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Mass. Wants Two-Year Prison Terms for Online Poker Players

valleywag.com — In a bill to allow three brick-and-mortar casinos in the Bay State, Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick has proposed two-year jail terms and a $25,000 fine for folks caught gambling online.

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  • theabbaguy, on 11/15/2007, -4/+92Democracy? Land of the free? Was nothing learned from prohibition in the 1920's?
  • hungarian33, on 11/14/2007, -17/+4i am not a big poker player, but my freinds are.so i dugg it
  • mmocrunch, on 11/15/2007, -27/+0They should just kill poker players
    • CoolWind, on 11/13/2007, -2/+1water boarding is more fun
    • Prefection, on 11/28/2007, -0/+1The honorable Governor of Massachusetts has a better plan: imprison the online-poker players with the pot smokers, and then Bubba has twice as many non-violent cell mates to rape. God, I love this country more each day.
    • Fordi, on 12/13/2007, -0/+1Eh, that sounds like murdering people for being stupid.

      Poker, all skill levels being equal, basically gives you N:1 odds of winning, N being the number of players in the game.

      I say all skill levels being equal because: 1) if you're playing out of your class, you're being a moron, 2) a player's skill is always much lower than the player estimates it, and 3) the odds of a game being fixed, especially online where a fix can be completely transparent, are higher than a player thinks 4) the weights of individuals' skills in a game are significantly lower than a player thinks, and 5) The risk/reward ratio isn't easily estimatable because of the weight of relative skill levels and difficulty in estimation thereof, and is often much higher than is reasonable.

      In short, yeah, better odds than the lottery, but the risk/reward ratio is directly relational to your relative level of skill versus the other players, and therefore, insufficiently quantifiable to validate an attempt at a game. Anyone who thinks differently is either stupid or deluded.

      So, let the assholes self-destruct. Getting their kneecaps broken or their financial lives ruined is FAR worse a punishment than sticking them in the pokey - and often better incentive to have them seek addiction counselling.
  • oreonblade, on 11/15/2007, -1/+83So these days, corporations use politicians to make laws that wipe out their competition? How does playing poker online warrant a two year sentence?

    Patrick, get your goddamn priorities/head straight.
    • doogieboo, on 11/14/2007, -1/+13Oh he has his priorities straight... He's working on legalizing casinos in the state. He's trying to pass a plan to build 3 casinos in Mass.
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1Oh noes, the online poker will corrupt teh childrens!

      /sarcasm
      //I ***** hate corporatism and nanny states
  • wonderpants, on 11/14/2007, -1/+26Thank god we cant have these dangerous criminals roaming th streets
    http://www.slocartoon.net/cartoons/images/003000/3 ...
    • obliviousfool, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1Yes, let's put the perpetrators of this victimless crime in prison where they shall surely see the error of their ways!
  • fdw2006, on 11/14/2007, -3/+23Not that I condone it but I personally know people that were caught with individually packages gram bags of coke (lots of them). They got off by taking a drug class and going on probation. But, yes, you are probably right..poker is more dangerous to society and our youths. ....love it
  • noahhoward, on 11/13/2007, -4/+14Here I was ready to blame the christian values nutters for this and it's just everyday corporate douchism, sorry christies looks like I was a bit quick to draw this time.
    • Xondar, on 11/13/2007, -4/+8American Fundamentalist Christians who believe in legislating morality will certainly support this.
      • Pikachelsea, on 11/13/2007, -1/+5Hey, remember what "assuming" does? Just letting you know. I'm a Christian and I think this is retarded. Whether you think gambling is immoral or not, it still makes zero sense to support IRL gambling while punishing online gambling.
        • Xondar, on 11/15/2007, -2/+3I said "American Fundamentalist Christians." Are you one of those?
      • Zedoriah, on 11/13/2007, -1/+2> Hey, remember what "assuming" does?

        Makes an ass out of u and... ming?
    • Error601, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4People that stereotype will always be retards.
  • G-RaZoR, on 11/15/2007, -0/+42Hmm great, spend more tax money to imprison people. Why don't they imprison real criminals, who commit real crimes, involving real victims?
    • Elranzer, on 11/14/2007, -0/+6Then there won't be anyone in public office anymore.
    • Philluminati, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3maybe if they lock up all the victims then crime will go down
  • whojaybe, on 11/14/2007, -0/+11deval partick is an idiot. i'm from massachusetts and he has a LOT more to worry about than trying to catch online gamblers... but then again, since mass is in so much debt BECAUSE of poor administration, they need to get money anyway possible, huh? idiot...
  • dilpil1, on 11/14/2007, -1/+16Democracy: a great excuse for tyranny.
  • galeninjapan, on 11/13/2007, -1/+11Isn't there any candidate that doesn't want to regulate the internet?
  • kgorczyn, on 11/14/2007, -1/+24Speaking as an online poker, on behalf of millions of other online poker players, ***** YOU DEVAL PATRICK
  • davin510, on 11/13/2007, -5/+5BLOGGGGGG SPAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    direct link:
    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/ ...

    but yeah, this sucks.
  • teknotant, on 11/14/2007, -0/+38It should be a 2-year sentence for politicians that promote or introduce non-practical legislation. How many politicians would be left if this happened?
    • Prefection, on 11/28/2007, -0/+2No matter how many are left, the answer would be the same: too many.
  • noahhoward, on 11/13/2007, -1/+11http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=gov3utilities&sid=Agov ...

    Go tell him how you feel. Some tips, be polite, don't foam, don't call him what we all want to call him.
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3Online submissions don't mean squat. You want to be heard, you bust out ol' inky and write him a letter.
  • MakiNavaja, on 11/13/2007, -8/+11Have I mentioned lately how happy I am to no longer live in the U.S.?
    • teknotant, on 11/13/2007, -4/+6Thats trendy
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -1/+3And I'm sure we're not suffering because you are gone. Cya
  • imightbewrong, on 11/14/2007, -0/+24Wonder if this has anything to do with the casinos that are being built in MA soon?
    Deval is in someone's pocket
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1Did you read the description? This has everything to do with the new casinos.
  • latrosicarius, on 11/14/2007, -0/+27The only reason unlicensed gambling is illegal is because THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TAX MONEY ON GAMBLING EARNINGS. How free is our country?
    • mozzep, on 11/13/2007, -4/+1How is that? If thy wanted to tax our earnings made from gambling, then why wouldn't they legalize it? It's more complex than that one issue, either "christian" values or something equally ludicrous and impossible to defend.
      • bjornski, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4Because it's pretty hard to impose a tax on money being spent or earned on overseas servers without tracking every single financial transaction and cross referencing it against a list of "allowed" and "disallowed".
        • covertbadger, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4I think you'll find that any of the big European poker companies would bite your arm off if you offered them the chance to legally run servers in the US with proper regulation. The servers are overseas BECAUSE of US laws, not in spite of them. If the US opens up I promise you every single one of the reputable poker companies publically traded on the FTSE would spin off an American arm and set up shop on US soil under US regulation and paying US taxes. The insane profit would more than outweight the cost.
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -0/+2The government has their hands in way too much nowadays.
  • kettlechips, on 11/13/2007, -3/+122 Years? I say death penalty!
    • itsme92, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5I learned in living skills (drug/sex ed at my HS) that when marijuana was being banned in the 30s the Texas Legislature considered the death penalty for possession.
    • technoredneck, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1That's weak, bud. I say a life sentence of waterboarding--oh wait, the government said it wasn't that bad...
  • 10GunSalute, on 11/13/2007, -0/+7What's up with these morons and their internet censorship bullcrap? SSH tunnel, offshore bank account, DONE.
  • delmar14, on 11/14/2007, -0/+10If they can't tax, they'll make it illegal...***** fascists.
  • IpsoPhatso87, on 11/14/2007, -0/+14As an online Holdem' player in Ohio, I hope Ted Strickland doesn't try to pull crap like this. Why the hell would online gambling require a 2 year sentence to jail? I am constantly hearing about multiple time DUI offenders getting mere months in jail, and they are threatening peoples LIVES. WTF is wrong with the priorities of people these days?
    • dRuNk3nIrIsHmEn, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3I feel you, I am also an online Holdem' player in Ohio. I find myself jumping through hoops to find ways to fund my Pokerstars account. They used to accept Mastercard, but when I tried to deposit a little more money a while ago I found I had to Western Union some money to some Filipino or something since my bank did not allow 'online gambling.' Made me nervous about my money.
    • bjornski, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2As a Second Life resident, and small casino owner, these online gambling bans slaughtered the economy.

      It's legal in many, many other countries, but everyone had to live up to California law regarding these matters.

      So US law isn't just punishing US players, but also international players.

      Who owns the net?
  • CobaltScribe, on 11/13/2007, -0/+11What are these "freedoms" we're supposedly fighting Al Qaida over? It seems the list is growing shorter every day.
  • christianjb, on 11/13/2007, -0/+14I bet you ten dollars this bill won't pass.
    • databoy, on 11/13/2007, -1/+0A politician's rational thinking diminishes when there is a dollar slipped into his pocket. Don't under-estimate a politician's irrational logic when there is money placed in the kitty for a re-election bid.
      • pintomp3, on 11/14/2007, -0/+6what's that? it's a bird! it's a plane! it's a joke flying over your head!
  • icefairy17, on 11/13/2007, -0/+14Yeah, let's give on-line gamblers a harder sentence than some child molesters and wife beaters! Moron.
    • databoy, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1At least there is one person on digg with rational thinking.
      • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1What the hell are you talking about? Everyone on Digg opposes this.
  • NikoKun, on 11/13/2007, -0/+7Punishment should never be worse than the crime... -_-
    And frankly, what crime is it, if some moron wants to gamble?
  • TheBeaver, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Pretty stiff penalty if you ask me. In California you can run from the cops and be out of jail in a day.
  • Xondar, on 11/13/2007, -0/+8It amazes me how U.S. lawmakers regularly shoot their economy in the foot in the name of "morality." There are dozens of online gambling companies that are making big profits that have moved their businesses to Central and South America because it is now illegal to run gambling online in the United States. This law will further exacerbate the situation and chase away even more people who could be contributing to the economy of the United States.

    Not to mention that two years in prison for such a 'crime' sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. They want to send people involved in a victimless 'crime' to the same place they send murderers, rapists and thieves. Oh wait, they already send people there for hiring prostitutes and smoking pot. Nothing good ever comes out of legislating morality, one day the American justice system is going to collapse from the attempt.
  • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -8/+3You have to realize the law is the law. Citizens are going to have to obey them. If it we have to imprison someone for 10 years to make them obey the laws, then so be it. I hope every gambler that breaks the law goes to jail. We don't need them on the Internet promoting gambling anyways. What right do they have to gamble!




    America is going down hill real quick, because a lot of people think that way these days.
    VOTE RON PAUL!
    • databoy, on 11/13/2007, -1/+2It is called democracy and the individual's right to screw up his own life.
      Who in the hell is Ron Paul? Does he walk on water?
      • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -1/+3Ron Paul is candidate running for the Presidency. He doesn't walk on water but he believes in your liberties and the constitution. In my opinion he would save America in its destructive manner. I would be completely against this idea of imprisoning citizens because the choose to gamble. You can Google Ron Paul or visit his website at www.ronpaul2008.com
    • CoolWind, on 11/13/2007, -1/+1dude. you are sick.
    • JamesTorrence, on 11/13/2007, -2/+3You couldn't be a more ignorant jack ass. Firstly, Ron Paul, if elected, would do his best to remove legislation that regulates the internet. Hence, online gambling would likely become legal and states then would introduce their own legislation or ignore it. Secondly, every state in the country earns millions or sometimes billions of dollars of their state budgets every year promoting their own gambling rackets ie. lotto and scratch tickets. There's a reason most scratch tickets look like slot machines you douche. That's your own government sticking it to you doing what you call immoral.

      Educate yourself or you don't deserve to have an opinion. Legislation that forces the millions who love to gamble to do so through companies outside our country is an absurd and morally bankrupt agenda.

      By the way, please continue to plan on voting for Ron Paul. You've made an incredibly smart decision. You ***** dildo.
      • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2LOL Satire?
        • JamesTorrence, on 11/13/2007, -1/+2Well, what can I say. Satire isn't satire unless it's being ridiculed.
        • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2HUH?
          sat·ire (săt'īr') pronunciation
          n.
          1.
          1. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.
          2. The branch of literature constituting such works. See synonyms at caricature.
          2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.
          source:
          http://www.answers.com/satire&r=67

          Ok look man, I think i've been pretty calm here while you are being a completely rude. You called me names and told me that I don't deserve the right to have an opinion. Kind of ironic to my whole post huh?

          Anyways, I'm a strong supporter of RP and understand is ideas. Your not going to win over anyone with that type of attitude. Take care & and vote Ron Paul!
    • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1Ok, sense I guess it's not obvious to some people, even with my last two statements, this was a satire post.
  • skillrules, on 11/13/2007, -1/+0I dont believe in The Deval.
  • spyd3rweb, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3LEGALIZE IT!!!
  • minoss, on 11/14/2007, -0/+14I got this crazy idea. How about we just let people do whatever the ***** they want with their body, lives, and money so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else?
  • databoy, on 11/13/2007, -1/+2Only in America. Maybe because the politicians are not getting a back hander.
  • helloyamadotcom, on 11/13/2007, -2/+6We have drunk drivers staying in jail for a very short time, and online gamblers in jail for two years.

    Way to ***** go, America.
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -0/+2its not America buddy its who you are voting for
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -1/+1its not America buddy its who you are voting for
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -1/+1its not America buddy its who you are voting for
  • MedicSean37, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5I never could understand how some individual thinks he has the right to tell someone else what to do. I don't care if you smoke meth your whole life. It's none of my business. As long as you don't hurt anyone else and respect others private property, go for it. Just don't come to me for help because you don't want to take responsibility for your actions.
    • Glitchr, on 11/13/2007, -1/+1I agree with the basis of your opinion but people who gamble, take drugs or are obese cost us all dearly. These are the same people without health insurance or any savings. When they get hurt they show up at emergency care and run up a ridiculous bill for us taxpayers. If there was some way to insure that such destructive people could take care of themselves, then i would share your hands off approach. They are already costing us. The point of the government interdiction is make people responsible for their destructive behavior. I am not saying it is working all that well... They are just trying to do something to increase accountability. Other suggestions would be welcome. When a Meth head breaks into you car for $5 worth of loose change, then you will finally understand that these clowns are hurting you.

      In regard to online gambling specifically, I don't see the harm. It seems more likely that the government is taking action because it interfers with state sponsored gambling and it reduces their cut.
      • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1IDEA: Then cut them off. Let them do what they want and don;t give them benefits. Then they have personal freedom and personal responsibility. if they want to take chances and they die, to damn bad,. It was their choice. Or you can be all charitable and let them do what they want and give them public services when they mess up. But preventing people from exercising freedoms just because they might end up costing the state is asinine. Just don't let the state pay for it.

        "It seems more likely that the government is taking action because it interfers with state sponsored gambling and it reduces their cut."

        Yes, and this is wrong, and shows a fundamental problem with a government that can interfere with the free market.
  • MODAT, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5i wonder if this has anything to do with the new casino set to be built here
  • CoolWind, on 11/13/2007, -1/+4Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick is insane!
    Elected criminals are now running America's governments. God help us.
  • Groovydoo, on 11/13/2007, -0/+0I don't like the concept of online gambling, but let's face the facts, those who commit involuntary manslaughter get shorter prison terms than that.
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1"I don't like the concept of online gambling"

      I don't care. You have no right to tell someone else what they may and may not do with their money when all parties consent to the transaction. The problem is that you'd accept this law if it was just a $200 fine because you don't like the concept of online gambling, and that's wrong. People should be allowed to gamble online if they want to. They're not hurting anyone but themselves. And people are allowed to hurt themselves, or else we're not truly free. We just can't hurt others (without their consent, of course).
  • BradnPA, on 11/13/2007, -1/+5ok... where the ***** are these candidates coming from? Is there a cess pool that keeps churning these dicksmacks out? This dude was elected by the same people he is trying to throw in jail over a victimless crime. This bitch was clearly lobbied by these gambling institutions wanting to open up in the state. CLEARLY, no ifs, ands, or buts. Ok enough of these lame ass politicians folks, what is it going to take to get you to look into the MONEY that follows these people around. Is the candidate a former big business person? Is he super wealthy? If so why is he running for office and how did he get his wealth? Who donated to his campaign.. ? Look into it, if its shady then dont elect the *****... start electing people that you know.. your neighbors, your good friends... get the word out about the person. Get this ***** outta office and anyone who tries to pass this bill, any supporters of this bill were clearly lobbied as well. get them OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT.

    Ron Paul for President.. god damnit.
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2...what cess pool keeps voting for them?
      • BradnPA, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2I dont understand. I think voters just arent using common sense and following the money, what corporations are supporting him/her? I think most of the ***** can be avoided just by using a bit of common sense. We have the internet now, start electing people you know, your neighbors and such, use the internet to get the person out in the public.
    • Time4SumWupAzz, on 11/19/2007, -0/+2friggin democrats
  • tomis, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Wow. The government really is by the corporations for the corporations. They're not even trying to be sly about it. Just outright outlawing competition.
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1You're blaming the free market and corporations for this? It is purely the fault f the corps that have bought this governor and the government, not corps in general. If the government didn't interfere with the free market, this would never have happened!
  • centerblack, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2BABY SIT ME MORE PLEASE.
  • KargeOfTylenol, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1Thats as if they're blocking online news sites from dolling out free news because the papers are losing so much money. So now we're spending money to reverse the advancement of technology? Only in America.
  • Dominea, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4Just another bought off corrupt ***** in power that needs taken out.
  • gryphonauto, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Using law to eliminate competition? Not to mention these are extremely harsh penalties for someone doing something stupid that's likely to result in them losing money anyway.

    I think gambling is highly wasteful in society, however since gambling is permitted at these casinos, it should also be permitted online, at race-tracks, events, and wherever else people see fit. You either dictate morality or you don't, not dictate it as you see personally fit.
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1Not just because it's permitted at the casinos, but because it's a consenting activity that hurts no one without their consent. it should be allowed. The government doesn't grant us rights. They simply protect them by enforcing punishment for those who infringe on them. At least, in theory. In reality, they're a corrupt organization that is easily bought and sold and is happy to infringe on our rights for their own gain or the gain of their allies.
  • Grolsch, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1What the f...?? I just started to play poker consistently online and they want to make it illegal?
    What CAN I do in this "land of the free"? If ***** like this is gonna continue I will move out to Canada or Europe. And I really dont want to cuz I just got my US Citizenship.. I hope it wasnt a mistake.
    • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1Don't run away. Stay here, vote, and try to change this.
  • tdous, on 11/13/2007, -1/+3Seriously, can you sort out your country before this rampant stupidity starts to spill over. Come on! 200 million+ people is a good sized uprising.
    • spawnfree, on 11/13/2007, -0/+1and what will you replace the administration with?
      after a bloody uprising that leaves the country in a mess, you install a new government; then agents of private interests, that genuinely believe they deserve all material wealth, creep up to the new guys and bribe, beg and threaten to get what they want.

      Create a society that identifies and cures all mental illness and you may, possibly, get rid of the fat, bullying, narcissistic sociopaths that latch onto material wealth to replace their real emotional needs. The desire becomes insatiable because material wealth does not actually satisfy an emotional need.
      But first we have to understand and undo all the conditioning we have all been subjected to for over 100 years; ***** like men are supposed to be cold and uncaring, wealth is the only desirable thing, don't hug your kids or you will spoil them, corporations deserve to make profit at the expense of the people they are supposed to be serving etc.

      tl;dr the human race is locked into a cycle of violence and avarice that it doesn't even understand. At any level of society.
      • tech42er, on 11/21/2007, -0/+1You know what? You might be right that material wealth is a holow virtue and people should not passivel accept gender stereotpyes or whatever, but that's not the point. People should be free to do that. The problem is the governement that tries to interfere with the market and infringe on peoples' (yes even corporations' rights, like these poor corps that run the online gambling sites). Maybe some private interests are buying the government and that's bad, but the problem there is the corrupt private interests and the government's power. If the government can pass a law to eliminate competition, is it any wonder businesses are bribing them? We need to curtail the power of government so that they can't take away our rights. We can do this democratically if we publicize these problems and elect the right people.
  • acudoc, on 11/14/2007, -0/+4All hail the State. The State knows what is best for me. I will do anything the State wants. I am part of something big, Oh Great State! Thank you for deigning to allow me to exist, all Knowing and Omniscient State. How can I serve Thee? Perhaps by ratting on my neighbors, yeah, that's the ticket!. Just tell me what you want...grovel, grovel, grovel.
  • changyang1230, on 11/13/2007, -1/+4I am surprised that nobody complained about this news being in totally incorrect section.
  • spawnfree, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2keep em playing and we get it all.
    protip; gambling is for suckers.
  • Leomarth, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4Jail, which is meant really to restrain violent criminals from damaging society, for people playing a game that has been legal for centuries.
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