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106 Comments
- fairandtrue, on 06/24/2009, -3/+47As some parents figured it, their children had been made high-tech guinea pigs.
"Our children are not inventory," the Cantralls said in a letter to the district. They said the monitoring program smacked of Big Brother.
- hurray for these parents!
- get up stand up, stand up for your rights - wjappe, on 06/25/2009, -2/+32This strongly reminds me of the National ID and similar actions of the US government that we should be closely watched and accounted for just in case we are somehow rebellious to their interests and the least I do not wish to be treated like cattle or mere inventory of the US government to be culled at will.
- hpodity, on 06/26/2009, -2/+251. Someone needs to learn to format, I want to read in paragraph form not sentence. EDIT: I realize the irony in that I myself have presented this in sentence form, it would have been paragraph but I didn't feel like writing that much
2. Brave New World was written by Aldous Huxley and has no connection to big brother other than the the two books "Brave New World" and "1984" are considered to be two polarizing views of dystopian futures and are associated in only that sense, the title does not fit.
3. As long as this is only used for keeping attendance it makes perfect sense, as long as the system is not abused I see nothing wrong with this idea.
4. RFID ranks just below custard on the Things-that-are-likely-to-kill-you O meter
5. Going back to point #2, Brave new world has nothing to do with RFID or surveillance, that was 1984, the whole idea of Brave new world was that humankind was enslaved without the need for constant surveillance because we were enslaved by the things that we most adored
6. Unrelated, why does the comment box on digg hate chrome so much? It's jumping around like a retarded wallaby on Ritalin - Nicholutso, on 06/25/2009, -2/+17"they spelled our name right and spread it across the country."
What a prick! Someone should bluetooth snipe this guy and crank call everone in his phone to teach him a lesson about secure formats and privacy. - ryrocker, on 06/26/2009, -0/+15say what you will about the religious...
but their fear for "the mark of the beast" is going to be useful in fighting off these rfid chips
the enemy of my enemy is my friend
=] - phosphor112, on 06/26/2009, -0/+13I have never seen my name on a receipt. Anyway, Credit Cards need to track info so it'll know who to charge the costs too, but if you have a radio transmitter on you so any body with a receiver (or w/e) comes up and tells you your name, there is nothing private about life anymore.
- gramathy, on 06/26/2009, -2/+13badges badges badges badges badges badges badges badges badges badges badges badges
SCHOOL ROOM SCHOOL ROOM
badges badges badges... - ranon78, on 06/26/2009, -0/+10A big problem with the RFID badges is in the implentation.
A student can just give his badge to another student and be marked present even though he is not in the class. - Gesad, on 06/26/2009, -2/+12The problem with this is that the children will get use to it, then they become teenagers and adults who are use to being tracked.
1984
A Brave New World
Gattaca
Those kinds of futures wont happen over night, they will creep in over generations, one aspect at a time, so slowly no-one will notice or care.
Then one day people will look around and realize that their free society has become their prison.
Dramatic? - yes, but also true.
@ hpodityhpodity
"Going back to point #2, Brave new world has nothing to do with RFID or surveillance, that was 1984, the whole idea of Brave new world was that humankind was enslaved without the need for constant surveillance because we were enslaved by the things that we most adored"
People always say this, but iI don't agree. They may not share the same tech but they are both about the control of populations, loss of identity, and freedom.
You can always argue that A Brave New World was the evolution of 1984 , to the pont that the people survieled themselves. Things always start some where. - zephc, on 06/26/2009, -4/+12Of course you have a choice - you don't have to work there.
- copypastry, on 06/25/2009, -0/+8Cantrall can think what he wants, but we're getting another shipment of Jasons on Friday.
- IgorUnchained, on 06/26/2009, -1/+9The cards for your kids are cool...the State should definitely track your children for you!
That said, I dont yet know how I feel about Saudi Arabia trying to patent a killer chip to be implanted in people (patent denied in Germany).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmZmrVLdaTY (or google if you dont believe it).
We dont have flying-bubble topped-cars or jetpacks yet, but it is heartening to know that our government is perfecting the technology to trace us all and possibly kill us or render us vegetables at the touch of a button. - dsanonline, on 06/26/2009, -0/+8I agree with the one comment in the article that this indoctrinating our kids with the idea of a 'surveillance society being a good thing.' --- As a parent, I will never allow my child to wear one of these. No, not ever.
- Trumpetman4eva, on 06/26/2009, -2/+10"information safely stored in school computers." Yeah, because hackers don't exist.
/s - sokalo, on 06/26/2009, -0/+7It's like every citizen of the USA WANTS to be dehumanized and mistreated and to be watched upon, what gives? this is wrong in EVERY LEVEL.
- soupdawg30, on 06/26/2009, -2/+9I don't really like the whole idea but I find the "health threats" laughable.
- phosphor112, on 06/26/2009, -0/+7It's like playing Metal Gear Solid all over again.
- curtisag, on 06/26/2009, -0/+7It's already hard enough being a kid. These schools need to stfu already with their strict *****. I listen to the stories my dad tells about his high school days and I can tell kids had a lot more fun. Cutting class occasionally is a hallmark of being a rebellious teenager. They have kids wound up so tight these days, is it any wonder they snap occasionally? Yeah, you're primarily there to learn, but that's not everything, and it shouldn't be like a high security prison system.
- curtisag, on 06/26/2009, -1/+8The kids don't have a choice, that's the issue here. You knew what you were signing up for when you took the job and accepted the restrictions and security measures. And that's fine. But the minute someone doesn't give you a choice, that's a slippery slope and a violation of your rights.
- TrevorBradley, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6I was looking to post something along the lines of 2 and 5 myself..
If this really were Brave New World, they'd be giving the children drugs, sleep hypno-suggestion, and encouraging homosexual playtime. And they'd LIKE it. - IgorUnchained, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6To say nothing of the "Cold Dead Hands" and Mountain Man Militia folks protecting your 2nd Amendment rights. The "God Hates Fags" and KKK clowns who protect our First Amendment Rights. The States Rights Conservatives who are going to facilitate Gay Marriage and Legalized Marijuana before protesting liberals ever do.
The list goes on.
I dont tolerate other people's ridiculous religions....I protect them with fire. That is the same First Amendment that has my right to Free Speech, Free Press, and Free Assembly. - mah2cent, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6If you think this is bad and if you thought RealID was a thing of the past, think again. It has been reserected in the name of PassID and is even worse. Read:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/akers/akers110.html - Thorthewhore, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6At my high school you need an ID card not only to get into the school, but to unlock the bathrooms. Ridiculous.
- sturmgiest, on 06/26/2009, -0/+5Finally a comment from a sane person. Permanent RFID for people has privacy issues, RFID on student IDs to track attendance does not. Its a simple system that really has no security issues unless the backend network of the school is compromised anyways.
- manjas8, on 06/26/2009, -1/+6I'd pull my kid out of that damn school if they kept the program.
- Feraldr00d, on 06/26/2009, -1/+6"Imagine, a few months later, with no RFID system, a kid goes missing.
"Why didn't you keep better track of our children?" scream the parents.
"We tried, but you're all a bunch of morons.""
The flaw:
RFID was only used to track attendance through the classroom door. It does nothing to stop a kid from wandering off school grounds. I severely doubt this was used to track a child's movements throughout the school. RFID does NOT, under ANY circumstance, relieve the school of it's innate responsibility to actively attempt to keep children on school grounds once they show up.
My problem with this is simple:
The children were not given a choice, a "slippery slope and violation of human rights". - IgorUnchained, on 06/26/2009, -0/+52 and 5 are exactly what I was thinking
6....it does it on Firefox also. - SemiSarcastic, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4NANOMACHINES!?
- adaire, on 06/26/2009, -5/+9Hello! The school was already 'tracking' the students. It's called an attendance roll. These are kids we are talking about. Keeping track of them is the school's job.
Imagine, a few months later, with no RFID system, a kid goes missing.
"Why didn't you keep better track of our children?" scream the parents.
"We tried, but you're all a bunch of morons." - dimmak, on 06/26/2009, -1/+5bigBrother = 1984++
- Miadlo, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4Makes you wonder why they just didn't use magnetic stripe cards with readers at the doors seems it would have served the same purpose get kids in quickly and accurately without fear of their information being read passively. RFID should not be used as a quick fix for these types of things its too vulnerable.
- ismhmr, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4I see allot of people saying, whats the big deal? This is only for attendance. But thats the problem.. First they said, hey, we are going to chip your passports, then they said, hey, we are going to chip your pets and farm animals for safety or in case they get lost.. Next is, hey, we are going to chip your kids, you know, to keep them safe.
This is incremintalism... If you read the plans for these RFID chips, the powers that be want to chip the entire population, first with cards, then internally, and all of your information will be on these, bank account information, medical history, etc. All linked up to a central computer, just like the one at the school.
Benjamin Franklin said " People willing to give up a little freedom for security deserve none, and will loose both." Just something to think about, and to research for yourself.
- curtisag, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4I had the same thought. It's amusing how you find allies in the least likely spots imaginable sometimes.
- 0tis, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4(Re #6: It does that to me on Firefox sometimes when it's in a bad mood. Nice image.)
7. Love the metaphors. "Just a slab of sirloin in the meat section, fruit in the produce section"... "human guinea pigs". Meat, fruit and guinea pigs? Either these are some ugly children or this guy needs to make his mind up.
8. People are not going to stalk children. When they're not in school, they don't have to wear the damn tags. When they are in school, the stalker already knows where they are.,, - Gusbob, on 06/26/2009, -1/+5Sigh...It is not the tools that are bad, its when people abuse their power (i.e. surveillance). Just because the government is given those tools doesn't mean they will abuse it. Those that claim the acquisition of these powers is a slippery slope obviously has never debated before.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery- ...
And may I say everyday more and more diggers seem to claim this logical fallacy as a valid argument - cloudberries, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3It's a sneak(y way of trampling on our freedoms while masquerading as a means of our protection) oh no, it's a sneak(y way of trampling on our freedoms while masquerading as a means of our protection)!
- nerddtvg, on 06/26/2009, -1/+4When you work in a datacenter or other secure buildings you're required to have some form of identification and access card. My entire building and those around us are all RFID based. And while I might be able to get another job at a similar company in the area, the security measures would still be the same. So I guess I don't have to work there, but I don't think it would matter if I hoped to stay with my career.
- anon775, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3I don't get why organizations are so compelled to use such an insecure technology. Just because it exists, doesn't mean you have to use it. The best option at this point is to stay away from RFID. The more people that acknowledge the flaws in the technology and refuse to use it, the sooner something more secure will be available.
I don't agree with this type of monitoring, but if it's is being forced upon us, at least make it something that takes a little more effort to retrieve information from than just a $40 RFID reader and very limited knowledge. - Lunarsight, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3I think, if I were one of the students, what would annoy me more than the RFID technology itself is being forced to wear a big, goofy badge around my neck with my name and picture on it. I personally would have gotten sick of it and stuffed it in a pocket.
As far as the RFID technology itself goes, I find this kind of ironic. They have an issue with a device used to derive attendance-based data due to 'stalker-bait' concerns, yet most kids voluntarily give up information which would be much more useful to stalkers. Some will tweet about their every mundane activity and blog about the most initimate details of their life, posting it online for all to see.
I do agree with a previous poster, though: Many teenagers are too tech-savvy nowadays for this to work. They'll easily find a way to 'trick' this attendance system into thinking they're in class when they're in fact miles away. - jonman364, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3That line was just pointing out that anyone reading the data off the chip is NOT getting the students name, sex, address, birthday, ssn, mothers maiden name, shoe size, inseam, heart rate, favorite color...
- dglad, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3Health concerns? No. RFID chips simply act as an antenna, responding to an incoming radio signal by generating a weak (unless it's amplified, which these ones weren't) but readable signal. These students would be exposed to much more radio frequency energy from other sources, such as cell phones and...well, radio stations. So the health thing is a red herring.
OTOH, the privacy aspect? Yeah. Big concern. Anyone with an RFID scanner could read these chips. They'd get a 15 digit number which, in itself, has no additional information (unless the school's database is compromised). But it's a unique 15 digit number that can be used to track an individual (actually, it tracks the badge). Is that okay? Are there any circumstances under which tracking one of these badges could be used for problematic purposes? I can think of a few. For example, RFID scanners could be installed in vending machines to determine which products are being ordered by which kids. Stores near the school could install "arphid" scanners to determine when a kid comes into their store and what they purchase. Kids can fiddle with the chips in badges, making the whole attendance system unreliable. Now, I don't know that this school even has vending machines, but the potential exists. Now, for those who would decry this as "slippery slope" thinking, the counter argument--there's no evidence that this will happen, so don't worry about it--has a "blinkered" attitude to it. If we're going to introduce technologies like this, to trace human beings, we need to ensure we think all this stuff through. That doesn't appear to have happened here. This was a well-intentioned, but poorly conceived idea that was never subjected to public scrutiny and debate before being implemented. That's ALWAYS going to a problem.
be a - Kaegro, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3well, it kinda is.
- Impius, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3you know what works really well on an RFID chip... a hammer.
- Nedd8, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3The Surveillance Society is like a steel cage being slowly lowered over all our heads. I have been wondering when (or if) the American people will unhook their minds from their TV's long enough to recognize this threat and begin to push back. It's encouraging to see these signs of life.
- nerddtvg, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3I guess I should also explain this before I go to bed for the night and forget to say it in the morning:
I can not speak for this specific system, but in general RFID tags generally are not customized to specific individuals. Normally they are just numeric IDs that are unique to a specific location. These are stored in a database and populated with user information. Whether this be school children or lost pets, the concept is the same. This is because to have each RFID tag send out a full range of information takes a lot of customization and raises costs a lot. Plus, if one of these was to be lost, that there would be a massive breach of privacy. However someone just getting a numeric value without access to the appropriate database wouldn't be able to do much.
Of course there are plenty of bad examples here. One is a driver's license number which could get someone a lot of information or at least open a lot of doors into other pathways into your life.
However, concerns are not really over the database here but the information stored on the RFID chip and that is being transmitted. Again, I can't speak for this company's system, but I'm quite positive it's nothing more than a large number. And any privacy concerns should be directed at the database in use, which should be worthy of concern, but not for this application. All schools have databases of student information and they have existed long before this technology came out. - rmxz, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3Can third party systems also listen in on those same RFID chips? I'm not sure I'd like the idea of Pepsi, Coke, Marlborough, that ascii Bear, and all the other advertisers tracking kids to better target their ads.
- Swivelstick, on 06/26/2009, -0/+2Buried by the press which in turn created panic and outrage toward an "enemy" still not understood by the majority of the populace.
- MacEnvy, on 06/26/2009, -0/+2It's such a small step from "reasonably concerned" to "crazytown". You, my friend, have taken that step.
- Spend, on 06/26/2009, -0/+2I just remember when I was a kid, I loved sneaking around school and being a little terrorist. The avenues for rambunctiousness are slowly closing with the introduction of techs like this. In my opinion, they should just let kids be kids and get in trouble a bit; that's half the fun of being a kid, ***** around without consequences.
- anon775, on 06/26/2009, -2/+4I think the people who thought that Harry Potter's scar was "the mark of the beast", should have a death match with these people so that we can know which group was telling the truth. The liars will perish in a sea of fire!
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