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217 Comments
- jimbabb, on 10/12/2007, -11/+94I dugg it, but it's a Christian school. Who's surprised to find Christianity taught?
Did the interviewer later go to a Japanese restaurant and question the wisdom of serving sushi?
The parents are the ones who should be questioned as to why they sent their kid to a superstition school. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+77Dr. Ronald Sipus: There are kids who come to our school who do not believe Christianity. So..we say...that's OK. Make that statement, but now, right a position paper that proves your position is correct.
Brian Flemming: So the burden of proof is on the student who would say that the world operates according to scientific principles?
Dr. Ronald Sipus: (nods head yes) Mmm Hmm.
From the school's handbook:
"As per School Board Policy, Bible class is required for all students, for every semester. Although students are not required to profess Christianity, antagonism to the Gospel of Jesus Christ may result in removal from Village Christian Schools."
Kick the critical thinkers out before it spreads! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+74The full documentary of "The God Who Wasn't There" can be viewed here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7498241687701731240 - CanadianAviator, on 10/12/2007, -9/+49That's it, i quit.
- BlackSheepx, on 10/12/2007, -8/+49Just finished the documentary...I really I want to show my parents who just lectured me on how I need to go to church because it's "very important" during advenet season, and who also just decided to punish me for not going today [even though I was sick] by not letting me do anything on any following saturdays.
God damn it. I too, deny the holy spirit. - aeonoftime, on 10/12/2007, -31/+68Attacking a person’s belief is not a respectable debate or journalism method, and good debate requires that both parties have at least some level of understanding on the topic of discussion. You can ask hard hitting questions but to do it with some level of preparation on both sides. This video reeks of Michael Moore sensationalism than of good journalism or debate. This looks like entrapment if I saw it ever.
Why go to a Christian school if you don't believe? Why should you be blaming the school for this? I would say the onus falls upon the parents since they knew where they are sending the child.
I attending a Mormon university BYU. Often students of atheist beliefs demonstrate against the school and such. Even legally attacking the students and school. Come on I don't show up and your school and try to force you in to having prayers. Why come to a place to attack those who do. Brian from the video should not be talking with the principal instead maybe his parents should be the ones on the video. - IdiotOnLn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+41I went to a Catholic high school some years ago and it's very clear why parents send their children there. They get a much better education period. The catholics are not evangelical fundamentalists they may make you take a religion class once in a while but they do teach sound science and do not mislead or 'brainwash'. Lay off them.
- BadassCheese, on 10/12/2007, -10/+45People need to realize the difference between Fundamentalists, and Catholics. I go to a Catholic school and the people are reasonable and evolution is taught exclusively.
PS- I am an Atheist - spc2226, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Althought I am not a believer in religion or christianity for that matter, it does seem like the only purpose of this interview was to pick a fight with the principal. He believes what he believes and that's it. Sitting there and criticizing him for his beliefs and clearly putting words in his mouth is going to make the guy pissed. That's exactly what the interviewer wanted- to piss of the principal, he didn't want to make a point. I would be pissed too if I were the principal, whether we were talking about religion or fast food. Being rude and manipulative isn't the best way to go about conducting an interview.
- insyderloser, on 10/12/2007, -14/+39Why go after a school that the parents must pay the child to attend. The school has done nothing wrong (at least in this situation). The parents decided for the child to go to this school, knowing what the beliefs of the school were. So the interview should be presented towards the interviewer's own parents.
- Clbck, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30The difference is in being taught something as a fact, and taught as a theory.
The education I have received about evolution taught it as a theory. When I went to a Christian Private school (I asked to get out, and now I go to public school), God was FACT. The teaching system is overall different.
Safe sex is another matter entirely. There's no theory about it. You are safer when having sex with a condom.
I was taught a little bit of evolution in the Christian school I went to, too. However, they taught more like someone would teach Greek mythology. "This is false, but some people actually believe this!" In that school, at least, teaching their beliefs as a fact wasn't enough; they had to hammer into you that whatever anyone else said was wrong.
It could vary from school-to-school, though. - derek20cali, on 10/12/2007, -16/+41@blackmariah
Spoken like a true christian! - cwalk, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25I have attended Catholic schools all of my life, and if I could go back and change it, I wouldn't. My Catholic high school had mandatory religion classes, however, we often studied other religions and their associated beliefs. If Catholic school has taught me anything, it is that questioning religion is important part of human understanding. I completely agree with IdiotOnLn in that I received a much better education than if I attended a public school.
I am now Agnostic. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22I am an atheist and this is one of the worst arguments for atheism I ever heard.
This interviewer accomplished nothing with the exception of adding fuel for the principle against atheists. What a douche. - nerditup, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24@ jarland
"I'm quite saddened by watching your overall hatred toward Christians on digg. Now you post a story designed to do one thing, make a Christian school look bad for teaching Christian values."
This guy posted a video link on digg that questions a christian principal's beliefs, and wants to justify the reasoning for teaching others his faith. I don't sense any hatred towards any christians, just questions as to why anyone believes or should believe.
Hatred comes from humans, not from religion. - xipotec, on 10/12/2007, -11/+28There's a difference between indoctrinating children and serving sushi.
- kylebrothert, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19He agreed to an interview about educating children. Instead he was pestered with annoying criticism. He didn't like it, and walked out.
So the guy doesn't feel like dealing with a bitter former-student. Who cares? I might have done the same thing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Email to Jack Black on the "D" website:
Q: Do you believe in Satan?
A: I believe he is the greatest fictional super-villain of all time, also my favorite one as well.
I love that answer - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Hardly. It would appear the interviewer tried to set him up, and he rejected the false premise the interviewer presumably originally offered. The principal might have strong religious beliefs, but I have no doubt that he could have sat there all day and argued around in circles with the interviewer who isn't going to subscribe to the principal's religious beliefs anyway.
It appeared to me that the principal just wanted to cut his losses and not deal with being hassled by some twit who wasn't interested at all in seeking answers, but rather just trying to set him up to make him look bad. - bdrydyk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Just a note on the topic of Catholic education from another country.
My wife was raised in predominantly Catholic Colombia. She attended Catholic schools until the university, all of which taught science, including evolution, exceptionally well.
However, none of those schools would ever hold such a ridiculous policy of forcing students who don't believe in Christianity to 'prove' it. Education at religious institutions can be comparable to that of non religious ones, providing they don't bully students into acceptance of their superstitions. My wife is, and always was, an atheist, but never felt intimidated by her schooling. - bdrydyk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15@Spartan
Clbck is right, and it seems you missed his point.
Evolution is a scientific theory. It is supported by a huge range of evidence, it is accepted by 99.x% of biological scientists, and it is extremely unlikely that it will ever be replaced by a better theory. But, still, like all scientific explanations, it is not held as mere dogmatic 'fact.'
When scientists say things like "Evolution is fact," it is an attempt to make people who seem incapable of understanding the idea of a scientific theory understand the level of acceptance.
Again, Evolution is a theory not because it isn't 'proven,' but because we don't hold scientific explanations to be cold, unmovable facts. - aphexcoil, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10That has to be one of the worst "interviews" I have seen in a long time. That was not an interview -- that was an informal filmed one-way debate. Obviously the interviewer had his own agenda before beginning the interview.
The interviewer sounded like an arrogant self-righteous *****. I don't blame the guy for leaving the interview. He asked politely for the interviewer to turn the camera off to get some things resolved and the guy wouldn't do so.
The interviewer was a jackass. - dwxpub, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I love the diversity of posts in this thread - blackmariah insulting and wishing a poster dead (internet trolls ftw!), and then jarland wondering what Christian extremists have ever done...
That being said, I don't think the poster would have a problem with a Jesuit school, as they go much more towards instruction/pursuit of knowledge rather than dogma. Still Christian, but not - logicnazi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I think you need to distinguish the question of whether the school should be legally allowed to do what it does (yes it should) and whether it is right for it to do it. I mean suppose I set up a school that just lied to kids about history, science and mathematics. Say I decide to teach that Napoleon was actually a great magician who compelled allegiance with mind control. Or that martin Luther king became a vampire after he was killed and now controls Canada with a secret zombie army.
Surely teaching kids this sort of complete crap instead of real history, especially if I systematically crack down on any attempts to engage in critical thinking, is wrong. The consent of the parents is irrelevant to the moral issue. Parents may have the right to discourage their kids from reading but it would certainly be wrong for me to facilitate that choice. Similarly the fact that parents might have the legal right to send their kids to this sort of school doesn't eliminate the moral culpability of the people who run the school for what they teach.
Frankly I don't really see any difference between what they teach in a conservative religious school (and to a lesser degree any religious school) and my example about MLK's zombie army. It sounds reasonable to talk about Christ rising from the dead and his expected return just because we hear it so much but in reality it's no more reasonable than thinking that MLK is going to come back and liberate us with his Canadian zombie army so I don't see why it should get any more slack. (No diss on MLK just a random historical figure) - Daedalus17, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15This is so true. My parents sent me to a religious school in California and after comparing it to the education my friends received at public school I must say that I came away having a better understanding of almost every subject minus evolutionary biology. Laugh at these schools all you want but 9 out of 10 times the private schools(religious or not) will outperform the public schools in almost all academic subjects.
- Skab, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I liked this guys documentary for the most part, BUT at this point and at the end of the movie he's just being bitter towards the principal and what he went through in the school. Chances are I would be too. All in all good flick bad ending.
- KickyG, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12i'm not christian, but i still believe the values taught through christianity are good. even if kids go to a private school, and choose not to believe in god, the ethics and values that they pick up are better than anything they'll get in public school.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10They should be taught to think critically and determine for themselves what makes sense or not. Nonfalsifiable doctrines should not be taught, but should be studied. As an atheist, I think it would be wonderful if they had a class on major religions. It's an important part of sociology. People should understand why so many people are religious rather than take the typical arrogant atheist (or theist) tack.
- blakyce, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"Religion is a synonym for ignorance."
You have the right to that opinion, but I personally respect the rights of people to believe in religious systems. I am not a religious person at all but far too many people who I respect immensely have believed in religions for me to dismiss them with simplistic criticism. As much as religions have been the cause of many terrible things, they have provided so much to so so many and will continue to do so forever. - Chongo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm 'technically' Jewish and I really wish I would of been taught religion. I like the history of it all and it is fascinating stuff.
As a side note... I think that schools of this type should act like some of the colleges I've heard of. For example, De Paul university (in Chicago). They make you take I think 2 religion classes but it can be ANY religion. - bokchoi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I agree, if he wanted to make a point that held any merit he would let the principal speak and let the viewer decide whether the whole thing was BS or not, or add his own personal commentary in the next scene, not shoot it out during the interview.
- suntereo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is *private* school people... comon!
- slicedoranges, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I went to a private Christian school from grades K to 2 and I was at the top of my class... but I dropped down a lot ... A LOT... after transferring to a public school.
- RomeyRome, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15I'd still rather my kids go to a christian (or other) private school than out public schools...
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7i love how he says the burden of proof lies on the student to provide proof that what they teach isn't how the world works.
- barakatx2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Most atheists ask the same question, how do you know there is a god? If someone is going to ask me a question like that, then I request the same privilege. And my question would be, why are we here? Neither of us would be able to give a convincing answer and so neither of us would be right/wrong.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"I'm 'technically' Jewish and I really wish I would of been taught religion. I like the history of it all and it is fascinating stuff."
I went to a Jewish private school for 11 years and I enjoyed the religious classes until later years where they simply bored me. The class structure didn't change; I just started to see the classes for what they were - regurgitation. I was taught to study the torah but I was never convinced to love it.
I used to enjoy being Jewish but now it all seems nonsensical to me. As far as religions go Judaism is one of the more practical ones, but I really don't see why religion has to be a prerequisite to be a good human being. I've adopted the aspects I appreciate (do unto others, etc.) but I've discarded all the dogmatic self-perpetuating *****. Times change but religion doesn't.
Why read a dictionary cover to cover when you can use it for reference?
So to reply to the quote above, learn about religion by studying and talking to people. Don't expect an objective omniscient in a religious school. - Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Your point being? My guess would be that they would have a similar conversation.
- thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8THANK you, finally some sense..
this kid obviously is card stacking here, he is bitter about something in the past and tries to show the school in a certain light. the reality is that he needs to go bitch at his mommy and daddy for sending him there.
the christian school exists to teach an education + christianity (hence the term, christian school). whether or not he believes is up to him, but he must accept the school for what it is. - OpCzar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The superintended should have said that it is the wish of the parents to enforce those values because they are the ones who chose the school. If the parents wanted a balanced curriculum they would have gone somewhere else.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7+1
Better they may get taught some whacko theory about people's faith along with a proper education than not get a good education at all. - sheik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I agree. If you are going to go into a private school (specifically for Christianity), you can't be asking questions like the ones asked in this interview. Furthermore, it is the school's right (as a private institution) to say that religion class is required. If you don't want to take the class, transfer to another school... really, it's not that hard.
- samgab, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6The interviewer did seem rather biased and unobjective, in my opinion.
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I didn't like the guy. I am a fervent (foaming at the mouth even) aethist - and this guy seemed like an arrogant self interested prick.
Not a patch on Rchard Dawkins. - 3Den, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I am definately an atheist.
I don't profess that there is no god.
I profess that there is no evidence of any kind suggesting a god exists, and in the absence of such evidence, belife in god is about as viable as belief in the flying spaghetti monster.
As for "Why are we here..", this question presumes there needs to be a reason in the first place.
I am comfortable with the idea that there is no reason outside of cause and effect, and we are simply here, the universe unfolds as it does, with no greater purpose. - jsleno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Science doesn't necessarily answer the question "Why are we here?", but rather "How did we get here?"
When a scientific person asks how you know there is a god, he is looking for an answer involving procedure, testing, and verification of existence. However, when you ask that same person why we are here, I would think you are expecting an answer involving meaning and purpose for existence.
Religion has always been best at answering the "why" questions, and science is best at the "how" questions. The problem comes when Religion attempts to explain "How" things happened, and the explanation comes directly in conflict with science. And since science is way, WAY better at establishing the "How", religion has nowhere to run. And so, these religious people are forced to either take a stand and go down fighting, or concede that what they have believed all of their life is wrong. That's what I see happening. - vitaminbmeister, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9He was at a Christian school, not a public school. What makes it a Christian school? They teach Christianity. I think the principal handled himself very professionally. No digg.
- MacBigot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5If you don't like what the teach, forget what you learned and don't send you kids there. The film maker and the poster are just looking for affirmation of their unbelief. No Digg.
- m3mph1s, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7The principle did the right thing by ending by ending the interview. He didn't back out because he had no argument, he left because the former student quite obviously tricked him into having what can only be described as an interrogation.
All Christian schools are different, but coming from someone who went to one, I can say it is truly laughable that people say it's 'brainwashing'. My education was completely enriched by the environment of the Christian school I attended. Even if you do not leave the school with a strong Christian faith (and there are those that don't, you aren't "forced to believe") you can still gain a lot from the community, which is what I found in my years there.
It's completely the parents' decision where to send their children, and in most cases the kids are taught the same principles at home, so it's not like the teachers are tricking the parents into anything.
If you don't want your kids going to a Christian school, then don't send them there, but mocking the establishments that are doing no harm to any of you... just ridiculous. -
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