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607 Comments
- kingofinternet, on 04/09/2009, -4/+244"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke - RexKwando, on 04/08/2009, -14/+239This is so heartbreaking! How could anybody do this to a person? Second, how could anybody just pretend it is not happening?
Come on! ***** do something or kill yourself because you are a waste of space. - Slashered, on 04/08/2009, -7/+188The MTA fails on so many levels.
- Bukowsky, on 04/08/2009, -8/+180how could you NOT do something about it? I understand the fear of getting hurt, but how could you just stand around as somebody else is getting hurt? Doesn't make sense to me.
- chaoswings, on 04/09/2009, -5/+166It is because people are afraid of getting involved. I know from personal experience that it can turn into a ***** storm.
Me and several of my friends were at a gas station when we noticed some ***** was pulling his girlfriend by the hair towards his car. We got out of the car and confronted him. Meanwhile the convenience store clerk saw what was happening outside and called the cops. Long story short, the girlfriend changes her story in order to protect her boyfriend and we end up being taken down to the station and fined for a "domestic disturbance".
In a world where you get slapped in the face for being a decent human being it is no wonder people don't want to get involved. It happens even with minor things like giving your seat up on the bus. Instead of getting thanked or politely turned down you get a smart ass retort. - dexaroni, on 04/09/2009, -6/+128In womens defense classes they always tell women to yell "fire!" instead of "help!" becuase nobody will respond to someone pleaing for help. Its horrible.
- Diefree, on 04/08/2009, -14/+130I'm sorry but the conductor and clerk are both spineless cowards for their part and I sincerely hope they have to live with the knowledge that they let a rape happen for the rest of their lives.
- SolInvictus, on 04/08/2009, -8/+118This is just so very wrong. What happened to her was incredibly tragic, but even more tragic was the fact that none of the people who could've rescued her did anything to help. That the Judge ruled against her and that the MTA would release a statement defending their inaction is just shameful.
There are no words to describe how terrible this is, and even worse is the fact that nothing is being done to change anything to prevent it from happening in the future. - zakangelle, on 04/09/2009, -8/+83You're judging an action based solely on the results and not by the virtue which underlies it. If what you did agrees with your notion of human ethics, you should feel valiant for defending the weak in the face of such gross barbarism.
- absinthism, on 04/09/2009, -0/+73I always heard that but if someone is yelling fire I'm going the other way. I try not to make a habit out of running into fires.
- tgc1, on 04/09/2009, -3/+56Well Chaoswings - I support what you did. Whether the cops decided to play dumb and the girl decided to change her mind. I'm glad you intervened, 'cause who the ***** knows what the two's relationship might have been. She might have been a rape victim in progress. I'm just glad you got in there. Sure, she changed her story. But for every bitch that does stupid ***** like that, is another who goes unaided out of fear and ends up on the wrong end of things like the woman in this story.
- blackinthmiddle, on 04/09/2009, -5/+54@zakangelle
That's all well and good, but chaoswings makes an excellent point. My dad once told me a story similar to chaoswings. A guy is beating up his girlfriend and my dead intervenes. The woman gets mad at my dad for roughing up her boyfriend. The next day, he sees them cuddled in an embrace. It's great to stick to your ethics. You have to also balance that with how your actions wills affect others.
For example, remember that black dude that saved that guy's life by rolling him in the trough of the train tracks and the train passed over them? We were all amazed at work and I go home and ask my wife if she heard about it. I was pretty surprised at how angry she was at Aubry, the hero. She made an excellent point. He had his two young daughters with him. Basically, if he failed his two daughters would have been witness to his death. I repeat, she was *not* happy with his actions.
I would like to think that I would have done something more than just push a button. But no one knows if this guy had a gun or not. What happens if you step out and get a couple of bullets to the stomach? And what if you're the only breadwinner in your house and this happens? And you have three kids depending on you to bring home a paycheck? I don't think this is so black and white. - Ineedanap, on 04/09/2009, -19/+64Funny how things change on Digg... A few days ago people were all up in arms about a customer shooting and killing an armed robber in a BK. http://digg.com/world_news/Armed_customer_kills_ro ...
NOW someone should have done something, and they should have killed the rapist, and, and, and.. ..
People are so ***** easily pushed and manipulated to think something. - tidu, on 04/09/2009, -3/+47I'm not aware of the logistics of the situation, but it sounds like if some ***** is raping a woman, he's pretty vulnerable to at least a kick to the head- anything to knock him out. It's not like he was using her as a human shield wield a gun or anything. Should have been easy to help her out.
- inactive, on 04/09/2009, -2/+46Look at how many microwaves there were 50 years ago, and how many there are now. Microwaves are causing increased crime.
- robopuppy, on 04/09/2009, -6/+50Good ***** god, that makes me feel like crying
- torchednoodle, on 04/09/2009, -4/+43I don't see where anyone said it was her fault. This was a ruling on whether the subway workers were required to act as police officers or not. You're not required by law to be brave and stop crimes yourself. If someone with a gun comes into your workplace and starts executing people, you're not gonna face charges if you don't try to disarm him barehanded.
Is there more they could have done? Absolutely. Does that mean they have the legal obligation to do anything more than call the police? No. - TheBadWolf, on 04/09/2009, -6/+44@blackinthmiddle
I disagree with your wife. Yes, they would have witnessed his death. But they would have witnessed him dying trying to protect a man he didn't even know. It might be because I'm still a dreamy-eyed kid, but that seems a lot better to me than witnessing their dad's total apathy to the plight of another human. - Cabose, on 04/09/2009, -6/+43But if I or someone else were to get involved, it would turn into 2 against 1. Sure, I may get hurt, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna watch a woman be brutalized in such a fashion.
- Orchid64, on 04/09/2009, -0/+37One of my friends in college had a similar experience - he saw a guy hitting his girlfriend and attempted to help her. The boyfriend stabbed him in the neck and he bled to death. The girlfriend changed the story, claimed my friend was the one in the wrong and the boyfriend got off free for murdering my friend. My friend was a gentle person and there is no way he instigated any trouble. He just wanted to help a woman he thought was in trouble. He died for that.
- inactive, on 04/09/2009, -0/+34yes if you are one, lawyers will sue you for something.
- michaelrsa, on 04/09/2009, -4/+36Well at least sociology class taught me one thing important. When people are in groups, they tend to avoid getting involved or helping simply because others are seeing it and they believe someone else will help the individual.
Tragic, very tragic. - gryphon50, on 04/09/2009, -2/+32Kudos to her for speaking out, also. Why should a rape victim be ashamed? I think you should only be ashamed of things you do, not things that are done to you.
- phrenzy, on 04/09/2009, -0/+30While I'd love to say I'd jump in and heroically pull the guy off of her and hold him until the authorities came, I would be terrified that somebody doing something so psychotic and brazen would think nothing of shooting or stabbing me to death for getting in the way of his animal needs. I'm not unusually strong. I've never been in a fight. And I don't normally carry a weapon.
That said, I can only hope I would fight through that terror to at least set aside my concern for my own well being long enough to find a way to stop him from brutalizing a person right in front of me. - AmazingSteve, on 04/09/2009, -7/+37It's a sad state of affairs when grown men can see this happen and NOT ONE thought it might be a good idea to crack this douchebag's skull wide open. I hope she sues the city for millions.
- DiMierism, on 04/09/2009, -1/+29No rape should be tolerated. Period. The fact that this took place in a place as public as the NYC subway is despicable.
- gyrfalcon, on 04/09/2009, -15/+43New York fails too, it disallows it's citizens to protect themselves using firearms and other weapons. Part of the reason something like this can happen is because people don't care about others liberty.
- DrCyclops, on 04/09/2009, -2/+28Just over 45 years ago New York City couldn't find 1 person in 38 who would step up to protect a fellow citizen. I guess nothing much has changed.
- theSAMOL, on 04/09/2009, -0/+25Every time I overcook a burrito in the microwave it makes me want to go kill someone.
- michelsonmorley, on 04/09/2009, -2/+25Does New York not have Good Samaritan laws?
- gyrfalcon, on 04/09/2009, -6/+29@thomas040 "Are you condoning the right to carry a gun around? If everyone had that right, you really think the girl would have had a gun? It probably would have been even more likely that the dude had one. And then what would have happened?"
Yes I condone the rights of law abiding citizens to carry weapons. What happens is not written in stone, but having a tool to defend yourself is generally better than being defenseless.
"Interview with Rhonda Carter, a nurse in Kentucky. Late one night she returned from her shift, carrying her gun in the glove compartment, which she had routinely done for some time. One reason she did this was that her husband was a police officer and often was not home when she returned at night. She parked the car, got the gun, and exited the garage. An assailant seized her arms, turned her around (so that her back was to him), and started to tear at her clothes. Unable to aim, Ms. Carter aimed over her left shoulder, guessing where the assailant might be. He fell over and she called police. Assailant died of single bullet wound to the heart. Interviewer asks Ms. Carter if she feels any remorse for the would-be rapist. She pauses for a long moment and then says, "No. He attacked me and I defended myself. It sounds callous, but no."
http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books%20and%20N ... - inactive, on 04/09/2009, -0/+23http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to defend anyone, but people need to be aware. Our brains are not perfect, and our brains do not always come to the proper conclusion - but if you're aware that the brain has a tendency to make these kinds of mistakes, you're more likely to be able to short circuit the brain's natural response and take some ***** action. All it takes is one person's actions to break the spell and get others to get involved, so just keep that in mind. - spritom, on 04/09/2009, -1/+23FTA:
"the woman has been told by a judge that two transit workers who saw her being attacked had no obligation to do anything to help her other than to signal their superiors that police were needed at the station."
Likewise, the Supreme Court has ruled (in another repeated rape case) that even the police do not have an obligation to help. - Nar1117, on 04/09/2009, -0/+21It's called bystander apathy. It's a well-studied psychological phenomenon which centers around the same ideas as mob mentality. If no one does anything, it is much less likely for even one person to do something. On the contrary, if just one person acted, everyone else would have too... or at least there's an 80% chance.
All it takes is one abnormally extroverted person to not care about what other people think and kick the guy in the face. - Diefree, on 04/09/2009, -2/+23You're right I can't say with a 100% on what I'd do having never been in a situation like that. But I like to think I'd do more than sit there and let it happen RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.
- spritom, on 04/09/2009, -2/+22Not since that Seinfeld episode.
- Ineedanap, on 04/09/2009, -13/+33http://digg.com/world_news/Armed_customer_kills_ro ...
A few days ago, that thread was on the front page. The vast majority of the people in that thread condemned the customer for shooting a robber. Suddenly, this week, it is not ok to stand by while a crime is commited.
Make up your minds diggers. - TheIndigoSky, on 04/09/2009, -2/+21Agreed. Did you even read the article, kismetropolis? While you can argue they had a moral obligation to help this woman, the law does not obligate them to put themselves at risk doing the job that law enforcement officials should be called for. The ruling was 100% correct.
- byrdboy, on 04/09/2009, -12/+30This, friends, is why I will apply for my CCL as soon as I turn 21. There are far too many spineless human beings standing around not willing to do anything for someone in dire need for you and I not to arm ourselves and properly train on how to handle emergency situations.
This includes basic things like how to call the police. - DrCyclops, on 04/09/2009, -7/+25How are you going to record video with your phone and maintain proper gun safety at the same time? Riddle me that, Charlton Heston.
- Larsonal777, on 04/09/2009, -1/+19Yeah... I doubt the assailant would understand the clerk over the loud speaker.
- blackinthmiddle, on 04/09/2009, -5/+23I'll probably get dugg down for this, but as a father of two daughters I'll once again play devil's advocate. Imagine the guy steps out of his booth and the rapist pulls out a gun. Oh *****!!! You went from trying to save this girl from rape to trying to save your own life. He puts two bullets in your back and runs. The girl doesn't get raped, but you're paralyzed for life. What's more, because you went outside of procedures dictated by the MTA, they refuse to pay your pension. You've now got kids to feed and bills piling up (not to mention some of those bills being the care of your paralyzed ass) and no means of making money. And you guys say...what exactly?
It's easy to call these guys pussies when a gun isn't actually pointed in your direction. I grew up in a tough section of the Bronx and actually had a gun pointed at me (two to be exact). Your bravado will leave you *quickly*, let me tell you!
I'd like to think that I'd try and save this woman from getting raped. Again, I ask, what if you step out of that booth and the rapist pulls out a knife or a gun? Is it so unreasonable to think that he wouldn't have a weapon? - LucasHenderson, on 04/09/2009, -4/+21Bystander apathy FTL
- uptwolait, on 04/08/2009, -37/+54Another reason to allow concealed weapons everywhere. Video on my cell phone of popping his sorry ass in the act would be an open & shut case.
- wing05, on 04/09/2009, -1/+17Well, they did things by the book.
I've been to NYC. Life moves at a very quick pace with people going from A to B wearing blinders. Things in the peripheral and out of the ordinary are ignored.
Big cities do breed apathy but the unapathetic and safe thing to do would've been to try to scare the attacker off from a distance rather than jump in to it cosidering the MTA workers are there to keep the system running. - grovest4life, on 04/09/2009, -9/+25Welcome to new york where protecting your self is illegal and handguns are banned unless your a criminal, gun control fails.
- liuite, on 04/09/2009, -3/+18cowards
- fragomatik, on 04/09/2009, -1/+16I saw something like this happen on a train in Sydney Australia 30 years ago. It was 11:30 at night. I got into a rail car with only two other people on it. At first I thought the "couple" were just kidding around, so I just sat down and started reading my book. But then the girl's wails became more and more frantic and I looked up and somehow caught her eye in the reflection of the train window.
There was no doubt of that expression, she was scared! In that split second I realised what was really happening. I asked "..are you okay?" just to make sure, and she just shook her head. I got really angry not least for the reason that the bastard who was attacking her didn't even give a ***** that I was right there! He just assumed that I would do nothing!
It was foolhardy and dangerous but I couldn't help myself and I stood up with my briefcase held in front of me like a shield and yelled at him to let her go. I was scared ***** because although this guy wasn't too much to look at, he had a mean look about him, and as it turns out a knife which he started to threaten me with. At this point the train had reached another station, and the girl took the opportunity to run off the train while I distracted the attacker. She must've told the train guard because just as this guy was going to go postal on me, the train guard and the station master came into the carriage yelling at the guy that the police were on their way, and he ran off into the night....
I was shaking for ages afterwards from the reaction, the girl and the rail employees thanked me, but in all honesty all I did was distract the guy while she made a run for it. I like to think it is what anyone would do to help a another person in distress. I have two younger sisters, and the thought that some arsehole would attack them like this this, and that NO ONE WOULD HELP just drives me crazy. I couldn't live with myself. Sure, it could have gone horribly wrong, but if I had to live for these last 30 years knowing that I did nothing to help this girl, I would consider myself a poor excuse for a man...
My question for these MTA employees is: how do YOU live with yourselves? -
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