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526 Comments
- doublefelix, on 12/09/2008, -1/+330This is at least 2008 years old.
- swordedge, on 12/09/2008, -0/+202The Catholic church has always admitted that they don't know the actual birth date of Jesus. I was taught that it was probably in the spring. The Dec 25th date was a pagan ritual that they took over.
- LucerinRed, on 12/09/2008, -1/+180I don't see how this is a factual inaccuracy. If you know your history, you know that the date we celebrate Christmas was CHOSEN by the Vatican to coincide with the Winter Solstice celebration many pagans celebrated.
- Spuby, on 12/09/2008, -7/+101does it matter?
- samtorx, on 12/09/2008, -15/+96J for June, J for Jesus
- TsuruchiBrian, on 12/09/2008, -63/+142It is made even more complicated by the fact that it may not have even happened at all.
- YoctoYotta, on 12/09/2008, -96/+174Wait one second, is it being implied that there are factual inaccuracies with the Christian religion?!?!?! What's next, you're going to tell me there was no talking snake and ritual sacrifice of children is bad?
- divinediva, on 12/09/2008, -14/+86It seems difficult to me to pinpoint the exact day of Jesus’ birth.
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -6/+75Christmas is celebration of light, when the darkest day the year has passed. It's is "birthday" of our sun. What I know, christians are not claiming it's the actual birthday of Jesus but they are celebrating it on that day.
- nreynolds, on 12/09/2008, -27/+87@ RetepNamentos
that's not even a little bit true. While most historians agree that jesus probably did exist, there's no where near the mountain of evidence there is of Caesar, aside from some books written 50+ years after his death. Don't just say ***** because you think it sounds good. Caesar abso-*****-lutely existed, Jesus only almost definitely existed. - uknowwhoibe, on 12/09/2008, -1/+57I'm not a Christian, however was raised a staunch one.
I don't remember the Bible ever saying that "Jesus was born in December."
IIRC, that's just the month we've decided (read: our ancestors and such) to celebrate the holiday. - georgemason01, on 12/09/2008, -7/+62""We are not saying this was definitely the Christmas star - but it is the strongest explanation for it of any I have seen so far."
So they're looking for a star vaguely described in the Bible, which they are basing their entire study off of, and they're not even positive they have the right star based on the assumptions they are making. I think it's equally possible he was born in May : http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/post029. ...
Or September: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jesus-born- ...
Or sometime in Spring: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200612 ... (yahoo answers...need I say more?)
Or March 28. Or April 2. Or November 18: http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn08/whenwaschris ...
I think the evidence is clear. - mdelling, on 12/09/2008, -4/+58I don't think anyone has ever argued that Christ was actually born on Christmas day. As I understand it, the church wanted a day to celebrate his birth, and since they didn't know the real day, they picked one. But really... who cares.
- zakangelle, on 12/09/2008, -9/+54I think the real question here is, how do we know we are not living in a computer simulation?
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -17/+62And that's even before you stop to consider the possibility that he may never even have claimed to be the son of God. The gospels were written decades after his death, and one has to wonder how much was embellished.
- PhantomJM, on 12/09/2008, -1/+45If you go by the article, this is actually 2010 years old.
- diggduggDOOM, on 12/09/2008, -5/+48"I think the real question here is, how do we know we are not living in a computer simulation?"
Little known fact: the sky is just a daily BSOD - angusm, on 12/09/2008, -7/+50Jesus: "The worst part is that because everyone thinks my birthday is in December, they all give me socks and mittens and heavy sweaters. What I really want is a surfboard."
- tonicboy, on 12/09/2008, -1/+43One thing is clear, Jesus was certainly not born in an open manger in the middle of winter. Early Christians simply "tweaked" Jesus' birth date to coincide with the Roman holidays of Saturnalia (Dec 23) and the feast of Sol Invictus (Dec 25) as a way to co-opt Roman holidays.
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -1/+40old news. Of course he wasn't born on Dec. 25th! Google the history of Christmas!
- Hetman, on 12/09/2008, -4/+42Christmas is just a solstice festival. If Christians want to celebrate the birth of Jesus on that day good for them. If you do not want to, that is fine also.
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -13/+50jesus was also his own dad and could do magic
- cyrusuncc, on 12/09/2008, -3/+38There is more evidence that Jesus was born in the summer. Mary & Joseph were traveling to Bethlehem for the census. Reports show that those happened in the summer months, not in December. Plus shepherds watch over their flocks in the summer months. December 25th was chosen to coincide with the Winter Solstice in an attempt to wash out the pagan holiday.
- OrdinaryPanda, on 12/09/2008, -3/+33June for Juno, Roman Goddess. Get your deities straight.
- Tom10803, on 12/09/2008, -3/+31Dont let this get out, I like my december break
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -2/+30This is not news. Shepherds watch over their flocks in lambing season which is spring-summer.
- wing05, on 12/09/2008, -4/+30Christmas, Halowe'en, Easter.... all pagan festivals that crusaders and the expansion of Christianity tried to extinguish by moving Christian festivals on to.
Trees and santa stuck with Xmas, Dressing up, ghosts and candies stayed with Halowe'en and I guess the easter bunny along with whatever spring festivities that aren't particular X-ian remained. - sexybobo, on 12/09/2008, -1/+27The 25th of December was a pegan holiday way before it was Christmas. Christians did this a lot to take meaning away from the pegan holidays.
But Christmas is a celebration of Jesus's birth not his birthday. - Sonan, on 12/09/2008, -23/+49Jesus Schmesus. I wanna know when Santa was born! That's all that really matters anymore. Christmas is a secular holiday, celebrated for tradition alone, not because of some silly, ancient, totally unbelievable story.
- cyrusuncc, on 12/09/2008, -8/+33J is for jizzed in my pants
- sexybobo, on 12/09/2008, -21/+46Jesus was born and executed. The question is if he was the son of god or not. It is not if he was a real person.
- dk911, on 12/09/2008, -4/+28Not as much as your mom.
- AmyVernon, on 12/09/2008, -3/+24No, Virginia is for lovers.
- netneutrality, on 12/09/2008, -2/+23The calendar hasn't been consistent for the past 2008 years either. So it doesn't make much difference.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 12/09/2008, -1/+21Apprently building the LHC is difficult even for physicists.
- LucerinRed, on 12/09/2008, -3/+22Oh, I thought that stemmed from being completely crazy.
- lukeag10, on 12/09/2008, -12/+31I love to start my day off with a little blasphemy :)
- inactive, on 12/09/2008, -5/+23Seriously - if the Bible promoted the ritual sacrifice of children, I never would've left the church.
- Charlotte_Web, on 12/09/2008, -10/+28"Jesus was only significantly written about decades after his death."
Considering the times, that shouldn't be thought of as unusual, though. There were no printing presses, so it was a LOT of trouble to produce multiple copies of scrolls. No newspapers, no cameras, so the only way people hear news is word of mouth. No mass transportation, so most news probably didn't travel very far.
Also, I would think that the people who made a profession of writing would mostly be living in the larger cities. Jesus spent very little time in the big cities.
So, how is the son of a laborer supposed to get a lot of people writing about him if they don't know about him?
"There is a lot of contradictory accounts of Jesus' life. Many of the events that are supposed to have happened, are only acknowledged by individual people."
Actually, that's evidence FOR the authenticity of Jesus, that you have four gospel authors, and all four of them have different accounts. And where they do tell the same stories, they don't tell them exactly the same. If the four authors had conspired to make up the story of Jesus, you would expect that the stories would be almost exactly the same.
Anyway, back to the topic... it's actually well known among conservative theologians that Jesus wasn't born in December. For one thing, you don't have shepherds out in the fields in the middle of the night when it's the middle of winter. - burkhartmj, on 12/09/2008, -2/+20Sorry to burst your bubble, but of all those, only the one from judges is ritual sacrifice. the rest are various judgements [ironic isn't it] for peoples' wickedness.
- andyd273, on 12/09/2008, -1/+18And the one in Judges was not asked for by God.
Actually, it was a really stupid vow that went against the laws of Moses.
An interesting historical point is that the Canaan god Baal was worshiped in some areas around Israel during that time period, and one of the major parts of Baal worship was sacrificing your first born son (alive) in the fire.
It was one of the things that God sent the Israelites against the surrounding people in judgment for. - eastwood24, on 12/09/2008, -0/+17it was almost two hours.
- fungusmonkey, on 12/09/2008, -7/+24Wow, you mean Christmas is celebrated on the wrong day - a day that used to coincide with a pagan Winter holiday that the Christians wanted to get rid of?
Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that Easter is celebrated on the same day as a pagan fertility holiday (hence the eggs and rabbits). - PennFarmer, on 12/09/2008, -0/+17Sometime in the year 270 according to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas - rokinroj, on 12/09/2008, -17/+32(Exodus 13:2) - the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."
(Judges 11:29-40 NLT) - "At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering"...."her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin."
(2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB) - From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.
(Hosea 9:11-16 NLT) - The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."
(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT) - "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."
(Exodus 12:29-30 NLT) - And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.
(Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) - If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.
(Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT) - Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. - kooft, on 12/09/2008, -7/+22We're going to need Jesus to provide his birth certificate, and not some easily forged 'certificate of live birth' either.
- stanleyford, on 12/09/2008, -5/+20rokinroj, I am impressed by how much time you must have spent researching all those Biblical passages, none of which have anything to do with child sacrifice.
- lotar732, on 12/09/2008, -0/+15Considering our society has turned Christmas into a merchandising monster, and that most businesses do over 40% of their retail sales in Q4, I'd say if they just "moved Christmas" it would be quite significant. It may not matter to random computer nerds like the bulk of the digg community, but for the companies that manufacture winter related Christmas stuff, moving it to summer would be.... interesting.
- Grahamcracker, on 12/09/2008, -0/+14I would add about the one in Judges, it doesn't say that was a good idea. I've heard that before, and it was always in the light of "stupid sh*t people do in God's name without his endorsement". Also, sanctify does not equal sacrifice, more like they were set apart and regarded in light of the killing of the first born in Egypt, that people should remember that chapter in their history and be thankful for their firstborn. But infanticide and the death of children, yeah, there's tons of that. Israel went to war with nations partly /because/ they sacrificed children to their gods: "You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Molech, and so profane The Name of your God: I am The Lord" (Leviticus 18:21 RSV).
Killing children because their parents kill children, I'll give you that one, I can't say I understand that part. - bitweever, on 12/09/2008, -4/+18The disciples all existed, and were all willing to die horrible deaths because of what they witnessed and believed. If you're going to make a new religion, it may be fun for a few years, but you don't willingly lay down your life to be fileted alive because you want to make up a story about seeing your buddy after he was dead.
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