What is Digg?399 Comments
- DanteDefiance, on 04/19/2008, -18/+135He's being entirely too hard on himself. MGS has always been fan-*****-tastic, and I'm sure this will be no different.
Also, he pushed the PS3 to it's limit?! Isn't the system supposed to have a 10 year life span? Why are we already hitting brick walls? - shinythingy, on 04/19/2008, -10/+125This shouldn't really be news. Kojima is a perfectionist type of guy. This game which is disappointing in his eyes will probably be better than most games released this year across all platforms.
- 000dom000, on 04/19/2008, -18/+119I don't think Kojima will ever be happy with anything he does. This game is gonna kick ass.
- SEGA4life, on 04/19/2008, -17/+91"We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
I don't think Sony is to happy with this remark. I mean this game is their bread and butter, and
Hideo Kojima feels like the game is just stale bread and parkey spread. - ozymandias2012, on 04/19/2008, -8/+78Uh huh...yeah.....so can I play it now?
- djSyndrome, on 04/19/2008, -6/+53Kojima has said this about every MGS game since the first one. The project's done, he hates how it turned out, the hardware sucks, etc.
- volacide, on 04/19/2008, -1/+46He's an artist. It's their nature to be hard on themselves. Nothing ever ends up being exactly what you had envisioned. Nothings ever good enough.
- mywhitenoise, on 04/19/2008, -5/+42Yeah I don't know about pushing it to the limit. Look how much more advanced MGS3 was to 2...although MGS2 had smoother gameplay.
- dansmeek, on 04/19/2008, -7/+42here's a good comment from kotaku word for word that illustrates my thoughts on the matter:
" This may be a bit unpopular, but I always wonder about these developers that say, with their first game for a system (that comes out fairly early in its lifespan), "Yep, we're using the CPU to 100% of its ability"... it almost is like the (urban legend?) story of the patent official in the 1800's saying "Nothing more will be invented, might as well close the patent office."
Seems like these devs should say "We're using it to its fullest as we know how today"-- as there is ALWAYS a sequel to these games, they always look/play better, as it just takes a lot of time to really get to know a system and learn how to get the best performance out of it.
I think the only time maybe a developer was right was Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast, but even then-- the DC was pulled prematurely, who knows what games would've been like had Sega been able to keep the system going for a few more years (and have it be popular enough to not just get watered down ports)." - rickyroca, on 04/19/2008, -5/+33He is the like the mother-in-law who invites you over for dinner and tells you that the dish she is serving might be "too salty" and hopes that you dont mind. In reality its cooked the same damn way it was cooked the other 50 times you ate it, but boy does she feel great after you tell her how "perfect as usual" it was.... Kojima-san is doing and looking for the same type of treatment. Case closed.
- mywhitenoise, on 04/19/2008, -11/+38I don't understand that...he said BD's storage wasn't enough...why would he want to port it to a DVD?
- JayD16, on 04/19/2008, -6/+32He's just making excuses so he can work on another one.
- Akaji, on 04/19/2008, -1/+24What they probably mean is that it was taking up about 80% of the processing power under normal load. Once developers learn to really optimize their games for the specific console's architecture, I bet they'll figure out how to make games that look a bunch better.
- Knoton, on 04/19/2008, -3/+25Raw computational power, specifically for parralellistic processes. Though, as good as it is as a supercomputer, these qualities don't necessarily lend themselves to being game friendly.
- EvilFerret, on 04/19/2008, -3/+24If he wanted a *no limits* engine for the game, he would have made it for the PC. It would definitely be capable of making it look as nice as he wanted.....However, it would make 10X less compared to the console sales it's capable of. So, it basically comes down to money. If he were a PC developer, he could make any vision come to life..... However he wouldn't get rich from doing so. As a console developer, he can make tons of money if he just waters down his game a little.
- santasing, on 04/19/2008, -4/+23Sure, and make sure yous end an email to the RFOM/Uncharted people also.
MGS still looks better than most games out there. He's just saying that the expected target specs of the PS3 did not meet the production specs.
"Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
Read that again, he says they weren't aware of the full spec the PS3 offered and that they were writing the engine before the spec was finalized. - KnockoutNerd, on 04/19/2008, -6/+25I remember Cliffy B saying that the 1st gears was about 80%(I think he said 80) of the 360 power. Developers lie.
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -10/+28And in many more respects it's more powerful than 360.
- mrloco, on 04/19/2008, -6/+23He's using reverse psychology :P
- whiteguysamurai, on 04/19/2008, -17/+33The ps3 is not "That" powerful, and in some respects it's not as powerful as the 360.
- loganhid, on 04/19/2008, -2/+18Kojima being Disappointed With Metal Gear Solid 4 means he's planning to make Metal Gear Solid 5 even though he said this would be his last MGS game
- 6shot, on 04/19/2008, -13/+29I think he just needs something to blame, and the easiest thing to blame is the console they developed for. The game looks stunning and is going to be a hit, but I guess it didn't reach his personal standards.
- JayD16, on 04/19/2008, -2/+17Kojima doesn't use FMVs...
- inactive, on 04/19/2008, -5/+19"Perhaps having to have multiple versions of the same data on the BD was what he was talking about?"
No you retarded ass-monkey. There is no need to do that on bluray, seek times are lower than DVD, and load times are a constant everywhere on the disc as opposed to DVD that gets slower the closer the data is to the middle of the disc, and even slower on dual layered discs.
The one RUMOR that suggested Oblivion would do this was denied by the developers for the reasons I listed. - loutang82, on 04/19/2008, -5/+18Yeah, cuz some dude on digg really understands the limits of the PS3 better than Kojima..Whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy.
- Topher06, on 04/19/2008, -20/+33I think there is both a lot of arrogance in the statement, and a lot of people are misinterpreting it.
I don't think Konami has tapped the Cell processor to its limit. Sorry buddy I think your grandstanding here. No company creating a first gen PS3 title has push the Cell to its limits. I think its a question of the fact that Konami took their knowledge of Cell processing to THEIR limits in this game, their next big game will push it further now they have expanded their experience on the PS3. I can see someone being dissapointed that they were not able to take full advantage of their target system, but to say they pushed it to the limits and it couldn't go beyond their expectations is BS. I can't wait to see what games on the PS3 look like 4 years from now.
Second, I think many Japanese developers are way too full of themselves. He may have wanted something like a photo-realistic real-time big screen quality game and was dissapointed the technology isn't there yet, but he had unrealistic initial expectations. I don't think the PS3 failed him at all, its the only system even remotely capable of delivering his "vision" with minimum comprimise. Not going to see too many 50gb games coming out on the Xbox360, Wii or even the PC anytime soon.
Anybody thinking this game could have looked better or done better on the 360 is delusional, period. - santasing, on 04/19/2008, -5/+18You heard that. Even as of now, truspector is coding the next PS3 game. Links please?
- volacide, on 04/19/2008, -4/+17What is coming out in June that looks remotely close to as good as MGS4 does?
- TangentThought, on 04/19/2008, -5/+18Can't you just comment one time so I don't have to read the same thing three times over?
- bot001220, on 04/19/2008, -5/+17"Isn't the system supposed to have a 10 year life span?"
Welcome to the wonderful world of game marketing. Sony said a lot of things about the PS3. Not all of them were what we call "true". - santasing, on 04/19/2008, -4/+16"we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
They started work on the game before the PS3 hardware spec was finalized. Is it really that hard? - typicalusername, on 04/19/2008, -2/+14Kojima wants you to strap a headset on and get to where you actually think you're Snake. He won't be happy till he gets that.
- bdawg123, on 04/19/2008, -3/+15No, he can't. This is wageslaven you're talking about.
- dysonlu, on 04/19/2008, -1/+12Well, it is not difficult to push hardware to its limit. The art is getting the most out of what you have. In other words, can they honestly claim their code has been optimized to the fullest? I doubt it.
- JayD16, on 04/19/2008, -2/+13You're misunderstanding the quote. You make it out like we were looking at target renders at TGS or something.
"When we first showed the game engine at TGS, the staff were really proud and happy"
When they showed the GAME ENGINE, meaning they had code running on final hardware.
Its not that Sony pulled the rug out from under him or something. Its just that, as the development progressed, things like looking over a cliff at an amazing view of the town start to get cut due to the work taking far too many man hours for one passing moment of scenery. It doesn't matter how insignificant that scene was to the game, to Kojima things like that probably mean everything. - Azimuth1, on 04/19/2008, -6/+17But at the same time, how would you feel as one of the programmers on MGS4 when your lead designer says that he's disappointed with the work you and your team have done over the past few years?
Even if it's not your fault and it's the fault of the PS3's hardware limitations, I don't know, I think I'd be pretty miffed. - Elranzer, on 04/19/2008, -2/+13He's just being himself and making ridiculous statements cuz he's a publicity whore. He's always made remarks like this, and is almost as bad as Ken Kutaragi.
For example, he wouldn't develop for the original Xbox because "the controller is too big." Keep in mind, the Japanese only ever got the Controller S. - thtroyer, on 04/19/2008, -1/+12You have no idea what you're talking about.
- briansearles, on 04/19/2008, -6/+17The good artists are never happy with their own work.
- dansmeek, on 04/19/2008, -6/+16i also have a feeling quotes were taken out of context and perhaps misinterpreted.
similar stories have happened in the past where a developer quote was taken out of context (thinks about mark reign in saying "Gear oF War would not be possible on the PS3" and fanboys saying "SEE!!!! 360 wins zOMG! Hahaha losers!" when in reality he meant "we have an exclusivity agreement with the microsoft corporation and thus there will never ever be a port for the original Gears of War."
I think he just wanted more computing power. We all do. But the PS3 is the best system for this. Unless he wants to turn MGS3 into a PC exclusive game with awward controls that would destroy everything.
I'm sure his biggest idissapointment (if I put mysel in his shoes and think about disappointing graphics) is that he probably had to sacrifice either a) high-rez textures in order to keep larger levels, or b) use high rez-textures but not make as immersive levels..... and have levels diviided into parts that can be loaded and unload into RAM".
anyway, I would wait until we hear the full story. Not just a few out-of-context quotes.
This article would make me feel good if I only owned a 360, but it comes off as kinda of mean towards Sony and the tons of people who bought the PS3 and believe it to be a ruly superior console to everything else this generation. And nol, it's not sony marketing that got into my head. If any marketing got into my head it would be 1800 Fulll Auto or E-Surance. Speaking of which, maybe i should visit esurance. i already have car insurance. but i've always wanted to be a cartoon character so........
::goess off and never returns:: - dansmeek, on 04/19/2008, -3/+13yes, just like software vs. hardware backwards comptability.
the point is branch prediction runs terrible even with built in hardware specs. sony uses a software solution via IBM that many "experts" feel is just as good.
it wasn't until the console wars started that people say OMG PS3 HAS NO HARDWARE BRANCH PREDICTIION that such rumors started. - davidjunit, on 04/19/2008, -2/+12I'm upset because it's not using FIVE Blu-ray discs. WTF people, compression is for losers!
- dansmeek, on 04/19/2008, -3/+13sorry for dup-post, but truspector is spreading false rumors,so i will give you links to hardware details and how it works (and works just as well, if not better)
"PS3 branch prediction is very underrated.
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/03/09/sony-says-cell ...
"branching is absolutely terrible for ALL processors. In their experience, they said, it is less terrible for the SPUs however.....Since Sony has had success creating AI superior to that available on other consoles relying on different setups (triple-core PPC, etc), they've included ways for developers to have similar success with the EDGE kit.......In the upcoming game Heavenly Sword, they said that moving the branching AI off of the Power Processor Unit (PPU) increased the performance of that particular process. In other words, the same branching ran better on the SPUs."
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx? ...
What I'm saying here, is that sure, the SPEs don't have BPTs of BTBs, they're all 2-way dispatch and not greater, but, they all run REALLY fast, they have short pipelines (so the pain of the branch misprediction won't be so bad), and, IBM have had software branch prediction available since the POWER4, so they've been at it a few years and must have decided that compilers really can successfully predict branch directions." - whiteguysamurai, on 04/19/2008, -3/+12It's because those who programed on the 360 were aware of it's limits, and no phantom specs were made up for it.
On the other hand we had that moron Kutaragi promising the world, and no one at sony wanted to give realistic goals for what the hardware was really capable of.
So this campaign of dis-information went on.
Now we all know that the ps3 was not as powerful as sony had suggested. - mrhedges, on 04/19/2008, -1/+10What the ***** does he know? Are you retarded? He's been in the industry for decades. He's seen the industry evolve from the beginning. Question should be what the ***** do you know?
- HPMNick, on 04/19/2008, -3/+12Dead On correct.
No one really looked at the specs. The GPU has a severe memory bandwidth issue for the GPU... There is simply not enough for really good 720p rendering...
The cell is only useful at intensive floating point calculations and number crunching. Its general purpose work puts it slightly behind the capabilities of a pentium 3, and its rather hard to develop for.
Writing multi-threaded applications is hard enough. Splitting the work in an evenly distributed 7 ways is next to impossible. - kewldewd, on 04/19/2008, -6/+15I just can't understand why he would say this...publicly. I mean, whether or not his perception of the game is one that reviewers/gamers share is one thing, but he has to realize what kind of affect this will have on his sales. This is a system seller. The more units Sony moves the more money Kojima is going to have...why shoot yourself in the foot??
- dansmeek, on 04/19/2008, -3/+12PS3 branch prediction is very underrated.
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/03/09/sony-says-cell ...
"branching is absolutely terrible for ALL processors. In their experience, they said, it is less terrible for the SPUs however.....Since Sony has had success creating AI superior to that available on other consoles relying on different setups (triple-core PPC, etc), they've included ways for developers to have similar success with the EDGE kit.......In the upcoming game Heavenly Sword, they said that moving the branching AI off of the Power Processor Unit (PPU) increased the performance of that particular process. In other words, the same branching ran better on the SPUs."
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx? ...
What I'm saying here, is that sure, the SPEs don't have BPTs of BTBs, they're all 2-way dispatch and not greater, but, they all run REALLY fast, they have short pipelines (so the pain of the branch misprediction won't be so bad), and, IBM have had software branch prediction available since the POWER4, so they've been at it a few years and must have decided that compilers really can successfully predict branch directions. - Petrie, on 04/19/2008, -6/+15Blu ray read times might have something to do with it.
- santasing, on 04/19/2008, -8/+17Dude what part of they started work on the game before the PS3 hardware spec was finalized do you not get.
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