What is Digg?384 Comments
- raymondmarble, on 10/12/2007, -18/+246"If Atheism is a religion, then health is a disease!"
Clark Adams - Nathan07, on 10/12/2007, -19/+211No, atheism is not a belief. Lets breakdown the word, a-theism, ever study Latin roots? Well, when there is an "a" in front of a word it means without *word that follows a* and in this case, it is without a theocracy or system of belief in a god. (Which is what theism would be...)
Are you saying that a person (me for that matter) without a belief in god is more likely to be violent and a sexual predator??!!? That is just plain wrong.
Atheists don't want to deny your right to a religion, but at the same time they don't want your religion pushed on them on public documents and public organizations, as in things that EVERYONE (as in people of multiple religions or lack thereof) pays for and uses. Do you even understand the concepts under which this country was founded? Freedom and equality in the eyes of the law? Do you really not realize that your example also works for the situation of atheists right now?
And please, please, if you can bother to type all of that garbage... AT LEAST use the ***** spell check button RIGHT NEXT TO the submit button. Five seconds to not look like a complete idiot. - jcounterman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+118I am 23 years old, I have a college education, I have a good job doing good work, I have high morals that happen to be in line with those which are taught (although not often practiced) by the major religions. Unfortunately, because I wasn't raised in a religious family and I grew up thinking critically about our existence rather than being told it mirrors an old book, I will not be able to run for office in my home state of Texas.
Myhappyclam says that atheists are preventing him from practicing his religion, putting down his morals, and ruining the country. What kind of country is it that I, because of my lack of a belief in a God and for NO other reason, cannot even attempt to run for office? Not to mention that I wouldn't get a handful of votes because Christians would vote me down based on one thing (God)....I can't even submit my name to the ballet in my home state of Texas.
Myhappyclam....please don't bitch to me about the hardships of being a Christian...you have no right. - jshrimp3, on 10/12/2007, -7/+106The fact that the words are there on the coins, bills, and in the pledge of allegiance is, essentially, completely ignoring the atheist population. To say we are a nation "under God" is equivalent to saying we are a white nation, or a heterosexual nation, and that's completely untrue. Sure, if we were to call ourselves a white nation we would be criticized more, but that's just a matter of differences in population statistics, not just in our country but in the world. I don't have numbers to back me up, but I'm willing to bet that there are more non-whites in the USA than atheists, and same for the whole world.
I'm atheist, and I'm bothered because the pledge, or any other official government object, seal or document represents the nation, of which I am a part. Again, as I said, it's equivalent to saying "In Caucasians We Trust," the only difference being the magnitude of people offended, simply because there are more blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. in the US than there are atheists. - blapierre, on 10/12/2007, -8/+90Actually, I believe crime has been dropping for the last decade or two.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+84Athiests care about religion because religious people keep trying to enforce their religion on athiests (and everyone else).
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -8/+81people are coming at this argument all wrong, and debating faith vs atheism. what's under discussion here is RELIGION and why atheists think it's dangerous and wrong.
- mclove, on 10/12/2007, -4/+68This is like asking why men care about abortion rights - just because you're not a direct participant in something doesn't mean you're not significantly affected by it.
- JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+64I have a problem with a "nation under god" because it implies we are a nation of religion above a nation of LAW liberty justice . . The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, common sense, etc.
- netdroid9, on 10/12/2007, -31/+88@MrHappyClam: Wow. I've never seen someone so retarded in my life. You wouldn't happen to be as Islamic Extremeist, would you? 'Cause it sounds like you've got a Jihad on everyone who doesn't mindlessly believe the same religeon you do.
- chownrus, on 10/12/2007, -10/+63@daRoach
>Because atheism IS a religion
Sure, and bald IS a hair color. - speedstream, on 10/12/2007, -16/+67Oh no! Magical friend under attack. Time to mark this as inaccurate.
- jpyun, on 10/12/2007, -3/+51Indeed, you make a salient point. Let me add one more to the thrust of your argument; http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.jpg
According to this graph, it is clear that the decrease in the number of pirates in recent years has directly caused global warming.
Stop global warming. Become a pirate. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+54There is no such thing as god anyways, I just do not see why everyone else does not realize this. I am willing to let them beleive whatever the hell they want, as long as they do not try and enforce it on ME.
- ericvdb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+44Atheists don't complain too loudly about religion...only where religion intersects with government. Whether you know it or believe, by christian religious symbols on government buildings/schools/etc, it does promote it over other belief systems....or lack of belief system as is atheism. Most atheists are pretty content to let the religious folks live in their own little world....blissful and blind in an atheists opinion.
The idea is similar to that what we should be concerned with in reference to things like the patriot act and situational torture (with the presidents approval of course)....what begins as a small concession to our liberties has the potential to become policy in the not to distant future. - slythfox, on 10/12/2007, -7/+43To make something clear, if your an Atheist, it doesn't mean you don't believe in anything, just not in god(s)/higher power(s).
That video was actually kind of interesting. It pointed some things that I hadn't known before, like how some states deny you certain rights if you do not believe in "god." So much for separation from church and state.
And of course, this video echoed the most important thing that is wrong with the United States today is that there are movements against gay marriages and abortion "all because of someone else's religious beliefs." People are so self centered. That's not what faith is suppose to do.
@thehouse, like I said above, Atheists can still have their own beliefs. Think of it as a religion where you get to choose what you believe. - myFriendDerrik, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36"Indeed, countries containing high percentages of non-believers are among the most healthy and wealthy nations on earth"
-Phil Zuckerman
Atheism: Contemporary Rates and Patterns
[http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html] - elf586, on 10/12/2007, -7/+40i am agnostic, there are two things that bug me about religion, when someone tries to push their religion on me, this includes people standing out in the middle of an area that i HAVE to walk through yelling about their religion, and the second which is really just an extension of the first, when laws are created based on religious beliefs and nothing else.
other than that i don't really care what religion anyone is. - eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31atheism means "lack of belief". eg there is no evidence at all of a supreme being or a higher power, so I do not believe that a higher power exists.
religion, christianity particularly, has historically been a means of controlling the unwashed masses. "pay this tax and reserve a spot in heaven" sort of deal. "do what we say or go to hell". it's been the basis for so much war, hypocrisy and persecution (in both directions) in both past and present it's not surprising that people equate it with these things. there's a famous quote, I don't recall who by: "good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things all by themselves; for a good person to do evil things, that takes religion." - amohongos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28"And if anyone has noticed that with the drop in people who believe that the number of crimes have increased?"
Atheist population of the United States 5-10%
Atheist population in the American prison system: 0.2%
source: holysmoke.org - GreatToast, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28No actually, a lack of belief in something doesn't require proof. The burden of proof rests with the positive existential argument.
For example. I could tell you I'm a rosaponyin, and that I believe invisible pink ponies run on treadmills to warm the center of the earth and allow life to exist. Having provided no evidence, you would be quite right to assume I'm wrong. This makes you an a-rosaponyin, but that doesn't mean a-rosaponyism is your religion. It just means you're not willing to accept exceptional claims without exceptional evidence. Got it? - poxonyou, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28I'm an atheist, and I don't really care what others believe in, and I don't push my non-beliefs on them.
- foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26I relate perfectly.
I refuse the the pledge of allegiance.
I hate people who think we are a bunch of Satan worshippers.
I hate the discrimination. - jayhawk, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27Falldog, atheism is not a belief in the sense that most people think of beliefs. i am sure you don't believe in unicorns, yet you wouldn't say that you have the belief that unicorns don't exist; rather, you just accept that it is foolish to believe in unicorns (or santa). an atheist feels the same way about a god or gods.
- millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Common Myth: "Under God" was always in the Pledge of Alliegiance
Fact: It was added during the McCarthy era
Common Myth: Christmas - only Christians should celebrate it
Fact: Christmas is merely the Pagan holiday "Yule" with Christ's birthday tacked on to it. This was to try and lure the Pagans aways from Paganism to Christianity. If anything, the Pagans are the only ones "entitled" to celebrate it. (In actuality, Biblical scholars have no idea when Christ's birthday really was, if it happened, but popular belief is sometime in September).
That should take care of a few popular excuses when Atheism is attacked. - chownrus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Really, are you an atheist?
If not, how can you be so sure what we believe?
Do you believe in Zeus? Vishnu? Invisible pink unicorns? or the (obligatory)The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
What evidence do you have that they do not exist?
We are all atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. - Chasin_Fat_Kids, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28Good video. But you're preaching to the choir. Rational thought is all but dead in America; all that left is bulldada.
Another Dark Age? Can't wait! - 955701, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23@thehouse
Common mistake. An atheist doesn't believe there are no gods, an atheist does not believe there are gods. There is a difference. One is an active disbelief, the other is a passive lack of belief. It only seems active to people who assert their religion on an entire group of people despite the individuals' beliefs.
Read http://www.amazon.com/Atheism-Case-Against-Skeptics-Bookshelf/dp/087975124X for more info. And Atheism: a reader is a good followup. - oneiroi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25The United States I believe is THE most or one of the most religious developed nations in the world, and it has one of the highest if not the highest crime rate of all developed nations.
You have countries like Great Britain with 2 percent of the population going to church, and guess what...no lawlessness or rampant crime.
You don't need to have a concept of god to be a moral person. - africanherbsman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Maybe instead of being completely close minded, arrogant, intolerant, selfish, and paranoid you should try learning a little something about what you took the liberty to write about. Who the hell is denying you to practice your religion? Is that a ***** joke or something?
I'm sure if atheist values were printed on currency you'd go ape *****, but since christian values are there instead, they're the ones who need to chill out. Most atheists don't even want that, all they want is the separation of church and state which you'd see is more than reasonable if you would just pull your head out of your ass and gain some common sense. *****! - Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21The only time I care about religeon is when it is used to justify limiting the freedoms of myself and others.
The video was pretty much spot on, about that. Why do many states not allow one to buy beer on a sunday, for example? Religeon. You can tiptoe around it and come up with silly excuses but that's the root reason. Its people with one religeon deciding to make some retarded laws to force everyone -else- to do as they do.
The correct way to handle such a restriction (in this case, for example) is to say to the religeous nuts that if they dont want to buy beer on sunday, then they don't. Not to restrict what everyone -else- can do.
This same principle should go for many things. Pity it doesnt - people prefer to force their way of life on others. - Shadow6363, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22If you indeed believe that having religious symbols throughtout our lives and government does indeed do no harm. Two years ago, during High School, a friend of mine was given detention because he refused to say "under god" during the pledge. Many others felt sympathy for him as they too thought it was wrong. They too were given detention. Eventually the kid that started it all was thrown out of school for no reason other than being "disrespectful." Since then, I have moved onto college and from what I hear, they no longer require you to even partake in the daily pledge; however, that one kid may have just lost his chance at an education. I'm sure he probably ended up somewhere else, but if not, those two words could have just cost him his dreams and much more. Religion as well as atheism practiced casually is fine, but last time I checked our government is supposed to have no interaction whatsoever with religion. So much for that ideal...
- CDHarrisUSF, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20@ mushoo
No, it's closer to "I don't believe in the tooth fairy, so I don't want my government policy and/or tax money being wasted on promoting/endorsing the tooth fairy." I also wouldn't want to use the same methods to spread a message saying that God *doesn't* exist. Religion should remain in the private sector. Governments should not concern themselves in the personal lives and religious beliefs of their people.
The fact is that the fundamentalists (with the support of a large chunk of the religious majority) feel the need to *officially* attach their beliefs to just about everything (including science classes)... and, when other people are offended by it, many of them then get offended just by other people being offended by their need to have their religion recognized as the official religion. Who is at fault? I posit that the former is to blame.
So, I ask you: Why are you offended by non-Christians being offended by Christians wanting their God mentioned in everything that is American? The Christians are not alone in this country. Why should the non-Christians have to accept having someone else's religion shoved in their face by their own government? I, personally, am disgusted by that thought.
Also, if it's such a minor, unimportant issue as you suggest... then, why do the Christians do it in the first place... and why do they get a persecution complex (despite making up 80-90% of the population) and have protests when the government decides to remove a religious item/reference from government policy/property?
To get *anything* done in the government, the atheists have to have support of a large portion of the Christians... meaning that when a secular decision is made, there were logically more CHRISTIANS behind it than there were ATHEISTS... yet many of the fundamentalist Christians ignore this fact and bitch about the "godless" people who voted against them... a group which primarily consists of fellow Christians.
Who do you blame for being annoyed... the child saying "I'm not touching you" repeatedly... or the subject of his/her torment? This is not a one time event. This is a series of transgressions by the same group. They never back down. They keep pushing and pushing and pushing... and when someone pushes back they get offended.
I'm sorry for the large post. I just can't stand people like that. - Chasin_Fat_Kids, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19What about the little belief that it was OK or "God's will" to own slaves? I could go on...
- themulf, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25I believe in science, and the scientific process. There is nothing mystical or religious about it. Atheism is not a religion, but for those who love to blather on with philosophy and call everything under the sun religion.... your just off on some other plane. No real atheist would consider his ideas as a dogma or religion... only those whom are defensive over their stubborn and magical beliefs.
- scrambled, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22"Do you think atheists know for a fact there isn't a God(s)?"
Do you know for a fact there aren't unicorns? Or leprechauns?
I don't have to disprove anything. You're the one making the claim, and therefore need to support it with something other than your claim itself. Extroardinary claims require extroardinary evidence.
I personally don't think there's a need for the word "atheist". There is no word describing one who does not believe in pixies. It's just common sense. - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Everyday I walk around and people ask me if I mind going to hell.
Everyday people try to convert me to x religion because they want to "save" me from hell
Religion is the single thing holding back out knowledge and thinking skills. If not for religion, we would have been 800+ years ahead technology wise. (Dark Ages + Middle Ages)
We would have no wars over religion, and the slaughter of innocents will stop.
Without religion, people wont live in fear of a totalitarian regime that takes power through religion as a rallying point. Genocide over religion would not exist.
Tell me this. Do 99% of the Christians follow the 10 commandments?
How many times has the church or pope changed the rules against what has been dictated int he bible out of conviniency?
How many times have middle-eastern leaders used Islam as a rallying point to murder innocent people?
How many times have Hindus and Muslims gone killed each other over petty religious squabbles?
and answer this... How many times have atheists killed people over religious beliefs? - jcounterman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18He's not saying that Jews shouldn't be allowed to hold office....but the law says that an Athiest sure as hell can't.
This isn't changing the moral fiber of the country...just allowing all its citizens the same rights. - sjm20k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18A lot of people are missing the point here. This guy is not trying to push atheism on to you. He doesn't care what you personally believe, he only cares about the permeation of religion into government and his own civil rights. He is stating how unlawful it is to make laws based only in religious beliefs. If you cannot hold office because you have no religion, then it is discrimination, no two ways about it. If I am not allowed to sell my liquor on Sunday because you don't want it stopping people from going to church, tough noogies - that's not your right to stop me. You can say to your religious group/cult/whatever that it is forbidden, but that is all you re allowed to do. Religion has no place in laws or on documents of governmental importance because government and religion are two very separate entities for very good reasons.
- uptown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17On the plus side, it looks like you can get out of jury duty in 7 states!
- Nathan07, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19But don't you see that you are doing the same thing to atheists? The only way to be fair to all religions or lack of religions would be to remove references from public property and documents and such. Preferential treatment toward one religion is not equal. It is like saying your beliefs are better than others, which is not something our forefathers would have accepted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Jesus is a zombie, of course he's creepy.
- themulf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Wow.. wow.... now math is on the same level as fairy tells... nice.......
- AJRiddle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17@pox
it was a joke
But seriously, I think the smartest thing to do is admit your ignorance to the subject and the fact you cannot know 100% for sure until you die... - StevethePirate, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Frankly, I find religion and devoted followers of religion frightening. I dunno about you, but all this 'jesus rose from the dead' stuff scares the crap outta me.
- Somniis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Atheism is not a religion. It is simply non-belief in any god(s). How hard is that to understand?
And no, religion is not a big part of everyone's social life. People are stupid, they are sheep. They live by repetition - which dulls the mind. They will gladly believe in God for the reward of an afterlife. It is all about personal greed, as usual.
One of my favorite paragraphs on atheism:
"How would we be better off without religion?
We'd all be freed to concentrate on the only life we are ever going to have. We'd be free to exult in the privilege -- the remarkable good fortune -- that each one of us enjoys through having been being born. An astronomically overwhelming majority of the people who could be born never will be. You are one of the tiny minority whose number came up. Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one. The world would be a better place if we all had this positive attitude to life. It would also be a better place if morality was all about doing good to others and refraining from hurting them, rather than religion's morbid obsession with private sin and the evils of sexual enjoyment."
This is why we (atheists) care about religion. We realize that it is simply an ideal of an ancient time that hasn't died out yet. We realize that it is a plague on society.... just not fully known by the masses yet. - CDHarrisUSF, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Atheism deals with belief.
Agnosticism deals with knowledge.
Those are the real meanings... not the distorted popular usage versions.
* If you know that God exists... you are a gnostic theist.
* If you know that God doesn't exist... you are a gnostic atheist.
* If you don't know whether God exists or not but choose not to believe in him without any logical reason... you are an agnostic atheist.
* If you don't know whether God exists or not but choose to believe in him anyway... you are an agnostic theist.
I am an agnostic atheist. - Chasin_Fat_Kids, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Ran across this on Google's Quote of the Day - I thought it fit:
What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.
- John Ruskin - mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Im an atheist, but I dont feel opressed or anything. Some of the laws mentioned are retarded, but for the most part, hes going too far.
Would I rather see currency without "In God We Trust?" Sure. Do I actually care? No.
Actually, while I respect people's right to practice as they see and have no intention of stopping them other than some theological debate, I actually see religious people are somewhat ignorant. I know this may be an arrogant comment, especially since I am in the minority, but I think that most religious people are closed minded, ignorant, and even brainwashed to an extent. - arkitect, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Part of having a belief in something is having faith in something. The fact that you are arguing that you have to have some sort of faith to believe in the absence of something is ridiculous. You are basically implying that the burden of proof is on atheists to prove that god doesn't exist. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist, therefore atheists can never win. No one in the history of the world has ever been able to prove that something does not exist because it could always be somewhere else. It is the group that believes in god that needs to prove that god exists before anyone can call atheism a belief. Atheism is the only logical conclusion one can come too given the fact that not one shred of evidence exists to support the existence of god. Until god is proven to exist, Atheism is not a belief.
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