What is Digg?153 Comments
- inactive, on 02/23/2008, -2/+62Anyone who is thinking they won't get hooked on heroin should read this story carefully...
- phlll, on 02/23/2008, -1/+41Many of the homeless are mentally ill, and this country doesn't want to have the infrastructure to give them the proper treatment. A short stay in a hospital and then they're tossed out. They can't get the treatment needed, and lose everything along the way.
So I'd say it's not their fault. Bad luck, as you'd phrase it. - inactive, on 02/23/2008, -1/+29Wow, good find. It does make you think...
- Coffeedemon, on 02/23/2008, -0/+24Some end up there after running away from home and never finding a way back out, some hurt some part of their body and don't have the benefit of some sort of insurance so they end up completely broke and unable to do any of the work they used to (most people in this situation haven't done university or maybe even high school so that limits their choices).
Think about what that life does to your psyche ... some can come back and make their way back to society but a lot get mentally broken due to the inherent depression, physical and emotional battering that comes with the territory. Noone in their right minds *chooses* this for anything other than an experiment. - Ramble, on 02/23/2008, -1/+23Both. No issue is black and white.
- cr4ft, on 02/23/2008, -4/+26I'd like to ask a question to the general digg community, I really don't give ***** whether I get dugg up or down because I'm trying to figure this out and it's bothered me for quite some time.
Do you believe that being homeless is something that a person ultimately chooses for themselves? Meaning, if I see a homeless person on the street, what is most likely their situation; that by sheer and horrible luck they've end up there OR, that along the time of their life, bad choices (ie: not wanting to work, being lazy, etc) have led them to homelessness? - cr4ft, on 02/23/2008, -0/+21I guess "motivational speaker" wasn't one of your career choices...
- mobling, on 02/23/2008, -7/+27Veterans housing as envisioned by the veterans administration.
- azurechaos, on 02/23/2008, -0/+17I don't believe it's something you can say is one way or another. Certainly there are people who choose to go out and live on the streets to get away from the stresses of a typical american life. On the other hand most people I know live paycheck to paycheck, and something as simple as a visit to the emergency room or having to get your car fixed can send someone into debt, destroying any savings they might have had. It's an incredibly fragile situation for many people, so I can understand that some people ultimately fall under its grip.
What's really sad is when someone has become so tattered by their years on the street trying to stay alive that when they try to apply for a job, you're supposed to have a phone number they can call you at, address, etc. Otherwise you can probably find some no questions asked day labor but if you're completely weak or old, that's not much of an option.
One of the most striking experiences I had with a homeless man was when I'd taken some fruit with me down the main drag here in Austin, and I gave this old guy an apple, he looked back up at me and said "...I can't eat apples, my teeth are too weak..." It hadn't ever occurred to me that even if they wanted to eat something, they might not be able to. So I gave him an orange instead, but I was floored. - variant5, on 02/23/2008, -1/+15One thing my friend and I often remind each other of is how every one of us is only one tragic event away from having to ask for money from others on the street.
- ziptnf, on 02/23/2008, -7/+20WHOOPS, just got hooked on Heroin.
Dammit, I should really be more careful. - Typhoon2009, on 02/23/2008, -0/+12From the article... "His sisters found out"... why couldn't they help him?!
- azurechaos, on 02/23/2008, -2/+14::hands you the douche award::
- Starflyer59, on 02/23/2008, -2/+13He was the man in the box.
- Emilylime, on 02/23/2008, -0/+11You obviously don't know much about mens shelters..
- MrSilverblood, on 02/23/2008, -0/+11Wow, amazing story. I had to keep reading to make sure it wasn't a former teacher of mine, Mr Foley of Forest Grove Middle School in Worcester....thankfully it was a different man. But still very traggic none-the-less.
I hope this is a good start for the rest of his life. No one deserves to live in those kind of harsh conditions. I'm also kind of shocked the police allowed him to stay on that corner. That was very kind of them. - Rotzooi, on 02/23/2008, -2/+12Yeah, I'm sure he just loves being homeless. You know, with all the perks that being homeless allows him and all...
- TheWriteGuy, on 02/23/2008, -1/+11You may as well look at well-to-do people and ask similar questions: Did they get rich from hard work, luck, or because they inherited their wealth? The answer is, there are no simple answers.
- jdeuel, on 02/23/2008, -1/+11We've all seen the man at the liquor store beggin' for your change
The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked, and full of mange
He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes
"Get a job you f**king slob," is all he replies
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
'Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues - restlessdesign, on 02/23/2008, -1/+9I'm guessing you've never helped out a homeless person in your life (or anyone else for that matter). Way to be compassionate.
- theutopian, on 02/23/2008, -0/+8Most apartments in Manhattan are no bigger than this box. The guy should sell it to a real estate developer. He's make a killing.
- squirrelza, on 02/23/2008, -1/+9And there is millions like this in South Africa and the rest of the world.
- pak314, on 02/23/2008, -0/+7When I used to go to UC Berkeley there were masses of homeless on the street. Used to give a few dollars here and there to them. One time there was this man with a dog. I really felt sorry for the dog because it was scrawny looking. I gave him more than usual. A few days later I see that guy smoking something. Obviously my money didn't to more useful things. This really pissed me off and changed me. I made that money working two jobs while in an engineering program. My mom used to work 7 days a week after our father died to keep up financially. And this guy blows of money like that. I stopped giving money to people unless the need is very clearly identified.
- rentmitchum, on 02/23/2008, -2/+9Yea, it sucks living in a coffin sized box on a busy street. Who'd have known without this article?
- MateyO, on 02/23/2008, -0/+7Working downtown, it's something I've given some thought to. If I took all my savings and gave it to them, the biggest difference would be that next week, there'd be one more vagrant downtown asking for handouts. Instead, I give a reasonable amount of money to the people that reach out to these people. (local food banks, and most importantly, Habitat for Humanity). If someone is truly able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, I'll help them create a shelter for themselves, financial and literal.
I have a wife and kids, my responsibilities are to protecting and providing for them, but I _still_ do things to support those less fortunate, but not by giving them a handout walking down the street. That doesn't _help_ them. If I'm going to assist the needy, I want it to be in a way that does the most good. - restlessdesign, on 02/23/2008, -0/+6That's exactly what I was going to say before my edit time ran out.
- smacksaw, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5Concur. It's very easy to diagnose physical illness. There are measurables with tests, it's obvious if someone is bleeding, deformed, whatever. But mental illness is difficult to diagnose because psychology/psychiatry are not as scientific as they could be, and then it's invisible in many cases.
If we treat illness, mental illness needs to be part of the whole package. I remember as a psych 101 student they told us that 1 in 4 or 5 people could be diagnosed with a mental illness. It's prevalent.
Personally, I'm a libertarian. But when it comes to this, I'm a socialist. I believe that as libertarians we should take care of our society. However, just because I like privacy and low taxes doesn't mean I know how to deal with the mentally ill. So we need professionals.
Then, I look at crime and policing. A libertarian can say "I have a gun, that's how I deal with crime"...but these people are not criminals. They're ill. So maybe you're a libertarian who says "Ok, I'll pay my local taxes and fund the police."
That's the problem. These people don't need to be policed. Besides, it costs far more to police and incarcerate people than it does to treat them, especially proactively.
Again - I'm a libertarian. I'm all about economics. But the economics tell me that the pennies you pinch now become dollars in the future. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We are going to pay for these people one way or another. They will turn to crime to get money for their addictions. They will expose us to their diseases. They will harm our property values, strain our jails, our justice system, police, etc.
To save money we have to spend money and deal with this issue. Up front. So we have a situation where we can't do anything directly. We need professionals. They aren't criminals, but they cost society no matter what?
Best solution is not to let the free market decide, LOL. The best solution is to take care of them. Why? Because they're unhealthy, through no fault of their own.
Getting back to Vancouver. When I first lived there we had the NDP. They ran the province into the ground. But when the Liberals came in, they dumped the mentally ill on the streets. Now they're everywhere, they're breaking into my goddamn car all the time and leaving needles all over the city. Our crime rate went way up. Wow, who would have guessed? Morons. They ought to take all of the native BCers and house them and get them off the streets and send the rest back to wherever they came from and not burden BC with it. - barc0001, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5That's not what ssn697 said. We're talking about HEROIN. I've known people who have messed around with drugs, and the only ones who came to a bad end were the ones who played with heroin or meth. A relative of mine had a good job, pulling in $50 an hour and then started dating a skank who introduced him to meth. Within a year he was out of a job, unemployable because his mind was so scrambled, his house that he bought was about to be foreclosed on and he was deeply in debt. He managed to sell his house before the bank took it, but all of his equity that he got from the sale went to paying off the debts he'd accrued and to fund his meth habit for the next six months. Then he hit rock bottom, broke and homeless, and the skank left to go find someone else to buy her meth. He eventually moved in with relatives and is on medication now, but he's still so scrambled upstairs he can't keep a job if he gets one. And I mean simple jobs, not his former job type.
Heroin's even worse from what I see in the DTES in Vancouver, which my office is near. - fnv2001, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5
Believe it or not, in Manhattan, some people would consider living in a box a luxury. - HeroreV, on 02/23/2008, -2/+7A significant portion of those people are messed up in the head because of choices they made to continuously use harmful drugs. Even though they didn't choose to go crazy and be homeless, they did choose to engage in behavior that they probably knew would likely lead to mental disorders.
For those people, it is their fault they got into this mess, even if they are now helpless to get out of it. - MrBogard, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5"I can't understand what kind of human being actually steals from the homeless....."
Another homeless person maybe? - smacksaw, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5Yeah, I was talking about something similar in a different thread the other day. Heroin is unreal. I spend a fair amount of time in Vancouver's downtown eastside and it's shocking. Heroin use just seems to defy all logic and reason for the people who are on it.
And even if you can kick...it seems to always be in the shadows for these people.
This guy's story is typical as well. Self-medication. Pain management. We do a poor job as a society dealing with addiction, but we do even worse at pain management. Pain will make you do crazy things. Like heroin. - mousky, on 02/23/2008, -1/+6Calling them homeless has been a mistake. Their status has very little to do with a lack of housing or a lack of finances. It has mostly everything to do with mental health. We can give them housing, we can give them money, but it is all a waste if we don't deal with the underlying mental health issues.
- inactive, on 02/23/2008, -1/+6A- No one said America is the only place this happens.
B- No one prohibits the posting of stories from other countries on Digg
C- Calling someone a ***** for pointing out that the American media covers American stories is a little harsh.
D- Lecturing someone else about their country and then telling them not to lecture you about yours? Not the most effective way to make your point. - EmeraldTsurugi, on 02/23/2008, -0/+5It's Rivieri and the taser guys who make us hate them.
- Emilylime, on 02/23/2008, -0/+51. Last time I checked the government has nothing to do with good will, salvation army, first baptist, ect..
2. I highly doubt all businesses are open to the idea of hiring homeless people. Maybe some, but if the whole population of bums tried to get a job, they definitely wouldn't all get one.
3. What about the people born on the streets? They obviously didn't choose to be there.. - inactive, on 02/23/2008, -0/+4Too true. Most Americans tend to live less than two paydays away from the poorhouse.
- tektalk, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5Yes, and the bulk of American media happens to focus on little stories that are in/around/about America, perhaps you should look to National Geographic if you want the stories of poverty in the third world countries. No sarcasm intended...honestly.
- thedymest, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5I live in New York City, and actually you'd be surprised. The police are generally very tolerant of the homeless as long as they do not "disturb the peace.' There are so many homeless people that it would be very difficult for the police to arrest them all or have them all institutionalized or sent to shelters; there's just not enough room in any of these facilities for the mass of homeless people in Manhattan alone. In the winter when it's freezing out, the police even bring them inside the train/subway stations to sleep on the floors and it is against the law for them to stay outside in such brutal conditions (meaning that if police see a homeless person outside in any inclimate weather conditions, it's his/her duty to bring them somewhere sheltered.) The general public also doesn't really mind them because they're so much a part of the urban landscape, juts as common on the corner as a Starbucks.
- Dantetheinferno, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5So because someone ***** up, they don't deserve a second chance? You truly are an *****.
- synarchy, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5It's not as easy as saying most are mentally ill and don't get proper care. They also have civil rights, and you can't just haul them into a hospital claiming they are mentally ill because they live on the streets. I know a guy who's adult son is schizophrenic. He loves the kid and would do or pay anything for him to be happy. And, when the kid takes his medication, he can work and stay out of trouble. Problem is, he's an adult, and if he decides to go off his medication, he gets himself in trouble. Every time. And every time the dad has to go and beg him to stay on his medication, get him out of jail, help him deal with the mental health and criminal justice system. It's a revolving door. The government gives him SSI, pays his rent, pays his medication, provides a case worker, etc., but he's still an adult and capable of making rational decisions when on his medication. So, half the time he's rational, and half the time on the streets. Without his dad, he'd likely be on the streets all the time. What to do? This is NOT the fault of government. It's life, and life is tough.
- inactive, on 02/23/2008, -0/+4Mental illness is one of the major factors leading to homelessness. that isn't a choice, it is an affliction. Choosing to use drugs to alleviate the daily pain of those voices in your head is probably the most sane thing some of these people do. I look at a homeless person who asks me for change, and I ask myself if i would hire them for a job. If I answer no, I give them the money. The answer has never been yes, so far.
- Xondar, on 02/23/2008, -0/+4That's why you do what the above poster did and give people FOOD instead of money! Geeze, where is your common sense? That dog would have eaten up a burger from McDonald's and it would have been extremely cheap for you to buy.
Whenever I have a homeless person ask me for money I offer to buy them a meal instead. One time two kids asked my brother for money cause they were "so hungry," he went and bought them McDonald's instead, but they were nowhere to be found when we got back. We had two extra McDonald's meals, but at least we never fuelled any possible drug addiction.
Seriously, don't bother giving them money, what they really need is food and other essentials. - digindrivefast, on 02/23/2008, -1/+5Family intervention and "help" isn't always accepted. First of all the family has to be "aware" and the chances are he hid his addiction and pain so well that they didn't see it. The whole thing is a downward spiral from there; he has his "pride" too and that prevents his admission that he's in too deep.
Lat week, the post about the college grad with $25 and a credit card in his back pocket outraged me! Of course, I was dugg down for it... We do not need experiments or stories for that matter to show the world our down and out on the streets of America. So many people, families are one pay ck away from being homeless and it's getting worse... Do not give the money, work a shelter, find positive ways to be a giving, compassionate person... - Number23, on 02/23/2008, -3/+7The unfortunate reality of the situation is the overwhelming majority of homeless are mentally ill / drug addicted and should be institutionalized in some for or another. However, the ACLU and other leftist groups oppose every effort to do just that.
There was a case in NY when Koch was mayor of a homeless women throwing her waste at passersby, he had her picked up and held at Bellview so she could receive the meds to get her some degree of sanity. Immediately the ACLU sprung to action and got to court to order her released. How very compassionate. - Emilylime, on 02/23/2008, -0/+4I agree with the first part.
- mousky, on 02/23/2008, -0/+3Can we also bulldoze all the rent controlled apartments that the wealthy benefit from? Just wondering...
- iradel, on 02/23/2008, -0/+3Don't give them $. If you want to be nice, buy a piece of food or something and give them that.
- thunderclap, on 02/23/2008, -1/+4Not all homeless are mentally ill. So are simply economically disadvantaged. That people who lost his job thru downsizing, layoffs and was living paycheck to paycheck with no serius friends or family could easily end up there. And it seems a lot of us forgot the Great depression. Yes substance abuse leads to it, but our society and ours (along with the rest of the worlds) greed leads to it too.
- 10001110101, on 02/23/2008, -1/+4Wow.. Very Burroughs-esque (ever read Exterminator! ?)
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