and probably not into jail that might decrease numbers of who is actually in jail and it might also help non-violent offenders lead a better life.
- atdigg, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Some people deserve being in jail, but people who only did harm to themselves why should they be sent to jail, to learn there how to harm other people?
- metapop, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10you didn't mention what those gang buddies do to you at night. there's your deterrent.
- maz2331, on 10/14/2007, -1/+9It's also greater than the entire population of Utah. Imagine every man, woman, and child in the state behind bars and we see the scale of the problem. Add those currently also on probation, and we're talking more than the entire population of Virginia. Heck, the prison/probation population could have quite a few electoral votes.
- Y2JCrisis, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11There are a lot of people in prison who are non-violent offenders. It's a shame that our justice system took a turn towards punishment in the 1970's rather than rehabilitation. The point of prison in the first place was supposed to be rehabilitation. To make a person a worthwhile member of society.
- SeethisPass, on 10/14/2007, -8/+16We are all like farm crops for the powers that be. Some of us are a crop of free labor in prison, who pay prison Corporations for the privledge of being locked up. Some of us are crops of credit card slaves who work for little else but to pay 'back' debt that has been created by harsh and greedy interest rates and penalties, Some of us are crops of military fodder, " homowners", voters, consumers,shoppers,cheap labor, on and on.
Grow little crops, grow, and look, here they are again with their newest load of fertilizer to dump over our heads.
There is freedom here though, We're all as free as the cows and the corn. Smile in the sunshine all of you fatted calves and corn plants.
Oh, Look! Here comes farmer Corporate J. Politician with his wheel barrow and an axe Isn't it a pleasant day? - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -7/+13So so naive
- AmericanJackass, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8I need to apologize. I inadvertently used the phrase "The issue of race clouds the true injustice ..." In no way or form did I mean to state or imply that racism is not an injustice. Racism is the last refuge for the ignorant, hateful, and useless members of our society. I truly apologize if I appear to marginalize the problems created by racism. I was simply attempting to emphasize the problems created by classism.
- amoro99, on 10/14/2007, -0/+6Victimless crime might be more appropriate
- RonBurgundy76, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8She didn't say it made money for your county or your local government, you rude *****. But, they're paying someone, somewhere to run that prison with lots of your tax dollars. Why is it that difficult to understand?
- lattethunder, on 10/14/2007, -4/+10The prison system is the biggest domestic issue no one's talking about. Completely ***** up. I'm not a proponent of the death penalty at all, but what's the effing sense of a life sentence with no parole? Just execute them in that case! Doesn't that count as cruel and unusual punishment? What happened to reform and rehabilitation? And the more prisons become privatized, the more money there will to be earned by throwing dudes puffing on joints in the clink.
- Yurhiness, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Empty heads echo. It was already stuck in my head before I got to this comment.
- WarpFox, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10"We cannot force anyone to provide restitution"
Are you stupid? Courts order restitution be paid every day. I've even been ordered to pay some. If you, say, damage some property, then they can and will order you to pay for it.
"Generally those committing crimes that facilitate incarceration are already destitute and would not be able to pay restitution anyway."
Yes, like the owners of million dollar businesses i've smoked pot with or founders of events with worldwide recognition i've done cocaine with. These are your hardcore, violent career criminals. You know, the ones that are far more successful than you will ever be.
I bet you avoid black neighborhoods like the plague. Go back to fox news and get off my internet please. - CasaWood, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Good catch on the math...I apologize for the obvious error on the percentage of citizens in jail.
However, the New York City population is based on the U.S. Census Bureau estimates for 2005 and is for the city while the 19 million figure is for the entire greater New York area not the city itself.
It appears to be 1 to 1 regarding figures but I was in error on the percentage not on the research data itself, my bad! However, the sad fact is we still have more people locked up in the U.S. than any other country. I do apologize to all readers for the math error, unacceptable! - mrjit, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7I didn't make it past this line; "Do you think we’re free? Every day we hear that is the reason for fighting wars, to protect our freedom. Ask 100 people why we are fighting any war and the majority will answer in a single word, freedom."
What is this 1950? I don't think anyone believes we're fighting for "freedom" at least not the genuii that inhabit digg. - neuropsychguy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Ok, since so many people are bringing up non-violent crimes, let's look at the statistics (from 2002 at least - http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pnoesp.pdf ). These are from people getting out of prison.
An estimated 95% of nonviolent releasees had an arrest history preceding the arrest which resulted in their imprisonment (table 6).
• More than 80% of those nonviolent offenders released from prison have a prior conviction history.
• On average, the RAP sheets of nonviolent offenders discharged from prison indicated 9.3 prior arrests and 4.1 prior convictions.
• Among nonviolent offenders, about a third had a history of arrests for violent crimes. One in five had a self-reported history of convictions for violence (table 7).
• On average, nonviolent offenders discharged had received a sentence of about 52 months and had served an average of 16 months, about a third of their
sentence, prior to discharge (table 8).
• About 8% of nonviolent offenders used a weapon during the current offense (table 9).
• In the aggregate, nonviolent offenders awaiting release from prison were largely serious offenders as indicated by several criteria. An estimated 88% of
these offenders reported one of the following:
— use of a weapon in the current offense (8%)
— a prior violent conviction (22%)
— committing the current offense while
on probation, parole, or escape (64%)
— two or more prior sentences (65%).
• Within 3 years of their release from prison, about 7 in 10 nonviolent releasees were rearrested for a new crime; nearly half were reconvicted; and more than a quarter were returned to prison (table 10).
• Among nonviolent releasees, about 1 in 5 were rearrested for a violent crime within 3 years of discharge (table 11).
Again, see the link (above) for the tables. - mrogi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6In order to preserve our freedom, it is absolutely imperative that we incarcerate murderers, muggers, rapists, marauders, and assorted violent psychos who brutalize and abuse women, children and old folks. If the scumbags are allowed to run free it jeopardizes the life, liberty and freedoms of the entire society. More ***** in prison = more freedom for the decent and law-abiding.
- skrowl, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5'Freedom' does not mean 'Freedom to commit crimes'
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Wait, does that include Romney? I'm starting to imagine :D
- CasaWood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5That is a very good perspective to place on the situation. When we pause to really balance the numbers with these pictures it becomes clear we either are a society filled with the worst of mankind or there may be some laws on the books which are questionable. There is a balance between the necessary laws for protecting the whole of the people and there are the laws that lock up those not harming others. Thanks for the strong visual in your reply.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I must say it is refreshing that the visible comments aren't of the conservative/liberal argument variety.
- XISUPERMANIX, on 10/14/2007, -2/+6Prison is a lost hope. Over half of the people there, end up there again once released. I don't believe there is any rehab, or a lesson to be learned like if you do this your freedom will be taken away. For gang members, jail is their home away from home, they have people from their gang in the prison, a lesser chance of being shot and they can still run the streets from jail. I believe all prisoners should undergo some sort of therapy so they can find out what the problem is and actually try to fix it, rather than ignore it.
- eth3l, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Better in jail than living next door to you.
- RonBurgundy76, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5And some of us are just ***** that rip on other people for no good reason, while offering nothing to the discussion. Take you and I, for example.
- ibookfast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Prisons are Graduate Schools of Criminology, society shots itself in the foot creating more prisons/prisoners. Anyone else see a problem with privatizing prisons? What happens if the market starts to shrink? How will they expand it? Scary. If only people actually listened to Jesus or B.F. Skinner... they basically said punishment doesn't work, which is true. Love is a better motivator than fear for 'doing the right thing'.
- KevenM, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5WOW, so you should just let everyone out? I do not understand the point you were attempting to make.
- Frostman3D, on 10/14/2007, -0/+4legalize weed and watch the population dwindle.
- Barbarino, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Only if rehab worked which it does not. Habitual offenders usually are in the jail system, not one time offenders.
- gn0stik, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6legalize it.
- jmiller520, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5It's not like you can steal a car by accident, you know.
- vulapine, on 10/14/2007, -3/+7Burgluary is a nonviolent crime, Identity theft is a nonviolent crime, theft is a nonviloent crime if no threats are made and no weapons involved, Forgery is a nonviolent crime, counterfeiting is a nonviolent crime, fraud is a nonviolent crime.Tampering with food is a nonviolent crime, vandalism is a nonviolent crime,
I understand that the point of the article is (round about) is trying to say, "the guy who sits around and smokes pot isn't going to hurt anyone" (nevermind a dealer who carries a pistol and is willing to use it). Call a spade a spade. If you are arguing for letting drug offenders out of prison, say that. Don't just say nonviolent offenders aren't hurting anyone. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Why is 3 strikes ignorant? It seems to me that if you commit three serious crimes, you should have an extended sentence. It's also called the "habitual offender rule" and I like having habitual offenders in prison.
- CasaWood, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Victims is a key to whether violence was perpetrated. This is no way sympathizes the criminal causing harm to a person in body or property, etc. This attempts to speak to the laws that lock away the non-violent, the 'criminals' created by an improper law. There is no sympathy for the truly criminal, at least that was not the intent.
- eth3l, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Freedom is not a guaranteed Right.
We are not truly free, never have been. Its a nice word to throw out there to rally behind a cause. Its also easier to tell a group "freedom" then explain the Declaration of Independence and its relationship tot he Constitution.
People get "Freedom" they do not get: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Notice that "Freedom" is absent. And it is absent from the Preamble of The Constitution: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
What is important is this: "...to secure the blessings of Liberty ..." and "e...establish justice..." Understand fully what Liberty is and understand what Justice is and you may one day fully understand our government. For it was establish to protect Liberty, as all men are created equal. This does not mean equality of outcome, but we are all equal at birth - that is we have our free-will to do as we please, so long as we do NOT infringe the Liberty of others. Liberty is protected by Justice. I hope someone on Digg understand this ***** besides me.
On to the Justice system. It is imperfect. Every fair justice system is imperfect. The only perfect system of justice is totalitarianism - where everyone is guilty. Where facts are equally weighed against the law, some offenders that should be punished are let go and some innocent people are imprisoned. It is the price of Liberty. - neuropsychguy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Also don't forget that "State prisoners had a 19% lower death rate than the adult U.S. resident population; among blacks, the mortality rate was 57% lower among prisoners" (source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/mcdsp04.txt ...
So prisoners get better medical care, on average, than does the general medical population. Ok, that was making a big assumption - they could have been healthier to start out with (also younger) - but they do receive good medical care as well. - eth3l, on 10/14/2007, -2/+5Each of these non-violent crimes infringes liberty
- rangerjoe8999, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Your math is what's in error americymru. The 7% number includes probation and parole. the actual prison population federal, state, and local is around 0.7% (2,245,189)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm - jmiller520, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Well, you don't have to legalize weed to stop sending people to jail for possession.
- AntiMe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Any member of a known violent gang should be on a shoot on sight order. It's about the only way to deal with it.
- mjw2025, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Free societies always have more crime compared to one with a repressive government. One of the prices we pay for freedom.
- RonBurgundy76, on 10/14/2007, -1/+4I think the whole point is that nonviolent offenders shouldn't be in jail at all. They SHOULD be forced to make reparations for what they have done and undergo some rehab or whatever if it's necessary, but just throwing them in jail is pointless and only costs us more money.
- CasaWood, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It is more than just a marijuana issue...the poorly crafted laws covering a number of areas of perceived 'violations' that bring jail time needs to be reviewed and addressed so there can be a correction to the point where the justice system focuses on locking away the criminal rather than those that are not. Legalizing MJ is a part but only a small part to the larger problem, IMHO.
- designer, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6I think all the people that bitch about how many people are in jail should get together and do an adopt a criminal program. Take them into your homes and trust them to not reoffend.
- RonBurgundy76, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5What about corrupt cops? They're members of a violent gang...
- mosler, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4A Turkish prison is built all under ground. with the lowest level being reserved for the worst offenders.
when there are riots or things get out of control, the just turn on the water.
the thought of drowning keeps people in line. -
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