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64 Comments
- TheVirus, on 11/11/2008, -6/+26Render/Visual targets are hardly ever met because they are created when very little, other than the graphics code, is in place. Hell, most of the level is not even complete. It's to give the internal team an idea of the goal to achieve, not to give to marketing.
- knodi, on 11/11/2008, -8/+27they brought it on them selfs, well sony brought it on them by calming it was "100% in game render"
- zaffir, on 11/12/2008, -0/+16Not even graphics code is in place. It's a pre-rendered video that uses NO game code to be created. It's made with whatever tools the people behind the render decide - Maya, Blender, etc.
- Deepmist, on 11/12/2008, -3/+18No sympathy? They didn't show off the render at the press confrence saying this is what ps3 is capable of, that was all Sony.
- darkjolt, on 11/12/2008, -2/+16Final Fantasy VIII anyone?
- staticneuron, on 11/12/2008, -1/+14Not surprised at your response. The same typical shill. It was hyperbole... get over it. F@H is a program trying to find the cause for cancer and find a cure as well. Like said before, there is alot of complaints about sony but not that many quotes from named sources.
My... though... how we forget about the Halo3 trailers that one that was TR and the other one that was supposedly real time (the game sure didn't look like that). The gears of war "mad world" commercial yep that was CG too. The red steel commercial for the wii.
It simple really. There are supposed to be names and faces attatched to quotes.
Like quotes from Andre Vrignaud "I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080'x' games for the PS3 this year" and Microsoft's game technology group director Scott Henson - "I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."
I am sure people were all over those quotes when ridge racer 7, full auto 2, virtua tennis 3 and marvel: ultimate alliance all came out native 1080p for the PS3 that year right? Right?
I can tell you why people have difficulty coming up with names because most of the claims are *****. If I ask the sony rep that checks the adverts in my local gamestop if the God of war 3 trailer was real time and he says yes then that means its another insidious sony plan to lie to its consumers right?
This is all about fanboys and their desire to be on attack mode. Faceless sony reps are on path and also attacking harmless ads that they don't like. Before the PS3 was even out it was just blatant lies, such as underclocking, a lockdown of used games and all sorts of nonsense that permeated the web.
Typical comments, from the same typical people. Why is it that fanboys lack the balls nowadays to just admit their ***** and lay the cards on the table? - sathias, on 11/11/2008, -17/+30Target Renders are extremely misleading and dishonest IMHO, they should not be shown to the public at all. At the very least they should have a disclaimer saying that they are not in-game footage.
I feel no sympathy for them at all, especially with reactions like this
"But it's this thing that haunts you, that you didn't match your target render.... Everybody makes such a big ***** deal of it. Who gives a *****? That's how we make games. If people have got a problem with that, tough." - Jedimonkey27, on 11/12/2008, -1/+14If you think game developers make very much money you are a fool. The publishers and distributors make all the money.
- inactive, on 11/12/2008, -2/+13"my eyes tell a different story"
You're the biggest 360 fanboy of them all, your eyes do not say differently, they say "ooh another PS3 article to ***** all over" - staticneuron, on 11/12/2008, -0/+11Well.... Not being directed at you exactly but what your going about was apart of huge and apparent;y successful FUD campaign. Again I ask you which sony rep said this about motorstorms trailer? What is his job title?
Is it the same Anonymous rep/insider that let the inquirer know about the broken PS3 hardware/poor cell yield times/restriction on used games? Is it the same Anonymous rep who confirmed the boomerang controller was going to be there at launch or that the final PS3 built will in fact have 2 HDMI ports? Same rep who touted the original killzone as a halo killer..... then haze as a halo killer?
I can go on and on about the tripe that has been lobbed at Sony as a single entity through certain sites. Sites like Kotaku, destructoid, and joystiq seem to be on attack mode most of the time. The use uncaptioned pictures, or faceless quotes to create contraversy. Situations like Lik Sang closing, where sony is looking out for the customer ( I am sure they got heat because of it because they targeted imports to one country only) and the God of war party, or the 'supposedly' racist PSP ads, the poor viral marketing campaign (which people complained as if sony had just tried to kill their mother) that were named evil, and just loads of ***** that I have sat here and watch the mindless masses consume.
At first i was thinking it was just children buying into this crap but then I realized it was adults. Adults that left their mind at the keyboards. It is just annoying to see the same nonesense regurgitated over and over again. - mywhitenoise, on 11/12/2008, -0/+10you are so wrong, dumbass.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8057148 ... - imbatman05, on 11/12/2008, -0/+8Fairly recently things changed here in the UK - publishers are now forced to print "NOT ACTUAL GAME FOOTAGE" in big text below the advertisement, if it's on the TV. I believe this was predominantly sparked by the Harry Potter games, which always showed CG footage instead of the crappy game you actually got.
- inactive, on 11/12/2008, -0/+8"And many developers say it didn't"
I haven't seen a single one
"The biggest difference is in the animations."
That's something they say they got exactly right though. - inactive, on 11/12/2008, -4/+12No. Since most reviewers say KZ met the target render
- mywhitenoise, on 11/12/2008, -5/+13Im in the KZ2 beta, it looks pretty close (if not better than) to the target render. Uncharted and MGS4 also look better than their target renders.
- inactive, on 11/12/2008, -0/+8"Sony told everybody that it was in game graphics "
No they didn't. - inactive, on 11/12/2008, -1/+8i wonder how many people are misled by video game ads where it's all cg with no in game footage.
- apena89, on 11/12/2008, -1/+8Motorstorm trumps Burnout, any day. In fun and in graphics.
- staticneuron, on 11/12/2008, -2/+9The thing is that these target renders were always shown at E3 or other trade shows. We never catch them on TV because they aren't TV spots. The games were to far from completion. What they wanted the public to see they put in the public eyes. The japanese motorstorm commercials and the playbeyond commercials were all in game.
Somehow, the gamers in the know have suddenly forgotten, in less than a generation, what E3 and these promotions were for. It wasn't just a place where they showed games that were "ready for release soon". It was a place were they announced business mergers and new projects that may even be years off from release. What nigel is complaining about are people complaining about things that are not really meant for public consumption. If you are the overzealous gamer that harp on the trade shows and scrounge around for info then that is all on you. I have complained before about renders but that is only in commercials meant for public consumption, like the EA ads i see on my TV or the Halo 3 ad I saw in the movie theater.
I think some gamers this generation need to step back an take a look at themselves before they continue criticizing others. - HappyScrappy, on 11/12/2008, -0/+6All the promotional shots released for Viva Pinata were target renders, not in game.
- maxsunset, on 11/12/2008, -1/+7These were the developers saying how they were POed about the target render... I was thinking to myself, "what alternate reality do these guys live in?" I mean, its great to set high standards and everything, but I found it amazing they thought they could actually achieve that level of fidelity. Maybe it's because they didnt actually work on the target render themselves...
That said, the game still rocked, and still looked great. I'm not entirely sold on Pacific Rift yet though... it seems to have lost a lot of atmosphere that was so effective at setting the chaotic mood of the first game. - inactive, on 11/12/2008, -2/+8Good news, most reviewers say they met the KZ target render
- HappyScrappy, on 11/12/2008, -0/+6They're two different kinds of games. I do like Burnout:Paradise better, but this game is an offroad circuit racer and it has elements of Road Rash. Burnout is a street racer.
- razor150, on 11/11/2008, -3/+8I am pretty sure you mean Guerrilla Games. They're probably the ones that designed the trailer for the presentation, it was a target render as well, no different then Motor Storms.
- MrFisty, on 11/12/2008, -0/+5Wrath of the Lich King?
- palmer, on 11/12/2008, -7/+12Buried for having 30-SECOND COMMERCIAL at the beginning.
- staticneuron, on 11/12/2008, -0/+5Um PS3 television ads were pretty mach all in game.
- apena89, on 11/12/2008, -1/+5Call Of Duty 2.
- mywhitenoise, on 11/12/2008, -0/+4You're wrong Neo. Compare the first trailer to final game. *****, even compare the trailers shown 2 months before release to the final product.
- staticneuron, on 11/12/2008, -2/+6"If that's not shocking enough, Kershaw also discussed the always relevant question of whether or not the trailer was misrepresented as in-game footage. He admitted that although nobody may have said the game was "in-game code," no one denied it either. Kershaw did reveal one amusing anecdote from the experience, though: "The only thing was it was done by a company up the road called Real Time, so in theory it was 'real time.'"
All I have ever seen is some quote from anonymous sony rep A being circulated around net. Who from sony said the motorstorm TR and the killzone TR were in game? - volacide, on 11/12/2008, -3/+7I'm in the KZ2 beta and regardless of how close it is to the target render this game looks fantastic. The lighting effects and smoke and everything is very atmospheric and stylish. This game has a lot of filters applied over the top of it giving it a very unique and cool look.
The best visual effect that most people might never even realize because they take it for granted in other games is that when anything shoots (person, turret bot etc) it casts a dynamic light and accompanying shadow. Many will remember that in some of the early Gears of War videos when a player or enemy shot there weapon you'd see a really cool shadow of that person cast behind them from their gun. Well that never actually came to be in Gears of War the game. In Killzone 2 that does happen, and it looks amazing too, because not only does it cast a shadow of the player shooting the weapon but also everything around him like pillars, railings, other players, anything.
It looks incredible in real time and it really is quite a feat to have that many dynamic lights and shadows from multiple sources going off all at once with no slow down and in an online multiplayer game no less. It really changes a first person shooter being able to see things light up so well and with the added dynamic shadow effect you can also tell which direction that person might be based upon said shadow.
Enough about all that though, as amazing as the graphics do look the best part of the Killzone 2 beta is that it proves its going to play incredibly well. I threw in Killzone 1 just to compare and it is like night and day and then some. Killzone 1 is so clunky and slow and Killzone 2 is so tight and fast. It's kind of crazy because Killzone 2 still has so many little details and great animations like Killzone 1 had (for it's time) but Killzone 2 doesn't let those animations get in the way and slow you down. They've managed to make them not interfere with the gameplay at all. I cannot wait to get my hands on the full game. Rest assured, this game will be very, very good. - HappyScrappy, on 11/12/2008, -1/+5I think perhaps you're thinking of the Killzone 2 trailer.
- stridox, on 11/12/2008, -2/+5Everyone who bought Crysis
- skywake, on 11/12/2008, -7/+9I am shocked anyone believed anything Sony said at the time, the claim that the PS3 was "4D" and that it was faster then a supercomputer was enough for anyone with half a brain to start ignoring everything they said. The Motorstorm trailer was just the icing on the cake..... *resists urge to make Portal joke*
Remember E3 06? Remember how shocked everyone was that Sony did it ALL wrong? I am surprised Sony didn't claim that the PS3 could cure canc...... ah... solve world hunger. - mfed3, on 11/13/2008, -0/+2If they dont have in game footage to show then WHY ARE THEY SHOWING IT??? Sony have been showing fake pre-rendered videos of games that are not even in development yet and wont come out for 3 years!!
- dig1x, on 11/13/2008, -2/+4This man speaks truth.
Motorstorm Pacific still looks like turd. - djfreex, on 11/13/2008, -1/+3Do you guys remember that back in the day they would put Amiga screenshots on Commodore 64 boxes? Nothing changes...
- inactive, on 11/12/2008, -3/+5Wait, so you're saying that Sony, trying to promote their new system, being given a video of what's supposed to be PS3 game footage, aren't supposed to show any footage?
- newman328, on 11/11/2008, -8/+9Hmm I wonder how Pandemic felt about that Killzone 2 trailer from three years ago.
- BloodyRids, on 11/12/2008, -9/+10Wow. Cry me a ***** river. If you want someone to blame, blame Sony for promoting your game that way. Get over it.
- mfed3, on 11/13/2008, -1/+2If they dont have in game footage to show then WHY ARE THEY SHOWING IT??? Sony has ALWAYS been in the business of showing fake pre-rendered videos of games that are not even in development yet and wont come out for 3 years!! It is absurd how people still to this day are fooled by their ridiculous advertising that the PS3 has unlimited supercomputer power, when it is on par at best with the capabilities of a year older xbox 360 or a similar priced PC.
Get real people, Sony is a bunch of promising liars and when push comes to shove, they never deliver. - zorful, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Serves them right. They shouldn't have lied to the anon.
- patrick159, on 11/13/2008, -0/+1i dont think so but check my profile out the about me section talks about games
- nattybohman, on 11/12/2008, -5/+4Sony is definitely to blame here. Who hasn't followed E3 and seen them do this over and over again. KZ2 was the most obvious, but this happens all the time.
Every time it happens I sit there slack jawed when the "industry" media like G4 make comments like "They claim it's in game footage, I wonder if it really is?"
Come on, as a regular Joe gamer I can see that it isn't real game footage! How can industry professionals not realize this. I was almost screaming at the tv one year. - mrhedges, on 11/12/2008, -4/+3Dude, MGS4 looked nothing like its target render. Its target render was INSANE. And mywhitenoise, many of those actual shots look nicer. Not all, but some.
- filovirus, on 11/11/2008, -11/+10Hey, weren't these guys in Shaun of the Dead?
- skywake, on 11/12/2008, -5/+3wow... I wasn't attacking you if you must know. I wasn't even directing my comment at you but more the thread in general. Perhaps you should consider your point about fanboys being in attack mode and look in a mirror. :P
Being a bit of a "Nintendo fanboy" I'll say it right now, yes.. you are right in most of your points. I don't specifically remember how the Red Steel promo was a lie but I do remember other things. The trailer they showed for Disaster was all pre-rendered which could be considered misleading but on the other hand they showed SMG which was equally as impressive but was the final product. If I remember correctly the Halo3 trailer was pre-rendered also so you are right there but I don't think that was the focus at the time. I think by then everyone knew what the 360 was capable of and were more interested in the HD-DVD player and the fact that it was getting GTA4.
Sony on the other hand... They went our of their way to try and prove that their console was approximately a gazillion times more powerful then anything else that has or will ever exist. After watching their show I was confused as to if those were in-game or not. Obviously you are the expert here so you knew right of the bat but I think to most people it was a bit misleading whoever was at fault. - username9000, on 11/12/2008, -4/+2
- NeoTechni, on 11/12/2008, -4/+2MGS4's target renders are actually in the fricken game as cut scenes. They got it EXACTLY
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