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631 Comments
- zlintux, on 10/11/2007, -42/+545She maliciously targeted two of her classmates with hateful fliers, and was denied bail with the judge "citing her home environment and already lengthy juvenile record — 13 run-ins with the cops."
So it is not so much what she did, but where she'd be placed. For all we know, the parents are drug addicts who didn't even bother showing up to the hearing and the judge thought she would be better off in juvenile hall.. perhaps prior acts resulted in other judges giving her leniency in exchange for good behaviour, and her arrest puts her in violation of that. We don't know, and because she is a minor, we won't know. Give the judge the benefit of the doubt.
Oh, and to whomever wrote the blog:
"It should be noted that they have not yet been tried, only charged."
No one who has already been tried is offered bail. They're either incarcerated or not... - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -51/+529I don't know if God hates fags -- but I'm pretty sure he hates trailer homes.
- OneHine, on 10/11/2007, -34/+460It is quite interesting that anytime someone tells me what God wants, it just happens to be what that person wants as well. And when they tell me who God hates, amazingly, it's who they hate as well!
It's increasingly obvious that whenever someone attributes some opinion or claim to God, it's not because that claim is well-supported by the facts, but because the claim is either completely unsupported or even disproved by the facts and the claimant merely wants to counter criticism with "How dare you question God?!" Frankly, it's time we started questioning these kooks instead of acting as though religion is a topic above criticism. - MadRat779, on 10/11/2007, -55/+442And this it why Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
- vvargoal, on 10/11/2007, -112/+341Hate crime laws are absurd. Free speech is all fine an good... just so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. We wouldn't want to upset anyone.
- amoirae, on 10/11/2007, -19/+187The girl who was jailed had other priors on her rap sheet that she was being held for.
It's dishonest to make it seem like she was being held because of the flyer. - carmaa, on 10/11/2007, -36/+174@gimory: Quote Voltaire all you want, you still can't use freedom of speech as an excuse for acting like an *****. These two girls were targeting people with malicious intent, and that has nothing to do with the 1st amendment. This is harassment.
- glmory, on 10/11/2007, -62/+182I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
I really don't see how this isn't simply a freedom of speech issue. Its pretty clear more than one religion says god hates gay people. I can't say I agree with a word of it, but to arrest someone because their viewpoint is unpopular, or even downright wrong? Talk about a slippery slope... - j4200, on 10/11/2007, -44/+156Digg has the most uninformed debates on free speech ever. Everyone here seems to think that any kind of action against anything is censorship. There's a difference between having rights and abusing rights.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+101@jeffiek
http://www.dailyherald.com/search/printstory.asp?id=315686
"The girl’s record, Chmiel said, features 13 contacts with police, including an arrest for marijuana possession in August. McHenry County court records show that within the past year the girl also has been charged for driving without a license, consumption of alcohol by a minor, possession of tobacco by a minor, trespassing and three curfew violations.
“I’m concerned about you having some potentially negative influences around you,” Chmiel told her. “I think the environment is ripe for failure.”
13?!?! She was a practically a regular. How many times do you have to get arrested/"talked to" by the cops before something is done? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 12 times..ya can't fool me again. The judge's decision was a logical one. - shadus, on 10/11/2007, -90/+154Bravo Judge, Bravo.
- maninblac1, on 10/11/2007, -11/+67I think the judge here is right, if this girl who is obviously a trouble maker with a supposed 13 previous arrests, or citations. She's only 16 after all, i'm thinking that some harsh correction is in order. I don't care if she was spouting hate speech, or selling handjobs, her history is enough to have her "jailed".
I also think the, "she's just a teenager" defense is bullcrap. How many of you, when you were 15, or 16 etc, knew exactly what kind of trouble you were getting into. These aren't dumb kids and they need to be held accountable for their actions, as should their parents. - Cerialthriller, on 10/11/2007, -10/+65to anyone who thinks this girl shouldnt get in trouble for this, im guessing you wouldnt mind if i went to your school, job, family whatever and handed out a photo of you and a little boy saying God Hates molesters? Because im sure it wouldnt damage your reputation at school, work, whatever. It's not about free speech, its about some kid who has to go to school everyday knowing that all of the people in his school have seen pictures of him kissing another guy. ***** like this can ***** people up for the rest of thier lives. I know alot of you christians dont believe in psychology or mental stress type conditions, but they are real. Something like this could ruin a persons life, career, and mental functionality.
- glasnostic, on 10/11/2007, -7/+55@vvargoal
“Hate crime laws are absurd”
I think what you mean to say is that hate speech laws are absurd. And for the most part they don’t even exist, you can’t incite violence but you say all day that ***** and gooks should go to hell without fear of being arrested.
What most people are forgetting is that this occurred on a high school campus. And I don’t know about you guys but my high school campus was not a place where freedom of speech was a protected right. The courts have upheld time and time again, rulings which strip students of all but the most basic rights while on campus. We all have our opinions on this and our reasoning behind this but make no mistake. Had she been handing these flyers out at the mall, there would have been no arrest. - WoollyMittens, on 10/11/2007, -7/+53Why? She used someone's photo for a hate flyer. What the hell do you think will happen to you if you took a photo of your neighbour and spread it around town with the words "God hates nazis" chalked over it?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -13/+54The pathetic irony is, that its the Christians who are the ones helping turn Amerika into a Police State.
- upenox, on 10/11/2007, -12/+51I agree with khemikl. People need to live their own ***** lives and quit being so god damned concerned with how other people are living theirs. If you don't agree with homosexuality, then DON'T ***** PRACTICE IT. Society is getting insanely pathetic and honestly, we'd be better off without these kinds of people.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -9/+45"What's next, prison terms for short skirts?"
Oh Yeess and sexy prison videos... - BlindingEdge, on 10/11/2007, -8/+43yeah, maybe they will have vocabulary lessons on them. "in sane" ......hahahaha!
- AxeSwinger, on 10/11/2007, -11/+44
@glmory
I don't really know how I feel about hate crimes. I'm certainly not for the crime but I don't know about the protected status it appears to create but thats my me.
This is not a case of free speech. The two girls took pictures of a private individual, one who was not in the public eye and targeted him with threatening in speech. This is not protected speech since they are infringing on the victims anonymity. If they passed out fliers without identifying the victim it might be considered free speech but since I did not see the flyer I can't say.
At least thats how I understand free speech laws. - uglypug, on 10/11/2007, -9/+401). I'm dumbfounded that no one here has ever seen a 16 yr old girl trying to draw attention to herself. Throw a scare into her, get the hormones under control, maybe a little therapy, and she'll be fine, hopefully.
2). I have an athletic son about this age, who happens to have a gay teammate. I asked him if he was uncomfortable with that, and his answer was "no, he's one of the best guys on the team." He knows instinctively that a lifestyle choice has nothing to do with success in the real world.
3). God hates no one. - Chebyshev, on 10/11/2007, -1/+31@iceperson
Funny, I've never had an Atheist show up at my house uninvited to tell me how God isn't real. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -57/+83"Bravo Judge, Bravo."
really? what if the next judge is a racist? or an religious fanatic? or an ultra-conservative? or a lunatic?
would you cheer that judge punishing people for saying things he doesn't like, too?
the problem with supporting restriction of speech is that it allows for people you don't agree with to silence you, as well. - tacodealer, on 10/11/2007, -7/+30How is it that this chick knows god hates gays? Maybe he IS gay and has yet to announce his "coming out" party. Clearly she doesn't know the will of god otherwise she'd know that he doesn't need her to speak for him, nor does he need door-to-door salesmen selling his name. It probably doesn't matter that she was denied bail though...from what I hear he's not very good with money. : (
- PhairOh, on 10/11/2007, -6/+26Doesn't anyone find it interesting that "God Hates Fags" but drugs, alcohol, trespassing, and driving without a license are all ok with him?
- Nodaki, on 10/11/2007, -8/+27God hates theists.
- revenge7, on 10/11/2007, -2/+21Look up "Westboro Baptist Church"
- obrysii, on 10/11/2007, -5/+20The bible also says that shaving your beard or eating shrimp is an abomination. Strange how these people can ignore that, but not the homosexual part.
That is why organized religion is bad. Religion itself? A wonderful thing. Organized religion? It's ripe for corruption.
I mean, think of it this way. What is Jesus' core teaching? Love, peace, and faith. What is the Church's core teaching? YOU WILL BURN IN HELL!!!!
It's so backwards. Everything the church has done since His death is totally counter to what Jesus taught.
And sadly, most people do not realize that religion =/ organized religion. - eje211, on 10/11/2007, -10/+25Being gay is not a choice. Being out is. Staying in the closet is a horrible thing to go through. It's not a choice.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20If you're not out of your mind you're in sane.
- cawpin, on 10/11/2007, -6/+19"In short, she is a mischievous teenager no different than most other mischievous teenagers."
That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. I was a mischievous teenager and I never got arrested, not even close. This girl is a trouble maker who got caught. - CraigJ, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14I went to middle and high school in McHenry. This place is the very definition of a podunk jerkwater town populated by a large number of ignorant bible thumpers. One of the worst things that ever happened to me was when we moved there in 1977. The best was moving to Arizona in 1983. Good riddance.
- Chebyshev, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15There are a lot of free speech rants on here. Free speech isn't even the issue here. What these girls did was obviously harassment and illegal because it targeted certain individuals, not to mention doing it on a high school campus.
One issue is whether "hate crimes" (like this one) are somehow worse than regular crimes and deserve stiffer punishments. I never really understood why killing someone because they are black is worse than killing them because they owe you money or slept with your wife. The person is still dead.
Another issue is whether it is reasonable for the judge to deny bail to this girl. The judge said he did it because she has priors and her home life apparently isn't ideal. IANAL, but the author of the article makes a good point: doesn't the Department of Social Services handle child abuse or neglect? Shouldn't the judge perhaps refer the case to them instead of locking her in juvi (which I find hard to believe is better than her home life)? - TheCooler72, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14God doesn't hate ANYONE! That's the whole point of the religion in which this WBC people supposedly believe.
- frimple, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15Insane: posting the same drivel over and over and expecting different diggs.
- TomorrowLand, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14I'm wondering if this is just an isolated incident or part of some larger movement among young people to be more religious and right-wing than previous generations of teenagers. I really hope not.
- EvilStickMan, on 10/11/2007, -5/+17@arainach
It is easy to abuse free speech. Imagine that I am in charge of a large group of people. Let's say I give violent, rhetoric-backed, venom-filled rants to this group of people on a subject with clear divisions - like "God Hates Fags". All I would have to do is give a particularly fervent speech, and end it with "I am now telling each and every one of you that you need to go out and kill a homosexual. The abomination must end!" and I've suddenly abused free speech.
There's a thin line between hateful speech which is free, and speech which incites individuals into improper action. Shouting "FIRE!" in a movie theater is not protected free speech (don't know if shouting "SHARK!" at a beach is the same), as is threatening to kill someone (I believe - please correct me here). If this wasn't the case, there'd be freedom without responsibility, and chaos would ensue. The above example is a case of the latter - the speech is free up until I use that speech to incite action, in which case it becomes an abuse of free speech and a public safety concern. - DeadBabySoup, on 10/11/2007, -11/+22Just goes to show that religion has never, and will never bring people together.
- lpmiller, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17Bull. freedom of speech means putting up with ***** you don't like. In fact, that's the whole point of freedom in general.
- almostmanda, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13@glasnostic:
You're incorrect.
"First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."
-Tinker Vs. Des Moines, 1969
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11"a judge rejected bond for one of the girls, citing her home environment and already lengthy juvenile record — 13 run-ins with the cops. ... Within the past year, the girl has been charged for marijuana possession, driving without a license, consumption of alcohol by a minor, possession of tobacco by a minor, trespassing and three curfew violations, according to McHenry County court records."
From http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/05/25/news/doc465598dd2a9a4253534068.txt
"I'm very nervous about your daughter being home without supervision," Chmiel told the girl's mother in court Tuesday. The mother responded, "We've had rough spots - lots of them." - pintomp3, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12yes, hitler would be proud of the gay-bashers. they are reviving his efforts.
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Only 5 million? Are you some sort of "Young Earth" creationist?
/s - 43percentburnt, on 10/11/2007, -6/+15"god hates us all" ~Slayer
- theragu40, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8@almostmanda
You can find court cases to back up a lot of points. You also might try using some more recent precedent.
Try this: "Fourth Amendment rights, no less than First and Fourteenth Amendment rights, are different in public schools than elsewhere" - Vernonia v. Acton (1995). http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0430_0651_ZS.html
Or this: "Significantly, this Court has previously held that "special needs" inhere in the public school context. See Vernonia, supra, at 653; T. L. O., supra, at 339-340. While schoolchildren do not shed their constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse, see Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School Dist., 393 U. S. 503, 506 (1969), [They] ... are different in public schools than elsewhere" - Board of Education v. Earls (2002). http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=01-332 - h3ndrix, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11The girls are obviously lesbians.
- mhensley1288, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11the point is that she very publicly embarassed 2 kids who, if they are homosexual, are going through a ***** enough time just being gay and in an american high school. people like her prey on others to feel better about themselves, and its despicable. so is you standing up for her. plus, depending on the political and religious make up of the town, these kids could be at risk for bodily harm if some meatheads decide "they dont like them no fags in school"
- glasnostic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9@member57
I think what sticks in the craw of most homosexuals, is that homosexuality is viewed as some great offence to god even though the bible is quite clear that all sins are equal. And nobody is holding those who cheat on their wives or get divorced or say god damn to the same kind of scrutiny that those who are homosexuals are held to.
On that same note, it is very clear that all sins are equal except that of rejecting Christ. Where are the picket signs out side synagogues? Homosexuals are being singled out as some great offence when people who are committing unforgivable sins are being propped up by these big mega churches.
Even GW Bush said he didn’t want to pick on the sinners (gays) when he himself is a sinner.
If you think somebody’s actions are immoral that’s fine but most Christians aren’t comfortable berating divorcées or Jews or graven image carvers, yet they will tell a homosexual to their face that they are ruining America and pissing off god. - masamunecyrus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11@zlintux:
That's exactly right. One of my distant relatives has a nephew (yea, redundant, I know) that was similarly placed in juvenile prison to keep him out of his home. His mother is a completely insane drunk and has called the police tons of times and lied saying that her son had been drinking (when, in fact, she's the one who's been drinking). To make a long story short, the kid needed to get away from his mother and after discussing it with lawyers, etc..., it was decided that it would be beneficial to arrest the kid and take him to juvenile so he can stay away from the home while they get him an alternative place to live. Apparently it's a pretty common practice to do when it's absolutely clear that the child needs to get out of the house, but an alternative home hasn't been found yet.
So this could be one of those cases where the kid has a crappy home life and needed to get out. Or the judge could be an ass, who knows. - HUKI365, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Surely enforcing a right to make sure other people don't express there opinions is just as harsh as someone expressing there opinion.
Before you start on the whole "force it on me" line - what is the difference between "forcing it" on people, and being allowed to profess an opinion. there is none mate. The only difference is in what YOU do with your life. Ignore them, but don't campaign to shut them up, because: "They came for the Communists and I did nothing, They came for the Jews and I did nothing, and then they came for me, and there was nobody to speak up." -
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