What is Digg?280 Comments
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -14/+159Very immature article title for such a profound speech.
When is Digg going to let us submit alternate titles that the public can digg? That would be (awesome!) - Daisuke, on 10/12/2007, -5/+113You know, I started watching this with the thought that it was going to be an outright unjustified bashing of Islam (after all, the title says "Lady SLAMS Islam (Awesome!)"), but she does detail some very interesting points. The fact that she has the guts to stand up and to say what she feels she needs to say is very courageous of her. I'd also like to note though that a lot of what she says does not apply to Westernized Muslim culture; her gripes mainly seem to be with the way some Muslims act in the Middle East with regards to other religions or groups of people.
- xpgeek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+61The title given to it here IS lame, but the video itself was not. It took a lot of courage for her to say the things she did in the place where she said them. I hope nothing bad happens to her because of them.
- SwabTheDeck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+56This was a really good video, but I don't know if Roulette chose the best wording for the title. It makes it sound like this lady is going to be renouncing the entire religion of Islam, but in reality she's just renouncing the practices of certain members that have been counter-productive to the advancement of society.
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45"They are not People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs."
Bravo, lady, bravo. Finally a middle-easterner than understands us and can tell her own people what we cannot say to them.
And then the news guy goes and has the nerve to call her a heretic. I've always said that they were like middle-aged Christians, but I never knew it was this bad... - blueskydiver76, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38Here is the transcript that I typed directly from the Video.
Nowhere in the video does it mention that this lady is an Ex-Muslim...just an Arab-American Psychologist.
BEGIN ========================================
MEMRI TV PROJECT
Arab-American Psychologist
Wafa Sultan
Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar)
February 21, 2006
Lady:
The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on the other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
Man:
I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Lady:
Yes, that is what i mean...
Man:
Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you dont mind...
Lady:
The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims,and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to stop this war,they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula,which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels. My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call ohter people by names they did not choose for themselves? Once he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma. They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's Wrath," or "Those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others? I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Man:
Are you a heretic?
Lady:
You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Man:
If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blashphemed agains Islam, the Prophet and the Koran...
Lady:
These are personal matters that do not concern you. Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, wehter they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs. The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims mus task themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
END======================================== - daeyeth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34A very emotionally charged and inspiring speech. The man responding to her as a heretic, however, represents the men in charge. It's sad to say but people like him will not change, just as Ann Coulter will never apologize.
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33@spyro: Regardless of what I think about the submitter, I refuse to digg down this story. That speech is one that I think everyone should hear. If this story is buried, I will personally resubmit it, again.
- ozguralaz, on 10/12/2007, -23/+51The topic is so annoying for muslim people
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+34Holy crap, I just watched the first 30 seconds and that's what I've been saying for awhile. The Muslim radicals over in the middle-east are like the Christians during the Middle Ages, of which there's no way to change their mindset.
In anycase, it must really suck to be a woman stuck in Islam.
and @spyrochaete:
Yea, other people have also recommended putting a thing in the "Bury Story" box, or next to it, that's like, "Real URL:" and if enough people put in a different URL, the digg link points to the new one. It'd cut down on blogs, that's for sure. - masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27There's a wikipedia article on her and transripts of all of her speeches/debates. She lives safely in Los Angeles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan - iupetre, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26That was a very stirring speech, and she is a brave woman for standing up like that. It's sad, but I wonder how long before SHE will be beheaded.
- melmyfinger, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26"Good is just a point of view." Remember that quote from Star Wars Episode III? I hope you do because there's a lot of truth behind that saying. When you start throwing around words like "the will of God" and "War on Terrorism," people become willing do some crazy *****. And no matter what it is that they're doing, they do it with great passion because it is their beliefs, values & ideals; they sincerely believe in their heart that what they are doing is the right thing to do.
That's one fundamental characteristic of all human beings, regardless of race, religon or nation. Human's will always have and will always fight for their differences. It's scary. It's sad. It's the truth. - honeymonster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21She makes a good stand but I’d like to hear the response from the Muslim guy that initially started lambasting her a “heretic”. Oddly exactly the type of behaviour she was criticising Muslims for.
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -12/+30Well i think she's right to say out what she thinks. Islam in the Middle East took a turn towards radicalism in certain places. Combine that with traditional ways, you have a world totally alien to western civilization.
Some of the things practised in the Middle East disturb me, like punishment for pre-marital sex and the cutting off of hands for theft. But that's just the way it is-like in America, there are powerful groups who want to integrate Christianity into the state, it's the same in the Middle East. There are some powerful groups who want to take things literally and who resist from changing with the times.
No doubt a thousand years ago, cutting off hands was an efficient deterrent-it wasn't even seen as barbaric. How barbaric can cutting off hands be when conquerers just slaughter entire populations of conquered territory? (Commonplace in Europe too)
Whereas Christianity has deviated much from its foundings and a lot of the original teachings have been discarded, Islam in the Middle East has yet to follow that route.
What saddens me is that the article title is actually pretty offensive. I'm fairly immune to shock (this is the Internet!!) but even this disturbed me. If people can agree with the OP, then perhaps there will be no peace in this world until it is torn asunder by the screams of war... - skifreak107, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Wait... what?
- zatrix, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23Yeah you keep saying that terrorism is "denounced", and yet there are enough people who call themselves muslims who apparently do not quite agree with you.
I'm not hating on you, I'm just saying. - eviltandem, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18She was exactly right. It is so sad what religion has done to that part of the world. These people used to be the smartest most educated on earth. Much of our math came from the middle east. They used to rightfully look on the mess that was medievil europe as barbarious and filthy.
Somewhere they lost all that for religious fundamentalism. That should be a warning to those who wish to push more religious fundamentalism in the western world. Your beliefs should be protected. However, the desire to force it on others should be fought by all of us. - beaurich, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@ skydiver
pulled this from the wikipedia article. Do not want to point out errors, just thought you would like to know
"says she was shocked into secularism by the 1979 atrocities committed by the Muslim Brotherhood against innocent Syrian people, including the machine-gun assassination of her professor in her classroom in front of her eyes at the University of Aleppo where she was a medical student. "They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings. It was the turning point of my life, and it has led me to this present point. I had to leave. I had to look for another god."" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21I think she's pretty hot. I'd totally make her one of my wives and oppress her and stuff.
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Wikipedia has transcripts AND videos of this speech and more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan
Also, she was rightfully chosen as one of the 100 People Who Shape Our World by Time. - Talphin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14And of course he calls her a heretic. Typical
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14The problem, pennpaper, is that you let the extremists set the debate. If you are renouncing terrorism, you are still letting extremists control the debate. It's not enough to just say "hey guys, murder is bad" every so often. The mainstream should be out there pushing its perspective and pushing its message, regardless of what the extremists are saying.
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13It was pretty awful how the second guy just started saying "oh you're a heretic, zomg! what you have to say is therefore worthless!"
- achew22, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Digg, The only thing I have to say about this though is that we will never see anything like this on American TV. She makes far too much sense for that.
- egghead152, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@Hayl Racist? You must be stupid. Could the video be construed as Anti Islam maybe…. but not really. She is against the mentality that seems to be quite prevalent in the Middle East. She is concerned about treatment of women, and the often-occurring violence caused by extremists. She then exemplifies the fruits of freedom that many Muslims in the Middle East are not responsible for. To consider that racism makes you stupid and slightly ignorant. Maybe you should watch the video again, and if you don’t speak Arabic try reading the words at the bottom. As for it being sad… the only thing that is sad is your inability to understand what is going on in the world around you. People are so sensitive these days calling everything racism. Get over it. Racism is hating someone because of their race, not because of their beliefs. Racism and hate don’t even pertain to this video. It is a simple criticism of beliefs, that is all.
- pennpaper, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17/me is a muslim. the title this guy chose is very offensive....
also, let me explain something to those who do not seem to understand. terrorism is denounced by most muslims and we feel it is denounced in the quran.
she seems to be disagreeing with the extremists, actually... not really the religion... not to point any fingers here, but ALL religions have had their misguided evangelists, haven't they? - SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12exactly. People look at things like racism and go "thats bad, we shouldn't do that" and then they fight over religion. "Thats bad too, we shouldn't fight over that" and then they fight over idealogy or something else. If all human beings had the eaxct same appearance and exact same religion and exact same politics, we'd fight over who lived on what side of the street.
Its in our nature to divide things and fight over them.
"right in two" - beaurich, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11That is a horrible comparison. Ann Coulter will never apologize because that is how she makes her money. Rush Limbaugh doesn't make money by saying, "this could be the way it is." He makes money by saying, "I am always right, and you are an ignorant buffoon if you disagree!" That is why Ann Coulter will never apologize.
This man will never change because his beliefs were instilled into him daily from the time he was born. Whether the philosophy is right or wrong, he won't apologize because his religion, or at least his version of it, tell him he is right and turning against it would be like turning against his ancestors. Ann Coulter is a lot more superficial than that, and that comment gives her entirely too much credit. - iheartspyware, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Is there a transcript anywhere?
- zatrix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I too am worried for her safety :(
- Vantrax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I have to say im impressed that someone would stand up and say something like that. It raises several valid points. Tho i tend to think she is right when the aludes to most of the problems with Islam revolve around severe missinterpretation of the teachings intended to incite conflict. Even terrorism as its currently done is strictly forbidden. They are not allowed to harm a single innocent, even in war.. so id love to see anyone blow a bus without hurting women and children.
- datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Of course I know what a point of view is. I just happen to believe (maybe somewhat idealistically) that there does exist a universal right and wrong. This concept does not change depending on which human brain decides to alter the concept.
- robpadbury, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"You can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me."
Superb - brokoli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11There is a period of 500-600 years between the coming of Islam and Christianity and it takes some time for civilizations to make reforms in dogmatic beliefs. This is the middle age of Islam, *hopefully* everything's gonna be better in the future if we can recover from today's wars that is...
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This basicly means she is either dead or hiding for the rest of her life.
- kanecorp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11She's not racist by even the smallest amount...the truth hurts though, doesn't it.
- pennpaper, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13i live in a mostly muslim country... public consesus is that terrorism is scorned. we don't agree with our religion being used as a front for such acts. terrorism is not islam and islam does not promote terrorism.
- kob0724, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7She makes excellent points. I will however reaffirm that this story could have been given a better title. I'm going to give it a major digg though. I think its importants that people like this are aloud to be heard. And maybe the sensationalism of the Title will help more people hear her.
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I live in a country with a ***** of muslim immigrants. I talked to muslims and ex-muslims - and characteristically the ex-muslims hide and shut UP about them becoming renegades. If an ex-muslim talks about his leaving the faith, it is actually dangerous for him or her.
And yes, I talked to multiple muslims and ex-muslims. Dozens. It is a consistent pattern even over here in the netherlands. Imagine how bad it must be in the middle east. - jackmaninov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6He doesn't even believe in proper spelling. I'm impressed.
- hongy_r, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9that was great. she made a lot of great points, but i agree with daeyeth, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
- mrops, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Its unfortunate people think "arab culture" = "islam". Its documented that Prophet Mohammad visited Christians and had busniness dealings with them, further he had freinds among christians.
Secondly, Prophets wife and his grand daughter were very succesfull business women that regularly had busniess dealing with men.
Further, hijab is mandatory in Islam, but a "hijab" is suposed to be clothes that do not reveal the "shape" of a female's body. There are clear instructions, loose clothes covering hair, arms and legs. So bikini is out of the question. Further like a lot of chritian friends I have here in North America, I too prefer women wearing decent clothes, maybe not hijab itself per say, but decent clothes nonetheless. Hijab is nothing but a spec on what cosntitutes decent clothes. And NO, burqa is not hijab, thats Arab tradition.
Before I end, I should let you know I am a muslim and find "Slams Islam" and "awesome" pretty offensive. I am sure, if we replace Islam with Christianity or Judasim or hindusim, people would have similar sentiments. - fleischner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"Islam" does not mean "peace." It means "submission."
- b166er01, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10/me not a muslim. but i do agree that the title this guy chose is very offensive...
- h0kiez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Citing the fact that "all religions have their misguided evangelists" is a weak way to deflect from the facts. Believe it or not, I (and I think most others) believe that the majority of muslims are peaceful. But the majority is not enough. If 10% of Americas (oh, say just over 30 million people) decided to become suicide bombers and blow up things around the world, the entire world would hate Americans regardless of how the other 90% felt...get it? The truth is that there are ENOUGH crazy muslims that have been bred to want nothing more from life than to be a martyr or kill jews at any cost that the entire group gets tarnished. Crazy Christians like Jerry Falwell get on TV and say stupid things about gays...he an ignorant bastard, but I hardly think saying that gays caused 9/11 equates to tens of millions of muslims actively seeking to kill or harm others. In the world today, there is NO equivalent to radical islam in other religions, so don't hide behind such a lame excuse.
- adaire, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Wow! Sometimes I wish I could digg twice
- fredtellum, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7To stand up and speak against the evil that will have her stoned to death at the first opportunity is true heroism and bravery beyond what I've seen in a very long time.
This takes the same kind of guts as the single guy blocking the tank in Tienanmen Square
This must be shared with as many as you can.
More information is here http://www.faithfreedom.org/gallery.htm - iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6She lives in L.A. (USA) - she should be fine.
- melmyfinger, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9@datastorageguy
What if someone broke into your home and threated to kill your wife? What if the only way to save your wife was to kill the guy? And what if you're homeless, your children are starving and the only way you can provide them with food is by stealing it?
When you throw in very strong values -- like the LOVE for your FAMILY -- suddenly the fine line of good and bad becomes blurry. -
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