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- jazzman251, on 10/12/2007, -7/+108"I think that atheists can play basketball too..."
- Blizzardman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+79SPOILER ALERT
He says there's no santa =(. - DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34@gardnmi: The problem with Scientology is that it is a cult that preys upon weak-minded individuals and robs them of their money, and sometimes even their lives. It is a scam designed to make money and nothing else, through-and-through. The US needs to follow Germany in banning this sham of a "religion."
- Locke2053, on 10/12/2007, -9/+39"These two guys are equivalent in my book. Both trying to push their beliefs on others."
Are you kidding? They guy who runs the website doesn't threaten children with eternal hellfire unless they profess his beliefs. Christians do that to children all the time. How can you possibly think that is the same? - BobcatBowling, on 10/12/2007, -14/+43Gotta love some of these idiots in the media who think they are well educated!
- bruenig, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28There is nothing more obnoxious than a christian telling you he hopes you turn around or hope you figure it out after you just destroyed him in argument.
- Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25NOOOOOOO!!!
- TekeeTakShak, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27Anybody notice Flemming's eye motions throughout? It's almost as if he knew the Fox reporter was gonna be an asshat about it...
Oh wait... - sula21, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24@ ig33k010011
Here are just a handful of examples....
-"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12)
-"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)
-"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) - DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27I agree. I found Flemming to be very meek in this interview, he let the interviewer get too much say in the matter, and made little effort to correct what he was saying. He should have said the obvious... that these teens aren't tricked into denouncing Christianity, but rather that they have already formed these opinions of their own and he has merely made a website that allows them to put forth their opinion without being attacked by Christians as evil and wrong.
The interviewer is an idiot, but Flemming was weak and flaccid as well. - multiplegeorges, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Wow, that first opening question was great... "I think you're preying on young people and in the process you're turning them into very angry young people, why are you doing this?" I love the smooth jump from "I think" to "you are". Yay fair and balanced!
- Danyc, on 10/12/2007, -9/+25religion is a waste of time.
- 1337jared, on 10/12/2007, -15/+31The reporter is right when he says, "Religious people do great things around the world. They give up their lives..."
*EDIT*
Oh wait... Is he talking about the thousands of suicide bombers that give up their lives (killing men, women, and children who have ALL religion/non-religious beliefs)? - andrewman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18As a Christian I am not really bothered by this guy. We live in a free country and people are going to have diff ideas on how to live and thats ok. Fox News just trys to push crazy right wing wacko Christian into fear of everything from the Internet to Walmart. With the fear they build they keep these mouth breathing paste eaters returning for further news on what to stay away from and who to hate. In the words of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, "through away your television".
FOX NEWS keeping old people nerves for 10 years. - neave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"I'm an atheist and widely regarded as a huge *****. But at least I'm not in denial about it."
Respect. - Fragalishus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Last time I checked the internet wasn't knocking on people's doors trying to convert them to atheism. Nor was it forcing people to make videos of themselves denouncing the Holy Spirit. So the people taking the challenge are just weak minded people who are being "preyed upon" and brainwashed into doing it? Interesting...
- Xageroth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10... it's kind of odd to say that atheism is an ideology. How can you make an ideology out of not believing something? "God exists" is the assertion, not the other way around. If I'm wrong well then I guess I belong to an infinite number of ideologies, including an ideology where I don't believe I'm made of candy. (yum)
- onemanwaking, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17"Why are you so angry?" Kasich keeps yelling. LOL!
If anything, this being on FOX will only boost the attention the Blasphemy Challenge is getting. Negative or positive, it's reinforcing the fact that atheism and non-religious ideologies are on the rise. And that's a very, very good thing. - Jack000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@SIRBERUS
the videos seem to target christians only because of the christian majority of north america. Had we been muslim, most of the videos would be against islam.
"If you want to just go by numbers, there are more people helping people with connections to religious organizations than there are people blowing up people in connection to religious organizations."
If you go by numbers, there is a strong positive correlation between atheism and intelligence. Does that mean religion causes mass stupidity? You cannot equate correlation to causation. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist."
- Epicurus - xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Do you believe in Zeus, Baal, Pink Unicorns, the Elohims or Ra? Why should your god be the true one rather than any of the thousands of other choices presented to you? Since they can't all be true why have you chosen the one you have now? What if you made a mistake? What if in a thousand years from now people will read your beliefs in a history book and smile at the rudimentary myths that people clung on to?
After all gods came and went and we have no difficulty smiling at how ridiculous it was to believe that the sun was God's eye(egyptian mythology), that the red river was created by a giant bleeding snake (Mig-Mac in Atlantic Canada), that praying and offering sacrifices to a female statue would bring fertility to a family(greek mythology). What is it then that differentiates these myths from the beliefs we have today? Same themes: no more death(eternal life), justice (check Egyptian mythology, the idea of weighing your heart and it's deeds against a feather to judge your sins is actually much older than judaism or christianity), divine favors (mayans would have human sacrifices so the sun and earth would give more fruit).
If so many Gods were fakes what does that say for our track record as humans? Are we good at creating Gods from our imagination?
Don't ever say that it's just as unreasonable for anyone to say that God does not exist. The Gods of any religion are unrequired and way too reminiscent of older similar myths to gain any kind of favor from someone willing to question what other humans tell us to believe. - JavertHolmes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7There's nothing wrong with telling kids about their religious options, be it Christianity, [insert God(s)-based religions here], atheism, agnosticism, etc. Getting kids to say "I see you in hell" while ripping out pages from the bible is silly, though, as it does nothing to add to someone's intellectual argument and is basically flamebaiting.
Why not have the people posting the videos appear like they're more mentally sound, intelligent, everyday people instead of being emo-types ripping out bible pages? Why not have a group of teens who list their contributions to society and finish off explaining they're able to do these things without having a fear of going to hell as their incentive to do good? I think that would get people thinking more. - tipdog32, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Just live and let live, why do people feel the need to sell their beliefs to others? Is it so awful to just shut your mouth and be religious or not religious? This stuff causes wars, endless arguments and hate.
- MrYellow, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@ DyDx
What defines a cult in the eyes of society is simply a matter of numbers. All religions are cults until they are widely practiced. I'm in no way supporting the crap that is Scientology but if the United States is going to set a precedent by banning a belief structure then suddenly religious freedom no longer exists. Unless your part of the christian majority of course. - HalFTW, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is how it should be done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNjpfBc7Jmw (Richard Dawkins interview on BBC News)
- MixMastaKooz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"i gave up religion for lent"
You should have stopped right there...priceless. - Sturmur, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6My soul is prepared, Dr. Jones. How's yours?
- taskrok, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9pwnt
- DanielConley, on 10/12/2007, -16/+21I pity those people who cling onto their religions like children themselves...I think they fear death more than atheists.
- Renolc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@jexdawg
"Converting people to Christianity supposedly gives you a better chance of getting into Heaven."
That's is _hugely_ inaccurate. No true Christian really believes that.
According to the bible, the only thing that can get a person into heaven is having a personal relationship with Jesus.
Whether you choose to have that relationship, however, is up to you. - Chris63084, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I have to say that I agree with you generally.
It seems that many people speaking out against religion are those who where born in either extremely non religious homes, OR those who are born in oppressive homes, and when you look at it like that you can see that its either that they don't understand, OR they had it shoved down their throats, so of course it leaves a bad taste in their mouths. I watched Brian Flemming's movie (the god who wasn't there) and I feel that it was clearly one sided..the christians they interviewed were idiots off the street(fresh out of a billy graham gathering no less-not to say that theres anything wrong with that-), and the people he interviewed on his side of the argument where college professors and such.
But back to what i was saying, these people who grew up in extremes are the ones who don't really understand that for someone who chooses this, they do it for a reason, and its the best thing in their life. Bottom line, religion isn't bad, poor parenting is bad. Poor teaching is bad. I don't believe Brian Flemming is doing t his out of the goodness of his heart either...he's not liberating people..he clearly has an agenda. - david76, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12Flemming explains himself in a very level headed way. The host replies...
"WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ABOUT THIS?!" - Tasich
That said, I think Flemming goes a bit too far in saying that it's "psychological torture." Maybe if you watch those poor kids in Jesus Camp, it is, but by and large, I don't think so. Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones to be raised in a family where religion wasn't a component of my daily life. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+23I believe you should be able to believe in anything you want too without being attacked because of your views, and yes as much as I hate them this applies to Scientology too.
- ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Is that "reporter" from FOX for real? Do you clone these people from some Spanish Inquisition DNA samples in the US?
- jexdawg, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9"Fair and balanced... You decide"
....
HAHAHAHAHAHA - hel331, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8As a born again Christian, i was offended to hear Mr. Flemming say that we are "tortured" into believing this religion. I (along with ALL other BORN AGAIN (meaning you have confessed Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior) chose this religion on my own) and i will gladly say that it was the BEST decision i've ever made. i love getting up every morning knowing that my Lord will always be there for me and that i am here on earth with a purpose... not just living everyday for nothing. IF (and i conpletely believe this isnt the case) there was no God, then what exactly do you have to lose by taking the risk of leading a life with positive morals? I'm not going to put anyone down because even though i might not agree with your beliefs i'll still love you just as God does!
- andrewman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I love how he says they are preying on young people, like thats any better then preying on stupid old right wing freeks.
- Sgurdcrimp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"I was playing basketball with 15 kids today run by Christians"
- SPNKrPunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The worry that Flemming is raising in his psychological torture complaint is one of spirit. Central to his "psychological torture" claim is the idea that you cannot give someone a belief system and attach negative consequences as a reason for a person believing. That is not *actual* belief. Psychological torture is perhaps too strong a term for it, but the principle is sound. If a person opts to believe in God and one of the many monotheistic religions because of a fear of consequences, then they are deluding themselves. You could take it a step further and say that those converted based on the threat of hellfire will simply go through the motions and never actually accept the religion, believing that they can skimp by on their actions.
Christianity, as I understand it, doesn't work that way. You have to actually believe what you profess. In sum, Flemming's argument is that the youths who take the challenge have not accepted God because they were presented with the punitive, believe or burn in hell argument, and that is the wrong way to go about it.
Now, if one accepts all that, then there really is no decision at all. You either believe or don't believe. - gerrylazlo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I know this is a repeat comment, but it needs to be repeated:
"WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY ABOUT THIS!"
Could that have been any more perfect? - jthen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3So you don't believe parents should indoctrinate their children, then?
- jexdawg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"why do people feel the need to sell their beliefs to others?"
Converting people to Christianity supposedly gives you a better chance of getting into Heaven. Ultimately, saving people is all about making yourself look good, so that when judgment day comes, you make it through the pearly gates.
At it's most basic form, religion (and I'm speaking mostly of Christianity since it has the most impact on my life), is just a selfish way to insure yourself. "If I save this guy, I'm good." as opposed to "I want to save this guy because HE needs to be saved."
Am I saying atheists aren't selfish? Hell no, I'm an atheist and widely regarded as a huge *****. But at least I'm not in denial about it. - bardamu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This video about says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCODIhAXbQM&mode=related&search=
Any questions? - bigstinky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Kasich sure does get heated. It seems to me Brian handled himself much more maturely than his interviewer.
Why do ultra religious types get so angry when others challenge their beliefs?
I actually had a born-again tell me she could "sin" more than me, and still make it to heaven, but I would burn in a pit of fire and brimstone should I choose not to except her Lord Jesus as Saviour. Nice religion. - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You guys are total tards. This is a question of Nature vs. Nurture. You mean to tell me, had you been born in the heart of Islam, you would have STILL chosen the way of Christianity? Or had you been born in a Jewish family that you would not have been a Jew?
You chose Christianity because that was what you knew. You don't eat grasshoppers either, but had you been born in Africa there is a good chance you would. You can't say what you would or wouldn't do had you been born under different circumstances.
To take this a bit further, you are telling me that all the people who are Jewish or Islamic or Muslim or Buddhist are all damned to YOUR hell because they do not worship your one, true God? You mean your God has put these people in a predicament where they are influenced almost 110% to go the wrong way?
I am glad you found your God. I am glad that the stories your parents taught you made an impact on your life. I am glad that you have a place to focus your energies into something you feel it right. But don't think for one second that this was 100% your choice. You were placed into a circumstance that guided your decisions. Your outcome wasn't guaranteed, but one could say your coarse was at least set at a young age. You say that people who denounce God either come from highly religious or highly non-religious homes, and elude to this being an influence for their choice, but you don't think that your upbringing could have effected yours. - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4He totally has a point. Its Christians that have a problem with the word *****, *****, *****, etc, etc on TV, not me. I am a parent, but these are merely words. And sex? Hell, maybe we need more sex movies and fewer war movies. I mean, Jesus Christ their boobies, not nuclear bombs that will explode when you look at them too long.
You say "We don't push our religion", but everywhere I turn I see your taint on EVERYTHING. I can't buy beer on Sunday. Why? I mean, Jesus is getting trashed at the last supper, but I can't have a cold one while I watch football in my own home.
There is no live and let live, that's for sure. Tell that to my gay friend who has been with in the same monogamous relationship for 30 years, but can't share any of the simple benefits we as married heterosexuals get like shared property, widows status, social security benefits, shared health plans. Its not fair at all, and frankly I am getting very sick of it all. - Weizhong, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@ Locke2053
"Are you kidding? They guy who runs the website doesn't threaten children with eternal hellfire unless they profess his beliefs. Christians do that to children all the time. How can you possibly think that is the same?"
I think they wait a while before they lay down the heavy stuff like hellfire, kinda of like when you were a kid and the Indians and the Pilgrims got together and had a great friendly feast, then when you get to the AP Classes or College it was nothing but broken treaties, infested blankets, raping, pillaging & stealing. - shibbzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2maybe HE is not, but the ground work he set in place is being used to target it. you either have to be for or against something, there is no neutral. by him smiling when he sees people tearing down Christians obviously means he not opposed to the idea (i.e. he's for it).
i still am having a problem understanding how all of those people i know whos lives were changed by being born again in Christ are really being tortured...? - OneAndOnlySnob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2People who say atheism is a religion annoy me.
How can atheism be a religion when I, and other atheists, take nothing on faith? Yes, there may be a god, but there's not a single quantifiable trace of evidence anywhere that suggests that there is, and that he/she cares about our lives or what we think. This lack of evidence doesn't prove that there is no god, but it does prove that god (if there is one) is irrelevant to our lives. Show me some evidence and I'll change my mind. And don't point to the Bible, because I'm quite familiar with it. It doesn't make much sense if you actually read it.
Combine god's irrelevance to our lives with an awareness of the divisive nature of religion and its divisive political movements and its war on science education in our country, and you start wishing people would come to their senses.
This is why people call themselves atheists. It's NOT because they have faith that there is no god. It's a reaction to religious nonsense. - sikosmurf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You're right. I'm sure he went right to Fox news and asked for an interview.
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