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90 Comments
- MoeB, on 10/11/2007, -0/+39http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/pachinko/upscaler005.jpg
before: http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w308/deathchariotlol/100.jpg
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before: http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/4679/mgs3s01bgn2.jpg
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after: http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e261/terranz22/GOWcomp2.jpg
DVD upscaling: http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/wifebeatingproductions2/100_3777.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/wifebeatingproductions2/100_3774.jpg
before: http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/chrisnon.jpg
after: http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/chrisfilter.jpg - jostheller, on 10/11/2007, -11/+42I am tired of people making comments like this. 1080i is a smaller data packet rate. Thus if you have a 720p signal and you want it converted to your native 1080i TV, then you must "downscale" (not upscale) the image. The progressive image has 720 lines every frame, where as the 1080i has 540 lines every frame (interlaced) to create a 1080i image.
And honestly, digital interlaced TV's should not be a standard. Interlacing your image made sense on the old analog tubes.. It no longer makes sense with digital TV's and digital signals. It bothers me that interlaced signals were included in that spec. It is a shame... - oldtimegamer, on 10/11/2007, -10/+32I still cant even tell the difference between the two. you must be ninjas
- cthellis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17@ amalgamutt
"Why is the comment about the lack of a dedicated scaling chip getting buried?
The 360 has the dedicated chip and the PS3 doesn't.
These are facts, but I guess fanbois will be fanbois."
They're burying them because it does. http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/16/
Don't ask me why it's taken so long to expose it, however, nor why 720p -> 1080i is still excluded. - vancanucksfan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15WOW, upscaling is better than my denon 1080p upscaling DVD player. it looks really nice.
also another thing i just discovered, BluRay will play in 720p now, even if your set doesn't support 1080i/p. I just hooked it up to a computer lcd monitor, set it to 720p and it worked, ha. Go Sony - DaRizat, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19More processor time is required to change a 720p signal to a 1080i signal, is what I meant.
The 720p progressive image must be de-interlaced to play at 1080i, and because of the split frame way 1080i is displayed, it leads to jagged edges and generally lower picture quality ESPECIALLY for sports and videogames.
For gaming 720p is vastly superior. - oldtimegamer, on 10/11/2007, -8/+23Maybe you should check your internet
- djSyndrome, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17I think the concern is for people whose TVs support 1080i but not 720p (most 'HD' TVs made around the turn of the century). These folks still have no option to play 720p PS3 games in anything but 480p.
- PleaseJustDie, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16That's not entirely accurate.
1080i is interlaced meaning half the image is sent then the other half is sent and the two images are pieced together to see one whole image on the screen. It will send every other line of information on the first pass and then on the second pass it will send every other line alternate to the first pass to fill in the gaps. The result is on fast moving information there might be a greater jaggie appearance as half the image is updated around the other half before the second half catches up. Now 1080p and 720p are progressive scan, that means the entire image is sent at once and not put together afterwards. The result is that twice as many "frames" are being sent with progressive scan over interlaced video.
Ultimately the quality of this will vary greatly. On games where action is slow and the motions aren't rapid you won't see a problem with 1080i. It won't appear any more jaggie or not, however you might see some discrepancies here and there as the screen attempts to keep up with the motion but it takes more effort to piece two images together instead of display 1 whole image.
Now on fast moving games and movies the progressive scan tends to really shine and even a 720p can look vastly better than 1080i because twice the number of frames are transmitted in the same time frame creating a much smoother cleaner motion and transition. Ultimately whether or not it looks better for you will vary on the size of your TV, the quality of the TV and the amount of motion in the image being sent to the TV.
Most people I know, who are in the know, will always do 720p over 1080i because 90% of the stuff they watch/play has a lot of fast moving action and the quality difference is noticeable. Though I do know a couple that will play/watch something in 1080i for a few minutes and then do it again in 720p to determine which is the most visually appealing to them.
Ultimately, which is better? It depends on what your doing and what equipment you have. So people should just try them both and see what they like better. However if you have 1080p available, it will always be better than anything 1080i or 720p can produce and you should go with that. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Do you even know what "Native rate" means when it applies to video displays? It refers to what the actual pixel count is in a fixed pixel array. If your display has 1280x768 pixels then its native rate is 1280x768 (or 720p). Your display might _accept_ signals from 480i/p, 720i/p, 1080i/p and then _scale_ it to the TVs native rate. That is all. If that scaling doesn't happen then a 640x480 image on a 1920x1080 display would only fill a very small rectangle in the middle of the screen.
- davidhildreth, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16have you any idea what you're talking about?
- teqonix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13I don't know if this is a placebo effect or not, but I swear that Kingdom Hearts 2 and MGS2 look a hell of a lot better than they did before upscaling was possible.
Also, apparently users can now watch BluRay movies in 720p, so no more flickering between 1080i and 720p anymore.
In short, awesome update. This thing actually seems worth the money I paid for it, now. - codelogic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12@azdraon
That's genius. Why don't you be the first to try that method out. - pooper, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Well, I tried upscaling and smoothing on FF XII and its does look noticeably better, unlike that crap the PS2 did with PSone games...
- truspector, on 10/11/2007, -10/+21Fanboys don't take kindly to facts.
- Assassa, on 10/11/2007, -4/+15PS3 Firmware v1.8 Available Now for North America [UPDATE]
* Scribbled on May 24th, 2007 by S Holmes
* Filed in Sony PlayStation 3, New Release(s), Firmware
PS3 Firmware Update v1.8
Sometime before 1:50am EST the latest version (1.8) of the PS3 firmware became available for North American users. My initial impression of the DVD upconversion quality is included below. But first, here is the full list of what was updated (as indicated during the installation process):
* You can now upscale the video content of PlayStation and PlayStation 2 format software to HD resolution.
* You can now copy saved data from Playstation and Playstation 2 format software to a memory card or memory card (8MB) (for PlayStation 2) using a memory card adaptor.
* You can now upscale video content of DVDs to HD resolution. However, some DVDs cannot be upconverted when outputting through component or D-terminal connectors.
* Support has been added to allow remote play over the Internet.
* You can now display image files and play music and video files that are saved on a remote device with service functionality (such as a PC or digital video recorder) over a network.
* Support for a print function has been added under [Photo]. For more information on supported printers, refer to the SCE Web site for your region.
* Support for zoom and trimming features has been added under [Photo].
* A new type of slideshow has been added as a feature under [Photo].
The update adds a button under the Picture, Music, and Video menus of the XMB titled “Search for Media Servers” and a button titled “Printer Settings” under the Settings menu. The new photo slideshow is similar to the original. However, instead of randomly dropping the photos on the screen, they are neatly aligned similar to a grid in an organized fashion of three horizontal rows which pans from right to left across the screen. Zooming in with the right analog stick will eventually cause the pictures to change alignment into one straight horizontal line. Zooming out will return it to the three horizontal lines/grid.
As for the DVD upconversion, sure enough, my Sharp 46 inch LCD TV is now displaying 1080p during normal DVD playback. However, before updating, I did a quick review of the picture quality in 28 Days Later and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest (SD). I paused the films at two different points for comparison before and after the update. I have to say that I have noticed no difference in the picture quality. Even watching the movies in full motion did not reveal any differences. This is obviously just a quick preliminary test, but as of now, I can’t report any improvement in the visual quality of standard definition DVDs (yes, I’m hooked up via HDMI). I should note that I’ve never used an upscaling DVD player before, so it’s possible my eyes are not accustomed to noticing the improvements upscaling provides. If anyone else has one or both of these movies, please post your impressions (I tested using images in the first two chapters).
[UPDATE] Since posting this article, I have noticed in the BD/DVD Settings menu that there is a “DVD Upscaler” option. It’s description is “Sets the display method for HD resolutions.” There are four settings for this option: Off, Double Scale, Normal, Full Screen. My impressions above were conducted with this set to “Normal.” I have not tested the other options.
[UPDATE 2] Opinions from other users are starting to pop up, most notably at the well-regarded AVSforum where most users seem pleased with the quality of the upconversion. I’m crossing my fingers that I’ll agree after some more testing!
[UPDATE 3] Sony really seems to have put a lot of work into v1.8. People are still discovering unannounced features to the update. One of which is that the DVD upscaler can be changed during playback of a DVD from the normal playback menu. Also, options for “Frame Noise Reduction,” “Block Noise Reduction,” and “Super-White” are all available from the playback menu. I don’t think we’ll be hearing too many complaints about this update. - pooper, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10i tried it last night along with the smoothing option and it works beautifully. the difference is actually noticeable
- Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Generally you don't notice it but for those of us with high end tv's or tv cards then the combing gets ultra bad, so a deinterlacer is needed, which affects the picture quality and motion quality, a progressive picture is far better quality because of this.
- arcooke, on 10/11/2007, -8/+17Coral Cache works fine.. give it a minute though.
http://www.gamestooge.com.nyud.net:8090/2007/05/24/ps3-firmware-v18-available-now-for-north-america/ - fallenone05, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9The ps3 that I have now is totally different from the machine that I bought. Sony is just making it better with every update, and giving my $600 more value by the update. I love my ps3! I;m off to amazon to get the 2 pirates movies on bu ray..
- zeejay, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Upscaling makes regular SD movies look slightly less ***** on an HD screen. But, bottom line, they still will look *****, especially up close. How much the quality bothers you is subjective, though.
Sounds to me like the PS3 is not just a cheap Blu-Ray player, but now a supremely kick-ass SD DVD player, especially with all those available options, if they work well. $600 just got a little more reasonable. A little, that is. - esotericguy, on 10/11/2007, -9/+18you wrote WAY too much.
dugg down for making me read. - Mejogid, on 10/11/2007, -6/+15What? 1080i has a high resolution but is interlaced, 720p has a significantly lower resolution but is progressive (roughly speaking it has twice the refresh rate). And you most definately wouldn't have to downscale 720p.
- cthellis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I hope you're doing a mock troll here, because otherwise you're not even trying.
Question 1: Was the Xbox 360 launched in May 2004, or November 2005?
Question 2: Does the Xbox 360 upconvert classic Xbox games?
Question 3: Does the Xbox 360 upconvert DVD's? - specialK16, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Interesting article; basically it says that the PS3 does have a scaling chip, but the first SDK Sony gave to developers didn't have anything about it, nor does consumers know about it. The January SDK update gives access to the chip, and it also says something about being horizontal but not vertical that I didn't understand... read it.
- InfiniteNothing, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8I just noticed my typo. I meant 540 * 1920 = 1,036,800 pixels per 1/60th of a second.
- thatsmyaibo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7"You can now display image files and play music and video files that are saved on a remote device with service functionality (such as a PC or digital video recorder) over a network."
This is awesome. - ilovethissite, on 10/11/2007, -6/+13jostheller
that may be but 540 lines interlaced to 1080 fields still technically display more than 720p albeit the vision is interlaced. - Almadiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I don't have an HDMI hookup so I don't know about the DVD upscaling, but the PS1/2 upscaling looks amazing. PS2 games in particular look very smooth and clean, with aliasing less noticeable than before, and much more uniform colors. PS2 games have never looked better.
- totorototoro, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Sounds like the geeks over at AVS forums are pretty pleased with it...and that is one difficult crowd to please. :p
- davidhildreth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I hope you are aware that there are few things more subjective than 720p/1080i.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6You guys have missed some of the best features of the 1.8 firmware update that apply to DVD and BD movies:
HDMI now supports the wider RGB colorspace as well as component video
HQV flags on DVDs are now passed
1080p/24 frames per second now passed
White level expansion flags on BD now recognized
Underscanning implemented
Sony Super Bit Mapping now functional for SACD
Everybody seems to think that how "good" Crash Bandicoot looks now is the biggest improvement. I have watched standard DVDs and 1080p/24hz movies on a Benq W10000 projector (.95 Darkchip 3, native 1080p) on a 122" screen and what it does now for DVDs is better than _any_ upscaling DVD player. And doing 24 frames per second on BD movies makes the viewing experience as close to film as possible now. - Zamfir, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Retarded.
- pixelate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5*bowmp chicka bowmp bowmp*
yeah you are - Ajajadude, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Do fanboys ever?
I'm beginning to absolutely love Thursdays, and not just because that's payday. - specialK16, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5lol
- inkubux, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4The ps3 getting good comments on Digg.. naaah it's impossible, I must be dreaming
- boscorelle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4read for yourself:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851628&page=1&pp=30 - OzBear, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Digital Zoom: 480 lines of video fill 1080 rows of pixels (crappy)
Upscaling: Interpolate missing information with algorithms that take motion into consideration. Needed for interlaced to progressive (not bad) - CoronaVegas, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Quick comparison with a standard DVD between PS3 upscaling and Sony DVP-NS70H upconverting DVD player= DVP-NS70H by a very noticeable difference. (Otherwise known as, "The wife could tell there was a picture quality difference".)
- michaelb1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7I'm going to try it tonight with Serenity.
- ausfahrt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Ok bury me whatever but i found the answer thanks. There is a setting in Tools > Game that u can set the upscaling from normal to full screen. Dunno if The Red Star looks any better but i know i saw the GOW 2 pics and it looks dope. I'm now buying it for sure.
- HBNDonut, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I dont know if the 360 upconverts Xbox games or not, but it does improve some aspects of games. On an HDTV games look more clean cut. But with some games, the 360 improves frame rates and draw distances etc. which is really cool.
I dont think it upscales DVDs. I never really use my Xbox360 for watching movies, but it would be a cool feature to have.
I'll stick with my 360. I wouldnt buy a PS3 because I'd rather have the console which works best for gaming and Im not that much of a movie buff. But those comparison shots look like the upscaling works great. I might be a little jealous. Just a little though. - TCRAZNPride, on 11/08/2007, -3/+4yeah when i downloaded it and tried to update it via my flashdrive, it said that the data was corrupted. i did this several times and i got frustrated so i downloaded from my PS3 and it worked fine.
- ausfahrt, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3If anyone wants to talk about their impressions of the upgrade can I have a moment ... Thanks.
I was just wondering if many have tried with ps2 games. I attempted last night and was totally owned when i found that my The Red Star now displays with two black bars on either side. Before it would stretch the 480 to fit the wide screen, which cause the normal distortion but a much larger area to navigate away from the heavy attack of your enemy. Now that it is upscaled it fits the screen it doesn't need to stretch, but why is it not 1920 X 1080. Is it just that the game doesn't do 16:9 aspect ratio?
Any other input would be appreciated. - xelloss, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Yes all Xbox 1 games are upscaled to 720p. And the 360 does up convert DVDs over VGA or HDMI.
- DarkShroud, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1The PS3 is just getting better and better. (Has pre-ordered and Is waiting patiently for MGS4 & GTA5 on PS3)
And no the 360 cannot upscale DVDs, DVD upscaling can only be done through HDMI. You know that thing MS said they didn't need. The Elite might be able to, if MS programmed it to. But Elite only uses HDMI 1.2 while the PS3 uses 1.3. So what was the point of including it if they didn't even go with the better version? I guess it was just to piss off people like me who were fooled into buying a new Pro only a few months before the Elite was announced.
I'm not a big fan of FPS so I don't care about the Hailos or Gears. (I was a Doom fan back in the day when it first came out.) Thus I haven't been all to excited with the 360 selections. I got DOA4 with my Pro, thank you Game Stop, and Condemned is an interesting game. But that's been about it for me. As for the backwards compatibility on the 360; the only game I really loved for the xBox didn't play in my 360 until only a few months ago, Fable the Lost Chapters. And now it has a black boarder on my 32" Sony Wega that supports 480i/p, 720p, & 1080i. Lucky for MS I'm still waiting for Fable 2. I'm waiting for the laser tvs to get a 40"-50" that supports 1080p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1The PS3 has no good features except relieving you of money you could use on other things. Go ahead Digg me down already.
- InitialDMP5, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2@typhoon
GT4 looked great on my 30 inch samsung at 1080i and my parents 42 inch pioneer plasma. I still liked playing at 480p though, it was smoother. - knodi, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Yawn, who about some good games!!
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