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465 Comments
- motafett, on 04/28/2008, -17/+288This is just sad. This sounds like a story from the 1800's! A professional, and obviously qualified soldier, denied his promotion because he doesn't have an invisible friend/the right invisible friend.
America should honor, and be proud of ALL the troops brave enough to be there. - mrhedges, on 04/28/2008, -2/+214I believe in Plexiglas too! All hail Plexiglas!
- xerigen, on 04/28/2008, -4/+162"No, but I believe in plexiglass." Hilarious!
- LeeSoong, on 04/28/2008, -9/+165I would follow the rational sergeant into combat more readily than follow someone who expects the sky gods to protect me.
Give me air support, body armor, and a rational plan, not prayer beads and a pat on the back. - zyklon, on 04/28/2008, -10/+134As an Atheist American soldier myself, I know of the discrimination. It's rampant, and my (And fellow soldiers) leadership is always resentful toward how rabid I am for my beliefs. It only fuels my fire.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9861/rarebz7.jp ... (Photo of my tags sans-social security number) - inactive, on 04/28/2008, -21/+144It's because of the religious Christians that we're even in war to begin with. When Bu$h pulled the "God card" on America and told everyone that God told him to go to war he gained tons of blinded support for pre-emptive strike.
- ReidFleming, on 04/28/2008, -7/+106The most depressing thing is that religious people would oftentimes rather you believe in the wrong god than no god. My career field in the USAF had quite a few atheists so it wasn't too bad. At one point, we were the majority in the office.
- inactive, on 04/28/2008, -6/+84Guys, this is what the war is about. Don't you remember?
"My invisible man can beat up your invisible man!" - Rikkochet, on 04/28/2008, -1/+65May its brittle, translucent appendage touch us all!
- inactive, on 04/28/2008, -1/+59Seriously. The guy makes a once-in-a-lifetime crack like that and then gets this kind of treatment?
- foooey, on 04/28/2008, -0/+49no, but you can definitely sell it
- disgruntled, on 04/28/2008, -2/+47...to have beliefs that don't offend you?
didn't know you could buy belief. - cl2yp71c, on 04/28/2008, -6/+50"having faith would make him a better leader."
No, having blind faith would make him a better follower of the actual 'leader' at the top of the ladder. - Tryptomine, on 04/28/2008, -1/+43...By a government which is sworn to not endorse any religion.
- nobhdy, on 04/28/2008, -2/+43Sorry for the poor quality, but that can't be helped at the moment.
My dog-tags: (navy. It says "NORELPREF" for no religious preference)
http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dogtagsbl ...
I too am an atheist who serves our country and i feel some of the pain Spc. Hall feels in voicing his beliefs. Though not in immediate threat, I am close to those who can die at any minute, and its a lonely thought that when a person dies, he simply stops existing. I can see why people have faith, but i just can't bring myself to believe something i can't prove. Though not as severe as Spc. Halls situation, i have been made fun of, called names, and shunned because of what i think. Good on him for bringing this to the worlds attention. - inactive, on 04/28/2008, -7/+47His commander sounds like a ***** douche. Great comeback! Why does anyone have to believe in the invisible man? That is insanity. The reason I didn't join the military is because I am an Atheist, and don't like the idea of killing people. After all, you only get one shot at life. :)
- disgruntled, on 04/28/2008, -3/+43i dont think that was the point. i think the point was GWB is no better than the 'fanatical Muslims'
- copypastry, on 04/28/2008, -1/+39Atheist dogtags ftw
- disgruntled, on 04/28/2008, -2/+39thats a pretty strong argument and you made some great points. oh wait -no it wasn't and you didn't
i would also prefer to take orders from a rational person instead of someone who would base not only their life but everyone else in the worlds life around a fairy tale. - flawedprefect, on 04/28/2008, -4/+41Marx was wrong - Opiate was too tame a word to describe religion... more like the methamphetamine of the masses.
- inactive, on 04/28/2008, -0/+35Yeah, actually. He did. It was all over the news. Where the hell were you?
I'll tell you where you obviously WEREN'T. You weren't at church praying to God like a red blooded American. - lohphat, on 04/28/2008, -1/+34http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_i ...
"No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification of any Office or public Trust under the United States."
I hope he cleans house. - drato, on 04/28/2008, -1/+33Yes, it would have been a terrible shame for us to have skipped the whole dark ages thing
- RAEP, on 04/28/2008, -0/+32First United Church of Plexiglass
- inactive, on 04/28/2008, -9/+39Problem is religious beliefs poison and undermine our culture.
- zyklon, on 04/28/2008, -0/+27That's just the people you know, I guess. Most people think that military service requires religious servitude as well. When I was asked by my reception drill sergeant way back at basic training, they asked me what I wanted on my tags as my religion. I asked for Jedi, but she made me push for like 30 minutes and got me serious real fast.
- wipis, on 04/28/2008, -1/+27The only thing in the sky I would expect to protect me is Blackhawks and Apaches.
- zyklon, on 04/28/2008, -2/+28I don't force my beliefs down throats, like most RP fanboys/girls. I live and let live, and if someone wants to have a debate with me, I debate. While I'm not aggressive/assertive about my beliefs, I'm very challenging and demonstrate my knowledge. I'm not a casual, but I'm not a militant at the same time.
- notoneofus, on 04/28/2008, -0/+25My "NO REL PREF" tags got me a ***** of harassment in the Army. The worst was during basic training, though, in South Carolina. Though I wanted to spend my Sunday mornings writing or reading, instead of listening to religious nonsense, I was made to do extra work instead.
A lot of guys clearly didn't believe and went to religious services just so they could interact with girls or get out of work. - disgruntled, on 04/28/2008, -3/+27Plexiglass has surely been touched by his noodly appendage
- m0tbaillie, on 04/28/2008, -4/+27Yep, they asked us to come to Iraq and blow their ***** up, kill their families, destroy their country and further exacerbate the already delicate religious/ethnic tensions in their country.
- bosssmiley, on 04/28/2008, -0/+23Plexiglass: it shattered for our sins.
- zyklon, on 04/28/2008, -1/+23You're an idiot. The "under God" bit was added by Eisenhower in 1953 (If my memory serves me correctly), and I learned that in FOURTH GRADE CIVICS. While you didn't get a proper education, I did. Thanks for your understanding.
- crump199, on 04/28/2008, -8/+30So right, all soldiers brainless losers who, if they weren't in the military, would be robbing convenience stores and beating up old ladies for their pocket change.
You poor, poor, retarded little monkey. What color is the sky in your world? - active1x0, on 04/28/2008, -14/+35"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."
I think far too many Atheists would better serve themselves if they would take a hint from SPC Hall. Really. - inactive, on 04/28/2008, -3/+24Furthermore, if you worship a God that sends people to hell for disbelief, you are an unethical person.
- Spijker, on 04/28/2008, -1/+21This guy knows what he is talking about.
Religion has no place in the Military, the government, or in foreign policy.
It's a personal issue, not to be confused with morals or ethics. - brufleth, on 04/28/2008, -0/+20"A lot of guys clearly didn't believe and went to religious services just so they could interact with girls or get out of work."
This is actually why a lot of people go to religious services in general, not just in the military. - inactive, on 04/28/2008, -1/+21There is a huge problem in America and it has to with the fact that as a nation such a large proportion of the country embraces fanatical ideals be it one or another political party or religion or the lack of religion ect. It makes it almost impossible for this country actually engage in any cohesive national debate about the nation's future. As this problem grows it begs a question of how viable the USA is as a single cohesive nation state.
(sorry about any grammer errors English is not my primary lanaguage.) - SymbolicChaos, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1913:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the plexiglass: and they worshipped the plexiglass, saying, Who is like unto the plexiglass; who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto the plexiglass a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto the plexiglass to continue forty and two months.
Wait, random revelation (no pun intended). Is this where Douglas Adams got 42 from???? - superspud, on 04/28/2008, -0/+19Have you ever seen an 'X diggs in Y time' comment been dugg up? Ever?
- TobiasParker, on 04/28/2008, -0/+19No...everyone should have morals. Whether you have morals yourself or need someone else to tell you what morals you should have is the real division.
- BetterOffEd, on 04/28/2008, -0/+18You don't have to.
- pintomp3, on 04/28/2008, -2/+20no wonder this administration don't bother giving them proper armor. they just tell them to pray.
- IPublius, on 04/28/2008, -4/+21I would like to say that there is no way to tell from the article that he is in fact qualified to be a SGT. He doesn't actually say how he is being blocked. It is not like at a regular job where your superior or two levels up decides that you need to be promoted or not. In the Army, you have to be in for a certain amount of time, be in rank for a certain amount of time, go before a board to determine readiness made up usually of the battalion sergeant major, and four of the company 1st sergeants. They pass you or not and give you a certain amount of points as your rating for passing the board.
It used to be that after that you had to go to the SGT training course, but I believe the Army has dropped that stipulation and you can now be promoted after the board.
After the board, a soldier gathers all of his qualifications that are worth points (things like schooling, in and out of the military - they count separately -, weapons qual, PT score, board points, Company Commander's points from his/her recommendation (like the board), and any awards they may have) and takes them to the promotions division of their major unit command (usually Division level). After their points are turned in, they become active in 60 days. Whenever after that the points list is put out and their points are higher than the cutoff, they are promoted.
Long post, but all this to say that except for the commander's recommendation and the board, their is no point at which his chain can discriminate to keep him from being promoted unless the Army is holding up all promotions in his field for anyone with less points than he in order to punish him (effectively impossible). I would like to hear his specific allegation as to who exactly (company or battalion) is holding up his promotion before I pass judgment. he may not be ready to be promoted. I blocked a few in my time due to their being unfit. I also knew many SPCs who were more than qualified, but the Army was over quota in their field for SGTs, so they didn't get promoted.
The fact that he is in charge of other soldiers speaks heavily against his accusation of being held back. If they were serious about not promoting him, they would have given that slot to another. Command experience as a SPC is a pretty plumb assignment, not an insult. I am not attacking either his professionalism or his competence, I am simply saying there is not enough info given to realistically judge this situation. The Army is complex in many ways and details will make or break a story like this. It is possible everything he says is true, it is also possible that he is airing personal grievances behind a shield of being attacked for his beliefs. - loganm10, on 04/28/2008, -6/+23ya Atheists shouldn't try to push their beliefs, or lack of them, on others, just like religious folk shouldn't push their beliefs on others if they don't want to hear it. To each their own
- zyklon, on 04/28/2008, -2/+18You know, it's never too late to kill yourself. I suggest you do and stop wasting my air.
- notoneofus, on 04/28/2008, -0/+16That's like saying you don't believe in Christianity. I don't believe in god, but I'm not stupid enough to say Christianity doesn't exist.
- BlackSheepx, on 04/28/2008, -4/+20Yay for generalizations.
Shut the ***** up, uziko. - disgruntled, on 04/28/2008, -2/+18I do believe in you. because unlike any religion, i can prove that you are real.
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